This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
shos
shos
Survivor
shos
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 17862 Joined: November 28, 2011
Post
Post #25 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:56 am
Post
by shos » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:56 am
Thanks for the input. If a programmed script can find out whose chances are best, and what town strat is best, it'll be awesome.
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #26 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:51 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:51 am
Ok I wrote a program for this and am currently in the process of running it 500 times.
If anyone else also wants to run it so we have as much info as we can, that'd be great.
Also if anyone sees any problem with my code point it out. But it's not super readable so sorry
Spoiler: python code
Code: Select all
import random
class Player():
def __init__(self, team, blocker):
self.block = blocker
self.team = team
self.killing = False
self.BP = False
if self.team == "town":
self.BP = True
def __str__(self):
return self.team
def main():
wins = [0,0,0]
n = int(input("How many times would you like it to run?\n"))
scumA = True
scumB = True
players = initPlayers()
done = ""
for i in range(n):
while(done == ""):
if done == "":
players = day(players)
for player in players:
print(str(player))
print()
teams = checkWinCon(players)
done = teams[0]
scumA = teams[1]
scumB = teams[2]
if done == "":
players = night(players, scumA, scumB)
for player in players:
print(str(player))
print()
teams = checkWinCon(players)
done = teams[0]
scumA = teams[1]
scumB = teams[2]
end(done)
if done == "Town":
wins[0] += 1
if done == "Scum A":
wins[1] += 1
if done == "Scum B":
wins[2] += 1
players = initPlayers()
done = ""
print("Town wins: " + str(wins[0]))
print("Scum A wins: " + str(wins[1]))
print("Scum B wins: " + str(wins[2]))
def initPlayers():
players = []
for i in range(4):
players.append(Player("town", False))
players.append(Player("scumA", True))
players.append(Player("scumA", False))
players.append(Player("scumB", True))
players.append(Player("scumB", False))
return players
def day(players):
print("Day")
random.seed()
del players[random.randint(0,len(players)-1)]
return players
def night(players, scumA, scumB):
print("Night")
random.seed()
if scumA:
killerA = findEnemy("scumA", players)
players[killerA].killing = True
if scumB:
killerB = findEnemy("scumB", players)
players[killerB].killing = True
for player in players:
if player.block and not player.killing:
blocked = findEnemy(player.team, players)
players[blocked].killing = False
for player in players:
if player.killing:
target = findEnemy(player.team, players)
players = kill(target, players)
player.killing = False
return players
def checkWinCon(players):
scumA = 0
scumB = 0
Aexists = True
Bexists = True
for player in players:
if player.team == "scumA":
scumA += 1
if player.team == "scumB":
scumB += 1
if scumA == 0:
Aexists = False
if scumB == 0:
Bexists = False
if scumA >= len(players)/2.0:
return ["Scum A", 0, 0]
if scumB >= len(players)/2.0:
return ["Scum B", 0,0]
if scumA == 0 and scumB == 0:
print("sup")
return ["Town", 0,0]
return ["", Aexists, Bexists]
def end(team):
print(team + " wins!\n")
def kill(index, players):
if players[index].BP == True:
players[index].BP = False
print("checkBP")
else:
del players[index]
print("checkNonBP")
return players
def findEnemy(team, players):
random.seed()
enemy = Player("", False)
while(enemy.team == team or enemy.team == ""):
enemy = players[random.randint(0,len(players)-1)]
return players.index(enemy)
main()
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #27 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:55 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:55 am
Town wins: 343
Scum A wins: 76
Scum B wins: 81
That's pretty fucking townsided
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #28 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:15 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:15 am
Town wins: 1018
Scum A wins: 254
Scum B wins: 228
Which adds up to:
Town wins: 1361
Scum A wins: 330
Scum B wins: 309
Still very townsided
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #29 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:18 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:18 am
What would happen if only 2 townies were 1-shot BP?
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #30 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:20 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:20 am
I'll test that, but first I'm gonna test what happens at 3:2:2 and no lynch d1
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Pine
Pine
In Your Head
Pine
In Your Head In Your Head
Posts: 16763 Joined: February 27, 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Post
Post #31 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:21 am
Post
by Pine » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:21 am
Ehhh. This takes the human component out of consideration, which I'm never a big fan of. For example, I doubt it considers that shooting someone who doesn't die is effectively a cop inno on that person. I dunno, I'd hesitate to beef up scum anti-Town power much. Maybe make the goon a 1-shot Doctor?
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"
Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #32 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:23 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:23 am
In post 31 , Pine wrote: Ehhh. This takes the human component out of consideration, which I'm never a big fan of. For example, I doubt it considers that shooting someone who doesn't die is effectively a cop inno on that person. I dunno, I'd hesitate to beef up scum anti-Town power much. Maybe make the goon a 1-shot Doctor?
Yeah, that's the issue with EV.
Also going to test what happens when town doesn't lynch until a scum faction is eliminated
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #33 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:48 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:48 am
No lynching until 1 scum faction is gone:
Town wins: 1586
Scum A wins: 220
Scum B wins: 194
Which is, interestingly enough, an even higher win percentage than the others. Now, if scum knows town is doing that they'll try to aim at town, making the strategy pretty ineffective, but it's certainly interesting.
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #34 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:49 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:49 am
Should the scum team be effective at eliminating two townies, the townies that are left are essentially kingmakers. That's the problem.
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #35 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 am
Actually, if town gets lynched in that case then scum have to shoot each other
Very weird but yeah
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #36 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:59 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:59 am
Really? How does that work?
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #37 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:09 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:09 am
There are 2 possibilities for each scum. Either it gets shot or it doesn't. If it gets shot it loses no matter what. If it doesn't get shot, it's better off shooting the opposing scum because that gets it a win instead of a draw.
But that assumes the townie is confirmed, which isn't necessarily true. Look at this thread for in-depth explanation for that scenario and others
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=25
And also that reminds me, that thread would be pretty useful for determining the EV in terms of if everyone followed optimal play.
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #38 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:11 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:11 am
Very interesting!
If there was a town vig, he could almost act as a cop in the game. If the player doesn't die, then he's obviously town...
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #39 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:18 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:18 am
It would be great if I incorporated mith's conclusions from that thread into my program, but it seems very complicated taking into account BPs
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #40 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:35 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:35 am
Ooh, interesting.
3:2:2 with random lynch every day:
Town wins: 776
Scum A wins: 649
Scum B wins: 575
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #41 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:37 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:37 am
That is interesting! Though how can we prevent the scum teams from hammering no-lynch?
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #42 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:41 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:41 am
In post 41 , ThinkBig wrote: That is interesting! Though how can we prevent the scum teams from hammering no-lynch?
Hmm, good point. If all scum vote no lynch every day, or just refuse to lynch, then they can force no lynch every day.
The question is, is that worth outing themselves to the other team? Might be worth plurality lynch in the setup anyway though.
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
ThinkBig
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades
ThinkBig
Jack of All Trades Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5530 Joined: September 11, 2016
Post
Post #43 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:44 am
Post
by ThinkBig » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:44 am
In post 42 , Infinity 324 wrote: In post 41 , ThinkBig wrote: That is interesting! Though how can we prevent the scum teams from hammering no-lynch?
Hmm, good point. If all scum vote no lynch every day, or just refuse to lynch, then they can force no lynch every day.
The question is, is that worth outing themselves to the other team? Might be worth plurality lynch in the setup anyway though.
That is true...if the same people continue to vote no lynch, it could out themselves as scum
I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.
shos
shos
Survivor
shos
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 17862 Joined: November 28, 2011
Post
Post #44 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:45 am
Post
by shos » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:45 am
how comes scum A wins less/more than scum B?
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #45 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:51 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:51 am
In post 43 , ThinkBig wrote: In post 42 , Infinity 324 wrote: In post 41 , ThinkBig wrote: That is interesting! Though how can we prevent the scum teams from hammering no-lynch?
Hmm, good point. If all scum vote no lynch every day, or just refuse to lynch, then they can force no lynch every day.
The question is, is that worth outing themselves to the other team? Might be worth plurality lynch in the setup anyway though.
That is true...if the same people continue to vote no lynch, it could out themselves as scum
Especially if they don't give a reason.
It's not a real EV calculation, I'm just generating a lot of sample runs. So there's the randomness factor.
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #46 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:02 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:02 am
3:2:2 with no lynch d1:
Town wins: 1500
Scum A wins: 280
Scum B wins: 220
Pretty crazy
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
shos
shos
Survivor
shos
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 17862 Joined: November 28, 2011
Post
Post #47 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:20 am
Post
by shos » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:20 am
lol
I guess EV isn't quite working... because after a couple of runs, 3:2:2 was really antitown imo.....
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #48 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:22 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:22 am
Well for lynch every day town had a well below 50% winrate.
EV just heavily favors no lynch d1 with 3:2:2 for some reason.
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Infinity 324
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor
Infinity 324 they (pl.)
Survivor Survivor
Posts: 18337 Joined: April 7, 2013
Pronoun: they (pl.)
Post
Post #49 (ISO ) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:23 am
Post
by Infinity 324 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:23 am
The question is do you want 50% town winrate or 33% for everyone
Show new GTKAS
<3 you are valid
plural system, we may or may not sign
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.