Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[goodmorning]

Usually the scum template at critical junctures like those are more along the lines of lurking, sitting at the base of wagons (or votes going nowhere), not getting super involved in trying to upset the applecart and just letting townies make the scummy looking L-1 votes and hammers, and then attacking them tomorrow.

except the point, as scum, is not to get caught...

[BlackVoid]

@Hoopla:

Eh, I'm not super sold on the Sotty claim (I'd probably believe a VT claim from her 100% of the time here, and would expect her to claim something like this as scum), but the good thing about having two PR's claimed, is scum can't really afford to not NK them if they're town, which will aid us in PoE calculations as we may not have to test either of those claims.

Usually I agree with this line of approach with regards to sorting claims out, but there is a risk of a Sotty-scum situation where a Mason is NK'ed tonight, then Sotty fakeclaims a guilty tomorrow. If you follow it and are wrong it leads the game to a 2:3 lylo with no info D3 and D4 as people were automatically following a claim/counterclaim scenario. That endgame would be highly favourable for scum imo, particularly when the town's reads have been quite polarised.

What changed between these two posts? It seemed like you wanted to leave Sotty7 for later but now you are more in the camp of lynching her today being a good idea.

[BlackVoid]

By the way, I am heavily against an IAI lynch. Don't expect my support there.

[Hoopla]

except the point, as scum, is not to get caught...

Well yes, but the point is also to get town lynched.

There is risk involved in not accepting town lynches when then materialise, as you often don't get townread for moving the votes elsewhere, and just increase personal risk (and on your partners) for no reason. You have to be reasonably sure you'll look good from putting yourself in the spotlight in order to do it. Otherwise it's easier to sit back and accept the sacrificial lamb the town has offered up for you.

[Raskolnikov]

Lol BV she was put to l-1 that changed.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Cloud

This is my pick.

[Hoopla]

What changed between these two posts? It seemed like you wanted to leave Sotty7 for later but now you are more in the camp of lynching her today being a good idea.

Realising that combinatorally (surely that's a word), there are probably more universes where she does this as scum than as a town Tracker. Also, the worst-case scenario where a Mason-NK, Sotty guilty claim tomorrow is alarming.

[BlackVoid]

Lol BV she was put to l-1 that changed.

That implies you are scumreading her. Honestly I don't get the real reason why you voted or unvoted Hoopla. It seems like you are just going with the flow.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think being more willing to lynch things when you're the alternative is bad thing

[Jaack]

As tempting as it is to vote cloud I'm not sure there is the support for that wagon at this point in the day.

I'd prefer a sotty wagon anyway.

VOTE: Sotty

gogogo

[BlackVoid]

@Rask, yeah, well your play around Sotty7 and Hoopla pretty heavily points to being partnered with them.

You make this extensive case on goodmorning but switch over to Sotty7 when it seems like her lynch was inevitable. If you really believed in your GM case that much, you would have pushed her harder and looked at the people pushing Sotty7 as a GM counterwagon. But it seems like you really wanted your vote on the Sotty7 wagon for optics.

Then there's the Hoopla wagon. You voted her out of nowhere, then switched to Jaack, then voted her back today after a lynch seems likely. Then suddenly after I said Hoopla's post looked sincere, you were all for finding alternative wagons (but not Sotty7, somewhere else).

[BlackVoid]

I think I'm going to stick with Hoopla at least until IAI, Victor, and Creature all say they are down with a Sotty7 lynch. Out of the viable lynches, Hoopla is still my second choice.

[Raskolnikov]

Idk why you make it out as though not wanting to lynch tracker claim is that bad.

[BlackVoid]

"Not wanting to lynch tracker claim" is just an easy standard out for Sotty7's buddies to not vote her. But the more pressing point if your play around Hoopla.

[Raskolnikov]

This game is weird, I hated hoopla but now I feel like I sort of turned into her in all the setup spec wishyness and compromise bs.

[Raskolnikov]

Did you read my point on the pr claim? That's actually the main thing bothering me.

[Raskolnikov]

@Rask, yeah, well your play around Sotty7 and Hoopla pretty heavily points to being partnered with them.

You make this extensive case on goodmorning but switch over to Sotty7 when it seems like her lynch was inevitable. If you really believed in your GM case that much, you would have pushed her harder and looked at the people pushing Sotty7 as a GM counterwagon. But it seems like you really wanted your vote on the Sotty7 wagon for optics.

Then there's the Hoopla wagon. You voted her out of nowhere, then switched to Jaack, then voted her back today after a lynch seems likely. Then suddenly after I said Hoopla's post looked sincere, you were all for finding alternative wagons (but not Sotty7, somewhere else).

Are you like, trying to convince me that I'm scum?

[BlackVoid]

Yep. Hoping you'd self-vote since no one seems to want to lynch you.

On your PR point, here's what mhsmith has to say about PRs: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8433083

The summary is that he thinks scum having a counter to town roles is dumb so I can see why he'd put in scum tracker and town masons even if tracker doesn't directly counter the masons.

Or were you talking about the theory that someone would have soft-cc'd Sotty7? I don't care about that.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Sotty
Bussing.

[BlackVoid]

@Sotty7, what do you feel about Hoopla's push on you and change of stance from "let Sotty7's claim sort her out" to "lynching her today is actually a decent/good idea?"

[CloudKicker]

Posting so i dont get prodded. Will read last 2-3 pages and reposttt

[CloudKicker]

I have no idea how you guys play in forum mafia but lynching the pr claim whatever you personal reads on the slot is completly suboptimal. A fake claim that lives overnight WILL EASILY makes themselves pretty fucking obvious the day after -> i dont even give a shit tbh if sotty is mafia, she very could well be with how bad her reads were this game, i still think a sotty wagon is completly scum motivated.

now, those reads are based mainly on my feeling of the last 4-5 pages since we have more content:

>I dont understand for 1 second the complete hardpush from maria onto bv, i dont get non of it and her hard defend of sotty is wierd
>Gm still town
>I just played a town game with rask and she was my top tr from the first pages of the game, i would say shes a very very easy town to read imo and this just doesnt deliver this game. I even got pushed pretty much only by jaack this game, someone she voted, and when she comes back from afking she ends up fosing her fos's fos, makes 0 sens to me at this stage of the game. IMO, shes mafia or pr and acting weird as fuck because of it, this is her vt play. i also dont give a shit about what you think about outing pr reads, it does help me when i reread myself
>Still think bv is town, slight paranoia. If that guy flips scum then most of my reads would ends up in the trash
>Sotty is prob scum mafia, but we should give her 1 night. EVEN IF SHE ENDS UP MAFIA THERES STILL 2 SCUM OUTSIDE HER, i prefer to lynch outside to get more infos with her tracks/her flip than to just ends up lynching track cause she was heavily fosed prior or her claim and got easily wagoned, we dont lynch pr on em, we poe outside
>Rask further push on sotty proves my point, Jaack same but jack might actually be town, i liked some of his last post and his fos on me is better than sotty's, even if its inconsistent and wrong.
>Creature ?? leaning town
>i still think iai could be scum here, we need more content
>i never understood hoop wagon
>victor prob mason


Also a general feeling that some people almost refuse to out a read on raks, i havent seen many people reads her imo ? maybe thats just me being not so active. I also feel like i get called loltown or trolltown, or people outing excuses to not read me ? Like that my palystyle is weird etc, thats just look completly scummy to me, this is a textbook mafia way to just keep a weak slot shades open and ready for a wagon/flip anything (me being inactive and new). And masons + track seems like nothing imo, only thing rask said that was on point

UNVOTE: jack

VOTE: rask <- havent read her until now, call it omgus, its mosly that i read more the ppl who ends up pushing on me yk, cuz i know my place on the table and i would tote push on me

[CloudKicker]

This isnt her vt play*

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7, what do you feel about Hoopla's push on you and change of stance from "let Sotty7's claim sort her out" to "lynching her today is actually a decent/good idea?"

I don't think it is a big of a switch as you are making it out to be considering that she became a very viable lynch candidate as well.

[Sotty7]

Cloud are you voting Rask because she voted you and that's it?