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VOTE: MYKONIAN

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everyone who's not voting mykonian:
why are you not voting mykonian?

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Thought about trying to box myko in a bit more but theres no need, hes one of the townier people in the game rn
VOTE: kamelot

Sheep myko for great justice?

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Kyouko, have i ever played with your main?
Just curious.

I might post some longer thoughts when i stop phoneposting

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its radio silence from me until this election is called.
and, uh, probably a bit longer after that-- i need time to grieve

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sorry i'm on 2 hours of sleep right now, zero focus or motivation. you'll see me soon. today for sure.

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REM

This may be a town post the more I think about it. It is one of those posts I'd imagine scum wouldn't make because of how awkward it looks.

- what is your justification for the above? I find it a disagreeable post but unsure if playstyle clash.

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MYKONIAN

- how strong was your kamelot read as of page 2/3?
- this read stays throughout the entirety of the game up to the present. Anything that adds to the strength of that read from bottom of page 2?

gamma, imagine a hallway, with all kinds of tripwires with little bells to them. How you catch sneaky scum? Well they step on a line and then you hear them.

You are rather barging through that hall.

- Is this just a restatement of Rem's 57 or are you trying to say something different here?

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KAMELOT

But its cool to join a wagon on a player because of an NAI post
You joined the Gamma wagon but didnt agree with the case??? lol

- i think this is a seriously poor move onto a kyouko wagon, who i am not in the slightest interested in lynching right now.
- actually. the explanation for the move off right after that if the previous were true would be that you were backpedaling off of confrontation with kyouko. not sure if i entirely think that's too plausible. I dont think your actions after the Kyouko -> MTD switch make that much sense if you were scum.
- word on 137. good post (by which i mean its a good thing to say not in any game relevant context, but just a good thing to say)

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MTD

- you're calling kyouko for a perceived "inconsistency" between action and words that I disagree with. not that it doesnt exist, but it isn't a scumtell. unsure if intentions are good here but it doesn't stink as much as kamelot's move. basically i think its a crazy weak stance. thoughts?

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GAMMA

VOTE: Road Kamelot
5 points for anyone who can guess why

- is this "points to whoever can guess why I'm doing this" thing a new trend or something? what's the motive? I definitely remember someone else doing this earlier, whoever did that can answer this too. it looks like an overall very unproductive move that's focused on self-image.
- btw, you are giving me the most trouble right now. its hard to consolidate your play into any single category, whether it be "town" or "scum" or "null" or "town whose playstyle i find very disagreeable"
- whats your justification for lack of transparency being helpful overall?

--
how the fuck do people who have never played on MS (and in kyouko's case, on forums) know what NAI stands for? Is this some sort of internet-wide thing?

and what's with gamma patronizing the newbies? that's uncalled for, newbies can do fine.
totally unrelated to the game plea: can we as a community stop with the bullshit elitist rhetoric like newbies need to earn their stripes to get listened to at all? it's usually unhelpful to completely brush people off even if you disagree with them.

kamelot, i'm feeling a lot better about you as I read further along in the game. Gamma > MTD > mykonian (that's my order of vote preference) are all solid reads that i can connect with your thoughts right now, and all votes that i'd be down with for now.

VOTE: Gamma

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its 2 AM and i think its time to aggressively lose consciousness now. good night.

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checking in. i'll read later.
had a dream that MTD and mykonian became the new admins of the site, just thought i'd share that

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MTD

If you say it exists but is not a scumtell, then what do you explain the inconsistency with?

humanity

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kraska

i feel theres a lot of genuinity in how chaotic this post is that scum can rarely convincingly fake

I thought the same thing, but I do think that to make that the singular focus of a townread would be underestimation
kraska looks okay so far.

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GBTroub

myko's interactions with maria and josh and lack of any interaction with kyouko are all really bugging me. plus his approach to reading people this game is kinda ick (like the color of his name) and feels disingenuous.

uff. could you cite some posts? and don't hate on the puke green
i'm liking a myko wagon less and less
gamma is a fantastic pressure point

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Transcend

HOLD ON LET ME FINISH READING THERS BEEN LIKE 5000 VOTES ON GAMMA DONT FUCKING HAMMER TIL IM DONE READING

Can't judge any of your early content either way but I like this post (regardless of gamma's alignment)
I agree with a lot of the stuff you're saying (re: nadroj post and maria vote

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mykonian

myko i'm curious as to your thoughts on nadroj
and in regards to whether or not i'm going to let transcend get away with backtracking, the answer is yes
where's the scum motive here-- what warrants a vote?

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Someone answer this before I post more: how experienceVOTE: d is MTD?

I dunno man, he's the site admin

As for my reads, on the scum side Gerryoat had weird reactions to votes on him, but I can't really find anyone else particularly scummy (bar Transcend trolling)

On the nullish side, Gamma and My go here their arguments look more to me like drunk Town v another drunk Town.

On the Town side, I think gigabyteTroubadour has been Townish since he subbed in. I also think I would trust MariaR when it comes down to it.

As for the rest, they're mostly very slight reads that I feel will easily sway and therefore will not post here

VOTE: nadroj

LOL
Also how's my new sig

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=21962

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uh fuck here's a phonepost prodge

proceeds to wallpost like a champion

I have response to your "myko is buddying" arg and justifications for a general myko townread but i'll see what myko says to it
My stance on myko has started on an early townread. I became less confident in that townread as time went on and considered him a someone i'd like to priority sort. it's back to townread now. I never really supported a myko wagon.

Why could I not be a day 1 lynch if I'm scum?

this is an ugly sentence. that whole post and josh vote is awful.
and to respond to you josh-- the process of lynching someone often yields information along the way. lynches are not fast. they put a person under the spotlight and unless the person just crumbles and folds, then there are going to be some interactions.

I am 75% sure mykonian is scum and 70% gamma is. They're bigger scum reads that also have bigger payoff if they do flip town. Risk = lower and reward = higher, not rocket science zz

this is an INSANE amount of confidence for a DOUBLE scumread here and makes me less confident in how genuine i think it is, so walk me through what makes you so confident about these two being scum.

Errant i dont like u voting Jordan after that one post esp after saying gamma is good pressure and that mykonian isnt a gr8 wagon
What are you seeing that im not seeing bc jordan looks plenty town

Pedit MTD gives me the jeebies kraska
kyouko is town bc of their response to my vote

jordan what makes someone feel scum to you

its actually hard to say. somewhere between giga's post (where in response I mentioned gamma being a good vote) and the jordan vote, i think a combination of things happened.

i internalized a reluctance to go after gamma because of people tying gamma scum and mykonian scum-- I think that at this point in the game, that sort of logic is a lot fishier than anything gamma's posted so far. giga, jordan, josh, some others maybe. yeah, its illogical but a lot of people pressuring gamma right now are people that i'm uncomfortable with and that makes me a little uncomfortable pushing gamma.

also jordan made bad posts. I'll give MTD and maybe a few others a look-over later.

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kraska noooo too scummy to be scum dont fall into that trap

NOTE: the following post is not something i'm applying to anything game relevant currently but I thought it so I'll say it, because I think this kind of thing a lot in games. So there's a chance it'll come up later.

I think it's interesting that "too scummy to be scum" is seen as a trap by people.
Its definitely applied wrongly in a lot of instances.
However, mafia is ultimately a game that incentivizes disingenuous town play. If people are naturally wishy-washy or not confident or display one of many many traits that are seen as "scummy" then people try to hide that. But many people come to mind as "natural lynchbait" (skybird immediately comes to mind) because they never develop any persona that serves as a town presence, and i think the trick is to develop certain ways of reading those people, and part of that is to understand that, yes, some people are really scummy and that's not scum.

that's all.

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But like

I can't get over how bad every single vote myk made is.

auhgghghhhhh
I just can't help but feel that mykonian is a bad wagon. I don't know if its some interaction read or just pure gut.
I know what you mean. I see some stuff myko posts and I think to myself "people are definitely going to call him out on that but I just don't feel it."

I'll reword it: I'm 75% sure one of gamma and myko are scum at the least, and it's more likely myko

how does this happen?!?!?!?!
what is it about the game that makes you think "oh man, if it's not this person then it HAS to be this person"
Like, if you're wrong about one read, does the thought that you're maybe focusing on the wrong things ever cross your mind?
you're taking shots at a lot of people but that's it, you don't follow up at all, you say "oh MTD might be scum, oh jordan might be scum" but you're ignoring them COMPLETELY in favor of focusing on myko
considering that you've been talking about information from an interaction lens, this is so incomprehensible to me???

i have feelings about giga right now, I'll look at an ISO there at some point.
i like gerry, and transcend i think.

considering doing a read of some people. maybe the game as a whole.

please don't take this as anything like elitism, or "i'm better than all of you"
but as someone who has played sparsely in the past few months, and someone who rarely plays in opens/newbies/normals even then
i find it deeply, deeply unenjoyable to play with the community that centers around games that are more inviting to new players. its frustrating to look at posts and actions and be like "what is the point of this?" I'm not saying that newer players are worse, because they're not. I'm still a relatively new player by a lot of people's standards. But I'm seeing time and again in this game that so many of you have a fundamentally different viewpoint on mafia and so much of that just looks like a theatrical act.
I am fully willing to admit that maybe, possibly, i'm being lenient on myko because i want to cling to the two people that i like and the only reason that i signed up for this game, and i'm thinking that maybe it was a mistake.

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make that three- road kamelot is, of course, awesome, but considering she signed up after i did, her presence in the game did not influence my decision

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I'm sorry, I've been unreasonably on edge for a lot of this week, and I let that leak into my posts I think.
I had to restrain myself when responding to you Josh, and I'm sorry because I think I might have come across as more frustrated at you than I should be, because you do seem to be hunting in earnest

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i'm really sorry about inactivity. real life is destroying me recently and i'm struggling to stay on top of things.
the worst has almost passed, give me a little bit and i'll be back

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I have no time to do typical wall formatting right now, so I apologize for the disorganization

Not enough content and he comes off too townie. I can't really explain why but my gut is telling me to lynch.

Does anyone have a reaction gif so that I can properly show how functionally incorrect I think this is?
Also: I'd like to retract what I said about the scumread confidence thing, I don't think that's valid hunting business anymore.

only child, eh?

if the category still existed (and you played more) I'd nom you for most enjoyable player

And all votes on Maria have been anecdotal fallacies

I'm noting this: you seem to be viewing maria votes in a different light than your non maria votes although imo they're pretty equivalent. that's all

Oh dear, how so? You're saying it's opportunistic in which way? Let me explain to you in a way that not only will you know that you're wrong, everyone will know you haven't been reading the game for coming to this conclusion.

You imply that my vote is opportunistic. Which means I'm taking advantage of the fact that others are voting you, correct? Now, if we use this logic, there are only 2 other people that are voting you. One being Maria and the other being Josh. Since you decided to post this now, it means I'm taking advantage of Josh voting you. As you can see from this post, I voted you way before he did.

At first, I thought this was a terrible response (although the push was also bad)
But it makes a lot of sense in context and I'm thinking gerry is town

Jordan is just lynchbait. That's independent from his scumminess.

I'm actually starting to come around to this theory (and josh's post before)
in an ideal world, we'd ruthlessly lynch the lynchbait until they stopped being lynchbait and help them become better outside of games to create a sitewide environment of better players, but that's just a faraway dream
i'd still love a jordan lynch but its not something i think i'll push for.

GIGA: your reads lacking any sort of substantive basis shows me one of two things
1) You're minimizing direct interaction with people
2) There is little excuse for them being overall bad

there is no legitimate transition onto the kyouko vote (which I also think is a bad vote)!
in fact, last mention of it was a null read and your only justification for that switch is a hamfisted attempt at saying that myko and gamma, your top scumreads from earlier, are now unvotable

and why do my catchups give me lynch immunity..........??

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
VOTE: giga

I would be okay with a compromise on most of the names on the table if it came down to desperate deadline shenanigans (actually at that point I'd lynch literally anyone above no lynch)
and yes, I will be here. I had a rough patch in life for a few days there.

Okay
This is incredibly juicy. Who is spreading this deadline paranoia and managing to swing a fast wagon on kyouko here because it's awful and everything about it smells

Before I hammer let's see what if anyrhing ep and RK have to say. I'd say jordan too but let's be real here.

yeah
here's what I have to say
dont do it dude
your vote is golden where it is

it's deadline and wagons tend to grow quick at that point

how
is
it
deadline
we have LIKE 30 PERCENT OF THE DAY LEFT
WHAT!

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I'm fine with a hammer as soon as RK, Jordan, and EP get whatever words in they need since I think everyone else has said their piece for today.

the last few pages were basically nothing so I in turn have nothing.
This guy claim yet?

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hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi

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formatting out the window because i'm busy

josh (and everyone else)
do not
role speculate
please
thanks pal

i dont want to vote road kamelotta chocolatta today
actually i'm strongly against a road kamelot lynch.

like i'll freely admit that she was my stronger townreads at one point but like when kraska wrote up that case on her i legit when back and realized i gave her towncred too easily and then switched her place in my reads with kraska... i was willing to flashwagon her at deadline too and i thought i mentioned that but i guess i didn't??

my first thought is manufactured transparency and thought process. could be tonal clash but we'll see
i will say that the rest of that post is a good block of stuff. there is nothing wrong with this. dare i say to the point of read-questioning

{Rk, MTD, jordan}

everyone else is basically conftown

is this your post reread or pre reread conclusion, gigabyte troubadour?

when I hear the name MTD I fail to bring up any game relevant thought in my mind (i'm assuming sexiness and charming personality are not game relevant) and that's not town in a vacuum state. I'll ISO that guy and come back to you.

@mykonian--
my knee jerk response to that would be that maria didn't make me feel things either way at all (see: MTD)
I read maria's ISO and still felt that. Maria was a "high profile player" in that her ISO was long, but she was a low profile player in that her interactions lacked punches or anything to latch on to.
I'm curious to see where that leaves MTD (the player most similar to maria in terms of my impression of him) and to a much lesser extent, jordan in a game dynamic standpoint-- as in how composition of the scum team is based on interaction strength and game control.

my main concern right now is people pushing kamelot in a way that i strongly dislike, and many of those people previously being strong townreads on my part

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Giga is my third pick for scum.

Well road Kamelot didn't talk to MariaR all day and pushed shitty Myko and gamma lynches.

Apologies to ssbm but i mistakenly kraskabyte again and cbf getting MariaR momentum.

Hey I wanted to lynch Maria too I just didn't have the heart to do it

hey me too, dunno what transcend means about me cockblocking Maria's lynch

maria was in my lynchpool and i asked transcend to vig her so??

like i'll freely admit that she was my stronger townreads at one point but like when kraska wrote up that case on her i legit when back and realized i gave her towncred too easily and then switched her place in my reads with kraska... i was willing to flashwagon her at deadline too and i thought i mentioned that but i guess i didn't??

I'm not really sure what was awkward about my kyouko vote? i can't really defend myself there, i was always scumreading the slot even though it was never my top pick for scum. a decent portion of my vote came from trusting kraska i'll admit, but like I still was expecting a red flip and had my own read that developed.

As for Maria's partners, when I have time I'll look into it. My current theory is that we're dealing with a two-on one-off situation, which would explain why Maria was so sticky with her Gamma vote. I've eliminated (besides Transcend) Kraska and myko as partners for sure, and I still trust Josh, leaving MTD and Gamma as suspects for me. Only issue I can see with that is with a town!kyouko flip, the wagons stalling the way they did implies a lack of any scum intervention, which also implies that Gamma is town.

MTD/Jordan would probably make the most sense in that case? I'm still attatched to my meta read on Jordan though and I'd rather him explain himself first.

but yeah i need to reread because i have no idea what's actually going on

Because that IS a genuine read list that I posted and i shouldn't BE scummy cuz it's legit what I feel?

but this and the post where he assures he's town are town

UNVOTE:

fuck idfk

{Rk, MTD, jordan}

everyone else is basically conftown

that a lie! bull!
in fact
you're liable for libel!

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okay so i somehow ended up accidentally quoting 4 posts along with that bad pun

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Errant why are you townreading me so strongly to begin with

I mean yeah the pushes are shit bc im mislynch bait up the wazoo but scumreading me is kinda normal at this point

ahhh. hmm. i can't exactly reveal one of the bigger reasons. that should make sense (to you)
in addition there are some posts that i'll find time to quote and talk about in the very near future.
also theres a lot of stuff after this question that i find good.
myko, your interaction analysis is not good.

I want to say that josh's D2 play is quite town. mykonian is insane town.

VOTE: Road Kamelot

(I still feel kinda conflicted about this since i did townread her D1 >.< to be fair that was mostly gut)

Pedit(s): Yeeea dont do that. jordan is still the one other person i do want to lynch.

this is fairly awful i think
and jordan is not a good lynch i think
hmm.

im rarely one for readslists these days but if i had to de-nebulize my thoughts right now, they'd go something like

mykonian - "sexy town, both in towniness and general personality"
Transcend, Road Kamelot, Josh - "town. note the absence of sexy. sorry."
nadroj, Gamma - "no major impressions, and overall not very useful slots to me."
kraska - "some mix of the above row and below row"
MTD - "generally poor impression and an ISO needs to be done to collect these thoughts in one place"
gigabyte - "ew"

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fantastic shooting, kraska.