Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[CloudKicker]

Ay people, now that this is started here what i made for you guys

------------------
Since i never played on mafiascum but have experience, i wanted to let people know my background etc. Soooo i thought about making a disclaimer of sorts so here it goes

This is my first mafia game ever on any website, i havent even read games either, i literally just know the concept of forum mafia and how lynches/night actions are done. But, i have a lot of experience in em (epicmafia) and im great at mechanics.
->It implies my scumhunting skills are based off of real time gameplay, not forum so i will have to adjust there
-> I dont know how stuff like lying/AtE’ing or trolling is alignement read on this site etc, so my first few games i might play soft

Here a disclaimer on my style:
-Be aware that i lie, i troll, i bait people all the time into giving me reactions so i can read them and i can also be abrasive at time.
-I dont believe in long post like this one, this is an expection.
-I might not explain all my reads mostly because i am lazy and people just ends up disagreeing with me even tho the flip is according to my reads. Literraly no one agrees with you at all in this game
-I believe that nothing is inherently alignement indicative —> that means that any behaviors can be used as both alignement as long as its done for your win condition.
-I have seen that you guys like to random votes at the start of the game, i wont do and believe this is pointless for some reasons:
1. I dont want people to retrospectively justifiy themselves that their vote was just random
2. I dont believe you can get any real reaction since everyone knows its pure random
3. It doesnt even gives tells about voting patterns
4. If you become slightly inactive then your can get someone blitzed with ur vote (?) not sure about this one since the day phases are PRETTY DARN LONG.

That means that if i vote, i somewhat intend to play for my win condition by voting you, by getting reads or to lynch you. Its not random.
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Now into the game, right off the bat

Hey everyone, let's have a good game!

Two important observations from recent games:

1. Even though I have some amount of mercy in me, I am a firm believer in Lynch All Liars. I therefore request all town players not to try stupid gambits like fakeclaiming, as those actions are highly likely to significantly hamper my ability to find scum.
   
   
2. I do not believe in a Random Voting Stage. I do believe in the principle of using votes to get discussion started, and I acknowledge that early in the game, there isn't much information to go on, but I firmly believe that voting someone over a (very) weak scumtell is better then voting someone completely randomly.

Vote: Hoopla

By using dice tags to determine who you vote, you prove (instead of merely claim) that your vote was made without any intent whatsoever. As such, your posts #5 and #6 are specifically designed not to give town any additional information. Because town needs information on the most important question of the game (who is scum), whereas scum is fully informed on that matter, your posts do not benefit town as much as they should. Why are you intentionally playing in a way that is more beneficial to scum then to town?

I disagree with 1, already we probably will have a hard time working together.
-> He says he have mercy, maybe because he needs a post to quite in retrospect so he can meta-justify himself, not auto lynching everyone lying ? As mafia who wouldnt want to lynch another mafia member who lied ?

2. Completly agree with, good

I didnt like your last 2 lines.
a)
-> You talk and insist a lot about scum pov, is it because you want to be townread because of it or because you are scum and have the scum pov pretty active in mind ?

'' Because town needs information on the most important question of the game (who is scum), whereas scum is fully informed on that matter, your posts do not benefit town as much as they should.''

Couldve just been

''your posts do not benefit town as much as they should''

Also the use of should, implying you believe he has to play for town win con.

b) ''Why are you intentionally playing in a way that is more beneficial to scum then to town?''
You acknowledged that people do use the random votes even tho you dont personally like it, why do you even fos someone for doing it then ? Just because you disagree with it doesnt mean its scummy.

I dont even know how to formally vote yet, ill check it out but let just say that i fos Michel

[CloudKicker]

Mfw everyones literally ignoring me when i put effort ;-;

[CloudKicker]

I actually like what GM said about BBT unless it's a super catered pocketing attempt. Also him saying the game was annoying I think mirrors how I felt about people arguing over the dice, although that's an assumption.

I'm wondering what the likelihood is micheal would issue that PSA #1 as scum, I think very low. The only issue is the chance he thought of it from pre-game and planned to say it regardless of role pm, instead of just now (makes sense given the circumstances).

No scumleads yet though.

I was wondering what PSA means in the context

[CloudKicker]

Ohhh Sonia i didnt know youre right, hi girl . Im happy at least i know someone on the table. Sonia feel free to help me out about the difference in scumhunting in forum maf vs em. Like if i out a read on someone and im completly off based off forum scumhunt meta then just tell me, i am here to learn too <3

[CloudKicker]

It is my belief that one of the tasks of each protown player should be to play as obvtown as possible. That way, mafia can't get away with actions that are obviously beneficial for them, and are forced to take actions that risk them outing themselves. Whereas if town is bullshitting "in order to draw reactions", mafia has a lot more room to manoeuvre.

I liked that part. My playstyle is mostly to do whatever it takes to get correct reads then towntell my way out of any lynches by lynching mafia and clearing myself. Also overall your tone is pretty neutral and emotionally detached, i dont know how people reads tone on forum sooo well see.

[CloudKicker]

I'm curious Cloud, how do you kick start games on epicmafia without random voting?

RVS has been here for as long as I have been on this site, or at least as long as I remember. It's changed and migrated over the years, but it is pretty much always fruitful in starting the game from nothing, especially since day starts became more common. It's not perfect but the reason it is still here is because there hasn't really been anything to replace it.

I mean right now we have you and Michel debating playing style over anything that has really happened in the game yet. Strongly held play ideals won't change from a scum to town role, but perhaps how someone enters the game in "RVS" will.

To sum it up, we vote our fos and we lynch them. Reads are easier to get and are more accurate since its easier to deceive when you have time to write a post vs real time

[CloudKicker]

Awe kitty, i just skimmed trough and didnt see you responded sorry

[CloudKicker]

Happy enough with hoopla's post on Michel to have him as my first town read. Hoopla piggybacks off this with a slight town read as well, even though she probably would point this out as scum or town.

Cloud I have a neutral read since most of his posts have been about playing style but I'm hoping that's just because he is new.

Everyone else is pretty much nothing at this point.

lol funny, i have no idea why youd make a post avec someone null-telling with non-alignement tellings posts about mechanics. Also, whats the difference between ''much nothing at this point'' and ''neutral read'' -> isnt everyone a neutral read by default when you dont have any reads on them

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: TwoFace

Havent outed a single read, the coin gimmick and jumping on that wagon. Also hes being totally ignored by the rest of the table for some reasons

[CloudKicker]

Of those three I think Sotty is most likely. She had an empty vote, but at the same time added a few weak reads right afterword. Seems like someone who knew their vote was not good, so they decided to put down some content so as to not get blamed for fluff. 86 also shows more self awareness about the quality of her posts.

I like this as a tell in general -- scum often tend to overcompensate if they feel their vote isn't justified well enough... but Sotty can be a savvy scumbag. I honestly don't know how to read her and what tells apply to her these days. Perhaps a good ol' wagoning is just what she needs.

Yea i had the same exact thought, i really liked that read on his post. I also think that goodmorning is most likely town from tone, both wagons are and were bad

[CloudKicker]

Havent outed a single read

can you please link me to where you have outed reads, I have trouble locating them when looking over your iso.

My initial post had more content than all of yours combined, that being said i also outed more reads today. I have very little experience at forum mafia and people keep saying hoopla might be joking/sarcastic bur i didnt like some of his posts -> no need to quote here it was mostly his comments about rarsk being and the bws on goodmorning


From scotty: (i messed up the format and too lazy to go back)

''Other scum reads, Cloud maybe? I can't decide on him. We'll put I am Innocent as a scum read for now just for lurking. Like what the hell dude?''

>I dont actually know if this is towny or considered anti-town for outing possible soft but, why using the word

Innocent

capitalized over town/townie/sided with the town ? And if this was a soft, wold you make yourself the goal to have interactions with me almost every single you have? like i feel you have 0 actuals reads on me.

-> And how am i lurking really, at the time you posted that i already had 3 posts as of today, one like 4h before yours and others players has posted less than i did

[CloudKicker]

My initial post had more content than all of yours combined,

Spoiler:

Doesnt help me you read boi

[CloudKicker]

Why MariaR? If you think that scum aided the Rask wagon, why vote a player that didn't vote him?

She's a fidgety nervous scumbag already bracing for conflict from a solitary vote. Are you not curious to see what will happen if we give her some more?

The only alignment relating to that wagon I have conviction about is Rask's. If there's one scum on his wagon (the most likely scenario) -- that's still the same ratio of scum:town as off the wagon anyhow. Are you still suspicious of Rask?

Nervous me and me HA ohhh honey you are in for it if you wanna keep going

"Why not rasks vote"
Because it's Rask ^_^

Can i be in for it if i keep going ;)

[CloudKicker]

What do you think about the fact that the Rask-wagon dismantled so easily? Also, do you have a read on BBT?

Wagons that swell rapidly based on little information can often collapse just as fast. I don't really have a read on BBT yet.

Liked that.

My general state of mind about those first pages is that this is a forum mafia game where days are 2 weeks, i sincerely doubt that anyone on this table believed rask would get hammered before p5 soo all of those long post about reading into the votes looks pretty darn silly to me. I dont think mafia would dare alignement tell in GM/rask like wagons, ever (and lets hope i didnt jinx it). So i am ignoring it completly and i suggest everyone do the same.

So far i like jack/bv, jack over bv. hoop is right about bv who shouldnt try this hard about reading into the bws and that i looks tryhard, though his tone was towny and content top notch.

[CloudKicker]

it*

[CloudKicker]

>I dont actually know if this is towny or considered anti-town for outing possible soft but, why using the word

Innocent

capitalized over town/townie/sided with the town ? And if this was a soft, wold you make yourself the goal to have interactions with me almost every single you have? like i feel you have 0 actuals reads on me.

Innocent is capitalized because I was talking about a player that is in the game -> "I am Innocent" I don't blame you for missing it that, he's a lurking bum right now.

I agree with Blackvoid's feelings when it comes to Rask, his wagon and Hoopla. Post 147 is good.

VOTE: Sable Spread out the votes

Wrong game?

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

[CloudKicker]

1st impressions

I like
BV GM Hoopla Maria (<3)

Dont like
Scotty TF

[CloudKicker]

fmfw triple posts, brace with me everyone, i forgot that i like jack

[CloudKicker]

Havent outed a single read

can you please link me to where you have outed reads, I have trouble locating them when looking over your iso.

My initial post had more content than all of yours combined, that being said i also outed more reads today. I have very little experience at forum mafia and people keep saying hoopla might be joking/sarcastic bur i didnt like some of his posts -> no need to quote here it was mostly his comments about rarsk being and the bws on goodmorning


From scotty: (i messed up the format and too lazy to go back)

''Other scum reads, Cloud maybe? I can't decide on him. We'll put I am Innocent as a scum read for now just for lurking. Like what the hell dude?''

>I dont actually know if this is towny or considered anti-town for outing possible soft but, why using the word

Innocent

capitalized over town/townie/sided with the town ? And if this was a soft, wold you make yourself the goal to have interactions with me almost every single you have? like i feel you have 0 actuals reads on me.

-> And how am i lurking really, at the time you posted that i already had 3 posts as of today, one like 4h before yours and others players has posted less than i did

-> And how am i lurking really, at the time you posted that i already had 3 posts as of today, one like 4h before yours and others players has posted less than i did

Cloud. I'm confused why did you post this? Nobody accused you of lurking so your response doesn't make sense

Cloud, Why Scotty?

What do you think of the reads I have shared?

I'll get back to you when you declare some reads punctuated with something other than variations of

"...is a good vote"

.

Hoopla

would also be a good vote

is now a lean scum read.

Why would hoopla be a lean scum when what she said is accurate? You haven't really given reads. You claim to have 2 town reads but won't share those and you said 2 people are good votes.

Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

I'm not buying it.
VOTE: Cloudkicker

[CloudKicker]

wow okay sorry i fucked up the format but essentially

1.TF proved that he didnt read scotty or my post when he asked why i said that. I literraly quoted scotty in the very same post when he said i was lurking

2.hey victor, congratz on not buying a literal townslip, how townie you are to discredit exactly a town calling a non-team slip on him self with a random dude. i will hardfos anyone who believe i am mafia with iaminnocent ->I dont care if you disagree, its exactly what happened

[CloudKicker]

I know i just messed up with the innocent thingy, i didnt think it was a person but a read/check, again if you actually read twoface

[CloudKicker]

I know i just messed up with the innocent thingy, i didnt think it was a person but a read/check, again if you actually read twoface

What am I supposed to be reading?

>I dont actually know if this is towny or considered anti-town for outing possible soft but, why using the word

Innocent

capitalized over town/townie/sided with the town ? And if this was a soft, wold you make yourself the goal to have interactions with me almost every single you have? like i feel you have 0 actuals reads on me.

Innocent is capitalized because I was talking about a player that is in the game -> "I am Innocent" I don't blame you for missing it that, he's a lurking bum right now.

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

We already cleared it up

[CloudKicker]

TF proved that he didnt read scotty or my post when he asked why i said that. I literraly quoted scotty in the very same post when he said i was lurking

So wait. You admitted you realized that I am innocent was a player before you made this post. This post you are still under the impression sotty accused you of lurking.

Dude, are you fucking serious im really getitng irritated here. It was a misunderstanding -> i thought he said i was innocent AND lurking, it thought he had both reads on me. Then you asked me where did anyone asked me where i lurked ? When you asked me this, YES I KNEW HE DIDNT TALK ABOUT HIM, but the post ure refering to where im saying i didnt lurk, I DIDNT KNOW. So no, by saying that he said i lurked after explaining myself isnt me saying that i thought he DID JESUS. IM JUST SAYING THATS THE POST AND WHY I TOUGHT THAT.

[CloudKicker]

Twoface being like antisocial and giving a "fuck you" vibe doesn't get any points but it's hard to judge it from style from an alt without meta available. Him not voting anyone despite seeming to have problems with people is kind of weird to me. Would think he'd vote victor or maybe cloud at this point given the things he said.

how am I being anti-social? I am having conversations with people which is the exact opposite of that. I also don't think I have given off an FU vibe to anyone other than maybe cloud and that's because he said he can't read me. I don't care if people can read me or not, but people can at least make an effort to. Cloud hasn't been asking me any questions or trying to get my opinions on things. He criticized me for not giving any reads but never bothered to ask if I even have any or not.

Are you guys all like this, arguing on semantics the whole game. If i put on vote on ur ass for not outing any reads and criticizing you for other stuff, ofc im implying that i would like you to out some contents. Im not going to take ur hand and ask for everything, thats not how i play. You give content, i read you. If i need explanations ill ask.

Also just so you know tf, antisocial doesnt mean : not social, it means antisocial behavior which is like rask said, a FU vibe<- thats just for your personnal culture

[CloudKicker]

Twoface and goodmorning?

God why do you people love being intentionally vague.
Do you like miscommunication? Do people actually enjoy when things like the "Innocent" thing happen and apparently hoopla?
Is there something fun about having little mini word games every step of the way?

Like it would literally take less effort to say it than make that post about why not

VOTE: goodmoring

I think I want this wagon. Tone does kind of bother me.
Was about to vote victor actually but his response makes me think town, and goodmorning's push on him has been weird.

Raks is prob town and so is the gm wagon

And twoface fair enough. Its not that i didnt understand the reference thought.

UNVOTE: TwoFace

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: mariar

Notice me senpai <3 Do you think i am town this game girl wink wink

[CloudKicker]

Sorry I'll work on being less snarky

but I enjoyed that one

VOTE: mariar

Notice me senpai <3 Do you think i am town this game girl wink wink

I can't read you because for once in your life you're not trolling and going srs it's quite scary

Im not even srs, do you want me to be -> down to meet ur parents

[CloudKicker]

Sonia ill towntell for you if you just finally give me yo snap

[CloudKicker]

Sonia ill towntell for you if you just finally give me yo snap

...Please stop this

I dont tr ppl who reject me ;-; are you afraid that we will be so close together i might guess ur alignement ? is that why sonia

[CloudKicker]

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

Usually when you point out things like this yourself they're less likely to be true than if someone else noticed it themself. Kinda like when people use the argument "I would never do X as scum", when that person has been doing X all game.

I come from a site where its very very hard to townslip on purpose and this was genuine. Its not alignement indicative to point said slip, you can then judge for yourself if you believe it is one or not Mostly scum will disagree, ppl who will 100% buy it are scum pocketing you and the rest is yolo. Seriously most of the users on EM are disgustingly incompetent at mafia so i point out the slips. But i agree with the wifom.. i would never wifom like that as scum
Also, its just a non-team slip and its an obvious one

[CloudKicker]

Just another disclaimer for everyone : first 10 pages was me adjusting and im trolling her rn. Fosing/jumping on someone for that is kinda hilarious, i didnt expect that from forum mafia. Only GM had a correct approach about the possible scumminess of me trolling, reinforcing the fact that i believe hes town.

Btw just a quick fact sheet for you guys:
-> attracting attention on purpose and trolling isnt scum indicative, im actually trying to get a feel for sonia becasue we are a huge history of playing games on em and shes really good.

Hoop's comment was bad: It basically was -> i dont have any reason to vote you alignement related but i want to because i dislike how you wierdly flirt -> puts shade on me about the structure of my posts and not the content.

And more seriously, i am still waiting a read from you sonia bby

[CloudKicker]

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

Usually when you point out things like this yourself they're less likely to be true than if someone else noticed it themself. Kinda like when people use the argument "I would never do X as scum", when that person has been doing X all game.

I come from a site where its very very hard to townslip on purpose and this was genuine. Its not alignement indicative to point said slip, you can then judge for yourself if you believe it is one or not Mostly scum will disagree, ppl who will 100% buy it are scum pocketing you and the rest is yolo. Seriously most of the users on EM are disgustingly incompetent at mafia so i point out the slips. But i agree with the wifom.. i would never wifom like that as scum
Also, its just a non-team slip and its an obvious one

Someone points out why self meta is bad, you quote them and continue to self meta.

The flirting stuff is gross too

EBWOP: This is all because you can't read her Cloud? The vote suggests you are leaning more scum than anything else. When you say you want a read from her- you want her to read you or the game in general?

MariaR - Have you seen this from Cloud before?

LOL she seen it all

And seriously, self-meta isnt bad since its free information that someone can call me out on eventually, sincerely i think its towny if anything. And i can read sonia, pretty well too but like i said this is my first forum mafia so i am not confident. I just want her to interact with me and outs some reads. And i want them directed to me, i prefer to read someone whos talking to me than to someone else. And flirting isnt gross and yes i do that all the time

[CloudKicker]

Wasnt there for like the few last pages and a skimmde trought the posts, 2 things

1. BV dont read me for the townslip, i gave plenty better content, and my townslip was about me and innocent being non-team, not that i am town aligned
2. Littleraly stop reading in early wagons, town has mo incencitive to wagon early on than mafia anyway

[CloudKicker]

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Didnt like that line, then i went over your iso and oh boy the walls of texts im totally not planning to hard-read into and ure voting gm whos town so theres that.

Michel's excuse to sheep Bv read is weak and comes off as fake. I would totally prefer to just not out reads and then come back or form new reads with new information than to take someone elses reads and thats assuming you tr bv and sure about that read
So far

<3 : maria ( shes actually . leaning t)
+ bv gm jack rask maybe i forget some , maybe hoop here too
. tf leaning t, bbt + inno that i havent read
-sotty? wierd pushes + michel bad recent post, victor gut + bad lines and im lazy to read too much into him so i just put him there.

[CloudKicker]

Sotty I

remember as a generally strong player

, though i

t's been some years since I last played with her

. Her play in this game confirms that assessment. She's making solid posts, I can understand the reasoning for the suspicions she voices. Overall, she

hasn't given me any reason to be suspicious of her, but I can easily see scum her fake the level of townieness she's currently displaying

.

I'm currently townreading her, but mainly because each individual player has a better chance of being town then being scum a priori

.

Maria

is a bit of a spamposter

.

Coming from chat mafia into games with 2 week deadlines will do that for you

,

I suppose

. As for a read on her:

I don't have much on her either, sorry.

The g

ame I played with her where she was town, she completely flipped out when she felt she got unfairly pressured. The game I played with her where she was scum, I mainly remember the way she argued that a townslip made by her scumpartner could have been an intentional slip, and managed to do this in such a way that the argument was completely ignored

.

Nothing of the sort has happened in this game yet

, so the

only thing I can tell you is that her tone here seems to be generally consistent with what I saw in her town game.

Just to precise my thought on this post, i think those reads are so weak. Instead of reading the game's content hes answered bv's questions with meta and it doesnt help anyone here to agree with his reads.

Why do you even bother outing reads that are so shit dude if its not to give the impression you actually read them. The whole meta on maria's scumslip defending thing is soo goddam irrelevant since its how maria wouldve played on something that happened THAT game bro, its not meta on her play.

All michel does is :

meta-read that is weak

, then add a

reason to doubt said read

, then out another read then another reason why its not a hard read.

VOTE: michelsableheart in the top 3 worst post of the game so far

[CloudKicker]

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Didnt like that line, then i went over your iso and oh boy the walls of texts im totally not planning to hard-read into and ure voting gm whos town so theres that.

Yeah, there was meant to be a not there.

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm

not

buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Hopefully the post makes sense now.

Yea much more, that line really standed out when i was rereading. Can you also explain me the gm read in short

[CloudKicker]

I havent read into your intereactions with gm but if your first parahraphe is correct, then i agree she shouldnt keep pushingon rv related content

-> will look more into the slip thingy eventually

[CloudKicker]

Allo sonia, why arent you sleeping :3

[CloudKicker]

literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative

[CloudKicker]

literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative literraly who cares about a dice tag, how in the world is it alignement indicative

Tell me how you really feel about dice tags

Its just complettly non-alignement indicative at the start, imho. I just feel you guys are mostly interested in smal arguements about semantics or misunderstanding than to real based on tone and general behaviors, WHICH IS IMO MUCH MORE INDICATIVE like akwardness and the choice of words.

[CloudKicker]

Can i get a vote count please

[CloudKicker]

<3 : maria ( shes actually . leaning t)
+ bv gm jack rask maybe i forget some , maybe hoop here too
. tf leaning t, bbt + inno that i havent read
-sotty? wierd pushes + michel bad recent post, victor gut + bad lines and im lazy to read too much into him so i just put him there.

@BBT more recent reads, please pay attention. Also i def sr michel more than i did sotty and tf, tf is most likely town that is abrasive like it was pointed out recently.

[CloudKicker]

I know what fence sitting is - and you did it.

Are you gonna respond to anything else?

What's the difference between fence sitting and being unsure?

Curious about this too. I thought fence-sitting was like exactly what michel did, just not taking a position at all ever even if not so confident like watching something happen inside the fence and not participating.

[CloudKicker]

Michel, when someone ask for your thoughts just dont force bullshit reads because its transparent so next time just admit if you have pretty much nothing of value

[CloudKicker]

The gm push is bad, michel just came back from afk, says he didnt read and vote one of the towniest tone-wise player with a bad read -> not unvoting

[CloudKicker]

Lots of tin foil hats about.

I will be 100% sincere even if this might looks scummy, this is the reason why i didnt want to extrapole on my maria read.

I play so many games with her off site and hes really strong, tho i wouldnt say that she can fool be consistently? idk if thats the word, im not a native english speaker btw. Maria is the kind of player that i usually sr the shit out of shes town because she doesnt care about what others ppl thinks of hers. She also didnt push on me once in this game even tho we interacted, which is imo, something she wouldnt do as scum -> she likes to push on me because SHE KNOWS that i will eventually, in the course of the game, read her correctly.

The ''. leaning t'' wasnt a townread per se, the . means null leaning t. I dont want to hard read maria since shes the kind of player to show off her alignement based on her behaviors, not her content cause shes darn hard to read and i dont want to lynch her, her alignement will reveal itself soon enough.

[CloudKicker]

Also i just quoted some random quotes, i wanted to quote BBt asking me about my read on maria

[CloudKicker]

Hey sotty, talk to me, i am a great read and if youre actualy town then i will defend you

[CloudKicker]

seems like all the null bullies are converging onto the same reads. That eithers town who is right, or town that is gett rekt and is lynchbaiting.

[CloudKicker]

and frankly i am the best when i drink, i shit post a lot but i literraly went 3/3 so often

[CloudKicker]

AND BTW IF ANYONE WANTS ME TO DO AN ISO DRUNK DIVE IMA DO IT RN

[CloudKicker]

AND BTW IF ANYONE WANTS ME TO DO AN ISO DRUNK DIVE IMA DO IT RN

Nobody wants you to do that

Seriously you fucking wish

[CloudKicker]

I am an easy read and my reads are top notch, whyd you want me to replace out thats mean

[CloudKicker]

Twoface, the thing is, i am also i really good player and the majority of the player base ( i assume) cant say that. My consistent w/r over thousand of games is between 60-65% on both alignement

[CloudKicker]

Twoface, i dont think you understand who ure talkking to. if i was scum youd already would be voting obvious cop

[CloudKicker]

Your loss

[CloudKicker]

We will see that post game when i go 3/3

[CloudKicker]

13 players setup, normalcy -> thers no way in hell that theres 2 scum since it would give 4 mislynches for 2 mafia

[CloudKicker]

So you aren't new actually. You're another alt. Why didn't you just say so?

3 mafia and a SK would pass for normal
2 teams of 2 mafia would also pass for normal.

And sorry, not going to believe your denial cause a newbie doesn't talk about balance and such during their first game on site.

P.edit - no you don't have to do a reads list

I am a newbie at forum mafia, i am not a newbie at mafia. I am a newbie about normalcy and stuffy like that but i was actually curiousa bout the roles. Believe it or not, i passed a good 2 hours skimming trhought the most popular roles on mafiascum and how its different than on em. I dont have any alts

[CloudKicker]

I am a newbie at forum mafia, i am not a newbie at mafia. I am a newbie about normalcy and stuffy like that but i was actually curiousa bout the roles. Believe it or not, i passed a good 2 hours skimming trhought the most popular roles on mafiascum and how its different than on em. I dont have any alts

Have you picked out a good fakeclaim yet? Don't go with anything too fancy for a first try is my humble advice.

I did, i would pm you for advices but i dont think i can

[CloudKicker]

I guess I'm gonna lurk then.

Ure voting bbt tho

I need to reread both before voting

[CloudKicker]

^ thats me reading the page 22 and posting before 23

[CloudKicker]

I've skimmed everything, but have thoroughly read the first 6 pages.

It seems that part of my feelings for goodmorning were caused by skimming. Posts like #112 do have solid content buried within the fluff, but that's not immediately obvious when skimming.

Such implicit content seems slightly more likely to come from town then from scum, as they're generally somewhat less concerned with how they're perceived. Therefore:

Unvote

BBT is not a bad wagon. The way he asks rask for scum ON the wagon immediately after unvoting in #97 seems like a calculated way to focus attention on others for something he did as well.

Vote: BlueBloodedToffee

Noting that Jaack and BBT are unlikely to be scumpartners, as I feel the interaction in #97, #101 and #102 is a 1-2 punch that scum wouldn't set up that early in the game. Scum would be more likely to keep a bit of distance, to safe the coordinated attack for when it's more impactful.

I likes the part where you talk about implicit content and that you were wrong on Gm, can you just quote/show/explain said content? Imo gm is pretty towny since the start of the game but hes being lazily fosed for
the structure of his post and that hes not being a tryhard

[CloudKicker]

Ill check reguarily if anyone wants my input but i have mid terms this week so im busy af. My initial gut read was that gm is town and sotty is tote null aand seems hard to read tone-wise

[CloudKicker]

Can i get a vote count please

[CloudKicker]

Hey grey, claim since ure at l-1 and i wouldnt mind hammering you

[CloudKicker]

Wont be avaible for 2-3 days

UNVOTE: michel havent read anything past page 27 good luck guys

[CloudKicker]

Came back, i will read everything later on

[CloudKicker]

Hey guys, i have been super budy lately and im not totally sure i have the motivation to reread everything and then be confident about my vote, i am actively thinking about subbing out ill decide tomorow

[CloudKicker]

I decided not to sub out, if anyone could resume me d1 and the push/wagons itll be appreciated

[CloudKicker]

lol is that a scumslip

[CloudKicker]

looks like a scumslip to me. Mightve quoted twoface while deciding the night kill, this is kinda hilarious

[CloudKicker]

LOL dude do you even understand why its a scumslip ? And i reread last 3-4 pages before the wagon and apparently you were his hard sr, ohh the coincidence

[CloudKicker]

I was talking about the day lynch about being his top sr. Its funny that the quotes you quoted includes both sotty/hoop. i bet my macaroni if youre scum one of them is also mafia because you mightve quoted it as an incencitive to kill him, ya dun gooffed

[CloudKicker]

And who as town even reply to someone like that when being called out for scumslipping, by discreditng me ? If you were town you would understand perfectly my train of thoughts because we would then be the same alignement and the same win condition you know.

Explain me thoses quote or i might just vote you into sotty/hoop if you flip scum

[CloudKicker]

I was talking about the day lynch about being his top sr. Its funny that the quotes you quoted includes both sotty/hoop. i bet my macaroni if youre scum one of them is also mafia because you mightve quoted it as an incencitive to kill him, ya dun gooffed

actually both are my scummates. wanna help me lynch them??? I'll even let you pick which one goes first since ur obviously the genius in this game.

Ill lynch you first tho, if thats correct for you

[CloudKicker]

I think you fucked up terribly and you force yourself to post as to not look scummy, and it doesnt work

[CloudKicker]

Heyyy but it took you about 25 min to out a first good post since the start of the day!! Thats a pretty good explanation, your rxn was still terrible

[CloudKicker]

Okay iaminnocent, heres the deal.
Ill help you lynch 1 person
- if he flips town then you are a liar and are confirmed mafia, since you said you would bus -> mafia lies
- if he flips mafia you just confirmed yourself as mafia for busing, so youre mafia and ill lynch you
- if i get nkd after the lynch, and then you miraculously quoted me then i will dead vig you from gy

deal?

[CloudKicker]

cloud I am so glad ur in this game to keep me straight, thank u very much.

Creature, I made a promise to myself if I was wrong about grey I'd look over his reads and 1009 brings up some good points. I've been defaulting on my hoopla town read based on a big town tell day 1, but I'm less convinced now.

i think you just didnt answer to my deal ? thats pretty scummy to ignores the deal !!

[CloudKicker]

Hey iaminnocent if i decided to lynch you i wouldve already voted you

[CloudKicker]

Maybe they already pr read him prior. I like your post rask but i dont thibk its enough to completly discard the slip, especially with his awful rxn

[CloudKicker]

I try to read but this is all over my head And sotty instead of pushing shades on the lurker maybe you should try to convince ppl why you aint scum.

[CloudKicker]

I haven't read a single one of victor's posts since my ragewall. (Well, one, actually, because it came up on preview. But only that one.) I still think Victor is Scum and I still want him lynched at some point, but I wasn't convincing anyone active and I'm not inclined to waste my breath, particularly not now that he's claimed Mason (which is totally not Scum's favourite FC or anything, nope).

I don't like you equating tunneling with towniness. Tunneling is a mildly scummy behaviour. Also: showing up and talking about something I'd already made up my mind on would have been very boring indeed, and useless. Far better to post thoughts on a wide range of subjects so they can survive my inevitable death.

That said:

Vote: IAI

Since gm apparently isn't going to read this, everyone else might as well answer these questions for themselves.

Why would town stop reading any players posts? That should be a lynchable offence itself!

And why didn't she think there wasn't the possibility of convincing anyone active? First there were plenty of players (TwoFace, Maria, GreyICE) who clearly willing to listen to a Victor scumcase. As for others, how would she know if she didn't engage them? Or even they were townreading me, how exactly could she hope to win the game without attempting to change their minds. She was supposedly fairly confident I was scum but not interesting in trying to convince other because it wasn't easy? The defeatist, there was no lynching Victor attitude just doesn't just doesn't make sense for town.

What does make sense is that gm was scum, happy to sit on an easy vote throughout the day thinking I wouldn't get lynched and she could take the high road once GreyICE flipped town.

VOTE: goodmorning

Thats a garbage line and logic, i havent read everything and im town. Also the inconsistency of pushing on gm for thay and not everyone, me included

[CloudKicker]

Probably sotty, there's still greyice's point on hoopla being capable of this as town which is annoying.

So youre sayinf you keep yourself from having certains reads because of the dead but you ignore his extremeley strong srs, curious curious

[CloudKicker]

Lol mostly lazyness but i am reading, i just dont plan on reading everything i missed

[CloudKicker]

Just much of this game haven't you read Cloud?

idk like, everytime before the bbt/grey embargo, about 10 pages from 30-40 something. Will do enventually if needs be

[CloudKicker]

everything*

[CloudKicker]

there were plenty of players (TwoFace, Maria, GreyICE) who clearly willing to listen to a Victor scumcase.

Vc to be posted eventually, but it was a lynch.

Votecount 1.Final

GreyICE (7)

Sotty7 , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Creature , Raskolnikov LYNCH!,

VictorDeAngelo (4)

goodmorning ,

GreyICE , MariaR

, Jaack ,

Sotty7 (1)

TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

If victor gets to l-1 I'll hammer.

If he's town he doesn't read well and is a liability. If he's scum well I can actually see a sotty/hoopla/victor team and yes I'm a little crazy

ok.jpg

Man, I'm glad I stopped reading your posts if they're all like that.

p-edit: thx creature

Doesn't this just prove my point? Maria and Grey were on my wagon and TwoFace is clearly not townreading me based on the post you quoted (and plenty more in his ISO if you look there).

I didn't need to convince them because

they were already convinced

.

Did you really think I was talking about you trying to convince players at the end of the day who were already on my wagon? You seriously expect me to believe that.

Sure after GreyICE, Maria etc had voted me, there's no need to convince them. But there was a long period before that yesterday where my wagon wasn't happening and you were doing nothing to change that. It's that period where you should have been trying to make the wagon happen. I felt it was pretty clear it was that period and not the end of day I was referring to.

Let's actually remind ourselves how we got here. You started ignoring my posts after your ragewall (316). At that point I had two votes on me, yourself and TwoFace. You claimed in 1114 that the reason for your apathy yesterday was because you didn't think you could convince people to vote Victor. Yet the fact people eventually voted me shows that simply isn't true. Furthermore you couldn't have known how people were going to vote without at least trying to engage with them. There's plenty of things you could have done to help move my lynch forward (providing a compelling case for example).

Which brings me back to the rest of 1177 which you didn't bother responding to. You are supposedly so certain I'm scum you can stop bothering to read my posts. Yet when needing to make a case it comes down to the fact that you didn't think my opening post was that great and apparently I'm infuriating when I do horrible things like question you and try to get you to explain yourself.

So youre sring him for not properly pushing on you, aka his scumread?

[CloudKicker]

@jack havent actively read the guy but he calls me town when he doesnt have and gets badcred from you for that , thats towny

[CloudKicker]

doesnt have to*

[CloudKicker]

I might iso dive some people after school but seriously i realize that i shouldve took notes from the start. About sottys wagon, i just think that i am going to rereand grey and find why did she tr her then move from there

[CloudKicker]

Goodnorning was town d1, i jst thibk ppl likes to push on awkward persons et people who just like to have fun. In the same manner will i enventually be hardfosed because mafia will have to. I aint voting gm kitty cat today btw and havent read sotty all that much, i would sheep greys read here

[CloudKicker]

Intent

claim please

[CloudKicker]

@jaack i wanted a claim and i havent read the day or what post you are reffering to. I havent even actually read sotty for a while but she constantly put shade on me for not actual reason, this is exactly what mafia whos being wagoned would do : they cant include strong town/active players too much on their scumpool so they have to includes thoses who are less active and null from a town pov, she literraly never outed a singel reason why am i mafia but poe and says im scummy -> this is a scumplay imo

Now, i wasnt actually going to hammer but i wanted a claim

[CloudKicker]

what makes you think cloud is scumreading sotty?

Also this, i never said i actually scumread her but her push on me is complete bullshit and scream scum

[CloudKicker]

Also i just would like to point out that jaack pushed on her for many days/posts yet unvotes and doesnt wait for a claim, sotty wont most likely claim with a L-2 and gm is still a town read since he had the exact same thought as i did :3

[CloudKicker]

I like you gm, i like cats and i believe youre being unfarily read this game if you would like to jump on my own town wagon you can be the chauffeur

[CloudKicker]

The only thing is, its that as scum it would be a complete disaster of a play to antagonize randoms lurkings townies when they are being wagonned you know, i still want a claim mr jack

[CloudKicker]

*buddying gm the cat intensifies**



But with all seriousness, i liked gm's d1 a lot and shes literraly obviously being pushed by mafia who tries to put an agenda on her ass cause shes trolly/wierd/awk, same thing sotty is trying to put on mine or throw empty shade around with 0 substance

[CloudKicker]

Hey Cloud, why did you say earlier that you were going to sheep GreyICEs' townread on Sotty7? As far as I can see from your completed games, you never played with GreyICE and if you are just going off of him being confirmed town, then TwoFace is confirmed town as well and he was scumreading Sotty7. Why look at GreyICE's read specifically?

I'll respond to Sotty7's posts and the GM read I'm supposed to explain later.

Cause he was pretty pissed about it and its a ml, but the truth is i havent even got around to reread all the prelynch yet and youre right ill have to read into tf as well

Heres the possibilites:

Sotty is town -> she actually out terribles lines and antagonizes town for 0 reason when about to get lynched -> bad play but might be genuine if her sr on me and jack could be backed up, didnt happen yet

sotty is mafia -> Try to get me lynched and flip the wagon onto me.

Theres one thing i really despise is being unfairly fosed and i absolutely know what is my ''meta role'' or place this game, i am a lurking town easy push whos trolly and is seens like a wildcard, this is attractive to mafia

[CloudKicker]

Also depending on the flip, i dont think that the way it goes i am a good nk target, this means that eventually ill survive to a lylo situation if we keep mling ppl and ill have to be more active, when this will happen i will step up my game.

And btw sotty, i still want your claim and if you even dare to make a bad post or excuse yourself about not claiming in your few next posts, i will iso you and fuck you up if i end up sring you.

[CloudKicker]

Spoiler:

Happy enough with hoopla's post on Michel to have him as my first town read. Hoopla piggybacks off this with a slight town read as well, even though she probably would point this out as scum or town.

Cloud I have a neutral read since most of his posts have been about playing style but I'm hoping that's just because he is new.

Everyone else is pretty much nothing at this point.

Of those three I think Sotty is most likely. She had an empty vote, but at the same time added a few weak reads right afterword. Seems like someone who knew their vote was not good, so they decided to put down some content so as to not get blamed for fluff. 86 also shows more self awareness about the quality of her posts.

Of course I want to generate content, that's part of the reason I attempted to start two separate wagons (gm and rask) I won't make excuses for the quality of my posting (yeah, it was an empty vote) but I do think you're being a little harsh considering everything you listed here could also be ascribed to town posting. That said, I like your tone and for page five I've seen worst cases.

I don't want to step on Hoopla's toes because gambits are the name of her game. I find her generally hard to get a read on in the early game so I tend to sort her town and let her out herself as scum as the game draws on. It helps that I value her as an extremely strong town player and would really like to tag team on this game if she is indeed town. Because of this I found Rask's initial case and vote on Hoopla weak, but most of it could be down to a lack of experience with her which could be understandable. However, Rask's vote remains despite Hoopla's reasonable responses to his points.

I like BBT more for scum at this point. He came in with a vote on Rask to start a wagon, there were already two other players with two votes at the time Blackvoid and gm. It seems to be an attempt to sort Rask which comes quick and with no further elaboration. I would have expected more considering the history they both speak to. Feels like he started the wagon then panicked a little when it took off. I also remember BBTScum being very no nonsense cutting to the heart of the matter, were as townBBT being more open.

Unvote, Vote: BBT

Rask - What do you think of BBT now? Is my meta outdated?

I like twoface so far, I mean he hasn't done much but I don't get the feeling he is trying to hide anything from his posts.

Other scum reads, Cloud maybe? I can't decide on him. We'll put I am Innocent as a scum read for now just for lurking. Like what the hell dude?

What do you think about his back and forth with Maria when she has her vote on him asking her why she didn't "engage him"?

I'm not sure what are asking. Can you rephrase this?

In other news, I was hoping to get your take on Rask since we see eye to eye on GreyICE/BBT. I think he's the most likely partner. Can you also explain your townread on MariaR?

I'm also curious whether you think I'm missing something so commenting on my reads as a whole would be nice, especially the null reads. I think the third partner to GreyICE and Rask is in there. I just can't figure out who yet.

Reads

Town: Victor, IAI, Sotty7, TwoFace, goodmorning, Jaack, Cloud
Null: Hoopla, MariaR, Michel's slot
Scum: GreyICE, Rask

I can't link right now but posts 658 and 662 are him asking Maria why she wouldn't engage him. It feels like a push that doesn't match his behavior. Rask I have as town right now,he just started to drift into the background. Is this part of the reason you are scum reading him?

Maria is town because of her interactions with jaack and general tone feels town. There are a few reads we disagree on. I'd swap rask and two face and move jaack into the scum pile. I'd also switch Maria and cloud and hoopla is more town than null.

Why is two face town? I can take another look at rask when I get home tonight to see if anything sticks out.

@Sotty7, since you seem so sure GreyICE is scum, you are not concerned about any of the players trying to derail his wagon? As for my reads, I'll break this down by player.

You mean the same players who keep complaining about a lack of counter wagon but aren't really doing anything to generate said counter wagon? At least they have something going with the Victor wagon now I suppose even if I disagree. I just really hate the world view of "this is too easy" without really rallying anyone to any kind of flag.

Jaack: He was hypocritical but I don't think hypocrisy is scummy. What do you think about the points I made in 817?

For one you overstated the inevitability of a Jaack lynch, we can see that with hindsight. Several people were willing to move over but it never really surfaced. If we're going to talk about counter wagons, that one had the potential to explode and yet it didn't. The meta thing could be a good point, I just find his poking on Maria about why she didn't engage him to be a little disparate and it doesn't match with his "world view". I have asked him a couple of times why he hasn't engaged me and he keeps shrugging it off as if it's nothing about nothing, why is he so keen to get an answer from Maria? Doesn't add up to me.

Rask's buddying of Grey in the last page or so is really the only thing lately that has given me pause about that slot. It seemed less like an attempt to sort than an attempt to position himself to go either way. "I don't know if I should trust you" gave me the creeps. Pick a side and commit. Not enough for a scum read though.

MariaR: Really dislike the constant refrain of "if GreyICE is town, doesn't it bother anyone that there isn't a counterwagon." It seems like a twisted argument because she's using that to create a counterwagon. We could flip the question and ask why there's so much resistance to the GreyICE wagon that we've got first you, then Jaack, then Victor as counterwagons. Looks like a pathos-driven argument that's coming from someone who wants to push an agenda.

I'll give you this point. The counter wagon point holds no weight with me considering they have a band of players that could have done something about that by now. Why are you town reading Cloud?

TwoFace: The way he's pushing his reads, first Victor, now you. TwoFace being so sure that you are scum that he's close to the point of giving up looks sincere to me and his worldview of a Sotty7-based scumteam and frustration with the counterwagons makes sense.

Did you look at twoface's reason for his initial vote on me? He is voting me for my use of the word stuff. He repeated this reasoning in a recent post and it's just awful. Since then he has just sat on my wagon and thrown out more crap about the counter wagon (something you are scum reading Maria for) and done very little to attempt to read me. I've asked him for reads that aren't me and he still hasn't delivered. Scum can very easy fake anger here while wasting a vote and not moving it. There is an active counter starting now with Victor. Where is Twoface's vote? Still on me.

I could also see scum in Cloud and/or Creature

Okay we can come back to Rask later.

Alright, let's talk about MariaR. Give me more than "tone and interactions with Jaack." You said the same thing in 902 ("interactions with Jaack and general tone"). What does that really mean? You are going to have to dumb this down for me a bit because it's apparently going over my head.

There are a ton of different play styles on mafiascum and a lot of them are very different to mine and what I would consider "optimal" play. Doesn't mean their way of play is any better or worse than mine, just means I need to try and read based of how they play, not how I would want or expect them to play.

With that in mind, Maria comes across as a very fluid type of player. I haven't played with her before and I am not very good at reading this style of play which is why it took me so long to commit to a read of her. Maybe it helped that she was pushing and voting for one of my scum reads at the time Jaack. I felt like Jaack's panic to the vote was disproportionate to the pressure coming from Maria. It felt like she voted him in an attempt to see if a wagon would start there and kick something going that wasn't Grey. It didn't kick off, I would say mostly because Grey didn't move his vote. Maybe I was reading too much into this since Maria never really claimed this was her plan, but that's how it looks to me looking in.

The tone thing is mostly a gut reaction. She feels relaxed and at ease which makes me think town more than scum. There is a lot of fluff in the ISO but there are also reads. She comments about the BBT wagon, on me, on Rask. The Sable vote was pretty bad, but the Jaack vote looks good to me and the Victor push makes sense if she was town reading Grey which is what it looked like at the end of the day.

Maria -

What's your read on Cloud? You two know each other pretty well by all accounts, does he lurk as scum?

Read wise this is where I am at in order:

Town: Victor, BV,GM
Null to town: Maria, Hoopla
Null to scum: Jaack, Cloud
Scum: Rask, Creature, IAI

Jaack and cloud are a lot closer to scum than null. Maria is a lot closer to town than null. Hoopla is nicely in the middle of null and town.

As fair warning I will be gone all of the day tomorrow again. It's bad timing, but my job put me in a month training class at the last minute so I won't be able to real time respond until around 6ish CST tomorrow evening. I also have to try and sleep for real now.

SHADE SHADE SHADE NO SBUSTANCE NOTHING, ALL SHE DOES IS ASK WHY I AM LURKING AND CONSTANTLY PUT ME IN THE NULL CATEGORY SINCE THE START OF THE GAME FOR LITERRALY NO REASON, THIS IS NOT TOWN PLAY SHADE SHADE SHADE

[CloudKicker]

I feel like Sotty7 is another MariaR.

What does that even mean ?

[CloudKicker]

lol you mean ate? This is how we roll on em, MariaR is really good at ate'ing but i can read her pretty easily if shes cornered

[CloudKicker]

SHADE SHADE SHADE NO SBUSTANCE NOTHING, ALL SHE DOES IS ASK WHY I AM LURKING AND CONSTANTLY PUT ME IN THE NULL CATEGORY SINCE THE START OF THE GAME FOR LITERRALY NO REASON, THIS IS NOT TOWN PLAY SHADE SHADE SHADE

nah man

i can see where someone not used to reading newer players would nullread you

You should probably vote her so Jaack can state intent. I really want to get the claim out so we can move to the next step of figuring out whether we buy it.

Why not you?

Yo im not even a new player and sotty is experienced

[CloudKicker]

lol you mean ate? This is how we roll on em, MariaR is really good at ate'ing but i can read her pretty easily if shes cornered

ooooo What's your read on me this game then Cloudy boy

Its been a while since you sent me sum snaps, if you want me to townread you you better be a good girl

[CloudKicker]

Oh a trackerinos, can you out your other visit, results and why choo choo

[CloudKicker]

Oh well, can we wait for jaack to react before unvoting/flipping wagons?

[CloudKicker]

LOL this is how you can misunderstand everything and jump to conclusions in a nutshell. Jaack you have been wrong on me the whole game, i didnt actively read sotty content but she still kept throwing shade to me, like i evocated several times in my recent posts and you still somehow ignore all of this and 180% on your whole game scumread. You also didnt even left the vote on her for a claim nor did you comment on her claim but that you didnt visit. Depending on the flip means that i would probably be a good nk target if it flips scum and not if it flips town.

Heres how inconsistent you are :

-Jaack foses me all game for light reason, never go into details, he hardfos sotty and pushes on her
-I am showing intent on hammering sotty, asking a claim
-Jack unvote and ask me why i showed intent/scumread her
-I show why i felt like sotty is having a scumplay atm and how her reads on me makes 0 sens
-Jack then doesnt think about sotty being mafia from his firsts reads, he should actually tr me for being his top sr's sr, she even included us both in multiple scumpool
-He litterraly flip onto me 180d just because of a few posts, going back to all his reads and doesnt comment on sotty's claim more than that.

I asked sotty to claim, your scum read, and you fos me for it

[CloudKicker]

LOL this is how you can misunderstand everything and jump to conclusions in a nutshell. Jaack you have been wrong on me the whole game, i didnt actively read sotty content but she still kept throwing shade to me, like i evocated several times in my recent posts and you still somehow ignore all of this and 180% on your whole game scumread. You also didnt even left the vote on her for a claim nor did you comment on her claim but that you didnt visit. Depending on the flip means that i would probably be a good nk target if it flips scum and not if it flips town.

Heres how inconsistent you are :

-Jaack foses me all game for light reason, never go into details, he hardfos sotty and pushes on her
-I am showing intent on hammering sotty, asking a claim
-Jack unvote and ask me why i showed intent/scumread her
-I show why i felt like sotty is having a scumplay atm and how her reads on me makes 0 sens
-Jack then doesnt think about sotty being mafia from his firsts reads, he should actually tr me for being his top sr's sr, she even included us both in multiple scumpool
-He litterraly flip onto me 180d just because of a few posts, going back to all his reads and doesnt comment on sotty's claim more than that.

I asked sotty to claim, your scum read, and you fos me for it

Well, if its all a misunderstanding then you should be able to answer my questions.

First, why did you want sotty to claim if you didn't want to lynch her?

I wanted information to then evaluate if i wanted to lynch her. Sotty has been on the spotlight for a while and she got L-1 extremely fast so i wanted a claim, we both know she wouldve have to claim today anyway so nothing wrong in claiming early. I wasnt going to speedhammer regardless of her claim, if thats your question. You can disagree with my playstyle or motivations but this is exactly what happened, so take it or leave it

[CloudKicker]

On Sotty7's claim - I don't buy her night actions. It seems too much of a co-incidence to me that one of Sotty7's biggest antagonist was nightkilled and the other was tracked by her.

It seems more likely she's scum, figured out that TwoFace and Jaack were her biggest threats during the night, killed one, and rolecopped/tracked the other.

With this as an assumption, you would also essentially have to assume that victor was scum as well. Neither TwoFace nor I would have been very likely mason partners for victor (I was voting him at the end of the day and TwoFace had a pretty nasty back-and-forth with victor). If sotty was a role cop, that would mean scum had two assets to find a mason and used neither of them for that purpose. I find that hard to believe.

I guess sotty could be a scum tracker with victor as a mason, but I definitely can't see sotty as a scum role cop with victor as a mason.

I'm still concerned with cloud. It seemed like for most of the game whenever someone gave the slightest whiff that they thought he could be scum, he would immediately start scumreading them back, but 1447 seemed like a big shift away from that. My mental narrative is that I actually hit something that scumcloud knows is legitimately scummy and could stick and he shifted to damage control, but

I'm struggling with where to go further with this.

As for the Hoopla wagon and related breakdown of the sotty wagon, I'm actually feeling more confident in sotty being scum at this point then I was when I unvoted (where I was starting to doubt myself due to cloud's activities). D1, the BBT/GI wagon stalled and people unvoted on occasion, but it never collapsed at any point. The sotty wagon, meanwhile, collapsed as soon as I unvoted and started looking elsewhere. I think that points to some scum bussing but looking for an easy out. There's a lot of 'not totally buying that claim but whatever' going around as well which I think feeds into that theory as well. As for hoopla herself

I think lynching sotty is probably our best option at this point. There's been too much doubtcasting on sotty's claim to make it a neccessary target for scum N2 if she is town. Double that if we don't lynch scum today.

VOTE: Sotty7

maybe ure just wrong and im town you know. As for the hoopla shes L-1 and should claim

[CloudKicker]

Not voting gm or tracker claim today just so you guys know. VOTE: jaack

[CloudKicker]

Also if jack is scum sotty is town and vice versa

[CloudKicker]

And its funny how sotty seemingly defends me when i showed intent to lynch her, thats either scum buddying me or pr who sees town who isnt after a quicklynch

[CloudKicker]

TOWNLORDS WHO I TRUST TO WIN THIS GAME

Victor:

I buy Victor's Mason claim as he claimed it when he didn't have to and I was townreading him before anyways, claim or not.

IAI:

I still think IAI is town for the way he put his neck on the line to lynch GreyICE despite the arguments to the contrary. They don't address the fact that it was D1 and IAI had several other options if he was scum and wanted to look pro-town.

Jaack:

The Jaack wagon is horrible. What the heck are you guys doing? My townread on Jaack from D1 still holds and nothing he's done today has reduced that. He went after Sotty7 which seems consistent with the rest of his play. I think he's tunneling a bit given there are scum outside of Sotty7 but I understand why he wants his biggest scumread dead. I don't get how Rask started thinking "he feels fake to me now" when nothing of Jaack's demeanor, pushes, or activity level has changed.

goodmorning:

Despite not understanding GM's play at times, I think she's town. One of the biggest tells I've noticed was when she told Sotty7 that she doesn't want to argue with good players when she suspects them. It seemed like such a bizarre thing for scum to say. If GM was scum and scared of Sotty7 beating her in an argument, couldn't she simply attack weaker players? Stuff I wrote in 323 about her early play still apply.

Creature:

I'm pretty confident he's town now because he's seeing the game in a very similar way to me. I expand on 1314 on him and his predecessor.

TOWNIE BUT A TINGE OF PARAN

OIA:

Cloud:

I'm a little more murky on Cloud but I still think what I said in 325 applies. I like his reaction to that which was to tell me he was doing pro-town things and not to townread him for a slip. He also talks about how great he is as scum which tends to just put people on their guards so I think he probably wouldn't do it as scum. But I think of all townreads, this one is the shakiest.

FUTURE SCUM BLOC MEMBERS WHO WILL SERVE AS THE BACKBONE (ALONG WITH ME) IN DEMOLISHING THE TOWN:

Sotty7:

Sotty7 is a given. The recent attack on Creature is simply attacking who she perceives as the weakest vote on her wagon. Creature's stances and positions are amazingly consistent and she just ignored that because he jumped onto two wagons. Guess what, both wagons that Creature jumped on (Sotty7 and Hoopla) were on people he was scumreading. It's not like he's randomly jumping on wagons.

Hoopla:

All of Hoopla's pushes today are bad. GM is town as is Jaack. Hoopla's reason for voting GM is literally "she and TwoFace defended me against Victor and there's gotta be one scum there. TwoFace was town so GM is scum." That's so lame and if she actually believed what she was saying to Victor, she shouldn't find it surprising that people agreed with her. Then there's the Jaack push. No reasoning but I'll assume from D1 that she just thought Jaack was flying under the radar. I pointed out that this is Jaack's normal play and she hopped off because me and TwoFace were defending him. But now TwoFace is dead leaving her clear to push Jaack.

Rask:

Rask's case on GM harped on way too much about "anti-town" stuff like GM not responding and posting reads. But then if he was so sure that he went to absurd lengths to write a wall of text about her, how did he so easily switch to Sotty7 instead of arguing that Sotty7 was a counterwagon to GM? I don't think he actually believes his GM-case and there were some points where I felt he was parroting Victor (for example, saying that GM is refusing to read Victor's posts which I know is a sore point for Victor).

MariaR:

MariaR's scumreads are me and Jaack which is just wtf. She's just doing everything that is the opposite of what I'm doing. There's also the fact that the Victor wagon formed from people disgruntled with the GreyICE lynch and were part of the Sotty7 wagon. Who hated the GreyICE lynch, was never on the Sotty7 wagon but on the Victor wagon? MariaR.

If i was scum id be higher

[CloudKicker]

Votecount 2.07

Hoopla (4)

goodmorning , I Am Innocent , Creature , BlackVoid L-2 ,

Jaack (3)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , Hoopla ,

Creature (2)

VictorDeAngelo , Sotty7 ,

Sotty7 (1)

Jaack ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

VictorDeAngelo, goodmorning, Jaack, I Am Innocent have been prodded.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

I voted jack 1483

[CloudKicker]

Jaack is town. Why not hop over to the Hoopla wagon?

His flip flop with sotty and me was inconsistent af

[CloudKicker]

I also think that hoopla voting alone on gm (who isnt getting lynched) isnt a good play as scum when youre being heavily fosed

[CloudKicker]

Rask and Cloud are my 2 biggest tr's and I'm gonna assume there's 3 scum let's just SAY hoopia is scum and jaack is town I feel like scum would just easily go onto this wagon I already feel like scum are on the Hoopia wagon that's why it isn't hammered

You tr me becausei voted jack and jack foses me ?

[CloudKicker]

Rask and Cloud are my 2 biggest tr's and I'm gonna assume there's 3 scum let's just SAY hoopia is scum and jaack is town I feel like scum would just easily go onto this wagon I already feel like scum are on the Hoopia wagon that's why it isn't hammered

You tr me becausei voted jack and jack foses me ?

I tr you because if you were mafia I'd find out in 3 posts joey

LOL fuck off you wouldnt, i can play you about half the games

[CloudKicker]

@gm, he was voting you before flipping to jack

[CloudKicker]

''Then he votes me in 1483, right after maria does, later justifying it with my 'inconsistency' (1509). The general feeling I get is that when I was pushing him he was trying to make my suspicion go away, but now that I'm a viable lynch option he's totally willing to jump on that.''

Youre not wrong in that i did appeal to you, you still didnt come around and now i want you to claim, saying iam the one who staled the sotty's wagon by not putter her on L-1 when YOU unvoted is being hypocrite and flawed logic boi

[CloudKicker]

And consistency is a town leaning trait for the record

[CloudKicker]

Youre not wrong in that i did appeal to you, you still didnt come around and now i want you to claim, saying iam the one who staled the sotty's wagon by not putter her on L-1 when YOU unvoted is being hypocrite and flawed logic boi

It's not flawed logic. You say youwanted a claim from sotty. With her at L-2 at the time, why didn't you vote her?

Also, explain my scum motivation for inviting sotty, since you claim my inconsistency is why you are voting me.

It was L-1, you unvoted, i just didnt vote her to reput her at L-1 and she claimed anyway so idk whats your problem

[CloudKicker]

Posting so i dont get prodded. Will read last 2-3 pages and reposttt

[CloudKicker]

I have no idea how you guys play in forum mafia but lynching the pr claim whatever you personal reads on the slot is completly suboptimal. A fake claim that lives overnight WILL EASILY makes themselves pretty fucking obvious the day after -> i dont even give a shit tbh if sotty is mafia, she very could well be with how bad her reads were this game, i still think a sotty wagon is completly scum motivated.

now, those reads are based mainly on my feeling of the last 4-5 pages since we have more content:

>I dont understand for 1 second the complete hardpush from maria onto bv, i dont get non of it and her hard defend of sotty is wierd
>Gm still town
>I just played a town game with rask and she was my top tr from the first pages of the game, i would say shes a very very easy town to read imo and this just doesnt deliver this game. I even got pushed pretty much only by jaack this game, someone she voted, and when she comes back from afking she ends up fosing her fos's fos, makes 0 sens to me at this stage of the game. IMO, shes mafia or pr and acting weird as fuck because of it, this is her vt play. i also dont give a shit about what you think about outing pr reads, it does help me when i reread myself
>Still think bv is town, slight paranoia. If that guy flips scum then most of my reads would ends up in the trash
>Sotty is prob scum mafia, but we should give her 1 night. EVEN IF SHE ENDS UP MAFIA THERES STILL 2 SCUM OUTSIDE HER, i prefer to lynch outside to get more infos with her tracks/her flip than to just ends up lynching track cause she was heavily fosed prior or her claim and got easily wagoned, we dont lynch pr on em, we poe outside
>Rask further push on sotty proves my point, Jaack same but jack might actually be town, i liked some of his last post and his fos on me is better than sotty's, even if its inconsistent and wrong.
>Creature ?? leaning town
>i still think iai could be scum here, we need more content
>i never understood hoop wagon
>victor prob mason


Also a general feeling that some people almost refuse to out a read on raks, i havent seen many people reads her imo ? maybe thats just me being not so active. I also feel like i get called loltown or trolltown, or people outing excuses to not read me ? Like that my palystyle is weird etc, thats just look completly scummy to me, this is a textbook mafia way to just keep a weak slot shades open and ready for a wagon/flip anything (me being inactive and new). And masons + track seems like nothing imo, only thing rask said that was on point

UNVOTE: jack

VOTE: rask <- havent read her until now, call it omgus, its mosly that i read more the ppl who ends up pushing on me yk, cuz i know my place on the table and i would tote push on me

[CloudKicker]

This isnt her vt play*

[CloudKicker]

Cloud are you voting Rask because she voted you and that's it?

Why dont you just actually read my posts before asking questions and clogging up the thread?

[CloudKicker]

You guys are seriously fucking morons

[CloudKicker]

@bv insteand of overjustifying your vote on a pr claim, as if you knew she would flip track, why dont you just try to find the 2 other mafia if youre right on sotty? This pr lynch is complete garbage suboptimal trash play

[CloudKicker]

Cloud for once I agree with you this is new

Nah, you tr her, i just think lynching outisde a fucking beliavable setup-wise claim is non-sens. Mafia is likely using town's fos on town to just get this lynch, grey also hard tr sotty if i remember

[CloudKicker]

i just think not lynching outside a fucking...**

[CloudKicker]

I made a big ass post about rask and she just ignored me and didnt project town to me even once in our exchange, shes a way better lynch

[CloudKicker]

Cloud are you voting Rask because she voted you and that's it?

What do

you

think of Rask? You started off D2 by voting him. Did you change your mind on him?

Nope, I still think he is scum. I have zero traction right now so anything I do falls on deaf ears.

Did anyone play Dragon Age mafia btw?

I played the actual game, does that count?

So what changed between these posts?

About 500 game posts and Hoopla becoming a legit lynch option. Come IAI, that's just lazy.

And you sotty, i dont want to be a dick to you but you should really fucking step up your game if ur real, like now

[CloudKicker]

Btw if sotty is town gm is cleared for many reasons

[CloudKicker]

@bv insteand of overjustifying your vote on a pr claim, as if you knew she would flip track, why dont you just try to find the 2 other mafia if youre right on sotty? This pr lynch is complete garbage suboptimal trash play

If I could lynch Rask or MariaR, I'd do it but nobody wants to go there. Hoopla is another option so that's where I pushed until I didn't feel confident in her flipping scum.

You are voting Rask and Sotty7 is either right or committed to bussing. That's still just three votes. Maybe Creature is four. There's heavy opposition from GM, Hoopla, Jaack. Victor and IAI don't seem enthused about it as well.

As for MariaR, no one's really paying attention to anything I say about her. So I figured, screw the PR claim and let me just vote whoever I think is most

likely

to flip red. I guess Hoopla is still a possibility. It wasn't an easy choice between her and Sotty7. I haven't ruled out getting back on her. I really want to hear from Victor's replacement as that slot is a pretty strong townread. I might switch over to work with them.

All this content seems like ure just justifying your lazy vote, we have 2 days and sotty isnt the lynch like creature said, i want more infos/her nightkilled/her checks/massclaims.

[CloudKicker]

I made a big ass post about rask and she just ignored me and didnt project town to me even once in our exchange, shes a way better lynch

You're wrong the only good lynches are Creature Jack and BV with a gm lynch if we have to

You kinda ignored me all game because you cant even read me correctly, then outed this is the first time you agree with me, implying you believe the content i made this game wasnt good enough for you to agree, your reads sucks this game and you should get over it, we have totally differents reason for not lynching sotty and gm is obvious town since d1, he should even be more of a townread the way you tr sotty.

Im pretty sure creature is town for his rationale, the mafia is outside

[CloudKicker]

This is complete bullshit, i dot give a shit that ou srd her, you dont lynch pr the day they claimed and uncced, i gtg will be there tonigh if not too drunk

[CloudKicker]

Mo one on this table would dare have the balls to hard defend sotty as scum here so close to the deadline @ bv, if so then the mafias are a farce and shouldve been easy to find in the first place. Thr actual lack of resistence but from town (at least me) and no one flipping even tho she claimed pr is a tell that the wagon is cancer

[CloudKicker]

"Hey bv, remember 1843 when i appealed to you as town before you ego lazy ego lynch the sole investigative claim in the game? That was totally dope lol"

[CloudKicker]

I made 2-3 on rask case, still voting her and shes voting sotty, maybe sotty is track and rask is obv scum?????

[CloudKicker]

??????? Maybe just maybe mafia is voting travker and is having town in the palm of their hands ??????? Maybe rask just scumtold > she wants to unvote sotty to lynch sottys whiteknight??? How does that even remotely make any sens, is she doesnt want aotty cuz she start to think shes pr, why would ahe want to lynch someone with the same read/mindset ???

[CloudKicker]

What about grey hard tr on sotty? What about her just making a stupid track? You are ready to be the 5-6th vote on a pr claim d2 and you dont take into consideration at the bery least 2 towns reads plus maria is town if sotty is town imo, so at best 3 towns? Maybe we could just test the shit out of her, no one even proposed it

[CloudKicker]

I wanted a flip like a week ago, this is getting really annoying now.

Selfing there would be helpful rask, i know ure scum and ure ignoring me blatantly

[CloudKicker]

tf that flip, this is beyond an obvious bus. The sole reason why would mafia get lynched as uncced pr claim is because they got bussed for towncred
now considering the flip im just going to clear jack here

I skimmed troughout the few pages and here some thoughts -> mafia bussed, i defended my opinion on something NAI (not lynching prs the day they claim) and just like on em, i will 100% get pushed on that by mafia because i am an obvious bait, so is maria since we both defended scum, so i expected fully to be pushed by scum today like its happening rn

Vc to be posted eventually, but it was a lynch.

Votecount 1.Final

GreyICE (7)

Sotty7 , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Creature , Raskolnikov LYNCH!,

VictorDeAngelo (4)

goodmorning , GreyICE , MariaR , Jaack ,

Sotty7 (1)

TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

Heres the vote d1, theres at the very very least 1 mafia voting with sotty on that wagon, would be silly to have 6 towns lynch town there and 2 mafia outside. Vic/IAI are clear, leaves hoop/rask/crea/BV. Outside that wagon is maria -> if maria was mafia with sotty she probably wouldve just voted with sotty there since if i remember, sotty was possibly getting lynched d1? So maria is non-team telling for d1 with sotty and shes most likely town just for that and her stance yday -> grey is cleard, thats leaves goodmorning imho outside the wagon that looks townish too, or at least might be the mafia outside the wagon?, twoface cleared and myself who didnt vote, i was away but i showed intent to hammer for a claim, just like i did with sotty.

I think Arona, BV, creature, and jaack could and should just form a townbloc and lynch everything else. 4/4 excluding me, 4/5 including me.

Imho jaack and arona are the clear in those 4, BV's votes on sotty is pretty darn weird and has been troughout the whole game, i will develop on that eventually. Creature looks good for d1 and votes but he might get po'ed

Not to disrail what's going on here with Maria et al, but I think Cloud is the right lynch today.

His actions surrounding sotty's claim are highly suspect. He gives intent to hammer her, but backtracks after I unvote and start questioning him about his vote, saying he never really intended to hammer her. Then sotty comes in and claims anyway? At L-2? It feels like that was a scum scheme gone awry. Cloud didn't vote for Sotty to put her back at L-1 in case I had a twitchy trigger finger and hammered in spite of her claim.

I was pretty confused by that turn of the events, but it makes more sense after the end of D2 when cloud basically hard defended sotty on the virtue of her claim alone.

VOTE: CloudKicker

I'm more willing to lynch Maria today than I was D2, primarily because she was the only non-sotty person who brought up the idea that the twoface kill framed sotty. Could have been a scum talking point, since the twoface nk was not a traditional choice with a claimed mason out there. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching her, but my priority is cloud. It's possible she's been subverting site meta by hardtownreading her partners or it's possible she's just been wrong about everything.

Jaack, what i did with sotty i did the same with grey, i asked for claim and showed intent, ure literraly the town leadin the ml while mafia bused

Btw now that I can talk about this
not willing to lynch Cloud but my townread on him has gone down after modding a mini normal and watching his scum game.

Sonia, thats so fucking bullshit and i actually think this is scummy, 2 days ago you whined to me when i fear blitzed you on ml, i am good scum but dont do that i should be easy to read this game, you know i dont hardbuddy

I don't think it can be cloud+maria together, given their early talk. Cloud+GM or cloud+hoopla fit on first glance, though.

Bad read, this is the obvious mafia play where they pick the 2 towns who defend mafia, say they cant be a team so they lynch one, then try to make town believe that because of that flip, then the other should be mafia. The sotty lynch is the most obvious bus i have seen in a while, the wagon had resistance but from maria and shes most likely town from meta + d1 votes and so on and im town too. Mafia pushing on the townies who didnt want to lynch pr is obvious here.

Actually, I assumed you would die as well.

But now I think IAI was probably killed for mason-slipping at the beginning of yesterday.

This is mafia self-referencing the reason why they killed IAI, i doubt anyone had any idea why IAI got killed nor did anyone made any comment on that, this is rask scum game btw.

Heres what i think, i am probably going to get mled here and jaack/other mason will die. Maria might be mled tomorow as well which is imo, how we are going to lose this game.

@BV : your push on sotty, while constant, you still showed intent to lynch outside many many times and you seemed to always be in the end-ish of the wagons, aka 2-3 last votes and, maybe im wrong, dont remembe ryou putting her on L-1 ? if its the case then please quote, i will reread anyway. Rask did hammer grey d1 but she also tried to flip the sotty's wagon to hoop,gm and myself in about 2 pages spawn which is extremely scummy, all she did at the end of the day was ask for a flip, this is not town whos afraid to lynch pr, this is mafia whos bored that their partner is getting lynched or something like that. Rask is an extremely easy read, like i said many times and she can read me pretty darn well too, yet she voted me and never doubted herself when im town, which is another scumtell imo. This is 100% rask scum game.

So on the wagon d1, rask is mafia, and i bet last mafia is in hoop/bv/creature. Bv should be town but i am paranoid. Gm is town over hoop here, i think its rask + hoop/bv/creature.

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: rask[/v|

[CloudKicker]

VOTE: Rask

[CloudKicker]

Hello friends!

Well, that's a great flip for us. I feel like the Sotty flip pretty much ensures BlackVoid is town, to the point that any suspicion of him borders on conspiracy theory and I'd be willing to put the game on the line on him being town. Given Jack also looks quite now from that flip, I just don't see BlackVoid taking the line of derailing a town-town wagon battle between Jack/myself and redirecting it onto scum. There were plenty of ways to look good from your positions with regards to mine/Jack's wagon battle, but helping derail it onto scum well you have two mislynches available is some hardcore turbo-bussing that unnecessarily opens the game up for town.

You don't see it every game, but this could very well be the fabled all-town powerwagon that nailed Sotty. The only question mark I have is Raskolnikov, but at this stage I'd rather lynch off the wagon, as I don't think scum double-bussed Sotty and think there's 1-2 scum off the wagon.

Maria's hard defenses of Sotty are a creative stance to take as scum and I'm not sure how adept and intune she is with current meta to make this play (it seems like nobody is too suspicious of her atm), and I'm inclined to believe she's the type that would probably find an opening to bus when the writing was on the wall for Sotty.

goodmorning working furiously to start counterwagons while the Sotty wagon is building (and largely ignoring it and not talking about it until asked) seems suspicious on the surface, and I hesitate to use this line of logic, but it's almost too obvious and I'd her to be more conscious of her reactions during that period of time. And if I'm scum and I'm seeing Sotty going down, I'm definitely not going to play the way goodmorning did - it just looks really fishy pushing unsupported counterwagons while the rest of the town lynches scum. I don't know, I might have to revisit that one later, but that's my initial impression.

Today I'm probably going to lynch between Creature and Cloudkicker. I want to do more of a reread before I vote, so more to come soon. This post gave me the heebie-jeebies though, and makes Cloud my top suspect atm:

And you sotty, i dont want to be a dick to you but you should really fucking step up your game if ur real, like now

"goddamn it Sotty, we really can't afford you to get lynched right now, step up your game so I don't have to suspect your claim more any more"

Nah, i dont maria. And the comment on hoop is probably a fake townslip considering theres day chat, hoop/creature doesnt look like a team, if hoop is scum its most likely with outside aka rask wink wink

[CloudKicker]

And just want to clarify, mafia and i are the obvious pushes today, the lack of content on maria is weird since i expected us both to be foses -> like i said, rask saying that we arent a team is just scumclaiming imo, same for the guy who said that when i flip town he would hardfos maria, those both are scumlines

[CloudKicker]

im not claiming, i dont really give ashit about the massclaim thingy, im tote town and this is completly stupid. @jack im obvious a good lynch candidate, maybe cause i hard defended scum? while everyone forget that idid based on mechanics and not reads like maria did

[CloudKicker]

@ jacck because my scumgame is to hard defend the most pushed players for 2 day straight, who was completly going to get lynched if not cleared that game, just because being lynched ? i was pretty much apathetic troughout the whole game about her, she outed severals 4+ posts trhowing shit shade on me for the sake of it, included me in almost all her scupool yet not one even try to red the interactions with sotty and i, everyone is poe'ing to me just cause i defend her, i still think the lynch was a bad idea and it only went through cause scum pushed it and knew the flip. No one is defending me in this game, no one is trying to actually read sotty/me. gg 180 no scope strat to hard defend scum when i was virtually townread

[CloudKicker]

just to get lynched*

[CloudKicker]

And rask actually starting to towntell a bit

[CloudKicker]

@Cloud, you recognize that you are a universal scumread so if you want to be helpful, go ahead and claim. We can certainly get more votes on you if needed but if you are town here, it'll be much more expedient to just speed up the process.

I wont claim and im not scumread, im getting poe'd incorrectly because mafia bussed, jaack do sr me but hes wrong

[CloudKicker]

You are not getting incorrectly POE'd. You said you'd sheep GreyICE's read on Sotty7. Why would you do that? Just because GreyICE put in work? Well then GreyICE was hard-townreading Rask as well. That didn't seem to deter you from pushing him. So, GreyICE's read only applies to Sotty7? Given she was scum and he wrongly read her as town, that's incredibly convenient.

Then there's your argument that GreyICE was confirmed town and since a confirmed town was telling us Sotty7 was town, we should listen. Well BBT and TwoFace are confirmed town as well and they were both saying Sotty7 was scum. TwoFace was in fact very, very certain about it. Why ignore them and selectively choose to sheep GreyICE's read? You've never played with him before. Is it solely because he described himself as an excellent player? Guess what, so did you and more confident players sheep less. You claimed your reads are top notch. You didn't deliver.

I said i would, i didnt even actually reread too much into it and both my sotty and rask reads are mine, not greys or anyone else. My reads are great but im still adapting myself to this site and how its played, lynching that pr claim was completely suboptimal cause we wouldve got more infos with the nights and sottys alive, if she was town that is <- that opinion is also a read, and lynching outside would've been better, you dont lynch people that is going to confirm themselves as possibles scum or town the night after on ml.

[CloudKicker]

Yea ure right, i dont really know why i dismissed it, most likely because i didnt think twoface reads was as hard as grey and maybe because a trs is stronger than a sr in my eyes, also grey made a big scene off of it and got lynched. I think that when ure about to get lynched you can have better reads when universially townread or outside wagons, you can see when ppl pushes on you inccorectly and what is a towntell, like rask towntelling a bit earlier is an exemple of that

[CloudKicker]

@rask not claiming yet

[CloudKicker]

@ ima claim pr with an affix for now, i dont want to full claim as of yet cause im gathering read, i will fully claim with reasonable time before deadline i promise

[CloudKicker]

and theres a very obvious reason why i am not claiming

[CloudKicker]

so please unvote

[CloudKicker]

anyone quickhammering me after that claim should be considered a scumclaim

[CloudKicker]

Sorry man, not good enough. I want to see a specific claim. You were quite intent on making anyone who reached L-1 claim. We can't just give you special treatment here and let you off with a vague "PR claim."

Not how i play, i play for my reads not anyone else

[CloudKicker]

And the nexts day will help town a lot so no reason rushing it

[CloudKicker]

I would like also anyone voting me + the guy who showed intent to describe why am i the best lynch atm (jaack dont need to)

[CloudKicker]

@gm

Oh a trackerinos, can you out your other visit, results and why choo choo

[CloudKicker]

BV is the only one voting me who didnt unvote after my claim, reminder if i ever flip

[CloudKicker]

The sentence ppl scumread me on was my thinking that sotty was getting lynched as pr for bad play, i was appealing to pr!sotty

[CloudKicker]

I would like also anyone voting me + the guy who showed intent to describe why am i the best lynch atm (jaack dont need to)

Claim your full role. The benefit everyone else gets in trying to figure out the setup outweighs any benefit you believe you're facilitating.

Nope, i wont full claim yet idc

[CloudKicker]

The sentence ppl scumread me on was my thinking that sotty was getting lynched as pr for bad play, i was appealing to pr!sotty

Except as a PR, with a claimed Mason, you should be

less

likely to buy Sotty7's PR claim, not more.

I dont even know the setup specs and apparently my role is considered weak-ish

[CloudKicker]

By setup specs i mean i have very little knowledge and meta about forum mafia

[CloudKicker]

I crumbed my role too btw and my whole d2 was sort of a soft

[CloudKicker]

Except as a PR, with a claimed Mason, you should be less likely to buy Sotty7's PR claim, not more.

Eh, that's a perspective for those in tune with mafiascum balance ideals. Cloud's an EM player where everyone in the game including the mod probably gets a PR -- and also explains why he didn't want to lynch Sotty based purely on because she claimed Tracker.

On EM not everyone gets a pr but everyones knows the setup, so its really easy to spot a fake pr claim and to test it out in the night, this is mostly how its played in em and i think it wouldve been optimal here even tho she was scum, the mechanics behind my train of thought is still imo optimal, lynching outside and hitting scum + 1 more day to get interactions with a fake pr is invaluable for town imho. You are also right about me not wanting to lynch sotty purely based on the claim

[CloudKicker]

I crumbed my role too btw and my whole d2 was sort of a soft

I would look for it, but that involves reading your posts again sooooo.....

...just tell us.

The reason why i am not claiming is because i want more reads based on who pushes on me and for what, all this infos that im trying to get by non-claiming happens if the town pauses until i claim you know

[CloudKicker]

@gm i want to understand why, it will help me get reads.

[CloudKicker]

Funnily enough i completly forgot about the game, havent read past 2-3 pages and i dont have time tonight either so ill try to reread everything + input tomorow

[CloudKicker]

Funnily enough i completly forgot about the game, havent read past 2-3 pages and i dont have time tonight either so ill try to reread everything + input tomorow

[CloudKicker]

Vc to be posted eventually, but it was a lynch.

Votecount 1.Final

GreyICE (7)

Sotty7 , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Creature , Raskolnikov LYNCH!,

VictorDeAngelo (4)

goodmorning , GreyICE , MariaR , Jaack ,

Sotty7 (1)

TwoFace ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day one deadline is Thursday November 3, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-03 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

Votecount 2.Final

Raskolnikov (1)

CloudKicker ,

Hoopla (1)

Creature ,

Jaack (2)

Sotty7 , MariaR ,

I Am Innocent (1)

goodmorning ,

Sotty7 (6)

Jaack , Hoopla , BlackVoid , Raskolnikov , I Am Innocent , aronagrundy LYNCH! ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

Those 2 votes count + some fact that i am going to use to make my poe for the game, here it is. All the reads i will out are based on those ''facts'' that i am fairly certain of

-Victor/sub is clear and town mason.
-Jaack should be town here with the d1 and interactions, so ill mark him as town
-Hoop claimed VT

Vote 1.0 On grey that arent clear : Hoop BV Creature Rask
Vote 1.0 outside on the cw Victor that arent clear (another town) : GM, MariaR

Vote 2.0 On Sotty that arent clear : Hoop BV Rask
Vote 2.0 outside and scattered : GM (voting mason), CK (voting rask), MariaR (voting with mafia on Jaack who should be town), Creature (votting Hoop)

The actual scumpool is Jaack MariaR Creature BV Rask GM, if jaack is town its 2 [Maria Crea BV Rask GM]

Heres something that im fairly certain of too, the only resistance on sotty was mariar outside myself, meaning i believe that mafia bussed sotty at least once. She was heavily fosed for 2 days and she was going down, i dont see 1 mafia hard defending her (Mariar) + 1 coasting the lynch, or 2 coasting, it just makes no sens to me considering Sottys play and how the day happened.

So imho, if MariaR is town, at the very least 1 mafia bussed imo, that is -> Hoop BV Crea Rask.
Another read i have is that MariaR and BV are just not a team imho, they can be both scum this game. MariaR wouldnt continually pushed BV whos in a somewhat townread position rn (at least by the clears), no reason to discredit your partner on ml either, so -> BV and MariaR not 2mafias.

Now, if mariaR is mafia -> BV should be town and vice versa

Now heres my personally reads

I do think mariar should be town if she didnt completly hard buddied a scum partner who was tote getting lynched, if she did then the game should be easy with her scum flip but i personally believe that her play from d2 was town and that she actually believe sotty was town. Her votes counts also doesnt reflect scum intention, shes also starting to towntell recently and BV outed several horrible lines and isnt being consistent in his townyness.

I also do think that GM should be town here, imo his d1 tone was on point, i liked a lot of his posts and his voting pattern just looks reckless af and i dont see mafia coasting with those votes all that much, theres also the IAI vote considering mafia already picked mason read the guy

Thats leaves Crea Rask BV Hoop

Crea just unvoted on me which is imo fairly towny, he also townread me for the entire game and other stuff but hes somewhat hard to read since low infos, he also doesnt look like hes with rask for the meta read out of the blue

Rask scumtold a bunch of times but also towntold recently. I personnaly do not believe shes the same as the town game we both played recently for one bit. Also creature outing the very same kind of meta read i had on her should be enough for me to tr him because we had about the same read. I do think shes scum and her GM push is bad

Hoop idk, have to reread. BV had flip floping reads on him for a while and i dont know how to read that if BV is scum. He also corrected BV on stuff that were wrong and outed good lines

BV towntold early on but made various terrible posts later on and had inconsistent logic on his own play, also hes pushing on mariar when i do think shes town.

My stance atm is

Crea/rask not a team
Maria/BV not a team (pretty fucking sure)
Hoop/BV not a team

Rask is mafia, Mariar is town, Gm is town
Bv is mafia over hoop for recent play

[CloudKicker]

@ everyone, yall should actually try to drop old reads and work with the new stuff, because d1 play is different then when theres flip and other stuff, like Bv actually started to somewhat scumtell imo

[CloudKicker]

Someone who's played with GM before - can you comment on the general accuracy of her reads? If she's normally accurate as town and doesn't bus as scum, having bad reads counts against her. If she's normally inaccurate as town, it isn't as telling. Accuracy is subjective but I'm just looking for opinions.

Post like this are coasty and gives no content, hes projecting trying to game solve when hes doing nothing

[CloudKicker]

Joey wtf are you on I've never seen you try this hard before

you remember when i got lynched by soda as doc ? yea no

[CloudKicker]

It's kind of hard to game-solve without looking like I'm game-solving. I should learn how to do it though.

More like it felt fake af and maybe you should try to unvoted if you want any credibility

[CloudKicker]

Yes she was inevitable because scum bussed

[CloudKicker]

I am not claiming ever even with intent until its 2 days before the deadline. Hammering me here should be considered a full scumclaim and this wont change, i wont claim because theres a very fine reason that i dont want to, its better for town if i dont

[CloudKicker]

Like i said, not claiming yet, if clear wants a hardclaim he has to ask me directly, bv is obviously scumtelling atm VOTE: BV

[CloudKicker]

Like if anyone believe it would slowroll the fuck out of my claim as mafia while bieng L-1 for roughly 5 pages, yea thats not my scumplay this is like literarily the first time i flip pr in forum mafia (that are finished so i dont get moddkilled lel) so i wont go down without a fight. Id also would like to say that despite this isnt going the way i want, i appreciate this game a lot im still not sure on my scumteam

[CloudKicker]

Apples are the townies that trs eachothers, oranges are mafia who are tred by clears and who is slowly but surely going to get rekt

[CloudKicker]

One thing you need to realize is that we have a limited number of mislynches (three) before we lose. I'm asking you to please not force us to waste one on you. If you are a PR, you should be one of the clears. One of the people we POE out so our lynches are more accurate. Getting lynched is the worst outcome. Claiming is not the end of the world. You've been happy to declare intent on anyone that's at L-1. There is no way you are getting away without claiming. Please claim ASAP.

Lo. He demanded I claim when I was at L-2 yesterday. This delaying garbage is a scum tactic to inhibit town discussion. Cloud knows we aren't going anywhere without his claim. He's not even trying to discuss his reads anymore - just delaying.

Not true, i outed several read like yesteday late at night. You guy dont understand why i am not claiming because you dont know my role and cant understand that, theres still 1 week left and theres no need to rush my claim

[CloudKicker]

Also its funny that everyone i actually slightly to townread does have hammer on me and no one made up a bad excuse, like the agenda BV/rask are pushing to hammer me

[CloudKicker]

Look, here's the deal. I'm not even very confident that you are scum. If you are town, I just want you to claim so I can assess it and move on to actual scum.

What you are doing is incredibly anti-town. My vote isn't going away until you claim. Unvoting you at this point would be very, very poor play. This is the ideal scenario you are envisioning:

You get run up to L-1 and multiple people ask for a claim.

Your response: Nope, not claiming.

Town's response: Oh okay, that's fine then. We're good.

That's not how it works on any forum I've played at. I haven't played on Epic Mafia so I can't speak for how it's done there. Asking you for a claim is not scumtelling.

One thing you need to realize is that we have a limited number of mislynches (three) before we lose. I'm asking you to please not force us to waste one on you. If you are a PR, you should be one of the clears. One of the people we POE out so our lynches are more accurate. Getting lynched is the worst outcome. Claiming is not the end of the world. You've been happy to declare intent on anyone that's at L-1. There is no way you are getting away without claiming. Please claim ASAP.

Like i said, not claiming yet, if clear wants a hardclaim he has to ask me directly

He has:

anyway, I would also be down for getting cloud to claim.

VOTE: cloud

Not gonna lie, i dont really care about how forum mafia is played, imo im playing really optimally here for my wincon so if ure town you should seriously drop off my dick and try to trust me a bit here because your kind of push is exactly how i assume scum would act yknow, pushing pr and trying to discredit the way i am play as to let scum get your ''towncred'' to hammer me.

[CloudKicker]

at this point I kinda dont want to claim just to spite you lmao

[CloudKicker]

We can make a deal, i claim my role not my affix

[CloudKicker]

Maybe you should start to think why i dont want to claim?

[CloudKicker]

ding ding ding

[CloudKicker]

BV wants to ego lynch me cause hes pissed i dont want to claim with 9 ish days left

[CloudKicker]

@BV im pretty sure appealing to get me hammered when ure not convinced that i am scum, by your own words, is even more anti town than to not claim a role

[CloudKicker]

lol @ BV

[CloudKicker]

BV you realize that i am town and just cause i dont abide by the meta doesnt make me mafia, i dont need last minute scrambles to win as scum, i wouldve claimed already and faked a check or something

[CloudKicker]

Then im glad you dont have hammer on me !!

[CloudKicker]

The way ure reacting reminds my of my lil sister and its too funny just to give you what you wants, i was typing my claim post like 5 min ago but trashed it lmao