Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Jaack]

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's still a gap in logic there though. When/why does if -> is?

It doesn't. It's very possible that there were no scum on that wagon, although I think that it's more likely that there were. I just didn't see the need to fluff everything up with conditionals, particularly when my though process arrived at what I think is likely scum.

[Raskolnikov]

While you're here, Rask:

I got a little lost while interrogating Maria. You seem to know her well -- what do you make of her this game? What's her scum meta like?

The way to read maria is to take your normal read and then assume the opposite.

No but I don't really want to share this one, I think I have a tell or two but I'm not sure myself if it's accurate yet.
Our last game I was trying to use it, without it I'd have scumread her more but because of the tell I had her at nullscum and lower priority than my other leads. But I died before I really made up my mind on her. She was town after all but it wasn't that conclusive a test.

Feel free to do research of your own though, that'd probably be interesting for me to read and compare at least (2 things - 1. her alt is xsonianevermindx with extra games/sample size, 2. she plays with people she knows from epicmafia, which makes her more relaxed/joking in some games, do not confuse that with an alignment tell).

[Hoopla]

I don't know whats wrong with me I'm reading but my head is just buzzing all the words are getting scrambled and I prob can't remember what was said on the last page
Someone ask me some questions please

What's your favourite animal?

I love hedgehogs and kittens

Cool, I like raccoons (:

[Sotty7]

No need for what? To call you a shitty player? You said victor asking me why I wasn't voting since post 107 or whatever number was a good post. That's literally the most useless question of the game so far. So yeah that says to me that if you're town, your opinions are horrible.

phew, it's a relief you added that emoji to help soften the blow

sotty, you better go work on your game.

Always try to get better, that's my motto.

Doesn't always play out, but there you go

[goodmorning]

What's your take on Sotty's and BBT's pushed on each other?

I can only assume you don't mean Toffee but I'm not actually sure who you do mean. TwoFace maybe?

do you find it weird that two people volunteered to step in and argue on my behalf

The defense of you was purely incidental.

GM can you go into your 1-2 of your other reads so I can judge them instead of this exchange?

Or if you can break down your issue with Victor into like a paragraph without the quote wall. That would be extremely helpful, cause I'm not getting it. At all. Actually I have the same request of Victor RE: his GM read as well.

Victor's entrance was scummier than anyone else's (including IAI's, while we're going there); it came near the bottom of p2, when there was plenty to comment on, yet he dropped an RV and left. Currently, he's playing the semantic game he accuses others of playing, misrepping Hoopla, refusing to provide much useful content, and attempting to infuriate me.

And there's nothing wrong with that. There's still a gap in logic there though. When/why does if -> is?

It doesn't. It's very possible that there were no scum on that wagon, although I think that it's more likely that there were. I just didn't see the need to fluff everything up with conditionals, particularly when my though process arrived at what I think is likely scum.

Then I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the methods at least.

Also something something hope it's not ex post reasoning something.

[BlackVoid]

I meant BlueBloodedToffee. I was asking what you thought of Sotty7 and him pushing each other (what it says about either of their alignments). I'm still trying to figure it out.

[MariaR]

I think all the talk about the wagon on rask itself is really a wild goose chase and talking on it is pointless because it was a RVS wagon trying to think if scum were on the wagon or not is just trying to overthink when there are much more important topics you could be talking about

[Sotty7]

But let's rewind for a bit. You originally said "stuff victor said" which implies multiple things and the only thing you pointed to was 1 useless question. Where's the other "stuff"? There was no other stuff. Victor hasn't made a good post yet.

Definitely disagree, his reasoning on BBT for example is actually pretty good. The only issue I have with Victors posts is the formatting and that sometimes he leaves off the names in his quote trees which makes things even harder for bad players like myself to understand. Otherwise I know where he stands. But hey, you're voting, guess I'm doing something right.

I THINK I like sotty now, although it really doesn't help that I saw her mentioned in the goat thread, and now that I check again its for scumplay no less.

Goat thread? I did win a scummy for being scum, but that was another life time ago.

[Sotty7]

I think all the talk about the wagon on rask itself is really a wild goose chase and talking on it is pointless because it was a RVS wagon trying to think if scum were on the wagon or not is just trying to overthink when there are much more important topics you could be talking about

What topics do you think are more important? Cause you could bring them up for discussion you know.

[Sotty7]

Hey Jaack, what do you think of twoface?

[MariaR]

I think all the talk about the wagon on rask itself is really a wild goose chase and talking on it is pointless because it was a RVS wagon trying to think if scum were on the wagon or not is just trying to overthink when there are much more important topics you could be talking about

What topics do you think are more important? Cause you could bring them up for discussion you know.

If I had the answer to this question I would've put it in my original post

[BlackVoid]

Greatest Player of all time thread. Yeah, I saw that too. I almost think if Sotty7 were goat-level scum, I'd be reading her as town.

@Sotty7, what would you say is your biggest strength and weakness as scum?

[TwoFace]

But hey, you're voting, guess I'm doing something right.

My voting had nothing to do with you.

[Sotty7]

Greatest Player of all time thread. Yeah, I saw that too. I almost think if Sotty7 were goat-level scum, I'd be reading her as town.

@Sotty7, what would you say is your biggest strength and weakness as scum?

Okay, now I am embarrassed.

Take this with a pitch of salt, this is my first full game back in a long time. I replaced into a game last month towards end game and before that my last full game was team mafia last year were I played terribly as scum in a nightless game. My biggest strength was knowing when to bus and making it look rational and even realistic. I'm not sure how site meta is now but I would bus a lot. I started to get try and get away from that after I became known for it. Biggest weakness I would say forcing myself to post. As town I feel much more relaxed, scum became a pressure for me and I would over think everything and it would stress me out so my posting would reduce as a result.

[Sotty7]

But hey, you're voting, guess I'm doing something right.

My voting had nothing to do with you.

Not even a tiny little thing?

[CloudKicker]

Wasnt there for like the few last pages and a skimmde trought the posts, 2 things

1. BV dont read me for the townslip, i gave plenty better content, and my townslip was about me and innocent being non-team, not that i am town aligned
2. Littleraly stop reading in early wagons, town has mo incencitive to wagon early on than mafia anyway

[goodmorning]

I meant BlueBloodedToffee. I was asking what you thought of Sotty7 and him pushing each other (what it says about either of their alignments). I'm still trying to figure it out.

toffee hasn't actually said a damn thing about it so not much to gather from that side

sotty mostly only talks about it in 119, finding the bandwagoning scummy because... i'm not actually sure. she also says some stuff about meta but the things she says are different alignments look mutually inclusive. then she just harasses a lot of people to join the wagon.

idk if it really says anything about either of their alignments. sotty's disappointment at toffee's disappearance looked genuine but that's nai. didn't really get much else out of it.

[MichelSableheart]

From reading Mafia Discussion, I know you as someone with a very good grasp on mafia theory. For you to start the game with a dice vote and follow it up with a couple of whimsical posts feels to me like you went deliberately off meta in order to provoke reactions. That everyone basically ignored it, even when you went back to more serious posting, is extremely surprising to me. It feels like more players should have responded, as it would be a good way to get some discussion started. Simultaneously, I can kind of see scum deciding not to engage an experienced player. So I really want to look for players who could have reacted, but didn't.

Hey, just because I like posting in Mafia Discussion doesn't mean I can't have a cheeky LOL with my fellow players while the stakes are low! I find it strange how you are picking apart the opening of the game so rigorously but you're finding difficult to get a read on anything in the last 10 pages.

What do you think about the Victor vs. Me/goodmorning/TwoFace thingy? I know it's a lot of unnecessary semantics, but since you care about how people are reacting to me, do you find it weird that two people volunteered to step in and argue on my behalf yet nobody did the same for Victor? On reflection I kinda do, and I suspect them more than I do Victor (who I'm still trying to work out).

I had the time to read the opening 2 pages and participated there. Furthermore, there is a variety of players interacting, and most of the posts are easy to read. As a result, it's easy to analyse those pages.

By comparison, I read page 4-10 under time pressure. I couldn't post on friday, so I really wanted to make a post on saturday morning, but I also had to leave at a specific time. To make matters worse, a lot of the posts there, the interactions between Victor and you/goodmorning/TwoFace in particular, consisted of wallposts. As a result, I know that you were arguing, but I couldn't tell you what the actual arguments were. I don't have an opinion on the interaction at the moment. I'm planning to take BlackVoid reads on them, and reread those pages with those reads in mind. However, that takes time, which I don't currently have available.

@Michel, did you want me to explain my Hoopla-read as well or just those five?

Now my turn. Talk to me about your read on Sotty7 and MariaR, especially the former. Those are the two active players I don't have a townread on.

Just those five is fine. As I mentioned to Hoopla, I'm planning to use your reads to get a better grasp on the game myself, but can't right now due to time constraints.

Sotty I remember as a generally strong player, though it's been some years since I last played with her. Her play in this game confirms that assessment. She's making solid posts, I can understand the reasoning for the suspicions she voices. Overall, she hasn't given me any reason to be suspicious of her, but I can easily see scum her fake the level of townieness she's currently displaying. I'm currently townreading her, but mainly because each individual player has a better chance of being town then being scum a priori.

Maria is a bit of a spamposter. Coming from chat mafia into games with 2 week deadlines will do that for you, I suppose. As for a read on her: I don't have much on her either, sorry. The game I played with her where she was town, she completely flipped out when she felt she got unfairly pressured. The game I played with her where she was scum, I mainly remember the way she argued that a townslip made by her scumpartner could have been an intentional slip, and managed to do this in such a way that the argument was completely ignored. Nothing of the sort has happened in this game yet, so the only thing I can tell you is that her tone here seems to be generally consistent with what I saw in her town game.

[MariaR]

#ForevernullMaria

[VictorDeAngelo]

Victor placed a random vote, without actually contributing anything useful. I've seen townies do that, but it's disappointing. Victor, why did post #35 contain nothing but a random vote? Why you didn't give an opinion on Hoopla's playstyle at the time?

Because it was page 2 and nothing in the game seemed worth commenting on.

Traditional, the portion of the game your looking at is the least profitable in my opinion. Scum have the easiest time hiding in the opening pages of the game where everything is random. You've mentioned townreads in the post but no real scumreads yet. Do you still feel comfortable with your goodmorning vote?

Let's see what the coin says about voting victor now

Heads

VOTE: victor

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick. This vote should have come two pages ago and I don't like how it only comes after you've taken pressure for not voting.

I don't know whats wrong with me I'm reading but my head is just buzzing all the words are getting scrambled and I prob can't remember what was said on the last page
Someone ask me some questions please

What do you think about Jack?

[MariaR]

Jack was one of the 2 people I had a sr on and he hasn't done much to change it I think the fact he tried to look for scum on a RVS wagon pinged me the wrong way mostly because there was nothing to go off on it because it was a RVS wagon
Plus the disagreement we had so!

[MariaR]

When I read that over it sounds like babbling do I need to rephase that

[CloudKicker]

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Didnt like that line, then i went over your iso and oh boy the walls of texts im totally not planning to hard-read into and ure voting gm whos town so theres that.

Michel's excuse to sheep Bv read is weak and comes off as fake. I would totally prefer to just not out reads and then come back or form new reads with new information than to take someone elses reads and thats assuming you tr bv and sure about that read
So far

<3 : maria ( shes actually . leaning t)
+ bv gm jack rask maybe i forget some , maybe hoop here too
. tf leaning t, bbt + inno that i havent read
-sotty? wierd pushes + michel bad recent post, victor gut + bad lines and im lazy to read too much into him so i just put him there.

[CloudKicker]

Sotty I

remember as a generally strong player

, though i

t's been some years since I last played with her

. Her play in this game confirms that assessment. She's making solid posts, I can understand the reasoning for the suspicions she voices. Overall, she

hasn't given me any reason to be suspicious of her, but I can easily see scum her fake the level of townieness she's currently displaying

.

I'm currently townreading her, but mainly because each individual player has a better chance of being town then being scum a priori

.

Maria

is a bit of a spamposter

.

Coming from chat mafia into games with 2 week deadlines will do that for you

,

I suppose

. As for a read on her:

I don't have much on her either, sorry.

The g

ame I played with her where she was town, she completely flipped out when she felt she got unfairly pressured. The game I played with her where she was scum, I mainly remember the way she argued that a townslip made by her scumpartner could have been an intentional slip, and managed to do this in such a way that the argument was completely ignored

.

Nothing of the sort has happened in this game yet

, so the

only thing I can tell you is that her tone here seems to be generally consistent with what I saw in her town game.

Just to precise my thought on this post, i think those reads are so weak. Instead of reading the game's content hes answered bv's questions with meta and it doesnt help anyone here to agree with his reads.

Why do you even bother outing reads that are so shit dude if its not to give the impression you actually read them. The whole meta on maria's scumslip defending thing is soo goddam irrelevant since its how maria wouldve played on something that happened THAT game bro, its not meta on her play.

All michel does is :

meta-read that is weak

, then add a

reason to doubt said read

, then out another read then another reason why its not a hard read.

VOTE: michelsableheart in the top 3 worst post of the game so far

[VictorDeAngelo]

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Didnt like that line, then i went over your iso and oh boy the walls of texts im totally not planning to hard-read into and ure voting gm whos town so theres that.

Yeah, there was meant to be a not there.

Not sure if I've said it before but I'm

not

buying the coin flipping gimmick.

Hopefully the post makes sense now.