Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[Holy]

/confirm

[Holy]

vote Holy

. Obviously scum trying to hide behind a sweet and "holy" facade. How dare you!

LOL, You caught me!

Hmmm, I'll go with my gut this time,

Vote: Drunken Piper

. If not enough evidence or I found (any) other person more scummy, I'll switch my vote >.>

[Holy]

Oh an easy wagon this early on page two.
Because a guy rhymes it must be a scum clue?

Hmm, after a 2nd thought, not really, but you must be have 'some role', didn't know a good one or a bad one. I'll

Unvote

, still unsure which one for now.

And my contributions to this game stop here... just kidding... I am impressed with Drunken Piper's iambic pentameter however... I hope Thanatos keeps his vote on him the whole game... It would amuse me...

It's not Iambic until every line is 10 Syllables. Until he starts posting in that, I'll keep my vote on him unless it becomes a detrement to the town in someway, or one of us dies.

LOL, keeping your vote for such a reason...

IGMEOY: Thanatos

[Holy]

Oh noez, it's Korlash ;.; my scum...

Holy: I said I would move it if it became a problem for the town. <.<

I read that, I just cheering the poet battle, lol

[Holy]

@Sensfan: NO to role mass claim. And I'm glad you withdrew your proposal.
Although my scumdar did reacts a little to your proposal.

[Holy]

I have decide, Korlash you will always be my scum, just help me, please, to lynch your scum mate, okay...

Thanatos gets major props and an

unvote

.

SensFan gets an

unFoS

for not being an idiot anymore.

Flip-flopping on SensFan are you? I guess your next step is to distance yourself from him. Try not to be to obvious.

Huh? Where? Zhao, you phail...

[Holy]

Ok, on a more serious note: I think that at least one unpowered role should claim right now.

Then, if we lynch someone with a role, on N1 the role-reopener can reopen it and the role-switcher can switch the roles of the dead person and the unpowered.

But:
1. If an unpowered that claim at day 1 is a townie and not murdered at night 1, he/she (has a high possibility) would be murdered at night 2 with his/her new power.
2. If an unpowered that claim at day 1 is a scum, then mafia will secure a power that may benefit the townie and still free to kill or perform his new Role night action (not both) whichever The Mafia think when they discuss would be best.

Also, I think we should agree on a list of the most valuable roles, from least to greatest, so as to work toward the most potent distribution of roles. I'd set them like so:

Role-Switcher (the one who's able to set this all up)
Role-Reopener (without the reopener, the role-switcher's kind of useless)
Cop
Doc
Roleblocker (incidentally, since we're going to have so many night actions, the blocker shouldn't block anyone unless they're sure the person they're blocking is scum. *bad thought* Gah, I hope the scum don't have the RB, that'd fuck this whole plan to hell.)
Night Communicators

The Role-Switcher might be a mafia or sk though... and ready to mixed-up our minds X.X
I don't know, I don't really like this a -one unpowered- claim idea (I may consider at day 2, depends on the situation).

@Than - yep. Completely right. But the scum are still at a big disadvantage: at least one of them

needs

to be unpowered, or their night action is useless, cuz they have to send in a nightkill. Whereas we'll have full use of all of our roles.

No, mafia don't need at least one of them to be unpowered, a powered scum still may kill by discarding his role action.

Thanatos - The most valuable thing the town has in its favour is the powerroles. Powerroles are better for town than they are for scum. Personally, I'd rather have everyone be a powerrole than have everyone's roles be uncertain. I think a game in which all players are powerroles is good for town, especially because most of the powerroles don't benefit scum, but they do benefit town. I mean, look at the alternative: our powerroles are just lost forever? I mean barring the rolemanipulators, our most powerful roles are cop and doc. Neither do the scum ANY good.

Well...Personally, I'd rather have a scum-super-lucky-lynch at day 1 and luckily-succeed-guessing someone's role (which is a rare occasion, that's why I still can accept your eagerness about this, sigh...).
A doc role could do the scum SOMETHING good, there's an sk, remember...? (Please explain, if I'm wrong)

Speaking of which, this whole deal is even sweeter when you consider the SK. The SK is incapable of using any role, period (unless he doesn't want to kill, but I don't find that particularly likely). So any power tacked onto him is completely useless, and therefore neutral for town.

SK may do both.

This plan of yours really does not begin until tomorrow... So... Yeah... What does your plan include for today if I may ask?

It will consist entirely of

Day 1
A.) One vanilla claiming (check)
B.) When the end of the day approaches, I'll remind the role reopener to target the dead person if the dead person had a power.
C.) When the end of the day approaches, I'll remind the role switcher to target the vanilla and the dead person if the dead person had a power.

How about:
Day 1
A.) Finding and lynch the scummiest player, and luckily indeed the scum himself.
B.) Will automatically reduce a possibility scum have more power by successfully lynched one of their member.
C.) Let the role reopener to target the dead person if the dead person had a power. Etc...

What we're basically doing is making sure that everytime they kill a town powerrole, we resurrect it. Someone, Than, I think, mentioned that we're giving them too much info, I disagree. Because the people we're giving powers will have been vanilla before, so we don't lose anything. They'll either have to waste kills killing the same role again, or strike out randomly trying to get one of the role manipulators.

I guess the scum won't mind to kill the same role again if that role incidentally a cop, why take a chance let an innocents cop alive, as long as they got another townie

reduced

.

And it's necessary for the vanilla townie to claim so the roleswitcher doesn't accidentally move it onto someone with a better power. Imagine if the role-switcher accidentally switched a dead power with the reopener, for example.

The problem is, how can we be sure that whoever claim that he/she is a vanilla townie is indeed the plain innocents...

I'm keeping my eye on Holy, who has yet to put forth any effort into posting using holy scripture... disappointment...

Luls...
"then hear from heaven and act. Judge between your servants, condemning the guilty and bringing down on his own head what he has done. Declare the innocent not guilty, and so establish his innocence."
-1 Kings

[Holy]

Of course, it will never get that far because eventually one of the role manipulators will die, but look at it this way: we have the equivalent of a doctor that works on roles. So if they do shoot the former vanilla, that means we're forcing them to hit the vanillas. How much easier do you think this game would be if scum were forced to kill all the vanillas first?

Damn, after a re-read, why the hell your idea seems good enough to try... but only if the doc really pro-town that this whole plan would apply nicely.
If doc saved the unpowered claimer from day 1, and mafia target him/her then mafia failed the murder.
If mafia afraid fail the murder, the unpowered claimer from day 1 survived at least at night 1. But, again... at 2nd night there's a high probability this the first night survival will be murdered because the doc save another unpowered claimer from day 2.

O gosh, I had a headache...

[Holy]

Impressive Holy... but I no longer have a vote to unvote off of you... so perhaps I should put it back on? ...

Lol, you may accused being wishy washy if you do that

[Holy]

Look if no one said anything then the mafia would do as I said, and kill the vanilla. While the doc would protect it. Thus making he plan completely awesome!!! Now that it has been said... it has all gone down the crapper.. so to speak...

Nahhh, knowing a vanilla won't automatically make them murder the vanilla, knowing a vanilla means a bigger chance finding and murder a power role (that's a smart mafia would do), hard job for the doc to guess the right rescue.
But, after that vanilla gain power from the dead (known power because it was from the dead player) and for an example coincidentally it was a dead cop would make that former-vanilla the scum choice to murder at night 2.

Oh, and note: My plan doesn't have "flaws." My plan has a "tradeoff" that is "beneficial" for "town."

If the role-switcher is murdered at night 1, your plan froze.

[Holy]

I don’t have a role, that I be claiming.
Just how I do things, the way I be gaming.

Did you mean you are an unpowered scum? lol, j/k :p

[Holy]

Hey Sensfan, your buddy Phate is taking alot of flak for this plan, aren't you going to speak up? As the original proponent of it, I would have expect more discussion from you. You've haven't mentioned anything about it for 3 pages now.

I'm also suspicious of OTM, he seems to be flipping.

This is the 2nd time he fails.

Vote: Zhao

.
To me, he seems trying to gradually raising/widening his chance to vote players he mentioned with vague reasons. Scummy indeed...

[Holy]

The role re-opener has the ability to open the Role of a dead player. This would allow the role switcher to switch a player into the empty Role. Think of it as a funky sort of resurrection.

Hey Mod: Another question for you. If say, the reopener targets an alive player to "re-open" at night, and that player dies during the night, will the reopener successfully reopen the power? (IF said player had one that is)

No.

Secondly: If the reopener targets a vanilla, does it open the "Vanilla" role thus allowing the switcher to switch a role onto the dead player? Interesting Idea, I would just like to know for future strategies, games, ideas, etc...

Yes.

Now I'm confused because of you Korlash...

Mod:

Based from Korlash's first question, is this means that the reopener definitely can not open the role of an alive player (can only open a dead player role), true?

Yes.

@ Korlash:
From your second question, actually what did you mean?
The possible case (from your 2nd question) for me is that when we have a dead player and then the reopener targets the dead and the dead showed up as vanilla/unpowered and thus vanilla switched by the switcher to another dead player??? Errr, I'm lost...

No. I agree the RB hurts us too much. That would be a role I would rather be assigned to a dead player. If the mafia has it we can kill them, but if a town has it we might as well switch and save the town. or that is the scenario in my head. Then it also boils down to endgame play. When we have ll the pro-town roles we want and we are simply siphoning off the mafia's powers.

No, I mean opening up the vanilla role. Wouldn't a scum want to do that, to take away power roles?

@ Korlash: You said that the RB hurts town and would be good if that role assigned to a dead player. The point is, how would we know who the player that have the RB role? This is such a speculative theory. Ok, lets back to scum hunting...

@ Thanatos: I guess... when a reopener open a role from the dead, the reopener will know that 'vanilla role' after the act, and if the reopener is scum, before the 'open role act' he is also clueless about the vanilla-ness. Hmmm, tell me if I'm wrong >.>

I guess I'm confused about why you'd feel the RB was a danger to the town if it was on a townie.

Also,

FOS Korlash

for giving the scum an idea they may not have thought of should they happen to have the reopener or the switcher.

Alright, a few issues with the FoS.

If Korlash was scum, he would have waited until night to tell his scumbuddy about opening vanillas, or switching away good powers. He would not have had to say it in-thread.

Therefore, we are to assume that he is not scum, but instead made a play mistake. You are FoSing someone on the grounds that they are town that goofed.

Don't be fooled ;.; he is that kind of scum...
Throwing thoughtless theory just like that...

[Holy]

@ Korlash:
From your second question, actually what did you mean?
The possible case (from your 2nd question) for me is that when we have a dead player and then the reopener targets the dead and the dead showed up as vanilla/unpowered and thus vanilla switched by the switcher to another dead player??? Errr, I'm lost...

If Korlash was scum, he would have waited until night to tell his scumbuddy about opening vanillas, or switching away good powers. He would not have had to say it in-thread.

O yeah right, sorry. So from Korlash's theory, thus dead vanilla switched 'blindly' to another alive player. Well, this could hurt town if the switcher accidentally target an innocents cop, doc, etc with the dead vanilla.

[Holy]

Ahhh, you got me there. When quickly browsing I thought Phate was carrying on your original plan, but I see that you proposed mass reveal while he wants the switcher+reopener to work in tandem. Both are wacky plans so I thought they meshed together.

Lol! Is it just a misunderstanding, still unsure... I'll let my vote for now

Hmm, mentioning about an RB... a powered-scum must choose between using the power or to murder. But an SK may do both, if an SK is blocked by an RB, which action is blocked?

Mod

, is it:
a. only the role-power
b. only the killing action
c. both

Both

[Holy]

I'm still not sold on Zhao's case right now. Personally, I think OTM is scummier. He agrees a lot without giving many reasons of his own, which always spooks me because it makes me think people are trying to buddy up to me.

Hmmm, OTM actually seems townie for me... >.> He didn't say much, but his words seems straightforward.

And actually...

Don't be fooled ;.; he is that kind of scum...
Throwing thoughtless theory just like that...

I am that kind of town too... A double edged sword.. Ripper... slasher... Tearer... Gouger...I am the teeth in the darkness! I am the Wings in the dark! I am Korlash! ROAR!

I LOL-ed XD at the irony...

[Holy]

this is the second time OTM has tried to jump on a wagon oppurtunisticly. I believe he is teh scum. Also, have meta reason behind my theory.

Errr, you may explain your meta reason, because I just didn't see it...

[Holy]

I'm back...
Sorry guys, I had problem with my CMOS battery and RAM.

Okay...

... Zhao seems to equate bad plan with scum, which seems disingenuous to me, and

not a true townie-thought-process

, so I became suspicious when Zhao said Phate was suspicious. Sure, scum could come up with a bad plan that would benefit scum more than town, but that is SO risky, and

Phate's plan doesn't strike me that way.

QFT...

True, if you followed the plan that thrown by Phate and truly tried to analyze the plan cons/pros, Zhao's posted thoughts to me seems like not following that 'townie-thought-process'. Although there's a possibility Phate is scum with such 'a plan', but yeah... his plan doesn't seems like a red alert for me too.

I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.

I didn't understand these...
From your words, you seem like stating that OTM would come out as townie which has a scum driven lynch How could you be so sure? Even I can't really tell whether OTM is townie or scum.

Oh well, I'm too sleepy to continue now, I'll post more tomorrow.

[Holy]

... Zhao seems to equate bad plan with scum, which seems disingenuous to me, and

not a true townie-thought-process

, so I became suspicious when Zhao said Phate was suspicious. Sure, scum could come up with a bad plan that would benefit scum more than town, but that is SO risky, and

Phate's plan doesn't strike me that way.

QFT...

True, if you followed the plan that thrown by Phate and truly tried to analyze the plan cons/pros, Zhao's posted thoughts to me seems like not following that 'townie-thought-process'. Although there's a possibility Phate is scum with such 'a plan', but yeah... his plan doesn't seems like a red alert for me too.

I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.

I didn't understand these...
From your words, you seem like stating that OTM would come out as townie which has a scum driven lynch How could you be so sure? Even I can't really tell whether OTM is townie or scum.

Even

you? What do you mean by that?

Even I (While I?)> I as an uninformed townie can never be sure about OTM's alignment, even though I feel the same with him about why Zhao seems scummy. So, Than's words about a "scum leading town" that gets off the hook by working on the OTM lynch confused me a bit (scum lead, means a townie lynched??), uh huh... we're still at the middle of the Day here...
Ah well, I'm bad at explaining things which I too actually confused at. It just feels there's something wrong with what Than said. He said Phate feels potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town", but his feelings could change thus the player that potentially fit as "scum leading town" could be anybody. Yet, he is too at the OTM wagon after all that sayings. Ah, crap! I was sleepy when posting that. But yeah..., after I read and think it over, I still don't like his sayings. It feels wishy washy,

unvote, vote: Thanatos

.

His full post:

QuickBen, I agree with you completely.

Thanatos, you say that my planning and "stubberness" is detrimental, without explaining why, and I can more-or-less handle that. And you say I'm hunting scum, which I'm glad you realise.

But how do you go straight from, "Well, Phate's too stubborn but he is hunting scum, and OTM has commited this entire list of scumtells over here, so surely at least one of them must be scum."

You'd cooled down on my suspicion list a bit, but if we lynch OTM today, I'll be voting for you D2.

Because I feel like OTM started out clinging to you specificly, until you began strong distancing. I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.

[Holy]

For the record, I haven't let Zhao off the hook, I'm still watching him. He's phishing a lot...

[Holy]

For the record, I haven't let Zhao off the hook, I'm still watching him. He's phishing a lot...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you think I'm scummy because I disagreed with Phate's plan and said he was suspcious?

Besides myself, who else do you find suspicious?

Not because your disagreement with the plan, that plan indeed had flaws although if there's not too much WIFOM in it it may works good for the town if you really follow the thought process. So, it's more from the discussion process, your reactions along the plan whether it was pro/cons.
And because lately you're phishing a lot too.

Huh! Suspicious? All of you of course.
Well, actually you are the most suspicious player for me, but I'm the only one that sustain your case it seems.

I think Holy is putting too much emphsis on my feelings on Phate, which in and of it self is little more than me being confused about him.

Yeah, I may be hallucinating at that time, lol.
Your play do reminds me of a scum-cop probability. Yeah, based from my experience with my dear scum, Korlash...

[Holy]

Not because your disagreement with the plan, that plan indeed had flaws although if there's not too much WIFOM in it it may works good for the town if you really follow the thought process. So, it's more from the discussion process, your reactions along the plan whether it was pro/cons.
And because lately you're phishing a lot too.

Show me.

Well... ^this is one. Phishing.

And does anyone else feel the urge to lynch DP just to shut him up?

Lol! Not yet...

Um, a vote that puts OTM at -1 just off of a whim? Scummier than anything that OTM has done so far. Scum do not have to read, they only need to skim to pick up the jist of the posts, and after QuickBen skims, he puts OTM at -1. Definitely not a town move.

Hmm, yup, vague reason is scummy.

Unvote. Vote: QuickBen.

I'm still open for his explanation though.

[Holy]

Not because your disagreement with the plan, that plan indeed had flaws although if there's not too much WIFOM in it it may works good for the town if you really follow the thought process. So, it's more from the discussion process, your reactions along the plan whether it was pro/cons.
And because lately you're phishing a lot too.

Show me.

Well... ^this is one. Phishing.

No ... I want you to back up your accusations with evidence. Otherwise you're basically slandering me to make me look suspicious.

You are already suspicious. Why are you so concerned being suspicious anyway? If you did nothing wrong or at least didn't do anything too badly, no one or at least the majority won't even look at your case. You care about this too much. Scummy...

Did you noticed my earlier accusations to you? You did phail twice, but the second time was quite huge for me (that was in the middle of the plan discussion if I'm not mistaken), you seems didn't really thought for the town sake, and you accused Sensfan about the plan wrongly. If you really concerned for the town, you won't make that such a mistake!

[Holy]

I accuse Holy of all these logical fallacies. He’s one scummy player.
• Attack the Person (ad hominem)
• Appeal to Emotion
• Argument from Repetition (ad nauseam)
• Circular Reasoning (begging the question)
• Appeal to Authority
• Guilt by Association
• Straw Man (mischaracterization)
• Correlation Implies Causation (cum hoc ergo propter hoc)
• Red Herring (distraction technique)
• Appeal to Probability
• Argument from Fallacy
•

Loaded Question (fallacy of many questions)

• Gambler's Fallacy (Monty Hall problem)
• No True Scotsman (stereotypes)
• Burden of Proof (proof of a negative)
• WIFOM (Wine In Front of Me)
o Too Townie (A Subset of WIFOM Illogic)

Wow...!
Look who's talking?! Please filter your own posts for these (bolds).

Did you noticed my earlier accusations to you? You did phail twice, but the second time was quite huge for me (that was in the middle of the plan discussion if I'm not mistaken), you seems didn't really thought for the town sake, and you accused Sensfan about the plan wrongly. If you really concerned for the town, you won't make that such a mistake!

I see. Pro-town players don’t make stupid mistakes. We might as well eliminate all players that haven’t made stupid mistakes and catch scum in a neat little package. Game over.

Yeah, we're not free from mistakes. I'm not stressing about the mistake but there's such a plan thrown in front of us, and you didn't seem followed the process well, which is bad.
Btw, with that long kind of list that I'm scummy, why didn't you just vote me anyway, sigh...

[Holy]

..., on the other I find it hard to take Kuwabara seriously...

Lol, maybe that's exactly his point... to make others unprepared because of Kuwabara's underdog-ness feel.

We're not here to lynch scummy players, where "scummy" means "your opinion of the way experienced players act when they're scum." We're here to lynch scum. Different people act in different ways when they're scum. Primarily forum players tend to act more logical as scum and more emotional as town. Primarily chat or IRC players tend to reverse that. More experienced players tend to make more gambits and act more confidently as scum. Unfortunately, they tend to do this as town, too. New players, as scum, tend to have a strong sense of "I want to live!" make simple mistakes, or go too far trying to avoid them and end up looking suspicious anyway. Unfortunately, they tend to do that as town, too. Furthermore, what's a mistake or a slip or a scumtell for an experienced player is often a nulltell for a newbie, and vice-versa.

And it doesn't stop there. Some players break the mold completely, and each player has their own quirks. Compare your own style with Jdodge's or Quag's, or Adel's or Adele's, or BBM's or BM's , or MoS's or SSF's. None of these players are particularly new, and they're all experienced with forum play. And yet their playstyles differ vastly.

A good scumhunter doesn't live by the Jeeptells, or make their own definition of what's always scummy no matter what and follow it to the letter. A good scumhunter recognises first the things that usually mean scum, and as he gets better at it, makes his definitions more specific. He might note a very telling scumtell that only applies to newer players, for example. Or a phrase, that, when uttered by a player who plays primarily in chat games, almost invariably means they're town. And his definition of scummy becomes more diverse.

And it goes deeper than that, too. A good scumhunter draws on prior experience with any given player. If a person's playstyle changes dramatically it usually (of course, there are always exceptions) means they know something they didn't last game. This is called the "meta", short for "metagame". It literally means "after the game".

Saying "scummy=scummy" is not good scumhunting.

I didn't like this tell. Simply, different behaviour is something we recognize based from past acts, there's no need to discuss it immoderately.
If QB's explanation is quite satisfying, I'll consider shifting my vote to you

[Holy]

I've officially stopped reading Korlash's post due to them being stupid and a waste of my time.

The only one deserving of lynch is OTM. All you have against me and Phate is that we have lives.

Luls...

First of all, I didn't realize that my use of the word "skim" would be taken so badly. I'm not a newbie, I've just been away from the game for a while. To me, skimming wasn't a bad thing because it wasn't the only reading I had done. I've been reading along as we go, so I went back and skimmed to refresh my memory as to what I had already read. I find that it's really quite useful when your mind is stuck, the way that looking too closely at a pointilism picture can make you miss the big picture.

My vote on OTM (which doesn't seem to have counted?) was due to being on the fence about his individual posts, where I couldn't decide if it was his playstyle that was pinging the scumdar or if he was actually committing scumtells. By skimming the thread, instead of getting more comfortable with his playstyle, it made me more suspicious. (Hence my vote.)

Any other questions?

Hmm, which OTM's individual posts? Sorry, I'm a bit lost and lazy.
TBH I didn't feel you're that scummy atm anyway.

Unvote.

As for Phate, I'm still a bit unsure.

[Holy]

@Holy- i meant that I was looking at his posts separately, not taken as a group, which is what i did on the re-read/skim however you want to put it.

O yeah, sorry. Got it.

*waves hands*

You want to vote for Phate!

You are not unsure!

He is scum!

Would I lie to you? =D

There's something that bugged me about Phate. At first, his plan seems could come out either from a townie or scum, so I'm still neutral about him.
And then he threw his opinion about forum-player and chat-player play style difference, which I understood because I came from a chat-player background.
But from sounding it, he sounds so unnecessary logical, which is fit the forum-player scum theory, has he mold already is unknown for me.
And TBH, OTM's trust list seems like an illogical move for a scum.
So, I'm still confused about Phate actually...

@ Holy: I believe he was just being a sarcastic ass. Or that is how I took it. I would be very interested in seeing him actually try to pass any of those off.

I was mocking you Holy, but now that I think of it, you might have made those faulty statements just to get me to react and say statements that could be used against me later.

Nope, I was just try making others look to your case too.

You are already suspicious. Why are you so concerned being suspicious anyway? If you did nothing wrong or at least didn't do anything too badly, no one or at least the majority won't even look at your case. You care about this too much. Scummy...

So you’re saying that if someone is calling me scummy but I’m innocent, the correct play would be to ignore them? Trying to prove innocence is not recommended?

Well, at least suspicious for me (and if I wrong, then my bad...), that's why I said if your acts wasn't that bad, majority won't suspect you as scum anyway. And I didn't say that trying to prove innocence is not recommended, it's an effort made to survive, so why not.
But how the effort made to survive that is judged.

[Holy]

Same here...
I'll be on holiday until the 26th. Happy holidays all!

[Holy]

Hello...ello...llo...lo...o... [echoes]
>.>
<.<

It seems only DP and I that present in here after the Christmas.
Well..well..well.., I'll be back tomorrow then. Let me sleep for now -.-

[Holy]

Hmm, mostly found OTM is likely the scum, I have sound my doubt and thought that he might be isn't.
Now is over than 2 weeks for "-2 or -3 from being lynched" status of him.
While now the focus seemed shifted to Phate or Panzerjager, the Vote Count still haven't reflect that.
So, actually... mostly from DrunkenPiper, Korlash, and mikeburnfire - what is your thoughts of OTM? If you already explained it, please share it again, maybe I missed it somewhere.
Others have showed it by their vote for him plus their little convincing story for that.
Zhao also showed it, but he found that QB was scummier for him.
While 007 showed it also, but thought that his -2 status concerned him. Heh... >.>

[Holy]

Oh a related note I have not actually found OTM that much Protown either. He does seem to be completely absent fr most of the game, only popping up when needed to give as little content as possible.

Yep, I didn't like it too.

People really don't seem to care about Panzer, and yet he has done almost the same things OTM has done that I feel are actually reason to suspect a player. Mainly the lack of content, dodging type style of play. I would think a couple others would want to help pressure him into talking. (Holidays noted, some "lurkishness" is given to all players I know, but most of what I am saying is from way before hand)

Okay, good point. Lets try it.

Vote: Panzerjager

.
From what I saw, Panzer and OTM seems had an experience playing together and their suspicion based from that experience.
But Phate and 007 too had the same case as them, and yeah... me too had that issue with Korlash actually. But the way Panzer exposed it isn't really pro-town anyway.

[Holy]

So, actually... mostly from DrunkenPiper, Korlash, and mikeburnfire - what is your thoughts of OTM? If you already explained it, please share it again, maybe I missed it somewhere.

I do not like OTM's constant jump on a wagons that are.
His excuses to are not up to snuff or on par.

However, his wagon has been fast.
His worthlessness, inspired votes cast.

I think he will probably hurt us in later days.
His playstyle is lacking, and leaves me in a daze.

But I think his lynch today looks none to hard.
Could be scum driven, and full of lard.

Hmm...
You know what, I found it's difficult for me to measure your "good faith" with the way you explained things.

At any rate, me vote is on the scummiest in me view.
Holy, your thoughts on Kab, I think are due.

Not really... Kab suspected OTM, and then QB, after QB's explanation, he withdrew the vote, I guess he threw minor FOS to Panzer too. Thus left his first said suspect back on top, he hasn't add his update though.

[Holy]

Holy, what do you mean by I haven't added my update?

From your posted posts, I guess your top suspect atm back to OTM.
But I don't know about your list, it might has change but you don't sound it to us. And because you don't sound it, I thought there's not much difference from what you already said.
But for the sake of clearance, if you want to add or correct anything right now, please do so.

[Holy]

So I'll ask it again:

SensFan, what did you realize, besides the fact that everyone was becoming suspicious of you, that made you change your mind about the massclaim idea?

Well, I doubt he will answer that, he might be replaced soon ;_;

For now, I'm still waiting Panzer's effort to convince us ^.^

[Holy]

Awww...

I'm tempted to shift back my vote to Thanatos now -.-;

[Holy]

You know, OTM brought up a very good point with Sensfan. But I also wish to ask him, why did you not bring this up sooner? This seems to me like a scum who had information in his back pocket, (possibly about his partner, which is why he didn't reveal it...) and revealing it now that he is at -2 in order to save his own skin. Or am I just nuts?

You're just nuts.

luls...

And mod

, please prod: Phate, Thanatos, and Zhao too, thank you ^.^

Phate has posted, but I'll prod the other two.

[Holy]

I hope the side that I am on(can not suggest which due to being replaced) is victorious.

Is this not incredibly suspicious to anyone else?

When I read that, my brain frozzzen. WIFOM..WIFOM..WIFOM... Which isssss ittt.., made me doubt my decision for awhile, damn it! I chose that as a null-tell to prevent more damages with my brain.

[Holy]

Yep, I sense the unnecessary-ness too. But I really don't know.. my bad...

[Holy]

-.-;

Waiting for the corpse examination in progress...

[Holy]

O my~
I guess..
If we lynch QuickBen and turned up he is the scum. Then Phate is innocents, and Thanatos must be a scum. Vice versa - if QuickBen turned up townie, then Phate is scum.
If we lynch Phate and turned up he is the scum. Then Thanatos is innocents. Vice versa - if Phate turned out townie, then Thanatos is scum.

So, our Big Problem is which confirmed scum should we lynch, i.e. which "cop" should we trust >.>


I prefer to wait Phate's explanation first.
I just got a bad feeling that maybe Phate is an easy lynch because he threw "the plan" <.<

[Holy]

O yeah Phate, although you voted Thanatos because you believe he is fake, still we should only choose the confirmed one to lynch, i.e. you or QuickBen I guess.

[Holy]

NO! Bad Holy... Bad... go.. sit in the corner... >.> Ok that is a bit harsh.. eat some cake and go play video games! <.<

;.;


@Korlash: there's two claimed cop, yes, definitely one of them must be a fake (The logic I got: definitely the Cop flavour is in the innocents hand). But we can confirmed an innocents cop if we choose the right confirmed scum.
But if choose to lynch from the false cop perspective, actually it's just the same. If Phate-cop turned out scum, then QuicBen is innocents. If Thanatos-cop turned out scum, then Phate is innocents.
I just prefer we lynch from the confirmed scum perspective, that's all.

[Holy]

Note to remember:
The two claimed cop, EACH got a confirmed scum.

[Holy]

Thanatos, if you thought that Phate and OTM were linked, why the hell would you investigate Phate when OTM came up town?

So True! It bugged me also.


I assume our cop is an innocents, innocents weren't told who their allies are. An innocents cop doubts whether the doc was in scum possession or the town possession. Thus the cop will be very careful about a claim.
But Thanatos seems too confident about a doc protection, he didn't consider the possibility that the doc is scum, because if the doc is scum, an innocents cop definitely won't survive tonight because of the premature claim. His "false-confidence" lead me to suspect him as scum.
And as a scum cop, if the town believes him as a pro-town, I believe he still will survive whether the doc is town or scum from the SK. Thus explained his "false-confidence".

Well, I might be wrong again, damnit! But for a confirmation I'll

Vote: QuickBen

.

[Holy]

There's too many IFs for the roles.
But I suspect the scum got: doc/switcher/blocker.

That's why I think we should lynch QB, we got a scum anyway.
And we still free to suspect Phate tomorrow too if he still alive.

Let's think further tomorrow, because indeed there's still tomorrow ;.;

Good night for now. I'll re-read Day 2 tomorrow (Real Time).

[Holy]

O gosh, how optimistic my post^ sounds, so many tomorrows, lol.

[Holy]

XD
I can't believe this, I'm still safe and sound.
I thought the scum would save for next me as a scapegoat, but still the SK would kill me (am I not enough scummy yesterday for the SK, lol), the SK prefers the doc (scum doc, phew!). I'm innocents though.

Let me read first, please this time don't be so hasty MBF... ;_;

[Holy]

*save me for next

[Holy]

Ok, done re-read only from Day 2.

Everyone still might be an SK.

I've re-analyze kabenon007, he might be a scum. He bit my early craplogic on Day 2. He was hesitant to unvote Phate and vote QB, 'cause the air seems wins the Phate lynch, although he said he can see where the logic I was presented could lead. While I honestly, saw a hole in it.

Unvote. Vote: kabenon007.

[Holy]

The minute when QB said his role, I was intensely alarmed, but that day has passed. And now I'm pretty sure kabenon007 is the last scum.

@MBF: What made you think that I'm the SK?

[Holy]

@MBF:
When we had two claimed cops, I still didn't know who actually said the truth. Because Than didn't consider that might be a scum-doc, he was so confident came out that early. I speculate about a scum-doctor, because that probability is there.

And when QB revealed himself to be the doctor, I immediately suspect him as scum, because a townie-doc won't reveal himself that early (note: he wasn't on lynch danger when claimed) because the scum definitely will murder a townie-doc.

On my last post on Day 2, I was pretty sure that QB definitely is scum, at that time Day 2 is still early and I'm still up with more discussion, but you were so hasty and dropped a hammer. Honestly, after QB claimed which made me really suspect him, I immediately doubt Phate's innocents but I was too tired that time (see my 2 last posts if I'm not mistaken). To avoid further confusion on the next game day (before I go to sleep that day), actually I already consider a Phate's lynch but I didn't have a chance because of your hasty hammer.

[Holy]

@DrunkenPiper: I played with Sensfan on other 2 games, he was replaced and the other one he acted just like here. So in general from my 3 games with him, he is a lurkish player, so I still doubt about him being SK if based from that suspicion.

@Thanatos: I only explained about Day 2, and I didn't consider to push a case towards you today. Note: the roles placed randomly, so the probability is there, period. For today: We had 2 deaths last night,

if you tell us the truth

that you were roleblocked, I didn't think that you're a mafia or SK. I'm sure that you definitely not the scum based from Day 2. To

confirm

about whether you are the SK or not, is another case.

[Holy]

EBWOP: I only explained about Day 2 (my post #674 meant to answer MBF)

[Holy]

^Yep, I guess so too, although not confirmed yet.

[Holy]

Speculation on night 1: there's only one murder, I don't know whether the Mafia and SK chose the same target (MBF blocked Zhao townie, I guess QB doc definitely protected his own mate, not the cop) or the SK chose to murder the one that protected by scum-doc, and the most speculative theory is because the SK didn't post his night action at all, Sensfan claimed as role-opener, he said he didn't open the role from the dead to prevents scum took advantage, but what if actually he didn't get a chance to post his night choice at all? Thus he might be our SK. I'm not sure about this actually, because the mod maybe prod him to get his night action.

[Holy]

From OTM's to Korlash's death we were informed of what their role is, maybe a re-opener job is just to make the role able to switch if opened

OTM - Unpowered
Zhao - Night Communicator
Phate - Role Switcher
QB - Doctor
Korlash - Unpowered

[Holy]

We can save kabenon-the_scum-lynch later, lets

Unvote, Vote: Drunken Piper

the hiding behind rhyme guy.

[Holy]

@Skruffs: for a more solid info of course.

[Holy]

There's too many IFs for the roles.
But I suspect the scum got: doc/switcher/blocker.

That's why I think we should lynch QB, we got a scum anyway.
And we still free to suspect Phate tomorrow too if he still alive.

Let's think further tomorrow, because indeed there's still tomorrow ;.;

Good night for now. I'll re-read Day 2 tomorrow (Real Time).

This was before any scum roles were revealed, right?

But after QB claimed. I immediately suspect him after that action.

@Drunken Piper: I voted you to gather info from your reaction, I didn't intent to lynch anyone but scum or SK, and because I already suspect 007 as scum, I prefer his lynch for today. I just need more info of who might be the SK. What I meant with later is later in this same day.

[Holy]

And I guess kabenon007 somewhat missing and didn't really defends himself or said something lately.

[Holy]

^ 'cause I'm gathering reactions for clues. If he thought that I really want to lynch someone other than who I think is scum for today, because of that I guess I can understand why he voted me.
And I don't think that as an OMGUS Vote, so

Unvote.

@DP: Before you suspect me, I believe so far your suspect is Sensfan, you suspected him as an SK if I'm not mistaken, but who's your mafia suspect (besides me) so far?

[Holy]

^Not really, it just 1 question, if he said he still didn't know for sure, I'll have that as answered too.

And who's your suspect Sensfan?

Fine! Actually I really suspect 007, but because there's only I and yeah MBF that suspect him, there's really no real pressure on him. And I still try finding SK anyway.

[Holy]

^Maybe the mafia feared the SK more than the Cop (a proven Cop though). Moreover, if the mafia really have a roleblocker that explains this probability: the mafia prefer to block the Cop to prevents investigation, plus prevents the Cop-SK probability; and they chose to murder some other person that they suspect highly as the SK, i.e. they didn't consider MBF as one.

And gah! Sorry Sensfan, I misread. But I still think it wasn't a loaded question, if answered truthfully it's enough for me.

[Holy]

oops, my post meant to refer to Skruff's #724

[Holy]

Actually my current status should be: Not voting (since post #721). Well, who cares anyway -.-;

Fixed.

Unvote. Vote: kabenon007.

I didn't care how scummy am I, by asking questions I got responds, that's all I care. For me finding the last lone scum, i.e. SK is hard, they showed no particular connection to anybody just like a townie.

Out of Topic

@MBF: I love my death scene XD (on your Nightmare Mafia). Satisfying indeed. Lol!

[Holy]

I still don't see why I must be the last scum. I get the idea of the scum being roleblocker. That makes sense, but I can't see how I must have been Zhao's scum buddy. Apart from that, what makes you think I am the last scum?

Not because I think that you were his mason-buddy, but because your fallacy feed attempt.

Here:

I see what Holy is saying. Instead of trying to determine from our two claimers which is cop, and possibly accidentally lynching our cop, we go after their claimed "confirmed scum."

Can't use Phate

, as that would defeat the purpose of the plan. But if we lynch QB and he is scum, then Phate wasn't lying and Thanatos is scum, and if QB is town, then Phate was lying and we lynch him.

I think it could work.

(on Day 2) Phate was one of the "confirmed scum" by Than. Why can't we use him?

[Holy]

@kabenon007: My plan was to lynch either Phate or QB, just hadn't decide which.
The point is, I thought that you were trying to save your Phate-buddy, but felt hesitant because the town was more in favor with lynching Phate than QB-lynch although you said that plan could work, I thought you were just afraid appeared too scummy if you insist with it. Anyway both was scum, so of course you just followed the town, because you knew either way you would end-up lost a mate, chosing a Phate lynch was a save move for you (for the town eyes) although at the same time you did announced your "Can't use Phate" theory.

[Holy]

Well, I'm pretty sure with everybody pointing at me, I'll still alive tomorrow to blame ;_;

Oh look, how scummy my words now, dammit!

Maybe the next day, my suspects would be narrowed down though, I won't tell it now for the scum to see :p

[Holy]

Hm, kabenon...
Why didn't you tell your scum suspect earlier or hunt for the evidence anyways? Made me think that you only care with SK-hunting. Well, I'll just wait for the lynch info.

[Holy]

-.-;

[Holy]

If the scum not the roleblocker, than the SK might be a cop. IMO.
But because Thanatos already said he was roleblocked, and there was 2 murders last night, so I doubt that the cop is the SK.
Him being roleblocked explains the probability that Scum have a roleblocker. If the roleblocker is a townie, Thanatos might be faked the block-info, but there was no objection at all from anybody today, so I guess he's truly roleblocked, i.e. Thanatos not the SK.

[Holy]

Anyway why did a townie want to blocked a cop anyway, I'm confusing myself, dammit.

[Holy]

>.>

I'm still suspicious with Sensfan though, he seems didn't have any opinion at all on this game.

[Holy]

XD

You said you want to lynch me (following the crowds? Lol!), but your gut says MBF is your SK, yeah right!

Well my gut, says it's you.

[Holy]

I was going to vote Holy because of how she tried to kill the doc

No! I was trying to lynch scum, only stupid townie-doc would claimed on no lynch danger (only 1 or 2 votes back then if I'm not mistaken).
Think clearly, please. Unless you're the scum.

[Holy]

@Skruffs: Mafia winning condition and SK winning condition, I believe aren't same. They're bad, but they're competing also. O noez, I acknowledge the SK winning condition, I must be scum! Yeah...

[Holy]

^On Night 1, you said you blocked Zhao.

Mafia-doc possibly protected the mafia-switcher more than the mafia-mason.

Maybe Zhao-mason murdered because suspected as an SK by the Mafia, or simply to avoid suspicions to another mafia-mason.

Now, the SK possible scenario:
1. at the same time, Zhao suspected as Mafia by the SK, or
2. The SK target Phate-theplannermightbescum which protected by the mafia-doc

[Holy]

Concerning Sensfan, I honestly think he's applying a lurk strategy on this game. If he really concerned with the town he would analyse more and give a scumhunting efforts better than just his mere guts. I do believe he's just playing dumb and or busy, but actually he followed this game well.

Holy's "You caught me!" page one probably isn't much of a scum tell. She was sayiong that Korlash was 'her scum' a few times page four, askign him to help her (lynch his scumbuddy). Could have been an attempt to communicate with mafia.
Post 146: Repeatedly refers to 'the scum' after correcting Phate on the abilities of the SK (Which had been mentioned the day before by someone else)... refers to "him", singularly, which makes me think she was inferring both the SK and that the sk is male... (ignoring Jex as possibility, though it could be a grammar thing)
Page 8, speculating only on what the mafia would do... not the SK... doesn't need to speculate on the SK?

Now I can see why you insist that I may be the SK.
Regarding Korlash, I was fooled once by his way of play, but it was another game. Yep, he's my scum until I understand more his play difference as scum or town. But now, I guess I understood more than before of the difference :p
What did you mean exactly with 'the scum'? For me, the scum also implied as the bad role in general, or sometimes as the mafia team. About "him", from that post...did you mean "himself"? I thought anyone would understand what I meant, so I didn't see why I should stressed the "himself/herself" writing, maybe next time it's better to write it as "oneself", hmmm.
The day still early on that time, speculating what a lone-SK would do on day 1 is hard, but mafia as a team can discuss and take benefit from the said plan on the board. But honestly, I thought I was speculating on both probability fairly with 'the scum' general term .

post 203: fishing for DP's full claim shortly after others start claiming for a volunteer for Phate's disaster of a plan (may be unpowered , and thus hoping to get someone else pushed in front before she gets nommed for it, - points)
Later on saying that 'even she' couldn't be sure someone was scum goes against her claim to be an unpowered townie; it makes me think she considered her position in the game special.

DP was claiming and there's a possibility he was an unpowered-scum trying to benefit from the plan, I was only curious about his true intention behind his action.
It was Thanatos that showed his sureness that Phate might be a "scum leading town" who lead an OTM lynch, that's why I asked Thanatos, if he thought Phate is the scum, isn't that means he thought OTM is the town-victim? How could he be so sure about that which concerns me.
(A side note: I learned now that a cruel and speculative scum may also lead his/her own mate lynch ;_; )

I don't think Sensfan SK would claim being a role opener so early in the day.

Why not? Claiming was a trend on Day 2, a chance to look dumb and or pro-town.

I doubt sensfan would have suggested a mass claim as SK, so early on day one. Unecessary attention.

Maybe it was an euphoria slip.

Unvote, Vote : Holy

Sorry miss.

I'm sorry too Sir, I admit I was half neglecting the game since Day 2, but I promise it won't ever happen again Sir. Lol.

[Holy]

@Skruffs: English is not my first language. I know my English is bad, but is it that awful? Hehe...

Okay, I'm convinced enough about the possibility of Sensfan is our last scum. I play with him here and on another game at almost the same time. On both games he played the busy card with a few seems-like-a-pro-town comments. On there, some other players noticed that although he said he's busy, he still actively signed for a new game and posting actively on another thread. I checked (it was day 1), and it was the truth, not much to go on, I only noted it. But with a breadcrumb from a dead player, on Day 2 the town finally decided to lynch him, and we learned he was indeed the scum there. I lynched him not merely because of the breadcrumb though. When that game dawn a 2nd day and almost at the same time this game dawn a 4th day, I felt enough of his lurkness and my almost nothing read on him, so I did a few meta of Sensfan (I didn't do meta much actually, too lazy :p ), hmm from my meta, I don't think he's that busy though ~.^;
Decisively, with his different contribution to this game based from my meta and from the similarity way of play with my other game which proved him as scum, thus

vote: Sensfan

.
PS: When he said he's busy, he was only busy for a couple of days though

[Holy]

MBF's change of character, today, versus yesterday, when the mafia was still alive, is just... it's palpable. Like, I can taste it, on my tongue, the difference. I don't like it.
Is anyone else noticing that?

Hm, from my point of view: his first day and today almost similar. He was GUNG HO yesterday, but possibly it was because he was holding a knowledge that the scum possibly possess an RB role etc. Not really sure.

[Holy]

;_;

Well, townies! Please win.

[Holy]

Believe me, I'm just THAT scummy :p
and not only here, but everywhere I play >.>
No one believe my sincerity ;_; sobs...!

[Holy]

I believe you Holy! ;_; But I was dead... *cries* Why?!?!?! WHYMEEEEEE....

Ok... why else?

O.o you knew about that?

Ok... why else?

SEE NO REASON AT ALL!

You dying was actually a mod mistake

XD So sad..., lol!

Ah~ thank you for believing me... <3

I've had fun here~~~
*waving good bye to all*
[and vanishing with a faint evil grin...] ^_^