The real folk blues [Canceled]

[mhsmith0]

Confirm

[mhsmith0]

Choo choo
VOTE: frozen angel

[mhsmith0]

Quick everyone on frozen before she can fake claim mod and confuse us!

[mhsmith0]

People shit posting without voting frozen is NOTED

[mhsmith0]

Confirming to the firm
Cerb every wall you post is another tear I drop

Cakey seems uncomfortable shit posting, almost...

FROZEN

[mhsmith0]

yes pls shitpost mindhive we become a collective cloud of shitness

People shit posting without voting frozen is NOTED

Confirming to the firm
Cerb every wall you post is another tear I drop

Cakey seems uncomfortable shit posting, almost...

FROZEN

VOTE: mhsmith0[/unvote] just fking stop man

Kraska: more shit posting please
Smith: shot posts and pushes cakey
Kraska: just stop

??? Talk about this progression kraska? Why get annoyed at me for two shit posts after you asked for more shit posts?

[mhsmith0]

I am the shittest of them all mhsmith
Do not denounce your king

I have overthrown your reign of tryanny!

[mhsmith0]

Well you can't ONLY shit post you need to mix in a bit of substance to throw people off

[mhsmith0]

vote:Randomidget

gut sorta makes me lean scum and I wanted my first vote on scum.

based on awkward hello post

VOTE: Frozen Angel
L-1 claim please

or more than that?

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: rb

Blatant scum.

VOTE: rb

Wagoning nacho is fun, but wagoning blatant scum is even more fun

[mhsmith0]

^needed a VOTE: rb lol

[mhsmith0]

smith 1, frozen 0

[mhsmith0]

If everyone could vote the jester that'd be great. Give rb a nice easy win on day 1.

[mhsmith0]

You realise I'm not actually jester, right?

That's irrelevant. You just painted a target on your head for scum that might think there's more than one scum faction.

And this is a problem for you because ____?

[mhsmith0]

Nah, I'll WIFOM them into thinking real wolves would never be that blatant.

[mhsmith0]

Wow, I truly learned so much in the last five minutes. Life-changing, really.

[mhsmith0]

Because you had multiple posts where you were actively talking about why it was a bad idea. So either it's a problem for you or... what? you were just posturing?

[mhsmith0]

rb doesn't strike me as a stupid person, so I was curious why he would do something like that.

If you're curious about why he'd do something like that, why didn't you ask him why he'd do something like that? Your posts on the subject read more like:

"Hey dude that was a really stupid idea"
"No really, you're acting suicidally"
"Eh whatever all I need to know is I'm not voting you today"

You're representing that you had curiosity towards his motives, but what you've actually been saying does not appear to display the curiosity you're claiming. Nor does it really seem to draw any conclusion about his actions, other than "eh whatever, I'm not voting you today". So if the most meaningful conclusions was "not today's problem"...

1) What do you think his motivations behind his behavior were (since it seems that you've reached the important conclusion wrt your voting intentions)
2) What made you draw the "scum can sort you" conclusion in particular? Is it your opinion that he's scum and the other scum faction (if it exists) can (or would be likely to) kill him? Or do you think that his behavior seems towny, and thus would likely draw a bullet due to a town read?

[mhsmith0]

dammit I just missed!

[mhsmith0]

1) What do you think his motivations behind his behavior were (since it seems that you've reached the important conclusion wrt your voting intentions)
2) What made you draw the "scum can sort you" conclusion in particular? Is it your opinion that he's scum and the other scum faction (if it exists) can (or would be likely to) kill him? Or do you think that his behavior seems towny, and thus would likely draw a bullet due to a town read?

This is me ignoring your questions by not ignoring your questions.

Spoiler: Spoilered By request

ftr, not ignoring my questions by answering my questions, instead of ignoring by not ignoring, is my traditionally preferred approach

Edit : GIF was spoilered by request. ~FA

[mhsmith0]

oh sorry sometimes I forget. I don't have edit access but

@Mod: could you spoiler my gif a few posts previous? <3

[mhsmith0]

@rb: it doesn't count unless your pagetop has a in it

[mhsmith0]

on the upside it's a page bottom so easily ignored. but yeah sorry about that

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhgsmith
That gif was fucking awful

Do you have a ballpark estimate of when you're going to start contributing? Or is this actually intended to pass for analysis?

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhgsmith
That gif was fucking awful

Does it make him scum?

Ofcourse

The theory behind it being ____?

[mhsmith0]

lol kraska is scum

I want to see what she has to say when she's actually participating, but yeah she's an early for real scum lean.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: norvicosbin [/vpte] stop asking dumb questions

Except that wasn't a dumb question. Your vote was RVS-level; it's reasonable to question whether it was real or just RVS silliness.

I'd actually venture that both of House's questions (170 and 209) were fine; my issue there is more that I'd actually expect more (or any) questions from him to rb given their engagement.

[mhsmith0]

lol kraska is scum

I want to see what she has to say when she's actually participating, but yeah she's an early for real scum lean.

Fuck that.

VOTE: kraska

Blood for the blood gods!

Sure.

VOTE: kraska

Skulls for the skull throne!

[mhsmith0]

and dw, we have 2 conftown now so we just have to lynch from the other...30

Who's dw?

[mhsmith0]

Blood for the blood god

s

!

That's supposed to be singular. Khorne will not be happy...

[mhsmith0]

I'm trying to figure out whether Nero is actually terrible enough to needlessly out both himself and kraska as real masons when his mason buddy was at something like L-12. I tentatively say no.

[mhsmith0]

Anyway I'm going to bed. Night all.

[mhsmith0]

It is a tentative read so far but feel like KTS could be town he is already invested enough to get ticked off at the hyperposters and that means he is genuinely trying to sort shit out.

It is a tentative read so far but feel like Rach could be scum she isn't invested enough to make real reads and just drops off a lazy kts town read and that means she isn't genuinely trying to sort shit out.

VOTE: rachmarie

[mhsmith0]

lol that's hilarious.

@diamond: were not policying d1 for being a player you don't like. Make a scum case on her if you want her gone.

[mhsmith0]

Policying someone for specific behavior (especially if meaningfully wolf indicative) is acceptable. Policying because you don't like them isn't. Diamonds comment might be the latter.

[mhsmith0]

^suggested it might be the latter

[mhsmith0]

Anyone who claims that they are obvtown but doesn't even try to prove it should be shot and killed immediately in my book.

It's kts though. He did the same dumb shit in open 646. Null on him.

[mhsmith0]

I finished reading the thread.

Town: DS, mhsmith0, Cerberus, Yumeslot
Slight town: The Ascended Masters, rb, Road Kamelot, Vifam, SirCakez
Null: everyone else including Killthestory, Vedith, Skrub
Slight scum: Drixx, Nosferatu, kraska, SpyreX
Scum: Maker of Zanos, RachMarie

Why DS as strong town? I'm starting to catch, and his stuff around 730 or so was super unimpressive. What makes him (presumably) your #1 town read?

Why Zanos as wolf instead of just bad? I've played with both Ircher and BTD6_Maker when they were town, and frankly "Mislynch Bait Twins" would be a better name for their hydra. I feel like if they were wolves it'd be pretty obvious (with the caveat that they might be getting decent coaching in day-chat, if that's something on the table in this game), and at this point, I don't see it being especially obvious.

[mhsmith0]

@Diamond:

We thought the rest of you would respect me more if we did it, so she worked in the background while I posted her opinions along with mine in public.

Ok, first off, this pissed me off, exceptionally much, even for Titus and Yume.

Why did this piss you off? Like, I could see this as being a bit annoying, but why is it suddenly horrible or rage-inducing for one head of a hydra to fake signing as the other head? This just seems like an over-reaction to the post unless there's meaningful shared history here that I'm missing.

Spoiler:

lol that's hilarious.

@diamond: were not policying d1 for being a player you don't like. Make a scum case on her if you want her gone.

Policying someone for specific behavior (especially if meaningfully wolf indicative) is acceptable. Policying because you don't like them isn't. Diamonds comment might be the latter.

Im not a fan of pretending to be one's hydra partner on purpose but its whatever im not gonna press it
Lets just lynch scum Skrub, thatd be a productive thing to do today
Look at that reaction to the wagon

pedit: Because it results in the above ^^^^ Sorry Frozen, I'm sure this will settle down in a lil bit

All 3 of these posts REALLY look like scum defending scumbuddies.

But again, thi sis less than 2 days in.

DS: Let's policy yume
Me: It sounds like you just don't like her, you need to actually bother making a case here
DS: That's how scum-buddies would defend each other

Like, how does that even make sense? You think that if I was teammates with Yume my objection would be that you didn't have a case, even though said objection would be easy to overcome if you actually, you know, bothered to make a case?

Spoiler:

Also, I read that WoTC thread and I am angry at how you treat my other half. I am your judge, jury, and executioner. Now are you gonna apologize or face Peridot-style court? And trust me, Peridot-style court ain't pleasant.

~Peridot

Fuck no.

To clarify: I'm not going to apologize in this game for our of game behavior.

Using out of game behavior as an excuse to lynch me would be mighty scummy.

So, "judge, jury, and executioner", do what you think you should.

Very very townie post.

Umm... how? What about that post do you think is non-fakeable, or game-solving, or in any way meaningfully town-indicative?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Skrub
I had the same vibes. Early caught scum, go go go

And again, another scummy post from RK. After seeing how terribly this wagon formed, I pretty confidently can say Skrub is lynchbait.

VOTE: Skrub
I had the same vibes. Early caught scum, go go go

Ok, so, some final comments after re-skimming the thread.

Fuck RK. She is the most blatant scum I have ever seen. I will bet $5 billion dollars that she's a scumfuck. VOTE: RK
Nero's intro annoyed me to all hell, but the rest of his posts don't point scum. He sits at a null!town.
KTS also deserves death. Regardless if he is scum pulling a PV (also, wasn't that lurking bastard in this game?) or if he's just a shitposter, then he needs to be vigged ASAP (As soon as Pyoom like a bullet! (name that reference))

These two posts are two minutes apart. Presumably the re-read had been done before the set of posts (including the ones before this pair) started going, but it's a weird transition between these two posts. Like, the first one is maybe a bit annoyed, and reads as being game-solving, making an alignment read on Skrub based on RK's behavior. And the second just seems like a sudden over the top transition. Does anyone have history with DS? Does normally he make these weird emotional hops quickly when town? When I read it, it seems fake to me, but this may just be a function of a weird playstyle on his end.

[mhsmith0]

Skrub seems fine; his reaction to getting voted is INCENSED TOWNIE RAGE.

??? I read his reactions as being more "lol this wagon is stupid" (which seems fairly null to me). What in particular makes you think there's anger in his posts about being wagoned, and that said anger is necessarily villagery?

[mhsmith0]

^nevermind, I see nacho talking about this in 887 and others. I'd say "INCENSED TOWNIE RAGE" is overstated, and I still don't especially see his reaction as strongly villagery (null in my book), but I guess nacho's interpretation isn't necessarily BS.

[mhsmith0]

DS is a mild scum read for me at this point. Not a huge priority sort but I don't see the obv!town there. MoZ just seems bad rather than obv!wolf to me, and the IMO self-vote continues along that vein. Some of that may simply be me being over-sensitive to that after watching Ranger pull similar shit as town in open 642 (including the shitty self-vote), but I'm starting to come around the idea that shit like that actually does come more often from town, even though it never ever ever should. In this case, it's conceivable that they're scum/SK giving up, but it's also plausible that they're town giving up. I know Ircher (who I think was making those posts) is bugged by being a lynchbait type, so I can reasonably see him getting pissy and pulling a stunt like that out of frustration at being wagoned. Obviously it could be him pulling a scam and faking it, but I just don't see why it's wolf-indicative instead of essentially null. I'd still much rather wagon RachMarie at this point.

[mhsmith0]

@ Rach...

Why are we giving a pass to MoZ

I just read his ISO

VOTE: MoZ

This is the sort of thing that normally comes with something better than "their ISO sucks". What about their ISO sucks? You seem to not really be able to explain what exactly you're finding voteable.
You talk a bit about it in

@ Nacho
1. The way they are moving their vote around looks like they are looking for a good wagon, not looking for scumz
2. The freaky color vote thing looked like they were trying to appear to be town and trolling, it did not feel genuine the way Nero's trolling does,
3. The way they threw shade on KTS but did not vote for him seems scummy AF

but
1) you aren't addressing the possibility that moving their vote around might be part of a process to look for a good wolf wagon, or for that matter, separating them from anyone else's vote hopping.
2) The "freaky color vote thing" ( http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8421517 ) seems like the epitome of a playstyle thing; calling it AI just seems bizarre;
3) I presume you mean this

...
This totally not troll KTS we're seeing here. He's actually being useful for once, but I fear that is because he is scum.....
~Zanos ~Zanos ~Zanos

but I fail to see how this is AI. It's essentially expressing a mild scum read on the slot; failing to vote for what is presented as a mild scum read (and one that is essentially paranoia-driven) is not in and of itself suspicious

Frankly, none of those seem like particularly good reasons for voting them; to me it seems a lot more like you're going survivalistic and looking for an easy target to try and buy another day off of.

It is a tentative read so far but feel like KTS could be town he is already invested enough to get ticked off at the hyperposters and that means he is genuinely trying to sort shit out.

It is a tentative read so far but feel like Rach could be scum she isn't invested enough to make real reads and just drops off a lazy kts town read and that means she isn't genuinely trying to sort shit out.

VOTE: rachmarie

adding smith to my scum pile as well this pinged my scumdar this vote on me sucks, plus like MoZ she keeps flipping her vote around.

What about the vote sucks? Surely if you find my vote on you to be itself vote-worthy, you can actually explain what about it "sucks". I personally thought it to be a solid vote, mainly for the content (wolf-reading you becuase of the lazy read you made) but I also liked the snarky way I turned around your language relating to KTS. Nothing about it seems off, and it seems like you just want to shade it as somehow being a bad vote without actually doing the work to demonstrate that it's actually a bad vote.
I also don't see your point about vote-hopping (you were my 4th vote, with my 1st being a joke vote on the mod and the 2nd being near-RVS level). Nor do I see how vote-hopping is itself wolf-indicative, unless you think that I'm just lazily bandwagoning (which would be weird considering that I was the first vote on you), or that something else in particular about my vote movement seems wolfy. It seems like you're struggling to make a case on why your pushes make sense, which to me suggests that they're probably just made up.
PS I'm a he. You can see it right there in the box where my user info is.

[mhsmith0]

TLDR version: vote Rach.

[mhsmith0]

I don't need the TLDR I am going to read Sunday morning. Go to D&D then Read Sunday.

The question is why do you think I'd ever do a naked vote on someone without reading?

That was @RB

[mhsmith0]

i.e. he was bitching about my wall post so I gave him the TLDR version.

[mhsmith0]

In the meantime while I'm dreaming of ending this day within a reasonable amount of time, I'd like to hear fancy reads (if you have special reasons for killing them or you'd argue their wagon if it popped up) on these people:

1. randomidget
5. Space Dandy [Hydra of Varsoon and Shiro]
6. DrippingGoofball
7. Albert B. Rampage
8. Road Kamelot
11. Mirhawk
14. Klingoncelt
15. Vedith
18. grapes
20. SirCakez
23. PeregrineV
24. davesaz
29. Nosferatu
32. Giovanni il Pellegrino

With the common thread being most (all?) of the people on the list have low post counts, this is a

scum

point of view.
The #1 reason to lynch is obv scum. If you don't have obv scum, the #2 reason is information.
Any strategy that removes people from the game without giving information is a scum strategy.

You're disagreeing purely based on theory, how could that possibly be alignment indicative? SpyreX and pisskop have also expressed similar ideas

Where is the scum motivation in that?

Please try and catch up with as much of the thread as you can.

I'd actually go a bit further and say it's actively reaching and possibly a misrep.

TAM: I want reads and info on our lurkers, and if you have a sexy case for lurking one of them cool.
Davesaz: you're trying to remove people without giving info.

It's just such a bizarre interpretation of the original post, as if he's trying to shoehorn a scum read in there instead of actually taking the time and energy to understand the point. Davesaz is now a scum read for me.

[mhsmith0]

Fuck off.
Lynching without information is scum motivated.
Period.
I always have a reason for everything I post.

The point is TAM wasn't saying that they wanted to lynch without info. If anything, they're looking for more info by expanding the pool of people who are being talked about. I don't see how you can reasonably arrive at the interpretation of their post that you offered, which suggests it was a strategic read instead of an honest one.

[mhsmith0]

am slanking. will check in tomorrow night.

[mhsmith0]

or if I need game-related content: maybe next time don't lynch a known lynchbait 3 days into a 2 week day phase game? (and yes there was too much crap on the thread on D1, but the solution is to post less crap, not ram through a quick lynch). I don't even know who's wolfy on that wagon (didn't bother re-reading overnight), but that thing was lazy as fuck. I don't have a great sense of Ircher's wolf range, but bitching about being scum read in a way that does nothing to defray suspicions is well within his villager range. And I'm quite curious how many people here have played with him often enough that they ought to be aware of this.

[mhsmith0]

I wouldn't be opposed to a KTS lynch. You help me get more people, and I'll gladly join that wagon.

PEdit: Metal Gear Solid V Mafia. You, me, T-Bone, and somebody else were all the scum team and we literally led lynches on you 3 days in order to give us the win, since you were unkillable.

Just looked that one over. I think my goal was to strategically lurk to draw scumreads on my and push for my (ineffectual) lynch.

Currently, I'm neither scum nor unkillable nor lurking.

Yes... That's what you have done literally every game I've been in with you. That makes COMPLETE SENSE.

God, now you're just lying out your ass.

There is no PereV wagon???

Why should there be a PV wagon? Like, PV lurks and is pretty useless as either alignment (see: Wake's role madness), and he just said the sort of stupid thing that got the Ircher/BTD hydra lynched as lynchbait. Is there a case on PV beyond that? I mean, as lurky as he's been (the mod has more than 3x his posts which is hilarious), he's not the low poster of the game. Per activity summary, he's at 18 posts, you're at 7, varsoon/shiro is at 4, random is at 13, and nos is at 14. Drixx is also at 12, but the hydra had >50 posts before House outed. So unless there's more to a PV read than "let's lynch the lurky lurker who's lurking like usual", that seems like a null slot, not a obvious wagon. What am I missing?

[mhsmith0]

At some point PV will need to be sorted. My point is that DGB's "why isn't there a PV wagon right now" bit was weird given that PV's doing what he seemingly always does (not to mention that DGB is lurking even harder than PV).

I'll try and spend time reading in detail tomorrow; I'd took a quick skim and that seemed pretty odd, but I do need to actually spend time getting caught up.

[mhsmith0]

@kraska: why didn't you claim PGO on D1, given that this was a large theme with potentially a bunch of investigatives or other visiting town PR's?

[mhsmith0]

Or you can get PV to get PGO'd while vigging you this time lol

[mhsmith0]

Hi kts!

[mhsmith0]

Does dgb normally lurk like this? Because my sense is her lurking is different from normal while pvs isn't, and if lurking really is her main issue w PV, that seems bizarre to call the kettle black.

[mhsmith0]

I think the first thing to establish is do we believe Varsoon when he says this was accidental?

Strange thing to say here. Why not see what he says first and then go from there?

[mhsmith0]

Why? You think Cerb is bussing Dandy here?

[mhsmith0]

So "this" was the inactivity? I thought you were talking about the role knowledge in that post.

[mhsmith0]

It was more that Panzerjager was voting Dandy and then calling for your lynch tomorrow. So unless they thought you're both scum together (or maybe different scum teams?) it seemed like a strange thing to say.

[mhsmith0]

I think the first thing to establish is do we believe Varsoon when he says this was accidental?

Strange thing to say here. Why not see what he says first and then go from there?

^ that was from the persepctive of me thinking you meant the role knowledge bit, which did seem like possible shade throwing (in advance of them coming back and talking about it), which sort of suggested an attack.

[mhsmith0]

Why math? Yume/Titus antics seemed like normal town!titus. Being a hydra makes it a weaker read, but the "look at me" type of stuff they were up to seems way more in the town!titus range than wolf!titus. I haven't paid all that much attention to Math themselves but they seemed kind of normal too. Am I missing something?

[mhsmith0]

If we're policy lynching people, DrippingGoofball should be next

For the extreme lurking? Does anyone have enough familliarity with her to know if it's particularly alignment indicative for her? I know in the Wake role madness she was wolf and posted a pretty reasonable amount (and saw her as town in open 642 and she posted a fair amount there too), so this strikes me off the top of my head as null.

[mhsmith0]

Seems like almost half the game is lurking at this point.

[mhsmith0]

Agreed. Multi-ball seems reasonably likely given the game size. I'd guess not multi-ball AND SK (I'd say you need 40 ish for that to work effectively), but two scum teams is a reasonable guess. Maybe one scum team and SK is possible too, though SK in a game this size is kind of sucky to draw someone (unless that someone is Elyse lol)

[mhsmith0]

I think part of it might be a reaction to the overly quick lynch of Maker. Probably people were hoping they'd get an easy guilty or a vig on scum or something easy to hop onto on day 2 (in wake's town was basically drowning in easy guilties early on, which was lol to watch)

[mhsmith0]

Hey, Smith.

My top priority of today is bringing you into the collective in order to replace brothers Vifam and rb, or, if that is not possible because you are dirty dirty scum, end your game today. I liked a few of your posts yesterday, but I was a bit weirded out by you not responding to my call for a Zanos town case (I assume you didn't see it), and I didn't understand where your drive to solve the game went if you didn't share the mindset that I did of ending the day in a reasonable amount of time.

I'll go through your posts in depth later when I have the time, but I'd appreciate it if you talked to me about some reads that you care about before that time comes.

TAM, you said sorting me was your top priority today, but I haven't seen you discuss me since.

wrt Maker, I didn't realize that there was going to be a quick lynch there (my last post of the day came at like L-8 or so), and while I didn't especially love the case against someone who is (again) known lynchbait, I didn't think they were obv!town or the like. I'm actually curious who here is familiar with town!ircher and/or town!btd, since I feel like there ought to have been people around who'd have been cautious about running them up for what (I think) essentially boiled down to a case about them playing badly.

I'll try to spend some time tonight catching up in more detail, but I'll probably end up skimming a lot.

[mhsmith0]

@mod: V/LA until Thursday.

[mhsmith0]

3) There is scum in our hood and Mirhawk keeps insisting it is not the case and posting terribad bullshit in there.

Can other people in the hood back this up? I'm guessing at this point that the hood is public knowledge but at >100 pages I'm not going to dig around to find it.

[mhsmith0]

^i.e. the list of people in the hood

[mhsmith0]

^i.e. the list of people in the hood

It's Vifam (formerly), Mathblade, Mirhawk, Panzer, davesaz

Panzer and davesaz: you guys agree with

3) There is scum in our hood and Mirhawk keeps insisting it is not the case and posting terribad bullshit in there.

?

Neither of you have seemed interested in pushing Mirhawk in thread so I'm curious if you agree with math's take here, or if you think they're just wrong, or if you think they're bullshitting.

[mhsmith0]

Shit posting and "terribad bullshit" are different. My read of maths point was that mirhawk was being full of shit in a fake game solving manner, not just casual jokey shit posting. You read that differently?

[mhsmith0]

lurking, strong armed a town lynch. Thats like Nacho scum meta.

@nero, cakey: both of you have basically made this point. Can you give a good example of nacho doing this in a relatively large game? Mini if needed but preferably a large of some sort. I'll look at comparable ISO when I have time, but I'm not motivated to go hunting through a bunch of games that may or may not even be relevant.

[mhsmith0]

Hey, Smith.

My top priority of today is bringing you into the collective in order to replace brothers Vifam and rb, or, if that is not possible because you are dirty dirty scum, end your game today. I liked a few of your posts yesterday, but I was a bit weirded out by you not responding to my call for a Zanos town case (I assume you didn't see it), and I didn't understand where your drive to solve the game went if you didn't share the mindset that I did of ending the day in a reasonable amount of time.

I'll go through your posts in depth later when I have the time, but I'd appreciate it if you talked to me about some reads that you care about before that time comes.

TAM, you said sorting me was your top priority today, but I haven't seen you discuss me since.

wrt Maker, I didn't realize that there was going to be a quick lynch there (my last post of the day came at like L-8 or so), and while I didn't especially love the case against someone who is (again) known lynchbait, I didn't think they were obv!town or the like. I'm actually curious who here is familiar with town!ircher and/or town!btd, since I feel like there ought to have been people around who'd have been cautious about running them up for what (I think) essentially boiled down to a case about them playing badly.

I'll try to spend some time tonight catching up in more detail, but I'll probably end up skimming a lot.

I said that I was going to sort you and then you went on V/LA; I figured waiting until you got back was only polite.

You feel completely different than you do on Mafiauniverse, I haven't even seen a glimpse of that town!smith drive, that town!smith hunger. And I understand I have to be careful about not getting spoiled because it's a slower meta here and because there's a lot of shit to sift through and it's not just the bros here anymore but I was hoping we could be the murder brigade together and plow through some scum and then we didn't sync N1 and I am left feeling like you and I aren't clicking because you've been talking to some other girls on all of those late nights you've been having lately.

I'll probably go through your posts later when I have a little more time and the wolves have stopped shouting for my blood for a little while but right now the big concern is "why are you so different?".

Basically larges aren't hugely my thing and the sheer volume of (largely shit) posts make it difficult to sift through everything, plus I was in vegas this past week. I'd come up with a cooler excuse but that's basically the story.

[mhsmith0]

Nos has an atrocious ISO.

Hmm...

Nos as scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Nos as town in a large
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Kind of lurky as town in the large, took quite a while to get going and be useful. But yeah, she's been unusually useless this game, even compared to her large town showing.

[mhsmith0]

I literally just explained why I can say almost 100% certainty that there isn't an SK in this game.

Oh, I forgot.

There can't be an SK because 1:31 odds aren't fair.

I'm not buying.

I believe there was just a 42 player game the SK won. Maybe modded by House.
I'm not saying it's fair, but it's also not impossible.

It was modded by Wake.

He and House really aren't the same guy, honest.

Fwiw the sk was my addition. Went from 32:5:5 easy town win to 29:6:6:1 and a very narrow sk win (and LOL anyone who thought that elyse had an easy path; she had to NARROWLY walk the path of neither town nor either group scum team crushing, AND she was screwed as ascetic if any info powers targeted her, and there were a shit load of investigatives in the game). Elyse did great that game, though honestly town blew it in a number of ways too.

[mhsmith0]

I kind of like the tone of some of randoms shit posting. The lurking obviously sucks, but it doesn't especially remind me of the GOT game we had together. I don't really get why he stands out as being a better lynch than other lurkers.

Would rather lynch nos as she was actually interesting and engaging in mini 1782 as town, and I don't think the extreme uselessness fits what I expect from town!her.

If someone wants to bottom line the cases on the main wagons and sell me there I'll think on it, but I'm kinda null on nacho hydra (the "I'm totally prioritizing smith while NAI asking questions of him or if others about him or commenting on him at all" bit looked like bullshit, but I don't especially hate him overall). I kind of do agree with the DADV take on khrub; they've hung around long enough without a strong counter that I think it's especially likely they're our guy.

TLDR: CFD here sheeple

VOTE: nosferatu

[mhsmith0]

Also, mathblade is town so DS can piss off on that vanity wagon.

[mhsmith0]

Just swing your vote on to TAM. It's your best bet for not being mislynch today #coachemup

Why TAM?

Because he's a wagon counter to you. At this point the race has been narrowed down to a 2 or 3 horse race(depending about how you feel about Kraska/mirhawk - which should really be condensed into 1 wagon because one is only scum if the other is scum) unless there is a mass exodus off one of those wagons on to an unsuspecting scumslipper(varsoon/rm pref) then regardless of your alignment it's in your best interest to put your vote on one of the other horses. I think Kraska/mirhawk is town and teaches us way less than a TAM lynch. Numerous people have acted p shady around his wagon and unless you are aggressively acting against your alignment then that is the best lynch IMO.

Alright

VOTE: the ascended masters

So what convinced you of them being likely scum? Or is this essentially just a survival vote?

[mhsmith0]

My stance on Nos is they will lurk and be useless regardless of alignment so they are a stupid lynch. Now if we wanted to lynch a scummy lurker we could lynch RM. Random more than Rach at this point.

Nero read the game or stop talking. I'm not lurking anymore and rach has been replaced. Nice faking of reads tho

you're still pretty much lurking and rach hasn't been replaced (yet anyway). Oh for two pal.

[mhsmith0]

Kids TV Show Characters Mafia

Nacho, what do you think of that as a comparable to you this game? Is cakey just bullshitting or does he have a point? I'll get around to skimming it at some point but wanted your take first.

[mhsmith0]

Oh, and Nero:

This is a game with Nosferatu as town not being useless. You're implying that they're always like this, but that isn't at all the case.

This is another one
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=65928

Ps thought nos was a she. Is that wrong?

[mhsmith0]

My stance on Nos is they will lurk and be useless regardless of alignment so they are a stupid lynch. Now if we wanted to lynch a scummy lurker we could lynch RM. Random more than Rach at this point.

Nero read the game or stop talking. I'm not lurking anymore and rach has been replaced. Nice faking of reads tho

I didn't see that Rach was replaced.

Whoa. msh if I didnt townread you id called you the pot.

? what does "id called you the pot" mean?

[mhsmith0]

hunh.

funny that.

p: Id say you were lurking and doing nothing much

Oh well that's fair to some degree. I'm definitely not WIMing it up this game, though I'd say my activity is probably around average for the board, maybe a touch below.

[mhsmith0]

Although wrt random my point wasn't so much that he was lurking as it was that he was lurking while claiming it to be, also that he was wrong about rach status while attacking Nero for not being aware of rach's status.

[mhsmith0]

^while claiming not to be

[mhsmith0]

I think Random is likely scum and was lashing out at me to throw shade on me. Rach was prodded and if she doesn't rerespond she'll be replaced so if you tilt your head just right the he is sorta right but I still think attacking me like that is scum motivated.

Almost seems too wolfy to be a wolf though. Like, what's the point of attacking you there when you're not a wagon and rach (who's being discussed) isn't either? I mean, I guess it could just be scum playing badly, but I'd think that attacking you for being wrong on the facts when he himself was wrong on the facts is just bad play in and of itself and not especially AI.

[mhsmith0]

Which isn't to say that random is a town read, just that that moment in and of itself strikes me as null/bad play and nit necessarily wolfy. If there isn't day chat I'd be more suspicious, but my sense is larges usually have day chat. Is that correct?

[mhsmith0]

Which isn't to say that random is a town read, just that that moment in and of itself strikes me as null/bad play and nit necessarily wolfy. If there isn't day chat I'd be more suspicious, but my sense is larges usually have day chat. Is that correct?

yes but it wouldn't be suspicious without day chat either

Without day chat he'd be lying on his own more, and I could see the need to produce "content" or an overreaction to shade thrown as possible reasons to suspect him. With day chat, though, it'd surprise me more. Like, what's the point of saying something that's very obviously going to make himself look bad? I'd expect him to bring it up in day chat there as opposed to reacting itt, unless we're dealing with lol wolves here.

[mhsmith0]

^flying on his own

[mhsmith0]

My stance on Nos is they will lurk and be useless regardless of alignment so they are a stupid lynch. Now if we wanted to lynch a scummy lurker we could lynch RM. Random more than Rach at this point.

I take great offense to this.

Is that seriously all you have to say on that?

[mhsmith0]

Which isn't to say that random is a town read, just that that moment in and of itself strikes me as null/bad play and nit necessarily wolfy. If there isn't day chat I'd be more suspicious, but my sense is larges usually have day chat. Is that correct?

yes but it wouldn't be suspicious without day chat either

Without day chat he'd be lying on his own more, and I could see the need to produce "content" or an overreaction to shade thrown as possible reasons to suspect him. With day chat, though, it'd surprise me more. Like, what's the point of saying something that's very obviously going to make himself look bad? I'd expect him to bring it up in day chat there as opposed to reacting itt, unless we're dealing with lol wolves here.

I find that reasoning weak and reachy. People say things that are blatantly wrong all the time but unfortunately it's not always alignment indicative. I don't think that there's scum motivation for saying that Rach was replaced. Do you?

If he is feeling the need to produce content, and said content is bad, I can conceive of scum motivation behind his inability to produce better content, and the need to look like he's doing stuff. But like I said. I think it's much more bad play than AI.

[mhsmith0]

Because that gives us information going into the night. Additionally, lurkers should be nightvigged, not dayvigged. Dayvigs should be treated as a second lynch.

If you want to know why lurkers shouldn't be lynched, and should be vigged, see Metal Gear Solid V Mafia. 3 days were wasted by trying to lynch a lurker (who admitedly was lynchproof). If they had tried to vig PV instead of lynching him, then they might have had a chance of winning that game.

Using a town trying to lynch someone who is lynchproof three days in a row as an example of why lurkers shouldn't be lynched is sort of silly, don't you think? Town got punished for lynching PV because he was lynchproof, not because he was a lurker.

You get information when you lynch scum. You don't get the same level of information when you lynch town.

That's 100% false. You get just as much information for lynching town as you do for lynching scum.

First of all, when a town is strongarmed early in the game, more than likely, the biggest people pushing for that lynch are town. Yadda yadda yadda long story short town lynches give information if you know what to look for.

So since it seems like you're representing a nacho lynch as being for info, who looks better or worse from a town/wolf flip and why? "lynches give info" can justify and lynch at all.

Ps for that matter, since lynch info matters to you, what did you think you learned from the MOZ lynch? Who are the villagers who strognarmed that one?

[mhsmith0]

Hey Nero who strongarmed the MoZ lynch yesterday? Asking for a friend.

you

And according to DS that makes TAM town, yet ds is voting for TAM. There seems to be dissonance between his stated values and his current votes, unless he thinks that nacho strong armed the lynch in a wolfy way, or that other villagers were the real strongarmers. It could be he's too lazy to read into d1 lynch, but that is also dissonant with his stated desire to lynch for info. If he's truly lynching for info, he'd be analyzing prior lynches and using the info that he said he values.

[mhsmith0]

You think scum theater? What in particular makes you think this?

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Damn!

[mhsmith0]

Both of these Nos votes suck

How so? Do you think rach is over-explaining, or is it something else?
And it sure what you're getting at with vax- just that he's anti nacho lynch? More than that?

[mhsmith0]

Well I'm on nos, and nos is now a wagon, so...

[mhsmith0]

Lol nice try!

A game of

inches

seconds

[mhsmith0]

Im mildly discomfited by how easily this wagon has taken off, but nos ISO still sucks so hopefully either she's being bussed or this is mainly town.

[mhsmith0]

Math, do you think nos wagon sucks because of people on it or because you think nos is town based on her ISO?

[mhsmith0]

In other news Rach Marie is scum like I said before. Rach Marie doesn't want to be known for being a tag on to a likely mislynch so she starts her own wagon. Rach Marie as conf town in Wake's posted cases on players in the game and how she reached her conclusions and in general reads.

Nos wagon sucks we should be lynching Kraska.

And what do you mean by starting her own wagon? She was I think 5th on nos.

[mhsmith0]

@nacho: according to your list I'm a likely wolf, but you're perfectly happy to sit on the nos wagon I started. What's your head space here? Bussing? Different wolf teams? V/w?

[mhsmith0]

I said

Shutup

Scum slip IMHO because I am PDS that Kraska wouldn't tell anyone in a public thread to shut up. Probably meant to her buddies.

I think it's pretty consistent with the pissiness she's been showing recently. Also "scum slips" are garbage like 90% of the time.

[mhsmith0]

God damn it why don't roles follow the fucking wiki?!?!?!

Is this a question from me or not? Please bold if you want to ask a question from me. thanks.

Apparently Math is a frozen alt

[mhsmith0]

While not an expert at reading Math in particular, her blowup over this reminds me a lot of her blowup over "normal" roles in Wake's games that turned out to only sort of debatably being normal, with my needing to very explicitly point out that I hadn't reviewed it for normalcy so it totally could have been something non-normal (and then A50 thinking that somehow it was my idea to have the role function that way, because I'd totally override the mod's design in order to explicitly insert a non-normal function into a game he said was normalish)

[mhsmith0]

There is no way an experienced player like Kraska would forget to claim PGO.

I'm an experienced player, I probably wouldn't have claimed pgo day 1.

In a large theme that could very well be something close to role madness with a bunch of visiting town roles? Like, I can get the idea that kraska simply screwed up, but I don't see how not claiming that in this kind of game is any kind of good play.

[mhsmith0]

Because TAM is scum and I feel that if we lynch Nos here that the town will be in an irreparable hole.

irreperable hole? on a day 2 lynch?

[mhsmith0]

like, obviously we want to lynch scum, but that seems weirdly over-done for a situation where I would presume it's gonna take at least around half of the days of the game being ML's for us to lose

[mhsmith0]

Can we not just hammer already?

I think we're a few votes away, and at any rate a pre-hammer claim would be preferable. Not like the day is about to end and we need to turbo hammer.

[mhsmith0]

Or with a decent claim, we could even lynch Rach today!

[mhsmith0]

yeah and nos has been sufficiently useless that I'm fine with her dying. but if she has a decent claim, then I'm fine seeing if we can get rach to swing instead. 2 days ought ot be plenty of time.

[mhsmith0]

I've got a minor business emergency so I'll be sitewide v/la until sometime Friday

[mhsmith0]

Sorry this happened frozen

On a happier note, after joke vote phase smith voted three layers only
Rach
Kraska
Nos

All wolves.

Smith GOAT

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Probably, yes
We were going to kill Abr and panzer next btw (thinking they're town. Bc we thought there were like 1 or 2 other scum in the game. I didn't expect another team of 5)

Sounds like town was gonna win then I think. Cross-kills in multi-ball helpmtown a lot.

[mhsmith0]

If nos went down (and it seemed likely), then scum team #1 was in big trouble. If scum team #2 cross-killed, then town doing even better. Overall town was doing ok and decent faves to win based on game state, barring bad PR play or something (lol gunsmith outing d1 in compromised thread btw)

[mhsmith0]

Yeah dude I didn't really think there was scum in the PT with us lol, I died anyway so it had no real effect on anything tho.

You died because you outed though. Probably a decent indication not to do that, since MOST large hoods are compromised in large themes barring explicit mod statements of clears.

[mhsmith0]

Doesn't really matter tho, more for learning for the future.

[mhsmith0]

It was DS who was in contract w other scum.

[mhsmith0]

Or maybe one if his teammates, i forget. But kraska shot u due to gs claim.

[mhsmith0]

oh dude that's wack as fuck, oh well

Eh no biggie. Just something to note for future (unless I'm a wolf then out away )

[mhsmith0]

Really? There was as a scum from your team there, I just assumed. Super coincidence then I guess,

[mhsmith0]

Yeah dude I didn't really think there was scum in the PT with us lol, I died anyway so it had no real effect on anything tho.

You died because you outed though. Probably a decent indication not to do that, since MOST large hoods are compromised in large themes barring explicit mod statements of clears.

/me hugs

I like you

u2

[mhsmith0]

Translation: frozen needs time to add a bunch of

To each thread

[mhsmith0]

If anyone wants to remove a certain post from a pt tell me.

and headsup : I won't remove any communication - just your role claims and whatever.

Please remove post #87 from the Nos/Rach scum chat. I have no idea what is in that post, or even if it exists, I just want it removed

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

It's very clear that the setup was drastically scum sided and therefore I can count it as a win despite cancellation

[mhsmith0]

I can speak for this very well from experience co-modding one. It can be a substantial amount of work.

Ditto playing in it tbh, part of why my activity was on the low side compared to normal was there was just a lot to read through and absorb.

[mhsmith0]

smith 1, frozen 0

I think this was the final score, right?

[mhsmith0]

^Translation: I lost but refuse to acknowledge this

[mhsmith0]

The setup relevant stuff has been removed, fwiw.

[mhsmith0]

/in to be scumread again for "not doing enough"
double bonus points if all I do is push on scum while I'm alive