Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[QuickBen]

/confirm

[QuickBen]

vote cole

Got you for Christmas last year and I was none too happy.

[QuickBen]

unvote, vote Zhao

Just to keep things neat.

Welcome to the game and my vote stays till you post in limerick form. (I just couldn't help myself.)

Oh, and BOOOO on the mass claim idea. Just suggesting that nearly blew up my scumdar. Outing power roles on day one = bad.

[QuickBen]

Based on his "Townsperson" status and the fact that he has committed at least one other newb mistake (in another game), I'm almost willing to let sensfan off the hook if he can at least give some more info on his thought process for suggesting mass claim.

And before anyone asks, I'm not moving my vote till I get that limerick, otherwise it would be on sensfan till he comes back and explains to my satisfaction.

[QuickBen]

@Korlash- I'm sorry I'm making you look bad. Damn my devilish charm and good looks!

@Sensfan- I can't discuss it because its in an active game where you're dead and I'm still alive. (I'll just say that I know you would vig on night 0 and leave it at that. It may have worked for you this time around, but its still a bad play statistically speaking.)

[QuickBen]

Oh, and I'm moving this weekend so my access will be spotty if at all.

[QuickBen]

Wow. I thought I had OD'd on turkey for a minute there.

unvote

I see a Cunning Plan has been proposed.

After looking it over, I don't see how it will work really. I'm willing to go along with it, but I see a lot of "if's" needing to happen in order for it to work.

If the reopener isn't scum...
If the scum and sk don't kill the reopener/switcher/doc early on...

Another problem is that the cop's investigations might not be passed on to his or her successor. If the scum kill the cop early on, the switcher would have to work to outwit them on his own (provided he isn't scum). There's just too much WIFOM for us to really debate it.

*IF* we can get our ducks in a row, *AND* we lucked out on getting all the power roles, *AND* the scum and sk don't get lucky, *THEN* this plan has a good chance of breaking the game.

I guess I'm willing to go forward with this plan until someone can improve on it or come up with something better.

[QuickBen]

I guess mainly because the reopener is our only chance to fix any booboos in lynching or make up for a power role killed in the night. The role switcher would also hurt us a lot if he's scum, true.

[QuickBen]

I guess I'm confused about why you'd feel the RB was a danger to the town if it was on a townie.

Also,

FOS Korlash

for giving the scum an idea they may not have thought of should they happen to have the reopener or the switcher.

[QuickBen]

As it should... Talking to the mod should not in anyway prove anything one way or another... I guess I need to take a closer look at QB then...

I guess I'm confused about why you'd feel the RB was a danger to the town if it was on a townie.

Um.. cause he would not know who was scum/town for sure and could easily block our cop or doc. And no, I will not put my faith in another player that he will "Not use his night action" as I have been screwed over by vigs before and I have no doubt a RB could do the same. To trust anyone to keep their word in a game of mafia is simply moronic.

If that's the case, then there's no point in discussing any plan at all. Who is to say that the switcher will participate? Or the reopener? Or the cop? To say that you don't want a valid role like the roleblocker in the game is, to borrow a phrase, quite simply moronic. A roleblocker can be a defacto doc/cop if his aim is true. I've seen a mafia player outed simply by the roleblocker choosing him the night he was to make the kill. The doc was already dead and voila- scum on a platter.

Now, as far as my FOS, I'm actually quite shocked at the reactions to it. Its an FOS people, not a vote. It says I think you've done something that could be construed as scummy and will be watching you.

And kabenon is correct in his assertion of the possible use of WIFOM. By its very nature, WIFOM is a tool that benefits the scum as it uses circular arguments to confuse the town. Anyone using a WIFOM defense is just as suspect as those who are strawmanning and using craplogic and lurking and barning.

[QuickBen]

I'm not saying he would or did do it to seem more townie. I'm saying it *could* have been done to appear more townie. Or more on point, that him doing it could be argued either way, so its pointless to do so. By itself, its not something I would (or did) vote him for. Now, if later on he has built up some kind of record for giving the scum ideas in thread, then yeah, he may garner my vote. Just because they're able to confer, doesn't mean they can necessarily come up with a plan like that. We don't have to help them, should they have the switcher or reopener in their ranks, ok?

Lets suppose he is scum. He asks himself, "Would any self-respecting scum ask this in thread?" "No." "Ok, I'll ask in thread and this appear to do something that no scum would do."

WIFOM is a situation in which two opposing answers can be arrived at based on trains of thought that are based on what you think others would do.

A person who says this would never belong to group X, therefore he must belong to group Y unless he is actually a part of group X and knew you would think that a person of group X would never say that and so he did to appear to be a part of the other group. Etc.

In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that..."

[QuickBen]

@MOD- Silly question that may have been answered already- If the role switcher targets a living player and a dead player, will we be notified of what power got switched to the dead player? (I.e.- will the opening post be updated, as in Puzzle- townie-

vanilla

roleblocker) or something like that?

You will not be told that what role the person has, but it will be made clear that the person no longer has that role.

[QuickBen]

Mainly because I don't consider my logic to be faulty.

[QuickBen]

I do find myself agreeing with Phate as far as his logic goes. I'm actually much the same way when it comes to people stating they can trust me as the only people who can positively identify me as town are scum (providing there's no evidence of a SK) and the cop (who shouldn't be dumb enough to say anything that bold unless I'm in danger of being lynched).

[QuickBen]

I really don't like it when people make comments like "I really think one of these two is scum and we should get rid of one of them asap." Its too easy for scum to pull that stuff and set up two townies who happen to be disagreeing for lynching. Being that the two in question seem to be two of our more prolific posters in here, it would also cripple discussion.

FOS Thanatos

[QuickBen]

@Zhao- mainly because people's reactions to the discussion are where I find scum. I almost never get scumtells from the bigger arguments, but my how often the craplogic pops up amongst the people discussing that argument or interjecting their thoughts. So in a way, their discussion may not be scumhunting in your eyes, but it *is* helping me scumhunt. As far as the OTM thing is concerned, I'm not sure if he just has a scummy playstyle or if I'm getting true scum vibes from him. (Hence my lack of a vote.)

[QuickBen]

@Zhao- I'm saying that generally I don't find scum in the big fights of the thread such as OTM and Phate seem to be in. I find them in the side convos. And you really need to stop misrepresenting what I'm saying. I'm saying that I can't pin down whether I'm getting scum vibes or if his playstyle just rubs me wrong.

At this point, the people I have my eye on are Zhao, OTM, and Thantos. The odd part is that I'm somewhat on the fence about all of them. Zhao seems like he's doing a bad job of paraphrasing at best and is deliberately misrepresenting people at worst. Still trying to figure out which at this point. My notes actually have you and OTM with "distancing?" next to it. OTM has a self proclaimed fluid playstyle which I'm not really used to. I get a bad vibe from him, but nothing concrete. Thantos gets similar feelings from me. I find myself reading his posts and wishing he had given more in depth reasoning for his points. The "hang the ****er" post feels like scum throwing a lost cause under the bus in order to appear town. All in all, nothing I feel confident enough to throw a vote at, but leads that I do plan to follow up on.

[QuickBen]

Will re-read this evening and see if I can't get a feeling for where I stand on things.

[QuickBen]

Ok, I skimmed the thread last night and can't say that OTM has really cleared himself to me. He has the distinct look of scum on the hook who is thrashing around and trying to launch accusations in every direction. I feel comfortable putting him at L-1.

vote OTM

[QuickBen]

Ok. Sorry 'bout that. Birthday was the 12th and I took a few days off to do some Christmas shopping and such.

First of all, I didn't realize that my use of the word "skim" would be taken so badly. I'm not a newbie, I've just been away from the game for a while. To me, skimming wasn't a bad thing because it wasn't the only reading I had done. I've been reading along as we go, so I went back and skimmed to refresh my memory as to what I had already read. I find that it's really quite useful when your mind is stuck, the way that looking too closely at a pointilism picture can make you miss the big picture.

My vote on OTM (which doesn't seem to have counted?) was due to being on the fence about his individual posts, where I couldn't decide if it was his playstyle that was pinging the scumdar or if he was actually committing scumtells. By skimming the thread, instead of getting more comfortable with his playstyle, it made me more suspicious. (Hence my vote.)

Any other questions?

[QuickBen]

I feel pretty good about an OTM lynch at the moment. Planning to dip into the mafia petty cash to buy my vote?

I'm actually a little concerned about kabenon's pushing of my bandwagon without really giving me a chance to say anything. I had been absent from the site for a couple of days (which on scum isn't exactly a capital offense, especially around the holidays). Impatient? Scum? Not sure. But I'll keep my vote where it is unless someone convinces me otherwise.

[QuickBen]

OK, I'm assuming the lord our mod didn't see my vote which caused the uproar in the first place. I still think OTM is deserving of it, so

vote OTM

[QuickBen]

@Holy- i meant that I was looking at his posts separately, not taken as a group, which is what i did on the re-read/skim however you want to put it.

[QuickBen]

@Zhao- no I can't get more specific. I fully admit I'm voting mainly on instinct. No one post jumps out at me as being a "aha! I caught scum" statement, which is why I was on the fence so long. After doing a fast reread, I felt comfortable voting for him. Try it. Instead of poring over the posts looking for any minute detail that would give him away, start reading from page one and just quickly look at the posts and see if anything seems odd. It did to me. I trust my gut enough to lay down a vote.

[QuickBen]

I'm here, just don't have anything to add, really.

[QuickBen]

Just looking back over the last page or two...

@Korlash- I get where you're coming from about the OTM wagon being fast. I personally don't feel it was that fast, but then again I'm looking at it from the standpoint of it stretching from the first accusation to the last defense, not from the first vote to the last vote. I personally feel he more likely to be scum based on the fact that it stalled at L-2 and stayed there. To me that feels like the town was lynching scum and his buddies were standing back to see if they should bus him to "prove" themselves or defend him and save one of their own. The fact that as soon as the verbal pressure cooled on him, he dropped his vote on me and threw his weight behind the panzer wagon.

[QuickBen]

add this to the end of that post- just pushes my scumdar a little further into the red.

[QuickBen]

Well good job to either the doc or the roleblocker on only one kill.

Welcome to Skruffs

Wasn't the role opener supposed to open OTM's role?

and

FOS MBF

for dropping the hammer from left field with no warning.

[QuickBen]

Which reason should I vote Phate?

1- LAL (I'm not scum).
2- He was a high profile player yesterday, coming up with his theory and somehow he didn't die last night.
3- I have excellent reason to believe that Thanatos was a target last night.

Hmmmm.

Yeah, I guess that means I'm the doc. I protected Than last night. I'll protect him again tonight. Keep me alive and either the cop gets one more night to live or the scum and SK have to coordinate to beat my protection meaning we have more time to find them.

I'll put phate at L-1 now.

vote Phate

[QuickBen]

@MBF- tell me you realize that the only reason the role switcher would have used his or her power last night would be if *they* were scum too?? It would have been totally against the plan to use that power before we knew any role had been reopened.

Actually...

@bird- if the role reopener uses their power, is it public knowledge that such and such role has been opened?

I have been keeping an updated tally of which role is open and which role is closed in the front post. It will not be said anywhere except there when a role is opened however

[QuickBen]

If I didn't think the switcher was scum, I would say lynch me today and let the reopener and switcher do their jobs. I am NOT scum. The only thing I can think is that Phate is trying to two-for-one with the us. Phate started off the day with a BS reason for voting me, and then got caught with his pants down when Than nailed him. Than claimed first and Phate is lying about my alignment, so hmmm, who do I believe? I claimed doc simply to get this logic out there...

I protected Than last night.
MBF blocked Zhao
Zhao is dead and a townie
We only had one kill

Questions- If I were scum doc, why wouldn't I protect one of my partners? Its pretty obvious Than and Phate are not on the same team. Its also pretty obvious that Than is a townie based on his claim and investigation. More deaths = good for the scum. Yeah, this is a bit WIFOM, but its what I got.

I'm not sorry I came out as early as I did. At least now the scum have to choose. They can either hope the SK coordinates with them or they can kill me to get the cop tomorrow night, but that gives him tonight to investigate. And I'm not even getting into how screwed we are if Than is a cop/sk.

[QuickBen]

It came down to gut instinct. I was going to protect one of the people that seemed to be doing a lot of analysis. That led me to either Phate or Thanatos. There was one post that Than made that drew my eye though during my reread during the night. One of his posts mentioned investigation and it stuck with me. Reason being that I recalled reading that post and thinking another word would have worked better there, but he must have chosen to use the term "investigation" for a reason. I don't know if Than made that post breadcrumbing cop on purpose or not, but I'd love to hear if he did.

[QuickBen]

BAH! Go scum!!