Micro 651: Worst (Role) Idea(s) Mafia 2 (Fin - Town Win!)

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: Vedith

Because: reasons

[Vaxkiller]

@Jaack

- I know nothing about my role except that than I'm town. If I am able to determine any powers

you

have, I will learn more about my own role. I do not need to know your role, just your abilities. However, if you claim, a random town-aligned player will be killed. I do not know your alignment, but I do know one more thing about your role that I'm not revealing until and unless it needs to be said. You may want to clarify with our mod if the random town kill happens with a role claim, or if it applies to any claim about your abilities and/or actions.

So maruchan said two of hs abilities, did you gain any knowledge about your abilities?

I'm a little confused, if we tell you our abilities, you learn something ELSE about us... Like something we don't know?

[Vaxkiller]

@Jaack

- I know nothing about my role except that than I'm town. If I am able to determine any powers

you

have, I will learn more about my own role. I do not need to know your role, just your abilities. However, if you claim, a random town-aligned player will be killed. I do not know your alignment, but I do know one more thing about your role that I'm not revealing until and unless it needs to be said. You may want to clarify with our mod if the random town kill happens with a role claim, or if it applies to any claim about your abilities and/or actions.

I have nothing that I am able to claim.

Weird. I wonder if he can't tell his abilities or he dies. Might be worth it depending on what (ugh, I'm typing all my responses on a windows phone and I can't find the plus signs and underscores), depending on what plus sign underscore plus sign finds out about his own abilities.

That is of course unless he's scum.

I'm happy to vote tier, but I need to know soon if you want me to vote.

[Vaxkiller]

Weird. I wonder if he can't tell his abilities or he dies. Might be worth it depending on what (ugh, I'm typing all my responses on a windows phone and I can't find the plus signs and underscores), depending on what plus sign underscore plus sign finds out about his own abilities.

That is of course unless he's scum.

I'm happy to vote tier, but I need to know soon if you want me to vote.

Oh woe is me, golly, why is everyone scumreading me I know I'm acting scummy but Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket, I always act this way as town see I'm confirmed town now.

Anyways, to clarify, my role PM forbids me to claim my role, but I also received a seperate message that also advises me against claiming my role.

Sorry, maybe i wasnt clear. Actually I was thinking more along the if pup ( forgive me when I'm back on my computer I will use ur real name) was scum, we wouldn't want you to reveal ur abilities and give him some kind of power.

Altho, he's not asking your role, just your ability. Do you have restrictions on revealing that?

[Vaxkiller]

@Tier

Why don't you just fullclaim now and let us decide if its better to lynch you day 1 or 2?

Because he's either scum or probably gains something anti town if targeted at night.

In your opinion, he's scum or scum?

In a "normal" game I would agree, but something tells me it's a "worst idea" to give townies new abilities if targeted at night.

UNVOTE:

[Vaxkiller]

Ok I see what you mean now vedith. That does seem like a slip.

[Vaxkiller]

I mean if he is town aligned why would the sk even WANT to help him.

[Vaxkiller]

Lol what is he, a town aligned jester

[Vaxkiller]

This sentence is really rubbed me the wrong way.
[quotownIn post 50, TierShift"]

Town, you have no benefit in lynching me. I will fullclaim day 2.[/quote]

Instead of talking about the benefits of his plan to town he says don't kill me it won't help you.

[Vaxkiller]

Why do people keep claiming 'third party but don't kill me', its not exactly useful

Am I reading too much into this, or is this revealing a scum perspective?

Sry I'm still phone posting, so my format looks like shot.

At first glance it looks like a fluff post, but the when you read what he says, it makes no sense.

How is people coming out of the third party closet (announcing themselves) bad for us??

[Vaxkiller]

On the one hand, some people make good points in favor of lynching tiershift. On the other hand some people make good points against lynching tiershift. Therefore, I will go with whatever the popular opinion as expressed in the thread is. But whatever the result is, don't blame me. But I think the best choice is to lynch tiershift afther we discuss things that aren't tiershift for a while.

This kind of sounds like the mindset of scum, but scum wouldn't have any reason to announce that they'll just vote for whoever everyone else votes for. So I guess I have a town lean on you right now.

I wat to move my vote, but the tier wagon seems sketchy to me. I guess I should reread everything and see if anything stands out to me

To me he's calling out jack and then does something similar

[Vaxkiller]

Exactly, and we haven't treated them with a warm welcome, what makes you think they won't be spiteful and go for thier own wincon instead of tpwns? ( it sounds like they have multiple win cons?)

[Vaxkiller]

Oh shit, I thought he was at L-2. Eh, doesn't really matter because he's scum anyway.

I've seen a resurgence of this lately. Everytime: SCUM

VOTE: SKRUB

[Vaxkiller]

Wow, an OMGUS vote. That's like straight out of the Scum 101 handbook.

Please,

I'll let you know when its OMGUS. Also since when are OMGUS votes alignment indicative?

[Vaxkiller]

Could your misdirection be any more obvious? Your case on light was not good at all, it looked like someone who was scrambling to find something where there was nothing.

I actually agree with you about light on some aspects, but all of those aspects are playstyle or odd comments and to me weren't alignment indicative. (I had no idea where he was going when he asked the 3rd party people to stop revealing, if the rest of the SK's want to show themselves, go for it.)

[Vaxkiller]

Accidental hammers happen from all alignments.

Accidents happen. This was an "Accident"

[Vaxkiller]

What misdirection?

I bolded the part that was blatant:

It's the truth, therefore it adds up. It doesn't matter if you believe me or not, the fact still remains that I haven't lied about anything. Instead of wasting everyone's time by just saying "no, you're scum" any time I post anything,

you should focus your attention on the people who are actually suspicious like vax.

No reasons. You are basically saying, don't vote for me... vote for this guy!

[Vaxkiller]

This is the thing with Skrub. As scum/sk he gains nothing by wanting to keep Tier alive, not even town cred. The focus on Skrub just seems easy.

How does he not get town cred for wanting to keep him alive? If we are dealing with all SK's (as Jaaack suggests) then no one will know each others alignment and SK!Skrub might have thought he was protecting a townie for town cred. Or maybe he didn't want to sheep along with everyone else and get caught that way.

[Vaxkiller]

But Tier confirmed that he wasn't town... Where would the town cred be for not lynching a confirmed non town?

True, but it wasn't confirmed. He kept saying he COULD win with town. Here is Skrubs thoughts on that subject:

But if he's anti-town then he wouldn't have felt the need to tell us any of this stuff in the first place

Personally I didn't trust tier, because I would say the same thing!

[Vaxkiller]

I think I need to explain it differently.

SK!Skrub thought tier may actually help town today if he lived, getting him town cred. The only problem with this is I struggled with the same feelings. The only difference being his 180° "accidental" hammer. Which is a move straight out of Tony Hawk Pro Skummer 2.

[Vaxkiller]

Sorry for actively lurking so much, but the general state of the game was beneficial to my liking and I do not wish for it to change so I'm making a purely fluff post so that way people will see I am here and hopefully add more commentary and put their necks out on the line.

That being said, I'm going to make sure that this post is relatively long and contains a bit of content so as to not get accused of fluff posting.

Confirming that all my reads are still the same.

Weird post. You went from town to "maybe townish"

Who are you voting for? What about the game at the moment do you like so much? The inactivity??? Because no one seems to be saying anything .

[Vaxkiller]

Ever hear of the too town fallacy? You will need to keep posting if you want that Pulitzer.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm not sure what to think about you anymore Vedith. I'm pretty sure I've heard you contradict your self here compared to other games.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm not sure what to think about you anymore Vedith. I'm pretty sure I've heard you contradict your self here compared to other games.

I don't understand you here. Do you think that I contradict myself in other games or no?

I could have sworn you said in another match I played with you that low post count/lurking is not alignment indicative. That said I can't find it.

[Vaxkiller]

Joke
<-----------My Head

[Vaxkiller]

Was re-reading and I saw this post, surely option two would mean there is no mafia team? Am I wrong in thinking there has to be a mafia team in order for scum hunting/associative tells to be relevant?

Associative tells definitely, but I often call 3rd party ppl scum as well.

@light, was jaack looking for associative tells?

[Vaxkiller]

The only thing keeping me from thinking your scum is the fact you could have just jumped on the easy Skrub lynch wagon, but instead you defended Skrub.

[Vaxkiller]

Calling me an easy lynch and town reading him for defending me makes it sound like you already know that I'm town

It's just the truth, you are an easy lynch, can you name the scum motivation in what I said about Vedith? Saying it only put me more in the spotlight, but I wanted to call it out.

[Vaxkiller]

I think I need to explain it differently.

SK!Skrub thought tier may actually help town today if he lived, getting him town cred. The only problem with this is I struggled with the same feelings. The only difference being his 180° "accidental" hammer. Which is a move straight out of Tony Hawk Pro Skummer 2.

I don't get your point. There's a difference to Tier playing anti town and not being town.
When someone says "I'm neutral" that confirms that they are not town. There was absolutely no town cred to be gained on lynching Tier.

Vedith showed how his logic was full of holes here.

The only thing keeping me from thinking your scum is the fact you could have just jumped on the easy Skrub lynch wagon, but instead you defended Skrub.

Like I said before, the fact that he called me an easy lunch and townread Vedith for defending me shows that he's scum. The only reason he'd say that is if he already knew I was town. If he really believed that I was scum, why would he townread someone for defending me?

I read the above post and was going to respond with my follow up post explaining myself more clearly. Then I saw you took my FOLLOW UP post and swapped it BEFORE Vediths post, to make it seem like my posts were not clear!!! ON TOP OF THAT you gave a tell!!! You manipulated my name in the post!!!! "Vax Killer" You new full well what you were doing.

VOTE: Skrub

Yeah, I know I'm voting again, I have restrictions.

[Vaxkiller]

And I didn't manipulate your name in anything so I don't know what you're talking about. Is this a desperate last ditch OMGUS vote?

Then why does it say Vax Killer? Also, check the history, I voted you at the start of the day, but I have restrictions. This time it should go through. This is not an OMGUS vote, but keep trying to frame and change history, its showing your true colors.

[Vaxkiller]

@ari,lol what weird role did you get???

[Vaxkiller]

We could always unvote, allowing you to vote, I see no reason to waste a lynch on you.

@Vedith do you have multiple win conditions?

[Vaxkiller]

BTW is this games roles chosen before hand, or is completely random... because im noticing a trend here.

[Vaxkiller]

I used random.org to select roles for me,

Never mind, its just a coincidence.

[Vaxkiller]

NOM NOM NOM

For today I'm ok with a Skrub or light lynch. As long as Vedith keeps his word and we have only 1 death tonight keep him around, if not, for gods sake you will need to lynch him.

To me the scum pool can only be Skrub, light, and possibly jack in that specific order. I think everyone else is conf town (as long as the night goes correctly.)
I know you guys all think jaack is def town, but I can't rule him out as I can Ari and Vedith.

[Vaxkiller]

Your claim makes sense to me and can easily be proven over the night by not killing anyone. The only problem with this is, if Vedith is lying and he is not town aligned, town loses tonight if we miss-lynch today. But I can't see the motivation for him to lie because it leaves him wide open to be killed by the other 3rd party (be it scum or sk)

If you change your mind about killing someone, you best let us know BEFORE HAND to talk it though

[Vaxkiller]

Am I just a piece of toast to you?!

Buttered toast.

[Vaxkiller]

@Vedith, do you really subscribe to what Skrub is saying or do you have a different opinion on why you think I'm scum?

@aristo who do you think is scum? We can always unvote so you can vote.

[Vaxkiller]

DAYVIG: VAXKILLER

Is this for real? Did you just slaughter a VT (for all intense and purses im actually worse than a VT, because of my vote restriction) It's too OP for an SK or scum to have a day vig in this game right? If so kill Skrub/light tonight we likely win.

[Vaxkiller]

Vaxkiller stares at the smoking gun Jaack holds in his trembling hands.

Vaxkiller: But why?
Jaack: Because someone had to die, and that someone was you.
Vaxkiller: Who was there when your son was born in the town? Who helped you rebuild your house after the twister? Who comforted you when you lost your brother to dysentery? Does our blood not both bleed red? Do our names not both contain double letters? Did our time in the town together mean nothing to you?
Jaack: I'm sorry.
Vaxkiller: Me too, just do one thing for me.
Jaack: Name it.
Vaxkiller: ack ugh splutter.....
Vaxkiller: Get those scum bastards!

[Vaxkiller]

I'm such a gullible noob

[Vaxkiller]

My biggest concern is where no one really had an opinion on me claiming town SK, and there is no actual way to prove it until I die or game ends.

Can't speak for everyone else, but it makes no sense for you to lie about that, as I see it you are what you say and there is either a scum team of 2. Or 1 more SK. There might be a few other options that I'm not aware of because im newish (could there be 2 more SK's and the are odd/even night vigs??? Sounds like a horrible role!)

If you are lying then I would HIGHLY doubt there is a scum team of 2, and there is 1 more SK. I would assume he would try and kill you during the night to make sure you don't kill him the next night. So what is the advantage there for you?

[Vaxkiller]

What is the case against him?

Flimsy, made up evidence. You in?

Am I the only person who is bothered by the FACT that Skrub quoted my post out of order with another post, changed my name to Vax Killer in the title? He 100% denies changing my name to Vax Killer.... but there it is: 313 He was so proud of his manifesto he posted it twice: 334

[Vaxkiller]

1. I already said why I quoted vedith's post after yours. He destroyed your aguement and then in the next post you still wanted to act as if you had a point. Even though you tried to change your words slightly, his post already invalidated yours.
2. I didn't change anything
3.How would changing your name make me scum?
4. If my case against you is weak and full of made up evidence, then why do you seem so shook?

1 I know you already answered it. But you havent answered the other part where you changed me name.
2. Yes you did.
3. It doesn't. By why the lie?
4. I'm shook? What behvior makes you think that?

[Vaxkiller]

I didn't really feel the need to to be honest, but you are right, it would be rude to dismiss it. I'll address them in a little bit.

[Vaxkiller]

I like Jaacks idea, but the order should be Skrub, Light, Jaack

[Vaxkiller]

UNVOTE: Skrub

[Vaxkiller]

Then I would just
VOTE: light_ganski

[Vaxkiller]

If it was a scum slip, then whos the other scum? The only possibility I see is Jaack.

The way every part of that is worded rubs me the wrong way, it doesnt sound like a joke, why would you ask us to "ignore it" afterwards? Just say its a joke, then the ignoring doesnt need to be said.

Ari, would you consider voting for Skrub if light unvotes?

[Vaxkiller]

Honestly, it's hardly a tunnel if they're scum. @Vax no way in hell do I unvote, quite frankly this dies or I die because I'm not moving today

VOTE: Aristo

Have you even been reading the thread? You have to unvote in order for aristo to put his lynch there.

[Vaxkiller]

Thank god. They're finally moving onto another wagon lol. We've got this now

That was just a joke lol, ignore that

@Jaack What are your thoughts on this? (Jaack only please)

[Vaxkiller]

I didn't really feel the need to to be honest, but you are right, it would be rude to dismiss it. I'll address them in a little bit.

Still waiting on this

Sorry, I will have this for you within the hour.

@Skrub Do you think we are dealing with scum, 3rd party (sk's), or both?

[Vaxkiller]

@Skrub as soon as you answer my 403 post I have my answers for you.

[Vaxkiller]

Answers to post 313 / 334

Instead of talking about the benefits of his plan to town he says don't kill me it won't help you.

Just like light, vax kept acting suspicious of tier yet didn't attempt to push for his lynch at all or ask tier any questions to figure out more about his role. I don't see the town motivation in acting like someone is scum and not trying to get them lynched.

Revisionist history. He said he could win with town, so it was jsut a matter of weather we believed him or not, I'm not the only one with this opinion.

This is a blatant misrep seeing as how I even said in that quote that I was town reading jaack, not "calling him out".
In post 230, Vaxkiller wrote:

You said it was the mindset of scum, seems like you were calling him out to me. Look at 313 for the quotes. To me it boils down to Jaack saying he wants to see waht everyone else thinks. Then your post that is quoted is saying something similar.

Opportunistic vote. He doesn't even attempt to try and figure out if I hammered accidentally. He saw a chance to go for an easy mislynch and went for it.

How exactly would I figure out if it was an accident? Should I ask you if it was and you say no and then I believe you? If all it was was the hammer I would need more information, but your follow posts speak for themselves, it was forced, almost pre-planned or prepped.

Like I said before, the fact that he called me an easy lunch and townread Vedith for defending me shows that he's scum. The only reason he'd say that is if he already knew I was town. If he really believed that I was scum, why would he townread someone for defending me?

@Skrub, thanks for making me reply to this. Because this just digs your grave deeper. My post:

The only thing keeping me from thinking your scum is the fact you could have just jumped on the easy Skrub lynch wagon, but instead you defended Skrub.

Is FAR from a town read. I'm town reading Vedith now however based on his claim.

PLEASE READ THIS PART IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE

The only reason I would say that is if I knew you were town? What If I think you were an SK? That works too....

Skrub seems to be operating on having more knowledge, he KNOWS there are scum in the game, because he IS one of those scum. I feel pretty strongly about this scum slip, coupled with his accusation of myself when asked if I think there are scum or sk's left, he says there are only scum and they are myself and light.

[Vaxkiller]

And thats why I didn't respond toy our Skrub. It was just angry forced made up rhetoric by you. I like how you "conveniently" skip over the last part.

@Ari
If I can get through to light to unvote, will you vote Skrub?

[Vaxkiller]

Thanks, I keep missing things and you keep pointing out your own inconsistencies.

No, let me rephrase that. you didn't ask me if I think there are scum or SKs left. You asked me who I thought the remaining scum were.

@Skrub Do you think we are dealing with scum, 3rd party (sk's), or both?

[Vaxkiller]

UNVOTE: light_ganski

Waiting for Ari to vote Skrub

[Vaxkiller]

GG everyone! Well played and thank you mod for an awesome game!

LOL at AIDS role!

[Vaxkiller]

@Skrub

I was just about to change my vote to Skrub! That was a fucking well done vote pulling technique man!

^ This 100%

Well played dude!

[Vaxkiller]

Yeah I was really confused why everyone kept town reading Jaack. I felt like I was missing something! I was really sure the scum team was Skrub and Jaack!