Newbie 509 - Game Over

[cepi]

Finally. I was starting to believe this game would never start. It 's my first first game ever so I might ask a lot of questions. Who is our other IC?

Random

Vote : Rishi

[cepi]

I

nexperience-

C

hallenged player (Essentially, not a newbie, each newbie game has 5 newbies and 2 IC players)

I see. Is it also true that our ICs are split? I mean, one of them is scum and the other is town?

Oh, and BTW I think we have 3 ICs here.

[cepi]

Inexperience-Challenged player (Essentially, not a newbie, each newbie game has 5 newbies and 2 IC players)

I see. Is it also true that our ICs are split? I mean, one of them is scum and the other is town?

Oh, and BTW I think we have 3 ICs here.

Who do you think is the third?

I think the one with a extremely difficult name is. --

FoS : Xylthixlm

Or it is too obvious or I'm missing something.

[cepi]

Xylthixlm has been registered on this site for a long time, but this is his first game on here.

I assume from the sig that he has played on other sites. However, I have played occasionally on other sites, and have found that the style of play is very different.

I play on the MTGS chat mafia (#mafia@irc.globalgamerscenter.net), which is very different from forum mafia. Games rarely last longer than 30 minutes or so.

Game experience does count, so I wouldn't consider you a newbie. I mostly play on here and face-to-face. The games are VERY different. But, I find that playing face-to-face makes me a better forum player and vice versa.

I agree with you here Rishi. Thats why I say I think we have 3 ICs, and I must agree too that this is good for the game. Is there a way I can

UnFos : Xyl?

BTW we have an eager player here. He votes for and gives Fos to everyone. How suspicious is this?

[cepi]

BTW we have an eager player here. He votes for and gives Fos to everyone. How suspicious is this?

Cepi is throwing suspicion on Dean Harper, but not voting or FOS'ing. That makes me suspect a cepi/Dean Harper scum team is a possibility....

Wrong lecture, Xyl. Let me explain this although I think ICs probably have already noticed it.

I simply didnt FOS or vote Dean Harper because I was only asking other players' opinion and, although this might add some spice to this affair, I really dont think DH is scum. If hes one then his strategy is blatantly stupid. For me, hes an eager townie that isnt scared of posting and posting, finding little mistakes and grabbing town's attention. (maybe too much for his security)

hmmm, only cepi needs to vote till night begins

... Which makes me think that this might be an attempt by the scum to communicate during the day.

For the record, I had already voted when DH posted this. Also, I dont see what would DH try to communicate with this. Care to explain?

[cepi]

EBWOP:

sure, lets see wat other ppl think

Definetely.

[cepi]

As promised, Vote: Dean Harper. And can we get a vote count?

Wait there, boy. If Im not wrong, then we have a person in L-1. This is not good for town taking in count we are in page 3. I mean, not good at all. Also, I really dont think (as I said before) that Dean Harper is scum. For me, again, hes just an eager townie.

Xyl, give me just one good reason to think Dean Harper is scum. Just one.

If somehow this situation doesnt fix and ALL the town thinks DH is scummy enough then we might linch it, but not now.

Now that I think about it, I have some interesting thoughts

1. If someone hammers DH, we have scum number 1 and possibly number 2. So, Im sure scum1 wont hammer.

2. Who do you consider the scummiest? A newbie who tries to analyse all players mistakes or an IC that puts this person in L-1?

3. Xyl, You are for now my principal suspect, but there is still a possibility that ur eagerness is somehow acting for you. Lets hope u can clarify this. For now I feel good with this.

Vote : Xyl

[cepi]

I just realized a million people posted before me and after Xyl's vote. Luckily, someone unvoted.

[cepi]

And cepi and Tenebrys continue to not have avatars.

lol, I thought I could be the "I dont have avatar" guy, but dont worry. Ill look for one ASAP.

[cepi]

lol, Xyl works for me

Well, thats because we are newbies. It was working for me too but all this L-1 thing makes me wonder. Ill keep my vote on him but now he seems less scummy. Depends on his next post.

BTW, liking my dog, there?

[cepi]

Wow, I just left one day and look ma, we're almost in page 5! Basically, I feel a little confused. My only suspect, Xyl, has showed his interest and, strangely, he seems now, the most pro-town player here. I still dont like the L-1 thing at the beginning but for now Ill give u the benefit of doubt.

Unvote

And, Dean Harper u really need to break ur sentences. My head almost exploded when I read ur post.

[cepi]

Happy Thanksgiving y'all. Ill be back within the next 48 hours.

[cepi]

Finally, Im back, let see..

Can you elaborate a bit more on what the sudden change was with Xyl?

Basically, I didnt know there were mafia IRC games and all the baggage they carry. I agree with spurgistan here as I think is a good excuse. However, hes still supicious. Read down the post.

Where are u people? Thx God I didnt have to read a lot of posts, but seriously we arent going anywhere. I would like to hear opinions of all gamers here ala spurgistan.

Well, lets try it, shall we?

DH --> I seriously miss your posts dude, where are u?... Newbie, active, pro-town player. You were a bit of crossing the annoying line for our posters here. In two-three games I read before liking this game, the annoying townie always gets lynched D1.... Luckily we have intelligent players.

Spurgistan --> IC. I like his style. Balanced posts. A little bit of lurking at the beginning but I understand.

Mispeled --> Protown, I think. Not afraid of asking and saying interesting thigs.

Rishi --> We need more from your experience. Semiolurking here.

Fos : Rsihi

What do you think of the game so far?

Xyl --> Althpugh I didnt like his eagerness the first two-three pages he now seems to understand the process of forum mafia. Yeah, I hate its slowness too. I find him a little suspicious, though. Post 72 is too strange. Mispeled is correct in finding this sudden change.

Tenebrys --> Guess what we have here. Lurking times, heh? Post 89 is kinda good for his first post but I seriously dont like this gamestyle

Vote : Tenebrys

until he contribuites

[cepi]

Awesome. We're now at a "Lynch good or lose" situation.

So, dont vote until u are pretty sure. Give FoS, SFoS anything u want, but please, dont vote until town has agreed in todays lynch.

Some interesting thoughts:

a) Im extremely disturbed with Spurgistans actions. He is an IC so, why did he put someone at L-1? My L-2, I think, was enough pressure for Tenebrys.

It strikes me as hell, becuase in games Ive read ICs ususally suggest not putting someone at L-1 unless we have strong evidence.

b) I have the strange feeling Dean Harper isnt a newbie at all. He deliberately hammered Tenebrys. After a little bit of research on all his posts I discovered three interesting facts:

- He asks deliberately too many things. Someone interested in playing mafia for the first time should know, IMO, the basic terminology.

- Ive noticed the sudden change of style writing in his last posts. Do u remember the newbie who posted his ideas in just one sentence? Read his last posts, they seem too weel thought for my taste.

- He hammered someone. His reason.

After going over the posts again, i agree with Spurgistan. Tenebyrs has not been contributing hardly at all, and what he does contribute is a lot of dodging around what other people have said and trying to make it look like something new

.

Scummy enough? In five pages? I repeat, L-2 was enough.

c) So, I see a posible scumpair here in Spurgistan and Dean Harper. One thing Im sure, one of them is mafia.

FoS : Spurgistan, Dean Harper

[cepi]

Agreed. Waiting for them too. Hope they dont take too long to come with a reasonable explanation. I expected to find a Dean Harper post, but no, so I think we'll just have to wait.

[cepi]

You were on the lynch as well. You can participate in the conversation.

Sure. Before voting I didnt have a principal suspect. Even Tenebrys wasnt enough suspicious for me, taking in count he had just a few posts with not enough input.

So why did I vote him? Basically, he was a lurking player. I honestly think there was a big possibility of finding scum in his lurking attitudes. Besides the irrelevant fact that I dont like that gamestyle. So, I thought putting him in L-2 was enough to get him talking.

But then, sprugistan, an IC, and Dean Harper, a newbie*, almost consecutevely vote for him. Why?

Well, both seem to have the "I didnt realize what I did" argument. I may buy it from spurgistan, because not realizing a L-1 with JDodge's lurking is kinda believable. But Dean Harper, god, I seiously cant believe you. How in hell did u miss two votes?


* As I stated before, I seriosuly have the feeling hes using too much his "Im a stupid newbie" argumente too many times.

[cepi]

I don't really see DH using the "stupid newbie" argument anywhere. His last post sort of has it, in a "I may be really scummy but it's not because I'm scum" way, but he doesn't actually say that's because he's a newbie. Maybe it's just implicit. Speaking of which, what's up with the spontaneous townie claim?

Its implicit. I may be crazy but I see it everywhere.
- He claims town - Risky newbie (or not so newbie) move
- He says he didnt realize he was hammering Tenebrys. Twice - Im a stupid newbie, forgive me for not realizing, twice. See?

Besides that, I agree with all u said in that post.ç

Fun fact: Xyl is the only player that was both on the Dean Harper bandwagon (which got to L -1) and the Tenebrys bandwagon.

I was going to post something like this as soos as I read that :

"Funnier fact 1: U forgot Spurgistan was invoved in both situations.
Funnier fact 2 : Xyl was the first voting Tenebrys, so no bandwagon here.
Funnier fact 3 : Spurgistan's vote was random."

I didnt like that post at all. Read further.

Neither of the two dead townies said anything that could point to who killed Mispeled. Tenebrys obviously posted little all game, which is why that one bad post hit me as scummy. Mispeled thought I was lurking for most of the game, but never did more than grunt and say that nobody else was playing particularly effectively, either. So, unless somebody can catch something that I missed (Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now) day 1 seems to have been something of a waste, only now we are in a Lynch or Lose situation. So yeah, no votes until we know how this is going down.

For me, it wasnt a waste. Read my first post after after Tenebrys and Mispeled deads. I firmly believe theres a scum between u and Dean Harper.

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

He did.

Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now

Which is a logic answer to ur fun fact. Its unconvincig. U realised that in an after post.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

Im having problems deciding which attitude is the scummiest. And DH's unvote doesnt say a lot to me. Damage control?, "Im a stupid newbie" argument again?. Maybe. Why are u defending him?

something bothers me about this post, but im not sure what just yet

Same here. I dont like ur last post either, DH. Ur posts are usually longer.

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

I dont see any reasoning here. Care to explain? And, on a side note, Am I the one who finds one of the last two votes on Tenebrys scummy as hell?

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie

OMG, I cant believe u just posted that. Do u remember who hammered Tenebrys? Why are u and Rishi, both attacking Spurgistan with such silly arguments?

SFoS : Dean Harper, Rishi

[cepi]

Yes, i remember Cepi, it was me. Is this really such a "silly argument"?

Dean Harper, it is. Its like saying "Well, Spurg, You hurted the bird so now Im going to kill it, and then Ill blame you for his death" Sounds right to u?

I mean, it WAS Spurgistan who put him in -1, not me. I voted for Tene for legitimate reasons, and I mad the mistake of hammering him

I still cant believe u made that mistake. Seriuosly there were two votes in the same page!!

So while when you voted, your reasons for voting Tenebrys were the same as mine. You said so. But now, your reasons were "legitimate", while mine, by extension, were not. I'm liking you less after that.

Interesting catch, but Ill have to agree with DH here :

sorry if that sounded as if i was completely agreeing with everything you were saying Spurg. I should have clarified that i was only agreeing with your vote. My reasons for voting for Tene were much different than yours, which were based on one of his page 2 posts. My own reasons were completely because he did not contribute enough within D1.

So, Spurgistan, this was the best time for attacking DH, huh? I have a little question for u, What do u think so far of Rishi and Xyl? Two- three lignes will be fine.

cepi, you say you think there's a scum between spurgistan and Dean Harper - do you think they're both scum, and if not, who do you suspect for the other? "I think one of two people is scum" is a remarkably weak guess if you are town, since the only way you would be wrong is if I was scum with Rishi.

No, Its not a weak guess. I still think there's a scum between Dean Harper and Spurgistan. Thanks to todays posts there is less posibility of both of them being scum. But, Im still having problems deciding which is the scummiest and who is his partner. So, there are a lot of possibilities of being wrong: "Spurgistan - Xyl" "Spurgistan - Rishi " "DH - Xyl" "DH - Rishi " If u had read my last post u, of course, would have realised I was playing with this last possibility.

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

This is a weak guess until u dont explain yourself. I need ur opinions now.

My personal guess as to who is scum is actually Cepi and Spurgistan. Cepi because the whole game, hes found someone to hide behind (me while Xyl was suspecting me, and now Spurgistan, and backing him up while he's under pressure.) This may be a scum move because the people he wants lynched so he doesnt have to do the dirty work are not getting pressured.

Im not getting this. Can u explain me why is it scummy to defend someone I want lynched? Did I read it wrong? And why did u exclude Xyl from ur analysis?

[cepi]

So while I seem to be a popular possible scumpartner these days, I'm not really hearing a lot of reasons why. I put Tenebrys at -1, and I'm sorry for that, I had no idea. Looks like he hasn't posted since, so what he really needed was a replacement, anyways. Another brave soldier lost to WoW [shakes head]. But anybody want to point to anything tying me to anybody? I'd love to address it.

Basically, not realizing u put someone at L-1 as an IC is the only big reason u r in my suspect book. What else? A little bit of lurking at the beginning. Some posts with no content. But what else can u ask if we just had 5 pages of D-1? BTW U havent answered my question.

What do u think so far of Rishi and Xyl? Two- three lignes will be fine.

BTW, Xyl, do u still think DH is scum as hell ? I reread all the posts this morning and I found out u were pretty conviced.

Of course, Xyl COULD be scum, but im not really counting on it. It seems unlikely to me that a scum would put himself out so far in the early game as he questioned me. It also seems unlikely that a scum would scumhunt me so aggressively. The only thing i have against him is that he took his vote off of me as soon as he saw Rishi unvote me.

You didnt think like that when Xyl was scumhunting u.

personally, i wasnt even thinking about Cepi throwing the suspicion on me, but now that u mention it, im kinda suspicious too. Then again, im pretty suspicious of you now too Xyl, since you are waiting for that one guy's replacement to vote. If you are waiting for him, im thinking you might want to coordinate your vote with him in order to not be suspicious until you can talk to your scum partner at night.

Hmm, if you really dont want to put blame on everyone until the new person gets here, then why are you FOSing me? Sure, everyone else has voted, but in that sense, you stand out to me b/c you havent voted at all. Of course, you want to make sure everyone has a say in the voting and not vote out a townie, but it seems to me that you are really trying to act like a good guy. And dont get me wrong, ur doing a good job, but its a little suspicious on your part. But you seem to be wanting to blame cepi for something he didnt do. It was my bad that i said cepi didnt vote, the person i meant to put down was That One Guy. Cepi really had nothing to do with it. If you had done your research, you would have figured that out. Your "Super Duper FOS" was a pretty stupid move, just showing that you were ready to lynch someone outright, but not wanting to vote right away to try and avoid suspicion

Its in there. In ur famous one-sentence posts.

BTW, where r u, Rishi? Why r u lurking D-2? Every post I read without ur name in the poster section makes you more and more suspicious.

[cepi]

If u havent realized, Im being kinda agressive here with all players. All the information we're going to get here are posts and reactions to them, so you are not going to win this game if you dont make people talk and react.

The reason u r getting more atention is because a) You have serious flaws in ur posts and b) You are my principal suspect.

Yes, I know I defended u earlier. It was a bad idea to get a lynch that early (which is ironic because u quicklynched someone) and I really thought u were a townie scumhunting very agressively. However, all this Tenebrys situation and ur reactions after this makes me think in u as a possibility. No hostility here, just playing the game.

Xyl posted that he wasn't considering me completely scummy anymore, if you look back at some of the posts. I believe its page 4 or so.

Ill let Xyl respond to that.

[cepi]

Prèmierement, Happy SS, DH

Im out of town but I somehow managed to get an Internet connection. Just a quick read of the things here. Ill be back wednesday.

Rishi and Cepi are the top two on my suspicion list, but ive already posted my opinion.

.

personally, my vote is going to go Cepi, as soon as everyone figures out who they are going to vote for.

A lot of information without backup. I wanna know the exact reason(s) why are u suspecting me? what about Rishi?

If I thought he was scummy as hell he would be on my 2-person list

Why are u so sure in this? At this point of the game, anybody here can be scum. What do u think of the other players?

I'm still waiting for Rishi to answer my question

Yeah, me too.

Mod, we need a prod on Rishi.

cepi: You have now voted or FOSed every single other player at some point in the game. It makes me think you're looking for an easy lynch.

I dont get this. I DO NOT want a quick lynch. In any terms. I wont vote until Im 100% sure of my choice and its a little early for that. Dont u see Im trying to get people to talk? Why this is scummy? How do u plan to win this game?

And then, what do u think is the scummiest :a)I FOS one, maybe two players, trying to get a quick lynch in any of these players without bothering my scum parter... or ... b) I FOS everyone trying to get the real role of all players, (and their opinions, btw) so I can decide which is which, and win this game?

Everyone but you, Xyl, are feeling very scummy to me, but these last posts make me feel I cant trust no one. Im not going to FOS u, because I think u dont seem to catch my gamestyle and Im still sure that theres a scum between DH and Spurgistan. Also, Rishis lurking is still hurting my brains. So are there a lot of suspects to even think of u as a possible scumpair? I dont know. There something that just doesnt fit.

[cepi]

Glad to know u r back, Rishi. U picked a great moment, huh?

Here's a question, cepi. Your playstyle on Day 2 is significantly different than Day 1. Why?

IMO, Day1 is pretty random. And I think I wasnt that quiet. Being kinda agressive now when I could be 50% right-wrong is the perfect time for gathering unusual reactions. Like urs. Read farther.

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

Fun fact : Rishi had been posting in all his other games but this.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

I have the feeling this last two paragraphs contradict each other. So do u have an idea of my alignment (paragraph1) or do I seem scummy to u (paragraph 2)?

Why are u putting suspcions on me and at the same trying to not be so obvious with it? Did u need previous support from DH and Xyl to post something like that? Where have I seen this situation before? Let me see... Thinking...Thinking..... Gotcha! Guess where I found it. Last page!

You tried the same with Spurgistan after the previous support of DH and myself with my first possible scumpair (DH-Spurg) in the first post of D-2. Townies read the last two pages for more reference. Looks like I noticed before and then u suddenly changed plans.

Also, dont u see a coincidence here? Who was in the two attacks?

This next fella:

1) cepi seems to have completely flipped after the tenebrys lynch, and now wants me lynched.

2) this seems like a drastic change in mannerism from when he defended me against xyl

3) he assumed that xyl still found me the most scummy, even though xyl had posted that he did not.

4) finally he makes a very unconvincing reason for xyl's question about FOSing or voting every person here, as seen in post 159.

Reason 1 and 2 are definetely just one silly reason. U tricked me very well, DH. I believed u but not anymore.
Reason 3 I didnt assume anything. And I did know Xyl posted that. I just tried to find a possible connection between u and Xyl. I never asked anything to u.
Reason 4 Whats unconvincing there? Can u quote some parts explaining urself why they felt unconvincing?

I agree that cepi and xyl could be scumpartners, as I used the tactic of putting slight suspicion of my scumpartner in game 459as a way of distancing us from eachother. Where I then proved my suspicions wrong and was able to get a townie to vote pro mafia and win us the game. I could see that strategy applying to cepi and xyl.

So, this isnt ur first game. Then, How didnt u know what an IC or even a FOS was?

Yeah, its definetely them.

SFOS : Rishi and DH

[cepi]

This seemed weird to me too, so just checked game 459. DH replaced into that game on Nov 23, a few days after this game started.

Yeah, I didnt check game 459 before posting my answer. I was busy at work and just planned to read it at home. However, now that I had some minutes trying to read some of DH posts there, I found that this "newbie" DH is really an intelligent player and I now know what he's capable of doing.

Correct me if Im wrong. Would a player so active, fast and engaged with this game as him, not know what an IC or a FOS is? Would this player have miscounted the votes?

I'm not attacking you. The paragraphs do not contradict each other. You could be an aggressive (and bad) player that happens to be a townie.

When I say it makes you seem scummy, I am talking about how I expect people to react. I can see past that and note that you just don't know what you're doing..

Well, I must get glasses then. In this sentence my behaviour makes you want to lynch me.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and

makes me want to lynch you

So, if you are town, I am asking you to please stop. It's distracting and annoying.

Easy there, Rishi. You seem a little overreactive for an IC. So, whats ur suggestion? Stay quiet (like u did) and let mafia mess with townies' minds. Sorry, not my style.

BTW, It doesnt hurt to let town a "I have a lot to do, Ill post later" note. One or two sentences (like in ur other games) saying that would have been enough.

[cepi]

Rereading the posts I found something. It may be irrelevant but now that we have 5 players it might add something to my theory:

Fun fact : Guess which two players suggested role claiming. (IMO, a bad idea)

Now, into the posts:

cepi + Rishi
Rishi + spurgistan
Rishi + DH
cepi + spurgistan
spurgistan + DH
cepi + DH

If I read well, then ur first option as scum is Rishi, right?
Then, do u think spurgistan is scummier than DH, why?

cepi -- Let me see if I can explain myself better. It seems that you are trying to provoke an emotional response out of me, and, when playing emotionally, I would be inclined to push for your lynch for the reason that you're frustrating to play with. I am not some robot that is above reacting negatively to being provoked - regardless of whether I am an IC or not. You don't have to sit back. You can ask probing, insightful questions without getting all riled up. In fact, I thought your last post was quite appropriate.

Rishi, What are u trying here? Why are u trying to subtly contribute with this "Rishi and Cepi are scumpartners" theory? My last post was like all others before it (inappropiates according to ur lurking gamestyle).

Xyl, do you have anything to tie those pairings together? Seeing as how this is lylo, we should have a decent plan going forward before we start putting votes on. Additionally, I can't think of any reason why Rishi and cepi are anything like a scumpair. Separately, sure they haven't acquitted themselves well, but I don't see anything tying themselves together.

Oh wait... hmm...

Waiting for his analysys. All I can say its wrong. Rishi is my principal suspect (besides DH) and if his following posts keep bopthering me Ill be the first one puting my vote on him.

[cepi]

If there is a cop with a guilty result, he SHOULD claim now so that we're guaranteed to lynch Mafia. A cop with an innocent result to claim to derail a mislynch, but otherwise, claiming is a bad idea. A doctor should NOT claim.

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

Read this. I couldnt have put it better myself :

And no, DH, a mass-claim (what I think you asked for) would not at all be a good thing, now. We need to lynch one of the scumlords today, or the game is lost. If we manage to pull that off today(40% odds, although I can obviously call that 50% if we don't lynch me) we go into tomorrow with either 3 townies : 1 scum or 2:1, depending on whether or not we get a doc protection (3:1 against). Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town. Anyways, in a c-9 game a mass-claim is essentially worthless, as there are only 3 roles with no character names to claim, and anybody can claim vanilla. All that will do is add five posts with everybody claiming vanilla.

2. My absence from the game has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME ITSELF. I WAS ABSENT DUE TO OTHER ISSUES. I am not lurking now and nor do I intend to lurk for the rest of the game. I see that you are going to continue to spout the same rhetoric no matter what people say.

Ok. I can understand this. What I dont understand is that u did post in other games. 0ne or two lignes. I dont care. Why didnt u do this here? Why did u

totally

ignore us? Your lurking IMO, its extremely scummy. Then, u and Spurgistan had an interesting chat where u kinda defended the lurking (Ok, Ok, the "I dont have time for

this

game") situation.

That may be true on IRC, but here I think the opposite is true. Most players on here seem suspicious of people who don't contribute, even if that lack of contribution has no correlation to the game.

This isn't an accusation, Rishi, I really like hearing you post. But would you agree that the correct play for scum here, as they're on the verge of winning with no evidence of power roles thus far, would be to sit back and let the townies yell at each other?

Thats what we basically were doing until Xyl kinda shows his interest in my case. Guess what u posted in the following post. A subtle attack on spurgistan and myself. Not so obvious, just throwing the suspicions. maybe trying to get a little help from Xyl. Probably.

Were you trying to say "analysis"? Also, it's "principle" unless you think I am really the head of that junior high that you go to. I'm not sure what "bopthering" is, but I assure you that I'm not doing that to you, nor would I ever want to. Also, if your going to be "puting" your vote, please turn your head first.

Im not going to respond to this because its so stupid and irrelevant to the game. I dont understand why u as an IC are trying to play so dirty. Its obvious english is not my first language. In fact, its my fourth and Im just learning it.

Anyway, what do the rest of you think? As I said, I think Xyl is cepi's only possible scumpartner. So, of course Xyl is agreeing with him. I like how Xyl put me at the top of his suspect list and threw in "cepi" for some possible distancing.

Yeah, DH was doing the same thing with his theory of "Rishi and Cepi" are scum. This might add something to ur silly theory, but I find Xyl protown, although he seemed scummy when he put DH at L-1, days ago. Besides that, and taking in count his kinda believable IRC excuse, he hasnt done anything particular scummy IMO. What its extremely scummy is that u are throwing suspicions on him just because we're both in his top list. Have u found something else that Im not seeing, Rishi?

I think cepi's Mafia profile fits perfectly. He starts off the day going after spurg and DH (for L -1 and the hammer...) completely dodging the question about why his vote was on Tenebrys as well.

I didnt.

You were on the lynch as well. You can participate in the conversation.

Sure. Before voting I didnt have a principal suspect. Even Tenebrys wasnt enough suspicious for me, taking in count he had just a few posts with not enough input.

So why did I vote him? Basically, he was a lurking player. I honestly think there was a big possibility of finding scum in his lurking attitudes. Besides the irrelevant fact that I dont like that gamestyle. So, I thought putting him in L-2 was enough to get him talking.

Yeah, Rishi. I guess u didnt find another thing to make me look scummy. Next time, find a true fact.

Then, seeing an opportunity when I started posting less, and came after me. Then he used inflammatory language to try to provoke me into emotional play because, yes, I will admit that emotional play does look scummy. But, often it's the provoker (not the provokee) that's actually scummy.

I think the overreaction is scummier. I wasnt trying to provoke u. I was just trying to see how u were going to react because at that time I wasn sure that u were scum. And u reacted very bad. After that emotional post, I confirmed my theory. And after u felt bad about that overreaction I was even more sure.

Interesting, Cepi seems to be getting impatient. Yes, we need to lynch a scumlord today and tomorrow or the baddies lose. But why would a townie be so dead certain of a scum right now? We have to be looking for two, or we lose. Even if Rishi is scum (that's non-judgmental, btw; I actually like you as town, Rishi) we're going to have to scope out his partner if we want to pull this out

Im not being impatient, Spurg. Im just so sure with my theory. BTW, if u havent been reading my posts I believe DH is his scumpartner. Why? I just found another thing rereading (I think is the 7th time) the thread.

Rishi suspects Xyl in post 128 (fun fact: IMO an irrelevant attack with not enough backup for being post in D-2)
Rishi suspects Spurg for the L-1 in post 131 (and he lets DH out of suspicions when he was the one who hammered Tenebrys)
DH suspects Spurg in post 135
DH suspects Cepi in posts 144,147,150,153,157(he suddeny suspects Rishi in this last post)
Rishi comes back from his lurking and suspects Spurgistan and Cepi. post 161
DH suspects Cepi again. post 166
Rishi suspects Cepi and Xyl post 168
DH suspects Cepi and Xyl post 169 (!!)
Rishi strongly suspects Cepi post 183
DH strongly suspects Cepi post 186 (!!!)

Dont u see a pattern? Both of these players were in all the attacks to the other 3 players and they somehow change his plans according to the game situation. Rishi's only attack on DH was in page 1 and IMO for a weak reason. A possible busing here. And guess who was the first unvoting when DH was at L-1 and was getting all nervous with a possible death. Yeah, Rishi.

[cepi]

Ok, this is my last answer to Rishi. Although I firmly believe DH and Rishi are possible scumpartners theres something that has been bitching in my mind for a few days and if somehow one of them (or even worse, both,- which I doubt however-) comes up town then it would only be my fault. Ill give u a rest to see what can come up in the next pages, but I have the feeling nothing will change my mind.

Into the posts.

Provoking and trying to see how someone reacts are basically the same thing.

I dont think so. I see "provoking" more as "trying to get a suspicious answer, a bad reaction" while "trying to see how someone reacts" as "well, I dont know if u'r scum so Ill analyse carefully ur next answer" The thing is that Rishi reacted very badly, IMO.

If we were scum partners, dont you think Rishi, being and IC, would have left me to myself and only slipped in small remarks in order to have other people unvote me and not himself?

Is this WIFOM? In my "Rishi-DH are scum" theory and at that point of the game, any townie could have hammered you. So Rishi had to act pretty fast. This, also, could be seen as an oppotunity for Rishi to look protown.

See, this is where your arguments are very, very weak. Did I ever suggest a mass claim? A mass claim is a really bad idea. All I am saying is that a cop with a guilty claim should claim, so we're guaranteed to hit scum today. A cop with an innocent result SHOULD CLAIM to derail a mislynch, because we automatically lose if we lynch someone we know is innocent. A doctor should not claim.

Spurgistan answered to this:

Im wondering if a roll call might help, since we have no idea if we have a cop or not

Althpugh Spurgistan began his explanation with a "mass claim" situation if u read well ull find that he is kinda sure about a cop claiming not being a good idea.

Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town

Thtas why I think (I could be wrong) that a cop claiming today is a bad idea

unless

we have a very critical situation. (town somehow agrees to lynch an innocent) I dont think we're at one.

I've probably suspected everyone in this game at one point or another, except for Mispeled and Tenebrys (I did suspect Tenebrys briefly in one post) - the two confirmed townies. I think if you look at everyone's posts, they have suspicions on every living player. I couldn't find any place where you suspected Xyl, though.

When did u

suspect

DH? IIRC I strongly suspected Xyl D-1. His L-1 on DH is still on my mind but apart from that I dont find another suspicious thing in his behaviour. Again, do u? (besides this weak argument:)

I think it's unusual how the two of you seem to be agreeing with each other. I find you scummy and you're sticking up for Xyl. So I find Xyl scummy. It may not be a strong argument, but it's there.

I remembered your post. I feel it was kind of a wishy-washy defense of your vote. I still don't think you really answered for the vote. Every living player except me had a hand in lynching Tenebrys. Yet you continued to try to suspect spurg and DH for their L-1 and hammer votes while not receiving any pressure for your vote.

What? Do I have to explain again the second vote on Tenebrys? I think its pretty clear.

So why did I vote him? Basically, he was a lurking player. I honestly think there was a big possibility of finding scum in his lurking attitudes. Besides the irrelevant fact that I dont like that gamestyle. So, I thought putting him in L-2 was enough to get him talking.

My reason can be stupid in ur reasoning, but heres the thing I dont understand. Do u think the second vote on Tenebrys is more suspicious than Spurgistan's L-1 or DH`s hammer?

How many games have you played? Your attack is the fact that the post was in Day 2? How do you know what is and isn't appropriate for Day 2? I was trying to get a reaction out of Xyl. I had made an honest mistake by missing that spurg was on both bandwagons as well.

This is my first game. Ive read 5-6 short games. Its not relevant. I think. What its, is the fact that u think Im suspicious for trying to get a reaction when u do the same thing.

At this point, I don't think DH is scum. How is this any different than you sticking up for Xyl?

Xyl's scummy actions : L-1 on DH. A bit of impatience D-1.

DH's scummy actions : Hammer on Tenebrys. A lot of impatience D-1. Claims town. Seems to follow this pattern:

DH suspects Spurg in post 135
DH suspects Cepi in posts 144,147,150,153,157(he suddeny suspects Rishi in this last post)
Rishi comes back from his lurking and suspects Spurgistan and Cepi. post 161
DH suspects Cepi again. post 166
Rishi suspects Cepi and Xyl post 168
DH suspects Cepi and Xyl post 169 (!!)
Rishi strongly suspects Cepi post 183
DH strongly suspects Cepi post 186 (!!!)

See any diference?

Anyway, I think this cepi-Rishi thing is dominating the thread. And if we both happen to be town (I really think cepi is scum, but he could just be a confused townie), then we are letting the scum get away. I think we should end this, cepi and focus more attention on the three other players. If you want to get in your "last word," that's fine. I won't respond again.

Since u gave me the opportunity to have a last word, then I feel I have to give you one as well.

Ill analyse Xyl's post tomorrow. This one is already too long.

[cepi]

My analysis is in bold. Saving time without the quoting job.

180: Rishi is still pretty inscrutable. I can see that he's experienced, and paying attention. I don't actually understand the accusation that cepi is being excessively provocative - how are we supposed to get anywhere without giving opinions?

Same here. I posted sopmehting like this earlier, IIRC

Rishi; I understand that part. What I don't understand is why you don't think cepi could be partnered with anyone else. You and spurgistan both seem like possible partners to me.

More on this later

181: For cepi and Rishi, cepi has been very aggressive towards everyone but me today. Rishi seems to be particularly riled up about it, though, and is basically telling cepi to back off and keep quiet. That's not the reaction I'd expect from a townie being attacked; Rishi is criticizing the form of the accusation rather than the content. That, combined with the fact that Rishi was encouraging cepi to lurk, makes me think they could be scum doing some excessive distancing.

I dont undertand how both facts (Rishi criticizing/reacting in a

wrong way

and encouraging me to lurk) can lead to an excessive distancing

182: My first option for scum is Rishi, that is correct. You're #2.
I think spurgistan is scummier than DH because I have a feeling DH is protown, but a neutral read on spurgistan. As someone pointed out, the whole exchange on day 1 really does seem like we were both town. He's managing to make me more suspicious lately though.

Theres something I dont like in DH's style. The fact is that I already know what he's capable of doing/pretending. I agree that after the D-1 incident both of u seemed to be protown, but really, am I the only one seeing his hammer and posterior excuses as terrible scumtells?

I'm really curious how you think I'm agreeing with cepi. Also, if you really think I'm cepi's only possible scumpartner, that implies that cepi can't be scum unless I am, so you should be attacking me rather than cepi.

I think he should be atacking both, not just you.

184: The same thing applies here. Anyone who thinks that cepi is scum (probably) and I'm cepi's only possible scumpartner (wrong) should be attacking me rather than cepi.

Read above

186: DH, why do you think it's cepi + spurgistan and not cepi + Rishi?

Because maybe he's more intelligent or protwon than I think.

187: I definitely need to look at Rishi's posts in other games to see if this holds up. Something to do later. I really like putting things off until later.

I really would like this analysis

The "Rishi and cepi are scum" thing was ME, not DH. Unless DH did it too; I didn't notice it if he did.

He suddenly did it. Post 157, without backup.

190: I can see why Rishi is yelling here. I'd be yelling, too, if I was being attacked for such a stupid reason. This reminds me of day 1.

Stupid reason? What stupid reason?

Piling on Tenebrys for lurking ended in a mislynch, but it sure has generated some interesting discussion today. I'm not counting it as a total waste.

This makes me remember someone posting it was a totally waste. Spurgistan?

I haven't noticed cepi sticking up for me in particular. If it's there, it's possibly an attempt to look good by agreeing with a protown player.

I like ur analysis. In my reasoning, a protown player posts without fear, tries to gather a lot of information, suspects with backup. U pass the test. The other townie should realise who is posting like this and who isnt. Also, the reason Im not suspecting u (yet) is beacuse the other three players are so above over the neutral line

193: I'd much rather have a cop come out with a guilty so we can get a guaranteed correct lynch, and then worry about tomorrow when it comes up. I think if there was a cop with a guilty it would have come out by now, though. I'm refraining from any further speculation about power roles.

[cepi]

Sorry for the double post. Somehow I clicked submit rather than preview, Dont worry. All was left, were my conclusions.

a) I find Xyl the most protown player. I like his analysis. I feel identified as townie in his objective of finding scum. I dont have problems admitting it.

b) I still think DH- Rishi is a big possible scumpair. If somehow my analysis in both of them is wrong, then I am almost 100% one of them is scum.

c) And then Spurgistan. Gosh, this guy is strange. If he hadnt posted this, I wouldnt have now this terrible headache:

Interesting, Cepi seems to be getting impatient. Yes, we need to lynch a scumlord today and tomorrow or the baddies lose. But why would a townie be so dead certain of a scum right now? We have to be looking for two, or we lose. Even if Rishi is scum (that's non-judgmental, btw; I actually like you as town, Rishi) we're going to have to scope out his partner if we want to pull this out. And yes, the fact that Rishi's hasn't been posting doesn't bode well for the town; but we can't afford to Lynch All Lurkers (not to mention people who haven't been able to make type for MafiaScum, as Rishi seems to be; trust me, people, it happen). But even if he is, getting all pissy at him without looking at who he could possibly be connected to doesn't get us anywhere day 3.

In this only paragraph, Spurgistan started to change in my scum radar, from protown to slighlty suspicious. Reasons?

1)He blatantly misreads my posts where I strongly suspected my two possible scumlords
2) What hes trying to do with Rishi? Why the support? Is it sincere?

So right now as I type this I'm thinkingthat Cepi is a likely scum for today. My personal theory would involve Xylthixlm being his partner, simply because of the antagonism they've had for each other all game. Crazy, say you? Like a fox, say I. Cepi is new to the game. This is indisputable, and if you are scum, Cepi, then you are really learning fast. But then there's Xylthixlm. He has been in on both bandwagons (Dean and Tenebrys), which of course I was too (as the Fun Facts pointed out) but I would like to highlight the Dean wagon, which he really just jumped all over page 2.

And then, he suspects the popular scumpair at the moment. After Rishi's post. When in his previous post, he wrote something like this:

Xyl, do you have anything to tie those pairings together? Seeing as how this is lylo, we should have a decent plan going forward before we start putting votes on. Additionally, I can't think of any reason why Rishi and cepi are anything like a scumpair. Separately, sure they haven't acquitted themselves well, but I don't see anything tying themselves together.

Oh wait... hmm...

The phrase in bold is something I extremely dislike. Is just there, kinda a Rishi fun fact. Its just there, waiting for someone to catch the suspicions, without too much involvement. Why didnt he develop his theory in his following post? Why did he post instead something totally different?

Spurg and DH are lurking, Rishi promised an analysis. Long D-2 indeed.

[cepi]

Chill out, Rishi. I was not throwing suspicion with that statement. Its a good way to gather information and to avoid possible long lurking periods. Spurigstan is here, DH isn't. U r still here as well, but u promised an analysis. Waiting for that.

[cepi]

I'm not telling cepi to be quiet. I am asking him to be more calm and less arrogant in his accusations. Also, I don't like when one or two players dominate the thread. I've seen games where two townies argue with each other and let the scum slip through.

You can't blame for having an opinion. Can you? How am I being arrogant? As for the second point, I totally agree. Its important to listen to others opinions. But guess what happens here? Spurg is now oficially lurking, DH has exams, Xyl is confused. This isnt going anywhere. And I must assume this is good for mafia.

Good point. But bussing my partner and setting up a mislynch is a risky play, and I don't usually go for risky plays. If I were scum, I would only do that if I felt I had a low chance of winning outright. I should probably say that you're cepi's most likely partner.

The problem is, other than agreeing with cepi a lot, you don't seem particularly scummy to me.

I don't like trying to set up a lynch of people because they associate with the wrong people.

So, you are basically telling that Im scum and that my scumparter is Xyl. Right? Then, how can u be so sure that Im scum when my possible only scumpartern (following ur words) is not particular scummy to u? Why not assuming Im just a townie? Why are you so sure in my acusations when your scumpartner theory is so weak? Xyl is so right in this:

I'm really curious how you think I'm agreeing with cepi. Also, if you really think I'm cepi's only possible scumpartner, that implies that cepi can't be scum unless I am, so you should be attacking me rather than cepi. Why aren't you doing that? It seems like you're setting up to lynch cepi, kill, and then flip it off into a mislynch of me on day 3.

And then, the most suspicious thing:

Why? If cepi is scummier than you, we should lynch cepi. We can revisit the issue of his partner tomorrow. There's too many ifs in trying to lynch you. First of all, cepi will have to be scum and we'd have to be correct about you being his only possible partner.

Ok, let me explain why this is so scummy:

1. Its so antitown (slightlyt scummy) to think in tomorrow. Basically, town wants to be the surest possible in today's lynch. If we lynch wrong today then there is no tomorrow, and mafia wins.

2. Why are u so sure that u r going to be alive tomorrow?

3. Again, if Xyl is my only possible scumpartner, then how can u be so sure Im scum when not too sure about his alignement?

Don't just go off of what spurg is saying. Think for yourself. We're in a lynch-or-lose situation. It is a critical situation. The cop only knows the alignment of one person. If the cop has a guilty result, he should claim.

No,no,no. I think he shouldnt claim

now.

We are at LyLo but we aren't in a critical situation yet. Everyone is pretty suspicous of everyone. Xyl, who I consider a townie, is confused. This situation isnt at all critical. Also, this could be a problem in early stages of D-2 because mafia can counterclaim.

By the way, cepi, part of the reason you find spurg suspicious is because he's sticking up for me? And part of the reason you find me suspicious is because I am sticking up for DH? You know there's only two scum, right?

Yes, I know. Im having a hard time trying to find ur scumpartner.

[cepi]

cepi continues with his tunnel-vision. I let you have a last word, and you let me have one more, and yet you continue with the argument.

I've made my case, cepi. Your arguments are weak, and you keep attacking me because I'm the easiest to lynch in your eyes.

Vote: cepi

Rishi, UNVOTE RIGHT NOW. If u somehow are town then we lose. Are you the one who was in the six months game? Dont u have more arguments? Debate, man, this game is for debate. It's so early for a vote.

Finally, a vote. I'm not convinced of the xyl-cepi pair yet, I still find that a bit curious given their animosity, but I can't think of anybody else Cepi would be paired with. Consider me a) not lurking, I've been really freaking busy with exams and now I'm on break and b) growing more open to a cepi-xylthixlm link.

Yeah, thats pretty townie, Spurg. Coming back from lurking to support a vote in LyLo. Again, Is Xyl scum just becuase Im scum and he's my only possible partner? WTF???

Guess what, we found our scumpair.

And, DH, if u r town dont vote until all the town has agreed to lynch me. Ill post an extent analysis of this pair tonight. If after all this, u think Im scum then u can vote me, but not now.

[cepi]

I am a townie. Yelling at me isn't going to make me change my vote. Thinking you are smarter than the ICs is also not going to make me change my vote.

Im not trying to be smarter than the ICs. They are probably more experienced but all players can have an analysis of the game. Just becuase ICs are ICs doesnt mean they arent mafia. And just becuase Im a newbie doesnt mean Im stupid.

Think again, why are u voting me? I can quote a reasonable quantity of posts where I exhibit my town alignement. And Ill do it. But can you quote other posts where I exhibit my scum beahviour others than the ones where Im suspecting you?

It is not early in Day 2.

It is, its early. Guess what happened when we had 5 pages of discussion in D-1. Now we have four pages. Early enough?

By the way, notice how cepi doesn't give any instructions to Xyl about voting, since he knows his scumbuddy won't vote him.

Becuase Xyl didn't make the mistake of hammering a guy in D-1. And beacuse Xyl didnt post something like this:

personally, my vote is going to go Cepi, as soon as everyone figures out who they are going to vote for

Why are u trying so hard to make me look suspicious after a post where u say u'll unvote me if I convice you I'm not scum?

wow that vote reveals a lot to me about Cepi. By now, the two scum (if one of them wasnt Cepi) would have lynched him and gotten this game over with i think.

What about if Rishi is scum? He and his scumpartner can't cast two votes.

Ill HFOS: Cepi for now, as i really see no reason to cast my vote other than that i want more info. Also, Cepi, your loud and furious reaction at the vote seems to me like it could be a scum on major defense, trying desperately to get the vote off of yourself. Though it could also just be you're honestly trying not to get lynched bc your town.

You'll get more info, DH. I hate to have a lot of work just today. I had to be loud and furious because he's voting me in page 4 of D-2 after he explicit says that games are long. This if not scummy is horribly antitown. Also because he refuses to continue with the debate. Assuming Im scum do u really think Xyl could be my partner?

What about this reaction?

Finally, a vote. I'm not convinced of the xyl-cepi pair yet, I still find that a bit curious given their animosity, but I can't think of anybody else Cepi would be paired with. Consider me a) not lurking, I've been really freaking busy with exams and now I'm on break and b) growing more open to a cepi-xylthixlm link.

Subtly agreeing with a vote in LyLo. Just to get your almost secure vote, DH. DH, I understand ur anger against me but this is how the game works. I made a terrible mistake in ur case. I was hard in ur case, but think about it, wouldn't u have suspected me if I were the one hammering Tenebrys?

Analysis, tomorrow. Please.

[cepi]

Ok, Rishi, what about this?

Rishi's posts
D-1
4. First random vote in the thread: Tenebrys.
20. Short response to a question about ICs.
22. Second not so random vote : Dean Harper. Rishi is the first in jumping out of the random stage. IMO, for a weak reason. In my last hypothesis, when I thought DH and Rishi were scumpartners, it seemed a busing vote and an oportunity to look protown. The fact that DH and Rishi can be scumpartners is still there, but it's not the point of this analysis. The thing is that Rishi is eager to find quickly a scumtell even thought it's pretty weak.
63. Unvote: Dean Harper. Again this fits in the theory about Rishi and Dean Harper being scumpartners. Or simply it could be an oportunity to look protown.
65. He blatantly admits what's his plan in D-1.

Sorry for the double post. As far as what Dean Harper said, it's true. I do tend to hold back in the first few pages a little and drop small, probing questions. Don't worry - I will start participating more as the game develops.

When his second post in the thread was an strange vote in Dean Harper.

74. Small comentary about the sudden reverse bandwagon in DH. Probably wanting to look protown.
91. Coming back from a semilurking state. Promises a post.
102. Intereseting conversation between Rishi and Spurgistan. Its a direct response to a FOS from the later. He slighlty suspects Tenebrys (!!) and again defends DH.
110. Again defending newbies. Again stating that he's quiet in D-1. Suggests doing a metaread on him.
111. Bonus post from Spurgistan. Yeah, it's the third vote on Tenebrys.(!!)

D-2
119. LyLo post. He clearly states not to vote until we're pretty sure.
121. Suggests cop-claiming. Again, IMO, a bad idea. This seems a preplanned strategy. It didnt work, I guess.
124. Asks me for my vote in the Tenebrys lynch. He kinda ignores the most supsicious votes: Dean Harper's hammer and Spurg's L-1.
And now the scummiest post in the thread:

Fun fact: Xyl is the only player that was both on the Dean Harper bandwagon (which got to L -1) and the Tenebrys bandwagon.

What's this? A sincere fun fact? Does it have an intention? To me, it's the start of the analysis of Rishi possibly being scum becuase it's so early in D-2 it could be pre-planed strategy. This post is not too serious, not too "fun fact" It's the perfect post for suspecting someone without too much involvement.

131. Admits his fun fact had a little mistake: he left Spurgistan out of the analysis. But then the strange happens : He thinks that Spurgistan's L-1 is scummier than Dean Harper's hammer. Why?
136. Irrelevant post asking for explanations about Xyl's "Cepi-Rishi" theory
161. Coming back from the lurking state. Suspicious fact : It's a post after a FOS from Spurgistan. Again, he thinks Spurgistan's L-1 is scummier than DH- hammer but in his following paragraph he kinda defends him. He blatantly contradicts his opinion on metagaming. Read post 110 when he suggest doing a metaread on him. Starts suspecting me after my previous attacks on him: First, he's not too sure about me, then he says that my behavior makes him want to lynch me.
165. Irrelevant (kinda) response to spurgistan where he promises to be more active.
168. Direct and suble agreemet with spurgistan about Xyl and Cepi being possible scumpartners.
171. And the debate begins. He's againt my gamesttyle wich seems to provoke him an emotional overeaction.
180. He admits he overreacted and states that my gamestyle is frustating to play with. He defends again DH.
183. More overreaction. Playing dirty with my grammar. He reinforces his "Cepi- Xyl" theory. He attacks me but his only reason for suspecting Xyl is because he's my only possible scumpartner.
190. The proof he's not hunting scumpartners, he only wants a quicklynch on me.

I think it's unusual how the two of you seem to be agreeing with each other. I find you scummy and you're sticking up for Xyl. So I find Xyl scummy. It may not be a strong argument, but it's there

200. He seems frustrated abouy my post where I'm against lurkers. I wasnt throwing suspicions, yet he suggests I stop doing that.
202. Admits that he misunderstood me.
206. More proof that he's not hunting for scumparnters, he just wants me dead. Response to Xyl.

The problem is, other than agreeing with cepi a lot, you don't seem particularly scummy to me. I don't like trying to set up a lynch of people because they associate with the wrong people.

Why? If cepi is scummier than you, we should lynch cepi. We can revisit the issue of his partner tomorrow. There's too many ifs in trying to lynch you. First of all, cepi will have to be scum and we'd have to be correct about you being his only possible partner.

208. And then he cant stand it anymore. He votes me. His reason is that I continued with the argument. What? Was I supposed to stay quiet?
211. He states its not early in D-2 when he posted he was in a game that lasted 6 months and ignoring the fact that we had 5 pages of D-1 and now 4 pages od D-2.
212. Stretching my suggestion to DH and linking again to Xyl being my scumpartner. I knew that Im high DH's scum list and taking in count his eager play in D-1 he could have voted me and set an easy win for Rishi's scumpartner. That's the reason why I left Spurgistan out of the request as well, even though, he's ur possible scumpartner.

Ok, Conclusions:

Rishi is scum. Im sure now becuase mafia hasn't killed me yet and he and his cumparnter can't cast two votes. His probable scumparnert is Spurgistan. DH is second in that list, although lately his behavior is indeed townie (suspecting Rishi after my post where I even included him as his possible scumpartner, suspecting Spurgitan and not Xyl in the post when the scummy thing to do was to contribute with the popular scumpartner at the moment: "Cepi and Xyl")

[cepi]

And before Rishi starts saying that what he requested was a group of my posts where I exhibit my townie behaviour, I'll post it later tonight.

cepi, I have a question for you: you thought the scum pair was Rishi+DH (and before that, spurgistan+DH), so why concentrate your attacks on Rishi rather than DH?

Thats because although my firts suspects were "spurgistan and DH" the game quickly guided me to Rishi being the most possible scum and one of these, his possible scumpartner.

[cepi]

Cepi's posts:

D-1
6. Random vote: Rishi.
18. Irrelevant question about ICs.
27. FoS: Xyl. My reason was confusion about his lenght of time registered in the forum.
39. I unFoS Xyl for his explanation about playing MTGS chat mafia. DH's behavior seems remarkable to me.
44. I explain Xyl that he read wrong my post where I asked other players about DH's strange behavior.
67. I strongly suspect Xyl for puting Dean Harper (a newbie) at L-1 in early states of the game. I vote for him.
96. I unvote Xyl for his protown behavior after his explanation of forum mafia being slow as hell and after he's the first suspecting Tenebrys for his lurking state. He admits that he was wrong in DH's case.
107. My first big analysis of the game. My first suspect is indeed Tenebrys for his allergy to post something in the forum. I vote for him and put him at L-2 for the respective pressure.

D-2
118. I start D-2 with my second big analysis of the game. This is important for town becuase IMO if you start suspecting the possible scumpair early in D-2, you can break preplanned stratregies. My first possible scumpair was Spurg and Rishi for the two consecutive votes. The theory here was a) Dean Harper using his "Im a newbie and I didnt realyze" excuse and b) an interesting distacement between both becuase its unlikely that scum vote consecutevely in D-1. One thing I was(am) sure. One of them was scum.
126. I answer a Rishi question about my vote in Tenebrys' lynch. I start suspecting him for this strange suspicion.
137. I strongly suspect my new possible scumpair: Dean Harper and Rishi. The theory here was a) that I had to decide which was the scummier : Dean Harper or Spurgistan because as the game developed an scenario of both of them being scum was unlikely. I chose DH for some interesting interactions in D-1 with Rishi and becuase I still think the hammer is scummier than the L-1. b) They both started to attack Spurgistan with weak arguments.c) Rishi started to look more suspicious than both of them. (the fun fact, strangely suspecting Spurgistan and not DH for the same reason)
145. I reinforce my case in DH, although Spurgistan starts to act a little scummy. I ask him a question which he never answered.
149. Again, I reinforce my case in DH. Rishi starts lurking.
151. I explain my agressive gamestyle. I strongly suspect DH because I think he's just trying to mess whit my mind and posts some scummy answers
159. I continue suspecting DH because he seems so sure in voting me without backup. Rishi is still lurking. Xyl is suspecting me but I dont FOS him becuase I think he's the less scummy of the other three players.
170. Rishi is back. This is the point where Rishi starts to look scummier. He's suspecting me and at the same trying to not be so obvious with it, after Xyl and DH suspected me. His interactions with DH are just so scummy that I thought I finally discovered the scumpair.
174. Rishi continues to look scummier. I state that he overreacts.
182. Some answers to other posts. Rishi is my principal suspect. I ask Xyl why does he think Spurg is scummier than DH.
187. I state that Rishi is suspicious for the fact that he starts suspecting Xyl with the only reason he's my only possible scumpartner. After a reread I discover that the interaction between DH and Rishi is scummier than I had thought.
195. After some strange posts of Spurgistan I start thinking that he could be Rishi's scumpartner. I post this:

Although I firmly believe DH and Rishi are possible scumpartners theres something that has been bitching in my mind for a few days and if somehow one of them (or even worse, both,- which I doubt however-) comes up town then it would only be my fault.

197. An analysis of Xyl's long post. I kinda admit that Spurg can be more scummy than I had thought.
198. This is how I saw the game at that moment.

a) I find Xyl the most protown player. I like his analysis. I feel identified as townie in his objective of finding scum. I dont have problems admitting it.
b) I still think DH- Rishi is a big possible scumpair. If somehow my analysis in both of them is wrong, then I am almost 100% one of them is scum.
c) And then Spurgistan. Gosh, this guy is strange. If he hadnt posted this, I wouldnt have now this terrible headache:

Xyl, do you have anything to tie those pairings together? Seeing as how this is lylo, we should have a decent plan going forward before we start putting votes on. Additionally, I can't think of any reason why Rishi and cepi are anything like a scumpair. Separately, sure they haven't acquitted themselves well, but I don't see anything tying themselves together.

Oh wait... hmm...

207. A repsonse where I confirm Rishi is my principal suspect and Im having a hard time finding is scumpartner.
210. This is the post after Rishi's vote. Rishi's reaction was so scummy that I'm almost sure he's mafia. Then I suspect Spurgistan for his subtly support rather than finding his vote at least antitownie. I confirm he's ideed scummier than DH.
215. I reinfoirce my last (and most possible) theory : Rishi and Spurg are scumpartners. I answer to some Rishi's weak posts.
222. My last post. A big analysis of Rishi's posts during all the game (with all his contradictions) and why I'm 100% sure he's mafia.

[cepi]

If you're 100% sure he's mafia you should be voting him.

yeahh, I was thinking in that too. I'll wait, however, for a DH's post and a Spurgistan's post and then I'll cast my vote.

[cepi]

Again, sorry for the double post. I clicked submit rather tan preview.

.....I think I need a little more input to find out if Spurg is really his scumpartner.

[cepi]

If a townie is 100% sure that someone is scum, then there is no reason at all not to vote. Thus, not voting him is evidence that either (a) you are not actually 100% sure he is mafia, or (b) you are mafia and he is your scumbuddy. Which is it?

What about

c) You still can be his scumpartner although I highly doubt it after your last post.

d) I would probably like to give my last opinions of the game in the case someone hammers. I could be dead tomorrow.

e) I want to read what the other townie and the other scum have to say beofre casting my vote. Basically I dont want this hypothetical situations to happen:

d1)Scum Nº2 hammers Scum Nº1 and can win D-3 with a simple guiding strategy.
d2)Scum Nº2 doesn't hammer Scum Nº1 but somehow helps to vote again his scumpartner. He then can win with another guiding strategy.
d3) Scum Nº2 doesn't hammer Scum Nº1 and he even defends him. He then can win with "I really thought he was town" argument.

There are a lot of subpossiblities here in item e. The point is that even if we lynch right today, D-3 is going to be tough unless we have a lot of input here in D-2. I'm sure Rishi is scum but I still don't know who is his scumpartner. Probably Spurg, I dont know yet. So, Xyl, what town needs is to gather information now that I think town has the little advantage of having discovered one of the

mafiosos

. Every little reaction has to be analysed.

BTW, Merry Xmas gamers.

[cepi]

Awesome, Xyl you impress me. GG. Spurg, I knew it since the beginning. Blame my newbiness, an impatitent IC, and a bored townie.

General thoughts:

This game was practically lost when Rishi voted me. Rishi, I don't know if u can take in count a newbie advice but read : "If you are townie don't vote until you are 100% sure someone is scum. Town weapons are the posts : if we have more posts then we can have more possibilities of winning"

Xyl u really did a good job and had a bit of luck in this game. For me, u were the less supicious of all the four players. U posted some good analysis which made me think u were the less possible mafioso but again u had luck when Rishi and Dean Harper started acting really really odd.

Spurg, I guess lurking and posting some guiding ideas are nice strategies for scum. I kinda feel good because I knew u were scum after that Rishi vote. GG.

And DH. Well, boy, you are strange. I was correct in saving you in D-1 but then u started to act really really antitownie. You can't have a tunnel vision in someone and stop analysing all other players, like u did with me. I kinda did it, as Rishi noted, but I never stoped suspecting the other three players. When this game started to bore you, the best thing u could have done was ask for a replacement and NEVER vote me or even Rishi.

Well, about me, I find this game extremely addicitve. I made a lot of mistakes, but what can u expect? I think I did a pretty god job for my first game and I hope u all gamers had the blast I did.