Let's Beef Up Bodyguard!

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Post Post #22 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:23 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 18, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 0, House wrote:Bodyguard as it exists today is a role that most dread getting. It's all lose and no win for the player.
Incorrect. In most setups, Bodyguard is more powerful than Doctor.

Protecting a player with a Doctor ability allows you to mildly confirm them, and they were probably pretty likely town anyway (otherwise the scum probably wouldn't kill them, and even if they did, you probably wouldn't predict the kill). Unless the protected player has a power role, or you manage to protect twice (gaining a mislynch), this has effectively zero use for town.

Successfully using a Bodyguard ability allows you to fully confirm
yourself
, because you flip, and is almost as effective as saving a town power role as a Doctor is (with the only real drawback being that they can't do it twice). Also, because the number of kills doesn't change, your flip doesn't change the number of mislynches town has. This is much more of a gain than the equivalent Doctor save would be (except in setups where blocking two kills is likely).

When balancing setups, I balance Bodyguard like a fraction of an Innocent Child (depending on how likely it is to hit). Meanwhile, the value of Doctor in of itself is based only on the chance that two kills are stopped and town gains a mislynch. (In both cases, other power roles can become more valuable due to the inclusion of protective roles in the setup; something like an unlimited Cop is much stronger if the setup also has a Doctor, but that's one of the main cases in which a Doctor is better than a Bodyguard.)
What if the game starts in evens?
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Post Post #24 (isolation #1) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:32 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

I think doctor is better when it can save twice, in the case of a claimed PR and when the game starts in evens. Otherwise I agree with cfj that a random townie dying is good for the town.
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Post Post #25 (isolation #2) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:37 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

I would also like to add that scum kill specific towniest for a reason; having a strong and possibly accurate voice in the town for an extra day is another upside to the doctor; however, that upside also applies to a bodyguard.
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Post Post #27 (isolation #3) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:51 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

That player is generally the stronger and/or more accurate player if it's the one getting shot by scum.

The case where the bodyguard is the strongest and/or most accurate and gets shot by scum is just like when the cop is naturally having a good game; it's unlucky and there's not much you can do.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #4) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:35 am

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In post 24, Infinity 324 wrote:I think doctor is better when it can save twice, in the case of a claimed PR and when the game starts in evens. Otherwise I agree with cfj that a random townie dying is good for the town.
What do you think about this analysis, cfj
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Post Post #40 (isolation #5) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:36 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 38, House wrote:
In post 34, callforjudgement wrote:You're saying that the Bodyguard should be selfish, and increase the chances that they personally can solve the game via denying the rest of town information they could use to solve the game?
Not selfish insomuch as protecting confirmed town over maybe possibly town.

That bodyguard KNOWS they'll flip green. He/she can't say the same about their target.
If bodyguard successfully protects and its not multiball, then their target is pretty much guaranteed to be town.
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Post Post #42 (isolation #6) » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:38 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 41, House wrote:
In post 40, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 38, House wrote:
In post 34, callforjudgement wrote:You're saying that the Bodyguard should be selfish, and increase the chances that they personally can solve the game via denying the rest of town information they could use to solve the game?
Not selfish insomuch as protecting confirmed town over maybe possibly town.

That bodyguard KNOWS they'll flip green. He/she can't say the same about their target.
If bodyguard successfully protects and its not multiball, then their target is pretty much guaranteed to be town.
Not like the bodyguard can say, "HEY I PROTECTED SO AND SO!"

And if they telegraph their target, do you really think scum will shoot there?
So what? They did their job, and kept a probably valuable townie alive.
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