Dead Thread - Mini Normal 1829

[mhsmith0]

Wow fear killed that quickly, huh? Or maybe it was the result of my BG shot?

[mhsmith0]

More seriously I consider it HIGHLY likely Nero was shot last night. Part of why I used the BG shot was that if he wasn't shot, his SK equity went through the roof. Him getting shot there suggests that he's probably exactly what he said he was.

[MariaR]

The hero <3

[mhsmith0]

Like, 10% chance I was actually shot for some bizarre reason and 90% chance I explicitly saved Nero last night. Not sure if town will realize that I almost certainly BG'd Nero or Giga, and probably Nero for the claim. We'll see I guess.

[mhsmith0]

btw, when I say stuff like "I take generally solid night actions" (cough, cough, open 646), the BG on Nero would be a good example. That's mechanically the correct play there, especially given the possibility of SK equity. I didn't ever spend all that much time reading the game, since I figured that if Nero was shot I'd die, and if he wasn't, then I needed to look a lot harder at an SK possibility.

[mhsmith0]

@Shadow: I agree with you that day talk makes a game more fun, and I like to have it in my games. That said, wrt balance you're wrong.

Town:
Tracker
3-shot GS
2-shot BG
2-shot vig
VT's

Scum:
Vanilla Cop
Goon
Goon?

With this power distribution, it's scum-sided by MS standards. Compare it to the game I modded:

Town:
Tracker
Doctor
Vig
1-shot BP

Scum:
Encryptor
1-shot Strongman
Goon

Doctor/full vig/BP is much stronger than 2-shot vig / 3-shot GS / 2-shot BG (BG is a crap power, mainly a +1 to give town a very little extra something that SOMETIMES dovetails with other powers in a temporarily useful way, i.e. to give a useful town PR one more night after outing). Tracker is a relatively weak investigative role in a game this size, especially with at least one scum power that can visit. Scum vanilla cop is a pretty useful power IMO, because it can be used to find PR's much quicker and because it can reasonably be used in a seemingly townie way.

[mhsmith0]

One of the big edges to scum in a normal game is that it's not an open setup, so they can fake claim (Maria can speak to this pretty effectively ). That tactical option is a really big deal, especially in a setup where frankly most of the town power sucks. The vig can easily hit a town PR (it's a real down side to having a vig), the GS can get a fake guilty on a vig, and the tracker can get a fake inno on the vanilla cop.

Now, i don't know for sure that the last wolf is a goon, but balance wise I'd pretty much assume it to be the case. A mafia doctor would be REALLY unbalanced IMO given the general lack of town power, especially since it drastically nerfs the vig (1/3 chance of getting a mafia kill blocked by the doc IF he shoots mafia) and the gunsmith (false inno). That'd be way too much scum power against the limited town power. So it's probably just VC/goon/goon, and I guess that means likely elyse then?

[MariaR]

One of the big edges to scum in a normal game is that it's not an open setup, so they can fake claim (Maria can speak to this pretty effectively

M-me why thank you I love claiming cop *snickers*

[mhsmith0]

There was one time I subbed in and claimed full cop (in a game where all the cops were conditional one-shot) with a "missing" peek and then blamed it on my predecessor. Somehow didn't get lynched. That was the most fun I've ever had as a wolf
subbed in here
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post360343
and was shamelessly useless and took wolfy in-thread shots (you could day vig in this game, but with really low accuracy), and yet survived to the end. Was great

[Transcend]

Now i just gotta figure out why thor was reluctant to lynch Titus when they were basically direct ccs.

[mhsmith0]

I'd venture a guess but that would involve reading and thinking

[Shadow_step]

Lol a town bodyguard too
This game is a joke for balance.
Town have have so many PRs a vanilla cop is useless. There is no way my role survives massclaim because of the investigative power already. So the thing that VC can be used like a townie is BS

[Shadow_step]

I don't even care if we lose this now, town have too much power.

[Shadow_step]

My buddy should have targeted Giga yesterday :/
Mh you probably could have gotten lynched with your BG claim. I'm 100% sure nobody would have bought it.

[Shadow_step]

One of the big edges to scum in a normal game is that it's not an open setup, so they can fake claim (Maria can speak to this pretty effectively ). That tactical option is a really big deal, especially in a setup where frankly most of the town power sucks. The vig can easily hit a town PR (it's a real down side to having a vig), the GS can get a fake guilty on a vig, and the tracker can get a fake inno on the vanilla cop.

Now, i don't know for sure that the last wolf is a goon, but balance wise I'd pretty much assume it to be the case. A mafia doctor would be REALLY unbalanced IMO given the general lack of town power, especially since it drastically nerfs the vig (1/3 chance of getting a mafia kill blocked by the doc IF he shoots mafia) and the gunsmith (false inno). That'd be way too much scum power against the limited town power. So it's probably just VC/goon/goon, and I guess that means likely elyse then?

BG is important as he gives a claimed PR another night and we cannot do anything about it.
Mafia VC really is a crap role. Imagine I get a not Vanilla night 1 and kill them night 3. So by now the Vig is cleared town and the tracker/gunsmith have two results if I killed the BG. Don't tell me that is balanced. That's a fucking joke.
Scum don't need investigative power, they need blocking power.

[Titus]

Agreed.

It was unbalanced unless my team got mass cred.

[Shadow_step]

Agreed.

It was unbalanced unless my team got mass cred.

Also, thor probably protected Nero n1. So if we had listened to you. JJD would have had a positive in me day 2. Nero with the vig guilty on me day 2 and IAI would have tracked you to the kill and only Thor dead.

[mhsmith0]

Thor used zero shots. Not entirely sure why but again, wasn't reading carefully so idk.

[mhsmith0]

Well, I guess karnos also being a town pr would be weird. Otoh if he's just ascetic townie it's such an odd power, could well see him getting policied for it. Five town PRs itself can create doubt about whether the roles are legit or not. Though it does argue against fake claiming being useful I guess...

[mhsmith0]

Anyway my death conf towns Nero if ever there was doubt. No way does sk Nero randomly shoot me there.

[chilledtea]

How well do you think mafia played in comparison to town, to even have this argument of balance vs unbalanced? Lets not act like the night actions are the only thing that have helped the town be in this position. Their day game has helped them make great choices during night.

[Shadow_step]

How well do you think mafia played in comparison to town, to even have this argument of balance vs unbalanced? Lets not act like the night actions are the only thing that have helped the town be in this position. Their day game has helped them make great choices during night.

Tell me anything blitz did which was scummy pre claim.
I was just let's lynch blitz.

Tell me anything which I did which was scummy.

[chilledtea]

I think there was a strong association between you and blitz. Also blitz was under heavy suspicion by day 2 itself which didn't help matters.

[chilledtea]

If mafia were to win this game, would one say that mafia played better than town up till this point? There is a chance of this result as well.

[JarJarDrinks]

Tell me anything which I did which was scummy.

I mean, 2 PRs targeted you on N1.