Let's Beef Up Bodyguard!

[Antihero]

roles don't exist in a vacuum. they fit into a setup and a role's power is going to be at least partially dictated by the power distribution elsewhere. the idea of a bodyguard is to have some form of protective for the other stronger PRs while leaving the number of deaths per night unchanged, so it doesn't necessarily buy an extra lynch for town. if you have juiced up town investigatives (or something else), it's good to put in a weaker protectives like bodyguard rather than the higher-powered ones like doc or jk.

[Antihero]

i have nothing against you. also it was my understanding the quasi-hider ability would stop kills directly targeting the bodyguard.

my objection is to the implication that there's something inherently wrong with the bodyguard role. i don't think there is.

[Antihero]

What is the point in a bodyguard using their role to protect possible town at the expense of confirmed town AND be killed from two different targets??

confirmed town (innocent children, friendly neighbors, masons) are good targets to take a bullet for

buying an investigative another night in exhange for your death is also a plus for town (assuming the result is more of a net positive than the quality of your reads, if that's not the case scum would probably just kill you directly anyway)

[Antihero]

i think infinity's point is that (assuming scum are making optimal kills) scum aiming at someone else means they're doing better in terms of reads and day play than the bodyguard is

pedit: lolninjad

[Antihero]

Or they're just an outed PR.

If that outed PR has been a worthless lump, it's stupid to die for them when the Bodyguard is getting more results.

in that case the bodyguard can weigh whether or not the PR having another shot at an action is worth taking a bullet for them and choose to not protect them if they deem it's not.

[Antihero]

Or they're just an outed PR.

If that outed PR has been a worthless lump, it's stupid to die for them when the Bodyguard is getting more results.

in that case the bodyguard can weigh whether or not the PR having another shot at an action is worth taking a bullet for them and choose to not protect them if they deem it's not.

Making the role worthless.

if i were a bg i would gladly take a bullet for an investigative and it would be a net positive.

the same is true for most players, whether they think so or not (people in general are not as good of players as they think they are)

[Antihero]

if i were a bg i would gladly take a bullet for an investigative and it would be a net positive.

the same is true for most players, whether they think so or not (people in general are not as good of players as they think they are)

^also this kind of analysis is being done by scum anyway

if you are indeed more of a threat than the outed PR, scum will just shoot you and there's nothing you can do about it. if scum take aim at the PR, that in and of itself proves your reads/dayplay are not as threatening as the PR's ability.

[Antihero]

All your self-justification isn't going to change the fact that there's just extremely little incentive for a player to use the role.

i have NO investment in any of this. i didn't come up with the bodyguard role. i am not emotionally attached to the bodyguard role in any way. i'm not even particularly fond of the role, i think i've used it once in all my games. but it's not null or negative utility. i am explaining, as matter-of-factly as i can, that not letting scum kill who they want to kill is in fact good for town.

if you disagree with that then fine but don't think for a second that i'm trying to discredit you or that i have a need to "justify" anything.

[Antihero]

(And even if there is a vig, something has gone very wrong if you Bodyguard the vig target.)

if your reads are so balls that you jump in front of a vig kill on scum, your very presence in the game is neg utility and getting rid of you is still a victory for town

[Antihero]

in that case, the vig and/or the bodyguard is/are grossly incompetent

the problem in these scenarios that you punctuate with "bodyguard is worthless" is not the role itself. it's the failure to use the role properly. you could make the same argument for a lot of roles.