Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:27 am

Post by Rishi »

Seventh Vote Count - Day 2


mcpaltp – 2 (TheHermit, neko2086)
ThAdmiral – 1 (Bookitty)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
Boggzie - 1 (mcpaltp)
Zakarum - 1 (hasdgfas)

Not voting: Boggzie, ThAdmiral, Zakarum, opie

10 alive. 6 votes to lynch.


Deadline: November 19, 11:59pm

Five votes will be enough to lynch at deadline.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:22 am

Post by mcpaltp »

I know Boggzie asked to be replaced in the other game he was in. You might want to line up a replacement, just in case.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:27 am

Post by Rishi »

mcpaltp wrote:I know Boggzie asked to be replaced in the other game he was in. You might want to line up a replacement, just in case.
I'll start looking for replacements on Monday, since Zakarum might also need to be replaced.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:52 am

Post by Elias_the_thief »

Damn, Zakarum being replaced would be bad. Basically it forces us to abandon most of our arguments on him, or carry them through without a chance to be defended against.

As for MC, I still feel his case is weak, though I would I would probably rate him my third highest suspect, worthy of a deadline vote, maybe. For me, Boo and Boggzie still top the list. Since Boggzie isnt here to defend himself, I'm happy to leave my vote on Boo.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:44 am

Post by opie »

I pointed a FOS at Zakarum back in Post 218, and while he attempted toaddressed my concerns in Post 219, that post and posts subsequent have not eased my supsicions.

My second concern I outlined:
[i]In Post 218[/i] opie wrote:2. In Post 109, he votes for Bookitty. Rather than provide his own analysis or explanation, he adopt Elias_the_thief's explanation wholly.

I note this because:
(a) Elias_the_thief continued to maintain his vote for Bookitty for the same reasons in his first post of Day Two. [Post 167]
(b) Zakarum, on the other hand, seems to completely ignore her as a suspect without offering any comments or explanations why. Furthermore his points a finger of suspicion at mcpaltp [Post 156]; hasdgfs [Post 183]; myself [Post 183] and calls out Boggzie [Posts 175 and 211].

Elias_the_thief maintained a consistant position from Day One to Day Two, while Zakarum having adopted the same positioned switches positions and makes accusations of four other players in the span of a day and a half [Post 156 to Post 183]
Zakarum's response to this point:
[i]In Post 219[/i] Zakarum wrote: 2. I agreed with what Elias was saying and rather than just repeat what he said I quoted it. Like I said I don’t really know what to look for on day one and I felt Elias made a good point. The reason I was being suspicious or rather looked that way is because the way I think in my everyday off is by bouncing ideas off people. I have suspicions for every person I mentioned even though there isn’t much evidence I figured I would through out what I feel and think and maybe it would spark something in someone else. I mean this is a team effort I am just sharing ideas.
Elias_the_thief then asks for clarification on this point:
[i]In Post 222[/i] Elias_the_thief wrote: Zakarum: Do you still agree with the points I made today, or not? And if so, why have you made no serious mention of the possibility of Boo being scum today? If not, what was it that changed you mind?
To which Zakarum replied that he still agrees with the points made by Elias_the_thief in Post 167 but adds:
[i]In Post 225[/i] Zakarum wrote:The only thing different is that I fell more suspicious of Boggzie than of Bookitty.
The main reason is for pushing ryan very hard without strong evidence even after Bookitty stated that she got a pm regarding replacing into ryan's game.
What strikes me about that last statement is the part I italicized. That reason existed on Day One! Yet no mention of that concern on Day One. The only significant differance between Day One and Two is that ryan turned up town! I am infering, unless Zakarum wants to correct me, that ryan's status as town diminishes the case against Bookitty in his eyes. And this post seems to support that inference:
[i]In Post 148[/i] Zakarum wrote:Well.... does this mean Bookitty is off the hook or could she just have been trying to cover for herself by outing ryan.
Yet in Post 225 he says he agrees with Elias_the_thief's points in Post 167 where he argues that:
[i] In Post 167[/i] Elias_the_thief wrote:This logic still holds true, especially since Ryan was town
I also find Zakarum's comments in Post 225 troublesome because even though Boggzie is his prime suspect due to his behavior on Day One, he never votes for him nor points a FOS at him. Rather he points a FOS at mcpaltp, hasdgfs, and myself instead without providing much explanation.
In Post 219, he explained he did this because he figured he would "through[sic] out what I feel and think". Yet offers little with regard to his number one suspect. That, I find suspect.

But now it looks like
my
number one suspect will be replaced. Even still, I am going to:

Vote: Zakarum


While it may not prod Zakarum, I hope that it will put some heat on his replacement to engage in discussion quickly and substantively so that I can determine if I should focus my attention to other suspects.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:02 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

Bookitty wrote:hasdgfas:

What do you think of the possibility that ThAdmiral and Zakarum are scumbuddies? I'm somewhat leaning in that direction at the moment.
Do you think there is a link between us, or are we simply the two most suspicious in your eyes right now?
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:39 pm

Post by Bookitty »

It was an honest question. I was afraid that my own perspective was tainted with OMGUS, so I wanted to ask someone who had no reason to feel that way, so far as I could see, to get an objective viewpoint.

I've listed my analysis of my three main suspects, and so it's clear who they are. The order varies, and I'm not sure at all that I'm right, but that's where I stand right now, and I've posted my reasoning for it. If you disagree, I invite you to pick apart my logic. It's always possible I've made an error, or am just plain wrong. I clearly don't think that I am, but I don't deny the possibility.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:41 pm

Post by Bookitty »

Rereading this, I realised I didn't answer your question (duh!)... I thought there was a connection there. It was tenuous, at best, and I felt I might be biased. Hence my question.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:17 am

Post by TheHermit »

Rereading.

I find myself agreeing with the suspicion on Zakarum. I'm also not liking neko. He votes ThAdmiral to post, then when he DOES post and suspicion was starting to mount he unvotes, and then revisits the Boggzie issue for a vote (which Zakarum jumps on immediately). I think it's safe to say that if Zakarum is scum, that makes neko scum as well. Adding to my suspicion of neko is a very weird series of events starting at 278. He says he wants to hear from mcpaltp. I ask him why. His response in 281 is basically "I dunno" but dressed as a "You'll find out". After mcpaltp posts in 282, reprinted in its entirety here:
mcpaltp wrote:What? Are you asking me a question or something? If you did, repeat please, I missed it.
neko believes that this comment is enough to place a vote on him. Uh, what? When pressed he explains that this is because of his FoS, which mcpaltp exposed as having little meat on it.

My own vote on mcpaltp was mainly intended to spark a discussion, and it's been squared away as well as it's going to. neko using these same reasons as a lynch-worthy vote without adding anything new rubs me the wrong way.

Unvote, Vote: neko2086
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:19 am

Post by TheHermit »

Bookitty wrote:What do you think of the possibility that ThAdmiral and Zakarum are scumbuddies? I'm somewhat leaning in that direction at the moment.
Important to point out that there are probably three scum in this game. I personally think there's some merit to a Zakarum-ThAdmiral-neko scumteam.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:34 pm

Post by neko2086 »

up. Are you saying that because Zakarum jumped on my lead, that that makes me scum too? Are you serious? Why on earth would mafia follow each other's lead? Zak could very well be scum yes, but that doesn't automatically make me scum.

Also, you conveniently left out this part of my post in 281: "Why would I reveal what I'm expecting to hear beforehand? Wouldn't he just say what I want to hear then?"
You never answered that, either, which I wasn't expecting you to, since it was more or less a rhetorical question, but I thought you would at least consider it. I guess not.

Oh, and I didn't vote on him just for his post in 282. I already had an FOS on him, and after giving him the chance to comment, and seeing that he didn't even notice I put an FOS on him, I went ahead and place my vote on him until I could be convinced to take it off. We have different opinions on how much weight an FOS has, but considering the way I feel about them, my vote shouldn't be all too surprising. And how have I not added anything new?

Now this is really interesting... you say you would agree with the suspicion of Zakarum. You then say if Zakarum is scum, then I am scum (which I've already said is a bit bogus). Well we don't know that Zakarum is scum do we? So, why are you voting for me and not him, when you claim to be fairly convinced he is scum while I "rub you the wrong way." Now, I won't claim to be a top-notch logician, but your logic seems mighty twisted. Scummy behavior? I wouldn't say that quite yet, but IGMEOY. I think my own reasoning for voting mcpaltp is valid, so my vote still stays for now.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:30 am

Post by Rishi »

Seeking replacement for Zakarum. The deadline will be on hold until I find a replacement.
Taking a break from MS. Please send e-mail if you want to get in touch with me.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:01 am

Post by hasdgfas »

dang it, I was hoping he would show up to defend himself.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:04 am

Post by TheHermit »

neko2086 wrote:up. Are you saying that because Zakarum jumped on my lead, that that makes me scum too? Are you serious? Why on earth would mafia follow each other's lead? Zak could very well be scum yes, but that doesn't automatically make me scum.
I never said it did. I'm just entertaining the possibility. However, newbie scum might want to "follow the lead" of the other scum, or they might wish to
Also, you conveniently left out this part of my post in 281: "Why would I reveal what I'm expecting to hear beforehand? Wouldn't he just say what I want to hear then?"
You never answered that, either, which I wasn't expecting you to, since it was more or less a rhetorical question, but I thought you would at least consider it. I guess not.
So asking for clarification of what you're suspecting him for is worthy of upgrading an FOS to a vote?
Oh, and I didn't vote on him just for his post in 282. I already had an FOS on him, and after giving him the chance to comment, and seeing that he didn't even notice I put an FOS on him, I went ahead and place my vote on him until I could be convinced to take it off. We have different opinions on how much weight an FOS has, but considering the way I feel about them, my vote shouldn't be all too surprising. And how have I not added anything new?
Hmm, I could have sworn I mentioned that I thought mcpaltp was just going with the flow yesterday... but looking back I can't find it. Besides, I'm not sure if this is really a scumtell. On Day 1 you have to look for the tiniest reasons for anyone to get lynched. I think he was pressing ryan in the hopes of generating discussion and information. Is it bad? Possibly. But I don't think it's vote-worthy. And, as I said before, getting emotional is not a strong tell.
Now this is really interesting... you say you would agree with the suspicion of Zakarum. You then say if Zakarum is scum, then I am scum (which I've already said is a bit bogus). Well we don't know that Zakarum is scum do we? So, why are you voting for me and not him, when you claim to be fairly convinced he is scum while I "rub you the wrong way." Now, I won't claim to be a top-notch logician, but your logic seems mighty twisted. Scummy behavior? I wouldn't say that quite yet, but IGMEOY. I think my own reasoning for voting mcpaltp is valid, so my vote still stays for now.
I think it's pretty obvious that my vote is intended to generate discussion, especially in a game that's lagging out like this one. I want to take a serious look at all the other players, you just caught my eye first.

Does anyone else have anything to add? How possible is a Zakarum-neko scumteam? Am I jumping at shadows, or do my suspicions have merit?
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:05 am

Post by TheHermit »

TheHermit wrote:However, newbie scum might want to "follow the lead" of the other scum, or they might wish to
go with a "they wouldn't possibly do that" WIFOM gambit. Who knows? However, it pays look at how people might be connected.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:28 am

Post by opie »

I just wanted to drop a real quick note, my wife went out of town and accidently took my laptop powercord, so I'll be offline for the next 48 hours. Sorry guys.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:40 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

I think people are starting to go a bit over the top with the whole "lets jump on zakarum because he hasn't been able to defend himself" thing.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:42 pm

Post by Elias_the_thief »

sorry for my absense. extended thoughts should be up tomorrow.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:44 pm

Post by Bookitty »

ThAdmiral wrote:I think people are starting to go a bit over the top with the whole "lets jump on zakarum because he hasn't been able to defend himself" thing.
How precisely was anyone to know that Zakarum "hasn't been able to defend himself"? I think most of the arguments against him occurred well before anyone knew he had sought replacement, as he did not ask to be replaced within the thread.
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:05 pm

Post by Rishi »

Bookitty wrote: How precisely was anyone to know that Zakarum "hasn't been able to defend himself"? I think most of the arguments against him occurred well before anyone knew he had sought replacement, as he did not ask to be replaced within the thread.
Clarification: Zakarum did not ask to be replaced. He is being replaced due to inactivity, as per the rules of this game.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:33 am

Post by Boggzie »

note: GRandmother died, had to go out of town. I asked to be replaced in my other game becasue there were fewer players. I felt I could catch up here.

Anyway...

Has anyone considered we may be looking at a larger team then just two? I mean we have a larger town. It's hard enough to play scum, if you had only two teammates v town it would be nearly impossible I think.

Right now, I'm through with feeling bad about "yesterday" I made a mistake, if ryan would have taken it in stride, I would have believed him too. Just like everyone else.

I think we're looking at a larger team than just two. I think we may have three mafia folks hiding here. At the moment neko, Zak, and Admiral are sticking out at me. These appear to be the most threatening at the moment.

I want to see how Zak's replacement acts before I toss out a vote. A new person is going to want to play. I think that'll be our tell.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:18 am

Post by Rishi »

Adel replaces Zakarum, effective immediately.

Deadline extended to November 20. However, if a majority of players request it, there can be a one-time extension to December 4.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:21 am

Post by Adel »

I'm here to replace Zakarum.

I've played with BooKitty and ThAdmiral before, and Elias_the_thief a few times before.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:34 am

Post by mcpaltp »

Welcome and stuff, Adel.

ps, boggzie: I was sorry to see you go in the mini we were both in :(. Good to see you back :)
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:27 am

Post by Adel »

a few questions for all of you, to help me with my game read:

1. who are the active players who make content-rich posts?
2. who are the lurking players, who post just enough to avoid attention?
3. which players post many words, but little information?

The more people who answer these three questions, the quicker I'll be able to contribute.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to an interesting game.

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