Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[Zakarum]

Boggzie why would you do the whole im sorry thing after we just gave mcpaltp all that crap for it?

Are you faking it or is he? Are you both scum and your trying to take attention off of him? Or are both of you just very sorry townies and didnt mean to get one of us killed?

Eather way we have very little to go on and i would hate to vote for someone when all i have to go on is that they said they are sorry.

[mcpaltp]

Meh, that was all ryan's fault. In my limited time on the site here I've already been browbeaten at least as badly, and even at my most childish I didn't even consider quoting my role PM. That guy needs to get a thicker skin. No, I don't think you were out of line in the slightest.

We're still at a disadvantage, though... we're at Day 2 and thanks to ryan we don't have much info to go on.

Great. Well at least now I can stop worrying about it.

[Rishi]

Second Vote Count - Day 2

ThAdmiral – 1 (mcpaltp)
mcpaltp – 1 (TheHermit)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)

Not voting: Bookitty, Boggzie, ThAdmiral, hasdgfas, Zakarum, neko2086, opie

10 alive. 6 votes to lynch.

NOTE: Everyone still remembers that this is just a game, right?

[ThAdmiral]

sorry for lack of posting yesterday - my internet was down for about three days. But I'm back now and will be definately contributing to today's scumhunting.

[mcpaltp]

NOTE: Everyone still remembers that this is just a game, right?

:Dramabomb: ITT. Anyway, good to see you posting TA, and I'm looking forward to your contributions.

[neko2086]

hasdgfas seems pretty clean to me. He's the only one who consistently defended ryan even as early as Post 70. It would seem to me that scum would have had no interest in slowing down the ryan train wreck.

I just want to point out that the mafia probably won't want to agree with each other all the time. It would actually make sense to me if a mafia person were trying pushing against it, because this would make them look innocent, as you clearly do here. Maybe he is maybe he's not, and maybe, just maybe you both are scum and you're taking the opportunity to point out your scumbuddy's good deed.

I don't know that I necessarily believe this, but I'd just like to start getting some other discussion other than the pm issue, which is going nowhere except for WIFOM territory in my eyes.

[Elias_the_thief]

hasdgfas seems pretty clean to me. He's the only one who consistently defended ryan even as early as Post 70. It would seem to me that scum would have had no interest in slowing down the ryan train wreck. This would be even more true if, as I suspect, that Boggzie is town as well.

Seems odd to me that you point out that Has was against it, yet dont say anything about myself. I was against the Ryan wagon just as much as he was...but you only give brownie points to Has? FOS: Has and opie connection.

[hasdgfas]

Seems odd to me that you point out that Has was against it, yet dont say anything about myself. I was against the Ryan wagon just as much as he was...but you only give brownie points to Has? FOS: Has and opie connection.

Elias, could you please point out where you were against it, because I don't see it. Unless I'm just badly reading this, you don't really mention much of anything about it.

[Zakarum]

um, yeah. this bandwagon is moving WAY too fast for my liking.
As far as I see it, there is no proof of whether the PM was for replacement purposes or for the purpose of PMing a buddy. Personally, I'm inclined to think its the former, seeing as
1) He IS searching for a replacement in a game, and
2) Sending a pm to his buddy now would be daytalking, and I'm assuming we have no cheaters here. Obviously, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

That being said,

unvote

.
Also, Boo, PLEASE don't do that. He may be scum, he may not, but the fact that he sent a pm to someone that MAY have been intended for you is certainly not enough for me to think you're scum, and if the rest of the town thinks otherwise, then the quality of play in this town is kind of questionable. (aka, you should NOT get lynched based on that alone).

More later.

Very defensive hasdgfas im starting to see the connection between you and opi.

FOS: Hasdfas and opi

[Zakarum]

oh and may i also mention it took me maybe 2 min to find that so you couldn't have searched that hard.

[opie]

I didn't intentionally leave out Elias_the_thief in my discussion on Post 161. However, I think I mentioned every player in that post but Elias_the_thief. That was really an oversight. I was trying to let everybody know my thoughts based on what happened during Day 1, to see if others agreed or if I was off base. I have reread (again) all the posts and the post Zakarum posted was Post 87. Elias_the_thief's first hasdgfs's first defense of ryan (Post 70). However after that post, Elias_the_thief seemed to focus more of his attention on Bookitty than on ryan. Perhaps that is why I didn't include him on the ryan bandwagon.

[Elias_the_thief]

I focus more attention on Boo? How do you figure? I made three posts after I defended Ryan initially (at least by my quick count) and two of them were protesting mc's comment about never voting town, the other post both defending Ryan and attacking Boo. As far as I can see, I was equal in my defense of Ryan and my attack of Boo. Also, I'm pretty sure my initial defense was 86. I'm not sure what happened with your post, but some of those numbers are off.

Anyhow, this point is not too major at the moment. I don't really see any scumtells that tip me off to either one of you being scum individually, so I don't plan to start voting either of you based on just this. However, this IS something that I will note for later in the game. IGMEOY.

So yeah. My vote on Bookitty will stay for now.

[hasdgfas]

ok, thank you zakarum, I was actually hoping elias would show me where he did it, because he says that he was against it "just as much as

was" and I'm not sure that he was that strongly against it. One post defending ryan is not the same as defending him strongly.
And this:

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

if that is supposed to be a defense of ryan, then just about anything can be

Also, how can I be seen as defensive in a 2 sentence post? I asked Elias where he defended ryan? Please enlighten me as to how that is defensive.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok, thank you zakarum, I was actually hoping elias would show me where he did it, because he says that he was against it "just as much as

was" and I'm not sure that he was that strongly against it. One post defending ryan is not the same as defending him strongly.
And this:

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

if that is supposed to be a defense of ryan, then just about anything can be

First, you call that NOT a defense of Ryan? I clearly call both of the major tells on him crap, and say I dont think he is scum. Also, I made two posts defending him, not one. As far as I can tell, you didnt really make ANY posts defending him. You called into question the validity of the PM tell, but you made a post almost agreeing with the appeal to emotion tell. So how did I defend him less?

[hasdgfas]

elias, you said that you don't think he's scum for the "major tells" on him, but you also say

This isnt to say I think he's town

What I get from those combined is that you think he's scum, but not for the reasons mentioned so far. I didn't get a "defense" from it per say, just that he wasn't scum just because of the PM thing. I will say, however, that I can see your side of it, saying:

You called into question the validity of the PM tell, but you made a post almost agreeing with the appeal to emotion tell. So how did I defend him less?

I just assumed that since I was saying how ryan could be right, it was seen as defense of him, but looking back at my posts, I understand your point of view.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very defensive hasdgfas im starting to see the connection between you and opi.

Zakarum, I still would like to know what this is referring to. Is it something in my 2-sentence post, or is it elsewhere?

[Bookitty]

I've had no real idea how to approach this game. I really hate metagame things and this one was no exception. That said, I don't like lurking either, so I'm going to do some analysis.

I thought ryan might be scum. I didn't like his early reactions, and while the pm issue was confusing, I was planning on placing my vote on him before this situation occurred. So I'm not in any position to criticise anyone for voting for him, or for me.

The person I thought most likely to be town did in fact turn out to be town. Not particularly helpful, though, considering.

I don't think Boggzie is scum. I could be wrong, here, and I really don't like what he did. That said, I feel pretty strongly that this is far too risky a gambit. I think he was really wrong, but I don't think he's scum.

I don't like mcpaltp's apology... in fact, I don't like any part of mcpaltp's reaction to ryan's self-inflicted modkill. I think that ryan is responsible for ryan's own actions, and the overreaction by mcpaltp seems somewhat forced. This is where my vote is going, for now.

vote: mcpaltp

I think Elias's reasoning is faulty, and a bit forced, but I'm not seeing him as scummy at the moment.

I'm pointing a minor FOS at ThAdmiral for lurking, and another at Zakarum for this: "Very defensive hasdgfas im starting to see the connection between you and opi" because I don't see hasdgfas as being defensive, and I'd like to see the quotes that support this allegation.

[mcpaltp]

gah, again, It's not "oh golly I'm such a naughty boy for getting a townie lynched. Oh woe is me, Oh woe is town", it's "Oh snap, I just browbeat some guy on the internet so much he wanted to quit the game. I feel terrible, I'll ask if I was out of line, and the friendly

players

will let me know if I took it too far."

If he had been lynched the normal way, I'd be worried that my scumdar was a little off, but I would not be apologizing at all.

Is this clear yet? I don't like thinking that I hurt somebody, on the internet or no.

Hey Bookitty, I'll just re-post this, ok? I think I make it pretty clear as to why I was sorry. I'm really, really, really sick of having to explain myself over and over again.

tl;dr: I am not "sorry" that ryan got lynched. I was sure he was scum. I was dissapointed that he was town.

I was sorry that he modkilled himself and felt like I was responsible.

That was why I asked the other players if they thought I went too far.

Is this clear yet?

[mcpaltp]

I'm amused that my tl;dr was as long as my post. Hay guyz, am I doing this rite?

[Bookitty]

Repeating over and over why you apologised does not change the fact that it sounded scummy. It sounded like an overreaction, and reiterating your explanation doesn't undo the impression it made.

That said, I'd be interested to know what you think of the other town members, and who you find most scummy among our number.

[mcpaltp]

As of right now, I'm the most suspicous of ThAdmiral, due to consistant lurking. (seriously, I could count the number of posts on one hand.) I havn't wanted to press to hard on him, though, to give him a litte more opportunity to come out and post a little more. My vote will stay on him until I get some more content out of him.

I'm a little irritated by the people who keep pressing on me, because I've explained my reasoning

so many times,

and I honestly don't know what else I can say. I'd imagine somebody pressing on me amy be scummy, as I could seem suspicious, but I have no way of telling and no way of accusing right now without seeming absurdly OMGUS-y. This whole episode is making me feel like MS doesn't welcome politeness and regret for potentially hurting someone's feelings.

I'll try to fit in some good analysis soon.

Appreciate your input, though.

[opie]

I'd imagine somebody pressing on me amy be scummy, as I could seem suspicious...

This confuses me. I presume "amy" is a mistype/mistake, I just don't know what you were trying to say.

[mcpaltp]

I'd imagine somebody pressing on me

may

be scummy, as I could seem suspicious...

This confuses me. I presume "amy" is a mistype/mistake, I just don't know what you were trying to say.

Fixed, see above.

Clarified: I imagine that one of the scum could be gunning for me, as they thought that my apology looked suspicous enough for a case against me to hold at least a litte water.


WIFOM-y, I realize, but it makes a little sense to me. Mostly just speculation, and I may just be letting my irritation get away from me.

[Elias_the_thief]

elias, you said that you don't think he's scum for the "major tells" on him, but you also say

This isnt to say I think he's town

What I get from those combined is that you think he's scum, but not for the reasons mentioned so far. I didn't get a "defense" from it per say, just that he wasn't scum just because of the PM thing.

I say that I dont think he's scum, and that I dont think he was town. I was implying that he was still neutral in my book.

[Boggzie]

I'm not lurking, no i'net @ home. I'm not

supposed

to be posting from work, but I didn't want to look even more scummy than I already do. I'net should be sorted by the weekend. If there's specific questions I can answer quickly feel free to fire away as I'll be checking in.

[opie]

Does anyone have anything that we can take away from the death of Spider Jerusalem. Does anyone think the mafia killed him for a particular reason or was it a random kill? I've been trying to come up with something, but am at a loss.

I only count 8 total posts (11, 17, 31, 54, 87, 101, 104, 127). Only five of those being substantive (54, 87, 101, 104, 127). And at the time of death, he seemed, most suspicious of ryan, but had not voted.