MINI 504- PEGBAM...GAME OVER!

[Erg0]

Please hold your applause until the end of the performance.

Reading!

[Erg0]

Ok, I agree that we shouldn't lynch either claimed cop. If one of them is scum, I think it's scot, because there is no damn reason for someone to breadcrumb cop at the start of day 2 just because they got one guilty result. I'm struggling to think of a reason why

anybody

would do that, and all I can think of is a scum rolecop or just a cop who hasn't thought things through. I've learned that assuming stupidity is the path to pain, though.

I'd probably lynch Oman if I had my way (big surprise). He seems to have chosen hoppiness and wackiness to cover for scumminess, probably hoping that his fake dayvig would get him a pass on "too scummy to be scum" grounds. I don't buy it. He also seems to be suspicious of just about every single player.

I don't like this post due to what I said above about cop hints:

Dude. Pretty obvious why he hinted cop, because he got a negative result.

scot couldn't have been less subtle if he hung up a sign saying "I AM A COP". I still fail to see how this could be seen as a good play. d3sisted had a big flip-flop on scant evidence, and Morbuzaan did basically nothing other than throw a blah vote on sammich towards the end of day 1. The timing of this vote is actually mildly interesting, but we'll get to that later.

Vote: Oman

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Lies.

Yeah, he is scum. I am certain of that. The jdodge thing was a joke. This one is not.

That was scot's second post of the day, and the only person that had responded to his vote was Oman. I can guarantee if Panzer is scum then the scum knew scot was the cop based on this post, if not sooner.

There's such a thing as trying to persuade people without throwing all of your cards on the table straight away. He didn't even attempt to build a case that didn't revolve around his investigation.

[Erg0]

Mysteriousness aside, how do you find it interesting?

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Imagine, for a second, that you are scum. Some townie, with his first post of the day, votes for one of your buddies with little to no reason attached. He then proceeds to say that he is "certain" they are scum and that, in contrast to their previous fast vote, it is not joke. Seems like a pretty obvious cop tell (from the scum's perspective) to me.

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I can see where you're coming from, but I think scum would more see it as a mere guess. I've only been scum once in mafiascum, so I hardly know how exactly scum think. I mean, what's to say that you're not scum, recounting you initial reactions to Scot's posts?

It amazes me just how often people try to make perceptiveness a scumtell.

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Suspicion of no-one is also a tell, but pointing fingers willy-nilly just gives you an excuse to vote for targets of opportunity without arousing suspicion.

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I strongly disagree. scot only has one result, he could easily be paranoid or insane. Just because Panzer is a cop that doesn't mean he has to automatically lynch anyone else that claims.

And this:

also, in virtually all of our setups with multiple cop scenarios, the cops are informed of their counter-parts, ergo you wouldn't try and kill the other cop.

is patently untrue in my experience.

[Erg0]

And since my vote is more or less a token at this point:

Unvote, Vote: d3sisted

[Erg0]

One more thing to note: If both of our cops have claimed truthfully, then you can be sure that the scum will want to lynch Panzer more than scot (since Panzer would be the sane one).

ditad: If you agree with JDodge, why are you still voting for Panzer?

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We could use a couple of vote switches, Panzer's going to be lynched atm if I understand correctly.

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Not exactly an overwhelming response...

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and the sky is filled with light
can you see it?
all the black is really white
if you believe it
as your time is running out
let me take away your doubt
you can find a better a place
in this twilight

Yep, I'm bored.

[Erg0]

I was about to ask who docfear was, then I figured it out.

I haven't exactly been on the ball so far, so let's see what a re-read in light of this new information brings.

[Erg0]

Ok, time for my patented "dead scum state of play" post. Here's what I think of each player based on interactions with our known mafioso:

Karen:

Hmmm. Continuously harped on the Team Asshat thing, strongly pushed scot as scum, somehow came to the conclusion that either Panzer or scot HAD to be scum. Looked like she kind of got caught expecting an extension at the end of day 2. Panzer only mentioned her once in the whole game (in his last post). ChronX at least threw in a token FoS in the single post where he mentioned her negatively.

scotmany12:

Cop. 'Nuff said.

KaleiÐoscøpe:

A lot of his interactions with Panzer could be read as distancing. Was the second vote but never gave any real reasoning, and Panzer made a point of singling him out to ask for justifications on a couple of occasions. Not really a lot to go on, but I like him as scum if Karen comes up mafia.

JDodge:

Hard to read as ever. I agreed with him at the end of yesterday, so I can't really harp on that too much. Don't think he's the play for today.

distad:

Panzer listed him as a lynch candidate yesterday. distad was pretty late onto the Panzer wagon, but he was missing for most of it so that's kind of null. Leaning towards town for him.

Oman:

Probably not scum, unless ChronX took distancing to the ultimate extreme by replacing out because of an argument with his buddy. The fact that Karen and ChronX both attacked Oman for "wagoning" helps his cause too.

In conclusion:

Vote: Karen

[Erg0]

It is true that scot's not completely confirmed, but I'm proceeding on the assumption that he's a cop for now. The fact that he lived through the night is interesting, but the kills seem to indicate that the scum went for the player that was least likely to have doc protection (true of both d3sisted and AlSleet), so I'd say docfear was indeed the motivation.

[Erg0]

It is true that scot's not completely confirmed, but I'm proceeding on the assumption that he's a cop for now. The fact that he lived through the night is interesting, but the kills seem to indicate that the scum went for the player that was least likely to have doc protection (true of both d3sisted and AlSleet), so I'd say docfear was indeed the motivation.

Actually, I thought about that last part some more and it doesn't make much sense. It's more likely they were hunting for the doc on the basis that he might be one of the lurky players.

[Erg0]

Out of interest, why doth thou prefer distad? Do you agree that the case on Karen is valid?

[Erg0]

in Erg0's post, you will see that he tries to "clear" Oman off the assumption that i am mafia.

Oman: Probably not scum, unless ChronX took distancing to the ultimate extreme by replacing out because of an argument with his buddy. The fact that Karen and ChronX both attacked Oman for "wagoning" helps his cause too.

LOL. No, I don't believe that's what I said. I cleared him mostly off the assumption that the guy that was lynched and came up mafia was mafia.

You don't think that the massive argument with ChronX, which led to ChronX

being replaced because he thought the game was rigged in Oman's favour

might have some weight? Why the hell would the cop investigate Oman, the guy that looked most likely to be town based on the lynch result? I can completely understand why my play yesterday, combined with puffin's lurking and Panzer's claimed investigation, would lead scot to investigate me. You're really pushing shit uphill here.

[Erg0]

Also, your postulated setup makes no sense. You show a setup that would not put us in LyLo, which I initially thought was just a hypothetical response to JDodge's warning. Based on that, you proceed to build an entire case on someone,

without actually proving your initial assumption that we have two mafia

. What makes you so sure we're not in LyLo with three mafia? It's a far more common number in a game this size. I smell a big fat rat.

JDodge, you'd better have a really good reason if you expect to be able to persuade me to vote for distad.

[Erg0]

Um, you do realise that the three mafia, one SK setup is extremely common in mini games, right? And that we started with 12 players, not 10?

Acting like an ass doesn't make you any more convincing, or any less wrong.

[Erg0]

So if you agree that the ad hom isn't helping, why do you persist with it?

Post 453 is the one where you strawmanned me, right? My response is in 456; you're misreading or misrepresenting my reasons for "clearing" Oman. Note that it was you that said I cleared him, I just said he was probably not scum.

Btw, distad voted Panzer in post 279. The conveniently placed votecount in 278 reveals that he was the fifth on that wagon, not the second as you stated in 453.

[Erg0]

Nah, I don't really want to say anything. It's more that nobody has given me a good solid reason to vote Karen, so I'm going with my gut.

I would have thought that Karen's contribution on this page would be more than enough to sway you.

[Erg0]

Hrmmm... Maybe I was wrong.

Unvote, vote: Oman

You're thinking SK for Oman, I assume?

[Erg0]

Unvote

pending further information from Oman. Probably best not to leave Karen at lynch-1 while someone else is the focus of discussion.

[Erg0]

Wow that was a fast game. I won't say that I was super-happy with my play here, but I do have one question.

WTF KIND OF EEJIT SELF-HAMMERS WHEN THE TOWN IS IN POSSIBLE LYLO?

I don't want to step on anyone's rant here, so I'll leave it at that for now.

[Erg0]

Erm... I doubt that, somehow. Nobody ever won following me.

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^That was to Sim.

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The only thing that gave Kscope away was Panzer's actions towards him, so that would count as a good game from him for my money.

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Also, much as I disagree with the quick cop claim tactically it was by far not the worst town play in this game. At least it gave us some advantage, if not the maximum possible.

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Actually, we thought there

could

be two cops. Big difference. Once scot was confirmed as sane with another investigation result, you would have been lynched. Despite my annoyance at the time, I didn't see him as fakeclaiming scum since scum would have no reason to claim so early. Not to say your claim was a bad play, it would have bought you another day despite a guilty result if I'd gotten my way.

It's hard to say what would have happened if you hadn't been lynched, because it depends on NKs. Oman could well have killed you that night and we would have been in the same position the next day. If you'd lived, you probably would have been lynched the next day and left the town in the same spot on Day 4 (which is fine for you because it was a strong position for the scum). Anyway, it's all hypothetical at this point, your team won so obviously you did something right.

[Erg0]

And what the hell was with Karen. Take a reread about all that stuff involving

ITS A GAME OF MAFIA

etc.

I don't normally get this personal about mafia, but whoever is running Karen as an alt is a complete fucking coward for playing the way they did in this game: belittling the other players and generally being a jerk, then deliberately screwing the town over while hiding behind a safe façade so they can't be held personally responsible for their actions. I'm not planning to take this any further, but I think that if the individual involved has any class at all then they'll come forward and accept the repercussions of their dickery.