Mini 517: Tree Stump Mafia: Game Over

[d3sisted]

/confirm

[d3sisted]

Sounds like an excellent plan. And those who refuse to stump, we lynch. Furthermore, by having more players stumped instead of lynched/NKed, we have unbiased viewpoints coming from confirmed townies.

Understandably, anyone who objects this plan will be seen as obvscum, so by unanimous vote, this plan will take effect as of the start of the game.

Don't noone lynch anyone!

[d3sisted]

Yeah, I'm definitely going for the L-2 stump idea. Basically, NOONE hammers, and the lynchee stumps themselves voluntarily. This means we avoid nights, and we lose townies only to stumpings.

Vote quagmire

for not wanting to kill himself.

[d3sisted]

HoS: Quagmire

for now, I'll vote when we have an update on the votes.

Mod: Votecount please?

[d3sisted]

Why haven't we lynched Quagmire yet?
I thought we had established quite clearly that anyone refusing to be stumped is to be considered scum. Plus, I'm not buying his "blind playing" act one bit. It looks to me like he's trying to find himself a convenient excuse to dodge all of the questions directed at him by turning this into a paradox. It gives him a reason to "be" town, even if he is actually scum.

[d3sisted]

This Quagwagon reeks of opportunism from some of its less vocal members like d3sisted and Max.

That is bullshit. I've stated my case against him, voted him, pushed for his 'stumping' since the beginning, and have even openly stated that I want him stumped NOW. In fact, I could not have been any more blunter than I was in 136.

Quagmire: You are insulting our intelligence if you think we will let you slide through to day 2 refusing to stump and refusing to check your role.

But nevertheless, let's withhold from lynching and give him some time to check his role. If he continues to refuse to stump or check his role, by all means hammer. Until then, this game will stand in a stalemate.

[d3sisted]

Personally I think he is lying and trying to buy time, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[d3sisted]

i find it ironic how in trying to prevent unnecessary deaths we're rushing someone to the gallows

I find it odd how you insist on defending him in this manner.

Please. Tell us how our case/judgment is flawed.

[d3sisted]

There is no reason that a town shouldn't stump. It is in our favour that we prevent as many lynches as possible, as we have the alternative of stumping, which is what we're doing. I agree with you that I would much rather have Quagmire stumped than lynched, but because scum will be refusing to stump, we have no other choice but to lynch hm.

Anyway, I think I ought to

unvote

to prevent a self-lynch.

As an aside, what do suggest we do to get rid of Quagmire, or at least get him to cooperate?

[d3sisted]

Yeah, I'm done with this clown.

Vote: Quagmire

.

Mith is right, it's obvious that by this time you have looked at your PM and you know full well which side you play for. Under that assumption, if you are town, you should have done your part and stumped. But since you haven't, the only logical reason that follows is that you're scum.

Someone lynch him please, or Quagmire just go ahead with the selflynch.

[d3sisted]

I think the opportunist here is you, JDodge.
The only reason you would be so sure that Quagmire is town, is if you're scum. Building upon that, you're making this pre-emptive strike so as to setup tomorrow's mislynch after this one goes down.

[d3sisted]

hey jdodge, scotmany:

instead of bandwagoning and trying to lynch mos, do you want to go for adele instead? she's really stupid and recent events show that she would be just as worthwile a "principle lynching" as mos...

I suppose it's just a coincidence that those two were the only ones against Quagmire's lynch?

Vote: JDodge

FoS scotmany

[d3sisted]

LOL. Cry me an OMGUS, but you know I've hit it dead on.

[d3sisted]

Horribly early stump, but I'm glad at least someone sees what I see.

Vote jdodoge

[d3sisted]

Yes, but out of everyone on the wagon, he looks like the one who bussed.

Ok, now you are just backpedaling on your statements.

I think what we're forgetting here is that I was THE first person to vote quagmire in the entire game, on the basis of his refusal to comply with our strategy. Hence I stand by my statement that I had pushed for Quagmire's lynch since the very beginning. You and JDodge, however, were indifferent to this blatant defiance, and in essence adverse to the idea of town voluntarily stumping at L-2, tantamount to Quagmire-scum's mentality.

That said, I am still confused by how you call me opportunistic and unhelpful, for catching and lynching scum. And speaking of unhelpfulness, what exactly have you done in the realms of scumhunting? Here, I'll list them for you:
1) Followed Quagmire on Adele with absolutely no support whatsoever (does "I do not see him providing any substantial information." ring a bell?). Moreover, seeing as you followed a confirmed scum, I think we can safely assume Adele is town; therefore, you hunted a town.
Now, I know what you're going to say: "BUT BUT THAT WAS ME RANDOM VOTE QQ!!" To this, I'll respond:

hey jdodge, scotmany:

instead of bandwagoning and trying to lynch mos, do you want to go for adele instead? she's really stupid and recent events show that she would be just as worthwile a "principle lynching" as mos...

Do you expect us to believe this statement by Quagmire had no influence on your vote whatsoever?

2) Continuing, you voted SilverPhoenix, who as we all know is now a confirmed town.
3) Following that, you voted me, which is again voting a confirmed town (from my standpoint anyway).

To put it into perspective, my FIRST and ONLY vote on day1 was on Quagmire, who is now a confirmed SCUM.

Now, in the face of the abovementioned facts, I'd like to ask you this:

Also, he lurked through most of day 1. When questioned about it, he said he has pushed for the lynch of quag the whole day, when he only made about 5 posts. I do not see him providing any substantial information. He is not only opportunistic, but unhelpful as well.

...Do you seriously believe this to be true?

Unvote; Vote scotmany12.

[d3sisted]

scotmany12, do you feel there is any chance d3sisted and JDodge could be scum together? As near as I can tell, most of your case against d3sisted seems to be based on his "opportunistic" voting, yet Quagmire came up scum, and obviously if JDodge were scum as well we couldn't call that "opportunistic" either. I am having a bit of trouble making sense of your case

unless

it hinges on the assumption that JDodge is innocent. But now you're saying you don't think anyone is innocent.

Reading through d3sisted's posts from yesterday, there are a few little things that are off - for example, he votes, and then makes a post giving Quag the "Hand", apparently not realizing he had voted already; I tend to believe scum are more likely to forget where they put their vote. And the "unvote to prevent a self-lynch" is a bit off. That's hardly conclusive though, and the case presented at the moment pretty much sucks.

So, scotmany12, would you post a clear summary of what the hell you are actually accusing him of?

JDodge, post your reasons. I am entirely with Adele on this one.

Vote: Korlash

for now. I want to see how he reacts, and the hammer/self-vote combo meal is upsetting the gut.

About "the hand", I had meant to unvote him in that post as well. Then in my "why haven't we lynched Quagmire yet?" post, I realized I made this error, so it was not necessary to put a vote back on him.

As for the unvote, I figured there might be a slim chance that he honestly hadn't checked his PM, so I gave him the chance to do so and subsequently stump. There was also Adele threatening to hammer in 24 hours, which I believed was insufficient, hence my unvote. Call it wishy-washy or whatever, but as JDodge had pointed out, it's really quite hypocritical that we are lynching when our main strategy is to prevent lynches.

[d3sisted]

What a goofball.

[d3sisted]

We need a mass stumpage up in here, starting with scotmany.

[d3sisted]

In fact, scotmany I'll make you a deal: if you stump right now, and turn up town, I will immediately stump myself.

[d3sisted]

Right. Scum is sacrificing himself to take out 1 town. Nice...

[d3sisted]

Right. Scum is sacrificing himself to take out 1 town. Nice...

assumes you were actually going to stump

Then policy lynch me if i refuse to stump.

[d3sisted]

Korlash, I do not believe for a second that you play the exact same in every game, every alignment, every role.

[d3sisted]

Scotmany, why are you purposefully ignoring my proposal?
You do know what happened to the last guy who refused to stump, right?

[d3sisted]

stop defending your partner so blatantly, it's embarassing...

[d3sisted]

If you really believe I am scum, why don't you take up my offer and stump yourself to out me? The only reason is that you know theres a greater than 50% chance of me coming up town, in which case you're just voting me off baseless arguments and fallacies.

[d3sisted]

Ok, so what if I stumped first, would you uphold your side of the deal and follow suit?

[d3sisted]

It doesn't, but refusing to stump is reminiscent of Quagmire.

[d3sisted]

Who, I'd like to add, turned out scum.

[d3sisted]

Oh, right. d3sisted case. Almost forgot.

But nevertheless, let's withhold from lynching and give him some time to check his role. If he continues to refuse to stump or check his role, by all means hammer. Until then, this game will stand in a stalemate.

I dislike the way this statement commands the town. This'll also come back later.

Personally I think he is lying and trying to buy time, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Reasons?

Anyway, I think I ought to

unvote

to prevent a self-lynch.

As an aside, what do suggest we do to get rid of Quagmire, or at least get him to cooperate?

Weren't you just eager to lynch? One can interpret this in two ways - townie who doesn't want a lynch, or scum who doesn't want his buddy lynched.

The whole point of stumping is to avoid lynching. Kind of defeats that purpose if we don't allow him a chance to stump.

I think the opportunist here is you, JDodge.
The only reason you would be so sure that Quagmire is town, is if you're scum. Building upon that, you're making this pre-emptive strike so as to setup tomorrow's mislynch after this one goes down.

When did I ever say Quag = town?

You called me for being opportunistic in voting Quag. Such a statement can only be made under the assumption that Quag is town.

I think what we're forgetting here is that I was THE first person to vote quagmire in the entire game, on the basis of his refusal to comply with our strategy. Hence I stand by my statement that I had pushed for Quagmire's lynch since the very beginning.

Except you realized how much of a disadvantage to you the bussing would be midway through and unvoted with the qualifier of "I don't want him to self-lynch".

Yeah. I gave him a chance to stump. Didn't happen, so I revoted.

You and JDodge, however, were indifferent to this blatant defiance, and in essence adverse to the idea of town voluntarily stumping at L-2, tantamount to Quagmire-scum's mentality.

WHAT. THE. HELL.

I never ONCE said that I was against town stumping. I said that I believed Quag when he said he had not read his role PM.

Given what we know now, do you still believe that?

1) Followed Quagmire on Adele with absolutely no support whatsoever (does "I do not see him providing any substantial information." ring a bell?). Moreover, seeing as you followed a confirmed scum, I think we can safely assume Adele is town; therefore, you hunted a town.
Now, I know what you're going to say: "BUT BUT THAT WAS ME RANDOM VOTE QQ!!" To this, I'll respond:

hey jdodge, scotmany:

instead of bandwagoning and trying to lynch mos, do you want to go for adele instead? she's really stupid and recent events show that she would be just as worthwile a "principle lynching" as mos...

Do you expect us to believe this statement by Quagmire had no influence on your vote whatsoever?

How the hell do you get Adele-town out of that?

I think scum would know better than to random vote a buddy, then drive their lynch for an entire day.

And OF COURSE THE STATEMENT HAD AN INFLUENCE. It does not mean that the bandwagon was non-random.

Ok... yeah, so... is there a point you want to convey here?
If you're trying to say that you and Scot's votes on Adele were random, you know damn well that is bullshit.

2) Continuing, you voted SilverPhoenix, who as we all know is now a confirmed town.

Because townies

never

vote other townies, especially ones who are playing poorly.

No, but scum do.

We need a mass stumpage up in here, starting with scotmany.

How is this in any way good for the town?

In fact, scotmany I'll make you a deal: if you stump right now, and turn up town, I will immediately stump myself.

Assuming you're town, why do you want to possibly take out 2 townies?

Then policy lynch me if i refuse to stump.

Ah, so you do want to take someone else down with you.

Correction, I'm sacrificing myself to take out a scum. 1:1 tradeoff is good for town.

Scotmany, why are you purposefully ignoring my proposal?
You do know what happened to the last guy who refused to stump, right?

How the hell is that refusal to stump?

It doesn't, but refusing to stump is reminiscent of Quagmire.

Who, I'd like to add, turned out scum.

Again, how the hell is that refusal to stump? And I dislike this little "QUAG WAS SCUM BTW" comment.

It's quite simple really. Refusing to stump = scum, as Quag proved. Scot thinks I am scum, I think Scot is scum; so I offered him a tradeoff, which he refused.

[d3sisted]

Because townies

never

vote other townies, especially ones who are playing poorly.

No, but scum do.

You serious? So townies never vote for each other? I hope you were being sarcastic there cause if not, then just wow.

Townies sometimes vote other townies, but scum always vote other townies. Unless they're bussing.

Besides, my original points were in response to your statement that I was being "opportunistic" and "unhelpful"; I explained how now only is that not the case, but it is highly hypocritical too. JDodge just pulled it outta context.

[d3sisted]

d3sisted, that post makes no sense at all. Townies sometimes vote other townies (implying that the rest of the time they are voting scum), but scum always vote other townies. Unless they're bussing. Didn't you just list all the possibilities for both scum and town? What's the point in saying that they all do that? That's rather obvious, and it doesn't prove anything.

Yeah, I realized that but like I said, that wasn't even my original point.

[d3sisted]

Because townies

never

vote other townies, especially ones who are playing poorly.

No, but scum do.

You serious? So townies never vote for each other? I hope you were being sarcastic there cause if not, then just wow.

Townies sometimes vote other townies, but scum always vote other townies. Unless they're bussing.

Besides, my original points were in response to your statement that I was being "opportunistic" and "unhelpful"; I explained how now only is that not the case, but it is highly hypocritical too. JDodge just pulled it outta context.

[d3sisted]

Alright here we go...

Also, he lurked through most of day 1. When questioned about it, he said he has pushed for the lynch of quag the whole day, when he only made about 5 posts. I do not see him providing any substantial information. He is not only opportunistic, but unhelpful as well.

You, Scotmany, say that I scumhunting efforts have been unhelpful, but what exactly have you done that makes you any more helpful than I? I pushed for the lynch of a scum. You:
1) Blindly followed scum.
2) Voted a now confirmed townie.
3) Voted me, another townie.

You also say that my vote on Quagmire was baseless and unfounded, thus making me opportunistic. This is extremely hypocritical, seeing as your vote on Adele had no more evidence than mine, if not less.

Furthermore, to accuse me of being "unhelpful" is immensely hypocritical. My scumhunting has by far been more successful than yours simply because I hit scum, you hit townies. Thus, you are in no position to allege that I am in any way less useful or helpful than you.

Hope this clarifies somewhat, MoS.

[d3sisted]

addendum bwop:
I'm not accusing scotmany of being scummy because he voted a townie. What I said was more of a counter to his accusations.

[d3sisted]

Sure... take the you stump I stump thing. I don't think a mafia would do something so dumb as that. A) As you see people jumped on him for even suggesting it. B) If he did stump and D3s refused it would have been a 1:1 trade off.. a very bad thing for mafia... Or that is my take on it. He more or less seems to have the exact same thoughts I do at times and so I keep getting the town vibe because of that. Sure I could be mistaken, I could be mistaken on you and JD too. But i am stubborn and egotistical and so I assume I am always right! ^^

No. If I were mafia, then I would refuse to stump after Scot has stumped. Town would then be forced to lynch me, leading to a 2:1 tradeoff. Not good for town.
Hence, I offered to stump first, but I quickly reconsidered seeing as if Scotmany is scum, he would refuse to stump, ultimately costing the town a 2:1.
I guess y'all'll just have to trust me that I'll stump after Scot does.

[d3sisted]

True, dat. But I like to keep my word.

[d3sisted]

I'm not going to vote for someone I do not think is scum. I'm pretty sure I caught scum with desisted, so until I find someone else worthy of my vote, my vote is staying on him.

Likewise.

[d3sisted]

@Aimee: The only major issue, as far as I'm concerned, is that Scot is scum.

Here are my thoughts on everyone else:

Adele: Probably the highest on my list after scot and JDodge. She's been going after DGB for the good part of the day, but I couldn't feel any commitment in her original vote.

Aimee: Has been targetting Korlash since the very beginning. Not much to say here, but she's not very high on my list.

JDodge: Defense of Quagmire highly scummy. Most likely scum, but this also depends on scotmany's alignment.

Korlash: Very outspoken, could be a towntell. However, some of his posts give the impression that he's saying a lot to mean nothing. It could just be because he's not responding seriously at times.

MoS: A lot of attention turned toward DBG, on whom he claims not to have a vendetta. Playstyle contrasts starkly to another game I'm in, but that's minor.

DrippingGoofball: Seems pretty firm with her vote on Aimee. The case on her isn't making a lot of sense to me. I'm kinda 50/50 on her..

Mith: Actively hunting and contributing. Doesn't really strike me as scum at the moment.

scotmany12: all-the-way-absolute-one-hundred-percent-no-doubt-surefire town. Obvsly.

[d3sisted]

*Points to Scot*

He is scum! Lynch him...

That is win.

[d3sisted]

vote scot

Fos DGB

[d3sisted]

Aiight let's do this again...

Vote Scot

FoS DGB

[d3sisted]

I think I have to agree with JDodge about DGB blindly following the stumps.
Furthermore, I found your selfappraisal in Post 724 rather scummy:

My agenda is very clearly a pro-town agenda. A being spokestump for the stumps is as townie as it gets.

FOS DGB

[d3sisted]

Impossible for DGB to be my scum partner if I'm not scum.

[d3sisted]

JDodge, did you really change your opinion of scot just like *that*, or are you just voting him as a competing wagon?
Seems like the latter to me. With possible bussing thrown in.

[d3sisted]

Scot is still alive why?

[d3sisted]

@scotmany12: The only person I've even bothered

referring

to in my D1 posts was Quagmire. That's a bit extreme even for bussing, isn't it?

this is interesting, because scot is playing more like misguided town than scum. still hesitant to unvote though.

[d3sisted]

I think it's clear that scot was following JD, but it all depends on how you want to interpret this information. Either way, there is no logical explanation for why scotmany-town would follow JDodge-scum (theoretical). If there is a correlation, it either points to scot scum, or JD/scot scum.

[d3sisted]

Hm. I'm going to have to take a closer look at JD, because my case against him earlier was partly based on the premise that scotmany is scum. Also, i am retracting on my belief that Quagmire would develop such blatant connections to his scumbuddies early game, a theory that scot has just proved likely to be false.

Right now my list goes something like Mith and Mos.
BapaBail[Mith] goes heavy on the buddying up to Quagmire early game, something that I had not quite noticed before (he didn't hold much significance at the time) but is becoming more and more suspicious. These definitely seem like things a newbie might say/do.

As for MoS, it's only a quick mention, but something I think deserves a lot more scrutiny than it is getting. Quagmire's second post nonchalantly tells JDodge and Scotmany to "go for Adele instead [of MoS]". It is possible that he was trying to divert the attention from scumbuddy-MoS, especially during the random stage when statements like those held less weight, and were more likely to be glossed over.

Don't know if I will be able to post again before I leave this Friday, but if I can, I will give some more depth to Mith's case.

Happy holidays, everyone!