Mini 517: Tree Stump Mafia: Game Over

[Quagmire]

here

[Quagmire]

hey jdodge, scotmany:

instead of bandwagoning and trying to lynch mos, do you want to go for adele instead? she's really stupid and recent events show that she would be just as worthwile a "principle lynching" as mos...

p.s. i have not looked at my role, nor do i plan to throughout the course of this game

[Quagmire]

hey jdodge, scotmany:

instead of bandwagoning and trying to lynch mos, do you want to go for adele instead? she's really stupid and recent events show that she would be just as worthwile a "principle lynching" as mos...

Actually, I'm very bright (sorry). What recent events? What "principle"?

not asking you

p.s. i have not looked at my role, nor do i plan to throughout the course of this game

That's an antigame approach. I object.

don't care; i'm doing it anyway

[Quagmire]

i actually want everyone to state right now that if they are "pseudolyncheD" they would agree to stump themselves.

why in the world would i kill myself

[Quagmire]

vote adele

circa my plan on page one

[Quagmire]

guys only four more votes on adele

[Quagmire]

I'm like Jerry Seinfeld. Everything evens out for me.

[Quagmire]

Quagmire,

You should stump yourself if you are "pseudolynched" because the alternative would be for us to lynch you and then the mafia will get a nightkill in.

If you are protown, it would be better for you to stump yourself rather than for us to actually lynch you because that would deny the mafia a nightkill oppurtunity.

i see your point, but since i haven't looked at my role (nor do i plan to), i could just as easily be a lumberjack. so, in that case, i'd be harming my mafia partners if i did that...

and that holds just as much weight imo as if i'm a townie tree and i'm harming the town by not killing myself

and besides, killing yourself is definitely a pussy thing to do

so too bad

[Quagmire]

i understand your sentiments to lynch me but just so you know i have just as much of a chance as everyone else to be town as mafia

so if i do get lynched, it'll be interesting to see what i am

however adele is still the play today

[Quagmire]

ok, let me explain myself better here.

i never ever ever ever ever ever check my role if the game starts in day. i try to put this off as much as possible. that way, i'll just play mafia instead of getting caught up in "what is probably the right play for me to make in this situation depending on my role."

i mean, i guess that tonight i'll find out what i am -- pms from people in my inbox mean that i'm mafia, none mean that i'm a good dude. but let's go over my options.

1) i'm a townsperson and you guys lynch me: then i'm doing the town a minor inservice by allowing a nightkill. OOH! it's not like this game isn't broken in the town's favor anyway as it is

2) i'm mafia and you guys lynch me: then i'm doing the right thing right now, and the town is one-up

3) i'm a townsperson and i stump: then i'm doing the right thing by implementing a part of gameplay that makes this game pretty unbalanced. also, i die, meaning that if the townspeople win then i don't really win because i'm dead

4) if i'm mafia and i stump: then i just fucked the mafia up by fucking over a nightkill and killing myself.

when you combine with the fact that killing yourself is hugely a pussy thing to do, it's obvious that the good that comes out of me not going out without a fight horrendously outweighs the good that comes out of me killing myself

Also: do you have a reason for that, at all, or have you just decided, since you've not checked your role pm and so don't know what your role is, that you don't care which way the game goes and so just want to randomise the whole thing?

i care which way the game goes, because i'd like to win

[Quagmire]

@Korlash, Quag only has 4 votes out of 7 to lynch. We're voting with the intent to kill, but it's not like we'd just sit back and let him be quicklynched. I agree that it's

slightly

possible that he actually doesn't know his role. But I don't think it's very likely. Even if he doesn't know, Korlash, he is purposefully choosing to play in an antitown manner so that if he is scum he's helping himself. This hurts the town, so I fail to see why you think it is scummy that we want a blatantly antitown person dead.

how in the hell am i "antitown"

i'm most likely "protown," although only time will tell

[Quagmire]

We can never be sure of anything. However, "most likely" is a lot better than we'll do most of the time.

I swear to god I have not looked at my role.

although mos you seem very scummy; i'm glad we're lynching you tomorrow because you're really stupid and bloodthirsty and worthless

but adele is today's target fo'sho'

[Quagmire]

however, I won't support antitown play by inaction. If quag won't retract or agree to play a solidly protown game (you know, post "ok, I checked and guess what? I'm a tree! Shocker, no?" so we can get on with the game we're here to play) then I support his lynching.

i don't see how this is anti-town play

i'm as pure as a townsperson can get -- i don't know my role, so i'm not playing with the biases or whatnot that come with knowing my role

and i'm not going to go look at my role today. ever. no way.

i'll find out by default at night, but there's no chance in hell that i'm going to look at my role today

[Quagmire]

I'm not against wanting an anti-ton person dead, I'm against wanting anyone dead on page 3.

It is never too soon to find scum.

How did you get find scum from what I said? In fact, a 3 page day is in no way helping to find scum.. in fact it is helping to not find scum at all!

FoS: MoS...

And I am voting for Korlash because he is very suspicious! He keeps stealing my stuff, the jerk...

...hello, logic please? When you find scum, you vote to lynch them. It doesn't matter if it's the first fucking page. You don't just sit around and say "hmm, we need another 8 pages before we can lynch this scum we found!" That's not how the game works. Quagmire is acting like scum, so I'm going to vote for him. Just because he slipped up trying to find a way to act blatantly scummy and get away with it on Page 1, does not mean that we can't lynch him.

slipped up?

no, i said before the game started that i wasn't going to read my role pm

[Quagmire]

Frankly speaking, you are doing your side a tremendous disservice regardless of which team you happen to be on. The later you make it into the game, the more your distraction will be a detriment to the town and the more powerful your vote will be.

I don't like the idea of a vote being in the hands of a player who is going to play halfassed like this, and I'll do my best to get rid of him early rather than to have him screw us up late.

i'm not playing "half assed," i don't know how many times i need to pound this into your thick skulls

there's a good reason that i'm not reading my role pm, and i've detailed this earlier, and i will not repeat this again

there are good reasons that i'm not stumping, which i've already detailed. pooky, your argument before the part of your post that i quoted sucks so badly, i'm not even going to address it with anything other than you're trying to back me into a corner instead of actually try and figure out what i am (because if i were to respond to anything you say, you'll just dismiss it as wifom and call me scum or whatever)

and i find this pretty ironic that you guys feel like you're trying to guess what i am, because i don't know what i am, so there's absolutely no way that anyone could guess what i am based off of my actions

[Quagmire]

there are good reasons that i'm not stumping, which i've already detailed. pooky, your argument before the part of your post that i quoted sucks so badly, i'm not even going to address it with anything other than you're trying to back me into a corner instead of actually try and figure out what i am (because if i were to respond to anything you say, you'll just dismiss it as wifom and call me scum or whatever)

Actually, pooky's arguments make sense to me. Saying "your argument sucked but if I point out how you'll just ignore me" is a really appalling argument, and something which I can't see any better option to do with than dismiss. It's not a counterargument of any kind whatsoever, so how can I take it into account? You disagree with Pooky that you're full of crap? Well, shocker.

[/quote]

I have a counterargument, I just chose not to say it. Because my counter in that situation is all WIFOM, and we all know that all experienced players just say "oh that's wifom vote quagmire," so it's not like i'd get anywhere

and i find this pretty ironic that you guys feel like you're trying to guess what i am, because i don't know what i am, so there's absolutely no way that anyone could guess what i am based off of my actions

And one more time: how do I know you aren't lying about that? How do I know you didn't make the "won't check my role pm" as a pre-emptive once you'd read taht you were scum?

OK, let's draw a larger point. Let's universalise your maxim. Say no-one opened their role pm and everyone played blind. What would the result be? A random D1 lynch and no additional information to work off of the next day (by which time people presumably are aware). This is a disservice to the town, when each individual is more likely to be town than scum. Is it balanced by a much larger service to the scum? No, it's the same size. Meanwhile, you've wasted however much time playing a game that isn't mafia, and hopped into a swingier setup.
So, why does your plan make sense for the one, but not the many? I'm serious: you claim it benefits you (which it might, but only once you attain a bad metagame rep), but I don't see how it benefits whichever side you are on today.

[/quote]

i'm not immanuel kant

and, as of right now, i'm working on myself. here's why i don't look at my PM:

I always like to look at the game that I'm playing in in a totally neutral sense; if I feel like I'm dissociated from the game, but just viewing it as an outsider, then I feel that I get a better perspective on the game itself than if I'm already playing on a side. I say that because, when I'm mafia, I tend to try too hard to play like a townsperson, and that bites me in the ass. If I'm a townsperson, I'm too focused on picking up on subliminal mafia tactics, so I don't get a good handle of the bigger picture. Being neutral tends to take away those disadvantages for me, for whatever reason.

Day one is always the worst. There's no information and people just jump on bandwagons for the stupidest and littlest things just to get things going -- there's nothing I hate to hear more than to vote for someone "just to get things started." To do this, I get as much information that I can. I do this in a number of ways that I won't tell you. However, my voting-for-adele policy before the game is a trap, in a sense. I won't say how.

Today I haven't been able to scumhunt so much because I've had to spend most of the time detailing why I won't stump myself or why I won't read my PM that I haven't been able to really get information about specific people.

Going back to the first few paragraphs, though. This helps me. If I find out that I'm a townie, then I've got a good basis and list of things to delve into once a new day dawns -- it's like I've set up an outline of stuff for myself and things to look at, and to give myself direction in that sense helps ground me in figuring out what I want to know. If i turn out to be mafia, I've got a good sense of how to act and what to pursue. It's very simple, really.

[Quagmire]

I don't necessarily understand why I'm being lynched because I won't check my role PM. I mean, I'll definitely figure out what I am tonight no matter what happens, so isn't wasting a lynch on me a stupid idea and a play on random chance?

[Quagmire]

Look at it this way, Quag.

From an innocent's point of view, it is better to stump than to allow the town to lynch you, correct?

There's a 75% (from your POV) chance you are town. Thus, you should play as though you are a town.

Therefore, when we get close to lynching you, you should stump if you really haven't looked at your role.

So, we're not wasting a *lynch* on you. Unless you are going to refuse to stump in the face of that AMAZING, IRREFUTABLE LOGIC. And if you do, it's your own damn fault.

Vote: Quagmire

. Screw waiting, I'm already tired of this nonsense.

but i could be mafia, and i'm not going to tear away from that possibility right now. Here's the way I see it:

I will know what I am tomorrow. That means that I'll actually know my role, which will mean that I won't be playing blind. I'll be a townsperson/mafioso just like everyone else.

Which means that if you lynched me today, you'd pretty much be waisting a lynch when you could more effectively find surer scum today by bandwagoning certain people until they're lynched or they stump.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

[Quagmire]

Stump

I need not explain.

Opening Role = Good
Not Opening Role = Semi-Good
Pretending Not to open role = bad

If you have not opened your PM you would have been replaced as that is not playing the game therefore you are lying. Stump Or My vote is on you

why should i be replaced if i don't know my role pm? i'm a contributing, active poster in this game...i just don't know what i am.

[Quagmire]

If you haven't opened your role you shouldn't have confirmed you are confirming you know your role

i confirmed that i've received my role, it's just sitting unopened in my inbox

[Quagmire]

Quag, I understand that you are saying you haven't opened your role. And I understand that until you do so, I will be pushing for your lynch. And I understand that you getting lynched, or being forced to stump, will hurt whichever team you happen to be on.

I believe that's five.

mith, what i'm saying is that you should *at the very least* wait until tomorrow, where you guys won't hurt yourselves in lynching me. essentially, what you're doing here is policy lynching me, and it's not going to benefit the town until i've become a "normal" player.

silverphoenix: i figured that i'd vote for adele before the game started because she tried to argue against the theory of gravity, and there's not going to be any better information for me to pursue on day one.

[Quagmire]

jdodge is right, it's pretty much the definition of "hypocritical" to lynch me when "trying" to prevent unnecessary lynches.

face it, if you do lynch me, it's a policy lynch, and nothing more -- which isn't scumhunting