[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[shos]

So, I've been thinking about this for a while, and thought I'd post it here. Here's an idea for an open micro 9p setup:

Flavor: the Police Department just got inflitrated

town:
1 sane cop (regular cop) FLAVOR NAME: Deputy bla bla
1 insane cop (gets wrong info) FN: same
1 paranoid cop (gets always guilty) FN: same
1 naive cop (gets always not guilty) FN: same
1 cop-immune ("you did not manage to investigate this person") - FN: Sheriff
1 jailkeeper ("you did not manage to investigate/kill this person") - FN: Jailer
1 Sanity Cop (may or may not be sane) FN: Police Psychiatrist

mafia:
1 redirector - chooses A and B, and all actions directed at A turn to B. FN: spy, mischief master
1 godfather (returns town for sane, scum for insane) - FN: spy, mischief apprentice

Players do not know their sanity of course.
Overlaps happen: If an Insane targets GF they get scum etc
Flips will reveal "sane cop - town".
Game will start with a night (N0) - the scum cannot kill during THIS night.
Scum have daytalk.

Opinions?

[shos]

Sounds similar to saulres' Precinct Madness.

If you talk about some marathon 5p game, then I probably took the idea from there, yes.

So all those cops and there's only one Mafia they can actually find?

There's more to the godfather than this, it's not that simple if you think forward. but yes, I think the scum are slightly strong in this game - town will have a challange. that's why they got N0 free.

Similar, but unlike saul's the cops flip with sanities and mafia actually flip with their role (plus some other roles). I don't really understand the sanity cop though.

Sanity cop checks the Sanity of a person. if he is sane, and he cops an insane guy, he'll recieve "insane". if he is insane and cops paranoid he'll get "naive". if he(sane) cops a non-cop he'll get sane too. obviosly no use of copping self

erm, the setup is not broken due to the redirector - he is very valuable for scum. for example, if town want to have all cops target a claimed-and-not-CCed JK to verify their sanity, redirector can redirect the JK to himself(redirector) and it'll create exactly the opposite, buying another day; so town might want to spread their cops more widely etc.

stuff can happen wierd; no regular cop is able to target themselves, but if a cop recieves guilty on A N0 and town on B N1, after B is a claimed JK not CCed, then he knows automatically that he is Sane. Soooo the redirector is NECESSARY. do you think it is balanced? I thought about replacing the GF with a one-shot framer-for-a-night for example(AKA framing one person just for one night), which could create a redirection to a framed person or something instead of GF power...I've been thinking a lot on this and I'm not quite sure about the balance and stuff. I'm sure, however, that it is not broken.

[shos]

lol really? 100% coincidence! I'll go look it up

[shos]

1p game setup eh? xD what's his win condition? xD

erm, T-bone made a good point in Saulres' game that flipping with the sanity makes the game much much easier for town. but uh, in my setup, I think that would make scum try to have a specific person lynched - someone whose reads were mislead or something....that's interesting...

[shos]

people A and B must be different.

[shos]

I'll think about these stuff somewhen..

[shos]

This one occured to me.

Reflex Test

v1.0

Vanilla Townie x6

Town 1-Kill 2-Shot Vigilante

Town 1-Shot Watchback Bulletproof x2

Mafia A Goon

Mafia A 1-Shot Watchback Bulletproof

Mafia B Goon

Mafia B 1-Shot Watchback Bulletproof

• "Watchback" is short for "Reflexive Self-Watcher". Basically, if they get shot, they become informed of whoever targetted them that night.
• The vig has two shots, but if he gets a kill with his first shot, he can't use the second.

The base concept I started with is "Bulletproofs that know who shot them". I felt that having both town and scum with the role, plus both town and scum killing roles (and being multiball so even scum could have been targetted by either), would be the necessary symmetry for things to work.

I don't know whether this particular setup is any good, but I do think the base concept could be successful in some way.

This looks cool but theres like 1/3 chance that three townies are shot n1 after a mislynch...that might put town in a veeeeeeery nad position. If BP claims he can be CCed by goons. Vig hits scum=50% dies next turn ...town ia underpowered.

[shos]

Alright, idea; tell me what you think about it.

Prison mafia

Scum:

4 Racist murderers(goons)

Town:

5 Protected inmates(1-shot BP)
2 Prison guards(Both are both Vig and 1-shot BP)

Plurality lynching
Day start
Scum wincon is if nothing at all can prevent winning - 4v4 isnt enough, 1v1 vs a BP vig is a town win.

[shos]

well, no, as long as there are vigs, tie isn't enough for a win, and if there aren't any vigs but there are still BPs, then plurality CAN get a scum lynch in a tie and a kill blocked, etc. that's the idea.

And I don't think there will be too many boring nights; scum getting vigged is definitely not boring, vigs & scum shoot same person, etc...all in all there are only 7 shots to be blocked, and these can be removed via lynching. etc.

Do you think this is balanced? the 'too much scum' gets kinda balanced with the BP & Vigs combo, I think.

[shos]

also consider townies trying to soak scum NKs, etc.

if

town

is too strong 1 of the scums can be of flavor: godfather/arch-murderer and be BP as weel

[shos]

infinite vig shots, I think.
that is not breakable because scum can fakeclaim vig whenever. if scum sacrifice, say, 2 of their team to claim vigs, it'll be chaotic, and they will still have enough men for a game of mafia.

[shos]

i would make it prison guards get vig only.

d1 massrole call is nearly borken by all the BP claiming and then the vigs claim (w/ BP) then either mafia CC and 1v1 or claim BP and then becomes POE. this would at least discourage them from outing right away.

also i would have at least one mafia (maybe 2) be BP so its not as easy to POE the entire game (tgis would make BP+vig better overall then)

hmm.
there's lots of small changes to balance that can happen; for example, if earlier I had 2 BP vigs then I can make only one of them BP or both, or have one scum BP etc...

generally I want to keep the number of players as it is, and just play with the BP-numbers in each team and/or add roleblocker for sucm until this gets balanced.

Try this
3 goons
1 mob doc

1 complusive vig
1 deputy vig (but does not know it), thinks vt
1 town doctor
4 inmates, each w one manual vest (pick a night immune to all kills)

nah, that's already a different setup. my idea was the general concept of lots of mafia vs powerful town.

[shos]

10v3 mountainous, when someone dies they just lose their vote. I mean, they can still talk, but lynch is at number of VOTES alive/2+1.

Is this balanced?

[shos]

I meant as an entirely different game.

[shos]

10v3 mountainous, when someone dies they just lose their vote. I mean, they can still talk, but lynch is at number of VOTES alive/2+1.

Is this balanced?

that's just mountainous with a treestump nightkill, right?

then no

why not?

[shos]

whiteflag? (less townies too prob)

[shos]

Whiteflag only if the aurvivor is not the igniter or the backup.

[shos]

I'd just have a 2 goon v 2 goon v 5 1-shot BPs

[shos]

Jingle - scum want to scumhunt too, remember? They need to take out the other team asap. Crosskills are very viable (odds are 24/49, almosy precisely half, on N1 if nolynch, and after a mislynch - 5/9 for at least one crosskill) and scum would actually try to hit the other team, so.

Town needs lynches or lots of shots to die..this seema ok to me, I think. Best case for town is 3 scum dead by d2, lol.
I could run this as an experimental micro/open somewhen

[shos]

Inspired by my own 11PM setup, whose goal was go make a balanced 11p multiball, I tried to redice that number even further. Came up with this:

9p setup

1 Cult A Leader & Poisoner

1 Cult B Leader & Poisoner

N unrecruitable townies
M poisonproof townies
7-M-N vanilla townies

Cult leaders may only recruit once, and cannot recruit each other. They can also only poison once.They cannot recruit and poison at the same night. A poisoned person will die at the end of the following day.

Trying to figure out best numbers for M and N for balance purposes, and I also considered giving the culters weak modifiers.

[shos]

Inspired by my own 11PM setup, whose goal was go make a balanced 11p multiball, I tried to redice that number even further. Came up with this:

9p setup

1 Cult A Leader & Poisoner

1 Cult B Leader & Poisoner

N unrecruitable townies
M poisonproof townies
7-M-N vanilla townies

Cult leaders may only recruit once, and cannot recruit each other. They can also only poison once.They cannot recruit and poison at the same night. A poisoned person will die at the end of the following day.

Trying to figure out best numbers for M and N for balance purposes, and I also considered giving the culters weak modifiers.

this is immensely scumsided. If a townie gets lynched day 1 and both cults succesfully recruit, town has no hopes of winning. If one recruits, there are 3 scum in an 8p game. Still incredibly ahrd to win for town.
Another problem is that town doesn't know how many scum are alive.

^Since the weak is mainly used for mafia targets, maybe you can make them hated instead?

By weak I mean, if cult target cult they die instantly.

And fpr balance, what if I makr the cult poison OR recruit? And nightless after N1 of course.?

[shos]

and...?

[shos]

I'm not sure wha you're trying to say
if they pick recruit, they discard the poison. it's either or, not both, they choose.

[shos]

There are two cults.
you can either recruit someone, or fail to recruit+die, or you can poison someone and stay alone.

[shos]

Let's restate this

9PM

1 Cult A Leader

1 Cult B Leader

N unrecruitable townies

M poisonproof townies

7-M-N vanilla townies

Cult leaders:

• May either 1-shot recruit OR 1-shot poison.
  
• If they target a person of the other cult(only by recruit), they die.

Poison:
Poisoned people die at the end of the following day.

After N1, the game becomes nightless.

Trying to figure out best numbers for M and N for balance purposesץ

[shos]

woah, 3 is very much. I'd go with 1-1 or 2 unrecruitables, only. remember that town have loads of lynches in their ammo, and that cult are culthunting too.

but yeah, variable numbers can be a thing, and I'll think about telling the townies. I can run this as experimental sometime.

[shos]

ooh yay page destroyed again

[shos]

Something very, very similar has already been done, I think.

[shos]

Bump

[shos]

So, failing to get this filled in the micro queue, I figured I'll try to make this an open.

In the past I've run this setup (as closed theme), the smallest possible multiball, after Shark Mafia failed miserably to do it 9p:

Old and still supercool

Mafia A Goon
Mafia A Roleblocker

Mafia B Goon
Mafia B Roleblocker

1xBP townie
1xBP townie
1xBP townie

and people thought it was amazing and cool, and it indeed was.

Trying to make this an open, I tried adding 2 town VTs for balance.

So, opinions?

New and Improved

Mafia A Goon
Mafia A Roleblocker

Mafia B Goon
Mafia B Roleblocker

3xBP townie
2xVT townie

[shos]

So, opinions?

New and Improved

Mafia A Goon
Mafia A Roleblocker

Mafia B Goon
Mafia B Roleblocker

3xBP townie
2xVT townie

I think if you make this a day-start, this will be very optimal.

Day start, yes.
Note that without the VTs the game still was pretty good.
I'm wondering if this can work with just 1 VT? this will make him a sortof named townie. Possibly even stronger than 2 VTs for town?

[shos]

Oh, I am sorry. I did mean they be 1shot BO. This town with its bulldtproof modifiera is something kike a 5-6 man towbies. So majority ruke doesnt fit here.. that is the koint