Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Tyler the Creator]

...

[Tyler the Creator]

inb4 jake/dunn scumteam

[Tyler the Creator]

show quotes where you hint that you know he's cop

[Tyler the Creator]

okay but we've established that there can't be a godfather right?

[Tyler the Creator]

so this is either a scum gambit or they're both town

[Tyler the Creator]

same

[Tyler the Creator]

the first thing i do if im godfather, have a good idea of who the cop is, pretty much know that they're checking me, well, it wouldn't be to CLAIM COP

it'd probably be something like

jump up and down for about five minutes

then coast to endgame on an undeserved win

something like that

[Tyler the Creator]

And while dunn's scum gambit is ridiculous, his claimed town gambit is x10 more ridiculous

how so?

[Tyler the Creator]

if dunn's town i could see him being new and coming from a different site meta where bonkers shit like this happens all the time

the thought process "let me be the fall guy for the cop" isn't so ridiculous outside the MS bubble (it's only bad play in a very LAL environment)

i just wish his N1 check lined up more

[Tyler the Creator]

but i guess it would've gotten busted despite me pushing that point so meh

and it involves jake playing along which was never gonna happen

might of been interesting though

[Tyler the Creator]

What was that fakeclaim going to accomplish? Like nothing? And he didn't drop it immediatelt after Jake claimed . Only after Jake (and I to an extent) did not believe his claim.

also why does him not dropping it immediately give it more credence to being a fakeclaim and not a gambit?

[Tyler the Creator]

see my next post; that's in a world where dunn's town and this gambit played out smoothly

[Tyler the Creator]

sidenote; creature has posted since replacing in but has given zero content

[Tyler the Creator]

are the wagons at their peaks on xy and desmond similar enough in constituency with unflipped ppl that it's more likely xy is also town or am i moonlogicing?

[Tyler the Creator]

In what world if you're both town would scum help resolve the 1v1

[Tyler the Creator]

oh you didn't think GF could be a thing, right

[Tyler the Creator]

fuck can you guys tell i don't gambit ever?

[Tyler the Creator]

so the exact thoughts that went behind the zach kill (probably) uni townread - makes dunn look bad - kill off the wagon

guess what jaack's pushing

[Tyler the Creator]

and it must have been someone who didn't pick up on any PR vibes from jake and didn't bite on dunn's head fake

[Tyler the Creator]

^which narrows it down less because it sorta looks like xy could have been trying to look like she bought into it but meh

[Tyler the Creator]

so there's at least one scum in jaack/xy i think
bins feels town was actually gonna vote her coming into today but don't really remember why
paranoid of tool a bit but meh, cross that bridge when we get there
creature needs to post - thought keyser was town not sure what you guys are seeing there
dunn's play doesn't really make sense from scum and there's a cop inno on him, seems like a bad lynch imo
robert is basically confirmed town

who am i forgetting?

[Tyler the Creator]

oh forgot jake, he's town

[Tyler the Creator]

Does this make Xy/Jaack team less likely?

yea probably

[Tyler the Creator]

vote:jaack

[Tyler the Creator]

xy might be town

i need to realize i can't read lurkers for shit

[Tyler the Creator]

nobody is arguing that it was a good play

bad doesn't equal scum

what's his scum motive

[Tyler the Creator]

out the cop? he already knows who the cop is

[Tyler the Creator]

and even if he doesn't - he knows that the cop stomps him out in a 1v1 for being the CC to him

trading here makes no sense

[Tyler the Creator]

the fact jaack isn't jumping down my throat for voting him here speaks volumes of his supposed conviction for dunn being scum

[Tyler the Creator]

It makes more sense than his claimed gambit, that's for sure.

what's his scum motive

[Tyler the Creator]

it's creature/jaack

game has been cracked

[Tyler the Creator]

As for not going after you Tyler, its because I have one confirmed scum in my eyes (Dunn) and both you and Bins have been scumreading me for not buying dunn's junk, so I have no clue which of you is scum (I'm still under the assumption we have 3 scum).

1) dunn isn't confirmed scum
2) that's not why I think you're scum, can't speak for bins

[Tyler the Creator]

It's not worth my time to bother with possible scum when I have a confirmed one I need to get lynched.

i think what you mean to say is why waste your time building a narrative based on associations that you know you're gonna have to abandon eventually anyway

things like this just don't ever come from a town mindset - if you're that confident dunn's scum, use your time to look for partners, is what I'd expect

you notably aren't making an effort to do that

[Tyler the Creator]

if Dunnstral is scum, toolenduso is almost certainly also scum, and vice versa. I don't think Dunnstral is scum, so I don't think toolenduso is either, but if Dunnstral is lynched today and is scum, toolenduso is a very good choice tomorrow.

im not following you here

[Tyler the Creator]

fuck it's like every other xy post i either like it or just don't

probably one of those folks that vet posts regardless of align

only real explanation

[Tyler the Creator]

well for one

that simply isn't a scum/scum interaction whichever way you slice the cake

or rather why would tool knowing that you're scum softing a role make a spectical of himself by telling people to not talk about it?

it's just a stretch either way

doesn't make you both more likely town together either really

[Tyler the Creator]

Like wtf Tyler. Move your vote to Dunn already.

he's town, man

look, if this is about teaching the kid a lesson so that he never does stupid shit like this as town again, then yea, we've got a couple mislynches to burn and there's no way for me to argue that

but you can't convince me that scum plays anything remotely like how dunn has played here

throughout the entire game

[Tyler the Creator]

The kid has what? Going on 500 fucking posts?
Has been scumhunting in all of them?
Get's inno'd (and it was pretty obvious he was because you didn't come out the gate pushing him again) as GF and decides to fakeclaim cop because? fuck easy scumwins he just wanted to challenge himself more?

no fucking way

[Tyler the Creator]

mmm yea creatures probably scum

[Tyler the Creator]

If he is town, I don't even give a fuck b

yea i gathered that

[Tyler the Creator]

Bad idea for town. We have a pool of clears and our advantage is in keeping as many people in that pool as possible.

no shit?

[Tyler the Creator]

He kept saying he knew I was cop day 1 which I find weird cause I certainly wasn't telegraphing my role.

i mean day 1 i didn't really have any idea but day 2 you gotta admit it was pretty obvious you were a role

that's why the night kill narrows it down so much; like who's not keen enough to pick up on that

xy/jaack/creature are what im thinking

[Tyler the Creator]

Doesn't her claim basically clear her?

no? kinda?

i will say the way she claimed looked town regardless but why does it clear her?

[Tyler the Creator]

I have too much integrity to do anything stupid so I won't get myself modkilled but if people aren't going to lynch Dunn I'm just not going to do anything else because I don't endorse any other lynch. We have imo confirmed scum and nobody wants to lynch them.

I'm dead tonight anyway so I'm just a glorified tree stump at this point. Idk what the hell happened to this site but it has certainly gone down hill since I joined 6 years ago

you

do

have an inno result on him, yea?

[Tyler the Creator]

Well, gotta go, currently seeing this:

Jake - His hammer looks towny, he already showed intent to hammer Desmond, though, he wasn't overcautious when he wanted to hammer.
Robert - He seemed decently town despite the investigation.
Tyler/Tool - They haven't done anything particularly scummy/indicative, their general motivation looks good so far.
xyzzy - Kind of liked him D1. Haven't done much D2 or D3 to get a read from.
Jaack - Should say, his pushes are pretty terrible.
Bins - I dislike her posts since D1. Her claim is a coincidence, which makes me think she could be some kind of mafia PR.
Dunnstral

Bins

Why you targeted Robert and Dunn?

1) hammer looks towny, why?
2) robert is literally confirmed town so good job
3) tool and i are different people thanks
4) that's not really true at all? everyone posted more day 1 than day 2 or 3 and xy has posted readable content on all of those days - which way is your read leaning?
5) all of his pushes? which ones? why?
6) what does "her claim is coincidence" mean precisely? Like you're saying she's scum because her results were easy to give? why can't that also be true if she's town

6/6 of these reads seem fake to me

[Tyler the Creator]

i particularly love the quip about jaack's pushes while pushing the same shit jaack's pushing atm

[Tyler the Creator]

I like a creature lynch more than a Jaack lynch because all I really get from Jaack is very un-hesitant bad logic. Which is opportunistic, but could come from town (ugh). The more I look at Keyser's posts the more believable a set-up bus looks.

thing is im isoing keyser and calling his push on ha bussing is sorta hard to swallow

[Tyler the Creator]

she means that that's bold for a scumpost

[Tyler the Creator]

and i sorta agree

but jaack seems like he's got balls so it's more meh really

[Tyler the Creator]

we could "afford" it

it's pretty easy to gather im quite against it, though

i just wanted to no for sure if it was worth my time to argue with him about it

[Tyler the Creator]

Votecount 1.09

iraonavp

(L-3)

:

Tyler

, bins, toolenduso, Jaack

heuristically_alone

: Keyser, Dunnstral,

Floof

Zachstralkita

: xyzzy,

heuristically

Keyser Söze

:

iraonavp

Not voting

:

Robert2424, Zachstralkita, JFSF

Decided to look at votecounts and this one is interesting - it's pre doctor claim too

relatively strong townreads on bins and dunn
so either half the scumteam wanted to all pile on zach (xyzzy) - which would be strange considering that there's a cool ira wagon already rolling
or

at least

one of jaack/tool is scum

a part of me wants to think that ha might be getting bussed there, namely because paranoia, but also because i don't ever have faith in town's abillity to get a wagon spinning on scum day 1 without some sort of bussing/distancing sparking it
and im leaning on it being keyser because a tool/jaack team realizes how shit out of luck they are if ha takes off and how bad this would make them look (gonna sprinkle some meh ontop of that but im rolling with it for now)

which it did - gonna keep reading on

[Tyler the Creator]

quick correction - that count was just a spell after ha claimed doc, still semi reflective of how things were standing before it though

[Tyler the Creator]

and after that - spec all falls to shit because you got ira claiming which basically cements the ha lynch

i slightly dislike tool being quick to jump on but that's mostly meh

i sorta like jaack and dunn not twisting their panties about it right away and jaack pursuing robert, like i said, seems bold for scum

jaack or tool/creature?

gonna move on to day 2

[Tyler the Creator]

Votecount 2.05

Zakk

:

Tyler

, Dunnstral, xyzzy

xyzzy

: Toolenduso, Jaack,

zakk

Dunnstral

: JFSF,

Zachstralkita

Not Voting

:

Robert2424

, Bins, Keyser Söze

this throws a giant wrench in a lot of tool/jaack/xy combos i think - but that's nothing new

[Tyler the Creator]

Wish granted

Votecount 2.10

Desmond_13

: Dunnstral, xyzzy, toolenduso,

Robert2424

, Jaack

Dunnstral

: JFSF

xyzzy

:

Tyler

, Bins,

Desmond_13

,

Zachstralkita

Not Voting

: [Keyser Söze]

see i asked for this votecount because i thought it would look interesting but a townflip is a boner kill
jake ends up hammer but that's meh (don't get why people are townreading or scumreading him for it)

this is why i originally wanted to push on bins a bit today because if bins is town then the xy wagon is towndriven out the ass
BUT that's probably naive to think that there's scum within xy/bins because i later realized how similar they were in constituency

des and xy shared votes with more unflipped peeps like jaack/tool/myself and dunn if you want to count his very open willingness to vote that way if it came down to it

this makes me think that, save for some bussing (with regards to jaack specifically who carried over his vote into today) that it makes xy more likely town

so assuming there's scum on the desmond wagon (which there is, let's be real here) my POE goes like
Dunn - who for you to think is scum, would need to be a GF plus gambiting in a way that makes no sense
Xy - who makes not a lot of sense as anyones partner save for

consistent

bussing from the majority of our unflipped brochachos
tool - who has relatively decent content and im a sucker for effort and always townread it but there are some disconnects in pushes and he seems to kinda be going with the flow a bit recently with regards to creature and jaack stuff but i do like how he's not latching onto dunn right now because that seems like a REALLY important mislynch for scum to grab if they wanna win at this point
and then jaack

who's opening to start today wasn't good, and his play today has drifted towards scum almost transparently
i'll go into this in a few

[Tyler the Creator]

dunn you really outta start reading my posts

[Tyler the Creator]

I like a creature lynch more than a Jaack lynch because all I really get from Jaack is very un-hesitant bad logic. Which is opportunistic, but could come from town (ugh). The more I look at Keyser's posts the more believable a set-up bus looks.

thing is im isoing keyser and calling his push on ha bussing is sorta hard to swallow

HAHAHA

ok I didn't read this one

well don't laugh because if you want me to go the creature route over jaack today then you gotta help me break that barrier

im kinda almost at that point though after looking at things

[Tyler the Creator]

I'd believe that des was a counter wagon looking at that

y

[Tyler the Creator]

IF keyser is scum then the wagon dynamics mean literally nothing because only 1 scum was playing the game day 2 against like 10 town

a town driven wagon on town becomes a lot more believable then - but it already was to start with because of how much traction they shared

seriously guys read my posts

[Tyler the Creator]

...and I'm not following the logic.

i think if keyser is scum it holds significantly less weight now that ive been thinking about it

why do you think jaack keyser is an unlikely pair?

[Tyler the Creator]

Less likely than Keyser/Xyzzy anyway.

why

[Tyler the Creator]

And if the Keyser slot is town?

then i think that makes xy pretty likely scum

and that means both scum were on the desmond wagon - so it's with either you/jaack - and jaack and xy don't really feel like buddies

[Tyler the Creator]

How I fit scum perfectly? This is surely a pretty opportunistic attack.

but stuff like this doesn't really look town to me, so, meh

or dunn's just scum?

[Tyler the Creator]

like you guys see my dilemma right? there's bussing going on no matter what; but xy has been a common and consistent recipient of it, if scum, which makes them a low priority for me at the moment

[Tyler the Creator]

Is that what you're talking about with the whole "unflipped people voting xyzzy" thing?

...kinda

i swear i laid out my thoughts a touch more succinctly earlier

[Tyler the Creator]

i guess one of you/jaack fit the mold of an aborted bus kinda but id need to go back a read day 2 and how you both progressed there

[Tyler the Creator]

That can, but why can't that also be true if she's scum?

well my point wasn't that it makes her town, my point was that it doesn't necessarily make her anything
you initially had that as a point for bins being scum

[Tyler the Creator]

wait does keyser/xy make sense?

yea no?

[Tyler the Creator]

where are you leaning

[Tyler the Creator]

tool the missing blank is that we have similar wagon constituency on flipped town already in desmond

and that most of my suspects for scum have pushed, some consistently through multiple days, on xyzzy

it's not as shallow a thought process as your abridged version there and ive readily admitted already that it falls somewhat into the category of moonlogic but im trusting my feelings on that for now

[Tyler the Creator]

it's a mix of hard cold facts and gut blended into a read that coupled with the fuzzies ive gotten sporadically from xy that makes me feel good about that read

now only if they would post more than once a week

[Tyler the Creator]

i'll vote dunnstral as soon as someone convinces me that his play today is scum motivated

all have yet to do this

just woop, must be a godfather

[Tyler the Creator]

creature have you read the game in full because it doesn't really seem like you have tbh

[Tyler the Creator]

maybe it is just creature/xy

mostly because why the fuck do both scum jump down dunn's throat?
i feel shitty about turning around on jaack now but holy shit have his pushes been mechanical

but it makes sense more with xy starting to posture up on jaack once he got traction if creature is scum i think

[Tyler the Creator]

who's scum?

[Tyler the Creator]

@xyzzy^

[Tyler the Creator]

you have something quoted in post 1937 that i didn't even say tool

[Tyler the Creator]

oh wait i get it that was something creature said and you mis-pasted my name somehow?

and yea that's an alright point

pretty down to lynch creature i think

also xy's waffle on creature doesn't look good just now considering they didn't give any other scumreads and basically called everyone else town lol

[Tyler the Creator]

Well, now I noticed Bins' crumb. If she's not Voyeur, she must've been planning to claim that sometime later. Though, I don't see how much use of her claim she would make besides a bit of town cred for the claim. So her claim is most likely true rather than a coincidence.

...you just noticed that now?
why does that crumb completely change your read out of the blue like that it wasn't even a good crumb really

[Tyler the Creator]

so who do you think is scum then?

[Tyler the Creator]

yea no sorry guys this needs to go first

vote:xyzzy

[Tyler the Creator]

seriously, please

let's do this

it came to me in a dream

it feels right

[Tyler the Creator]

I like enough of what Keyser did while in this game to not feel strongly that Creature is scum, but I'm not a big fan of how Creature himself has played so far. I definitely am having a problem with seeing everyone as too town and not committing. I guess by process of elimination I'd have to go with Creature as the most scummy player at this point (I feel like Jake's claim probably makes him town). I think probably the most compelling piece of information for me here is that I feel like all of the people who are voting for Creature have valid reasons for doing so right now, whereas the votes on Dunnstral don't feel good to me at all. with that in mind I'm gonna

VOTE: Creature

What do you think of our good friend Jaack-o
And Tool-o

binnssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[Tyler the Creator]

like there's only so many times you can try to spark a dialogue with someone before the "maybe they're just social inept" turns into "okay yea they're scum who literally is incapable of engaging you at all

[Tyler the Creator]

and if creatures scum he did a bang up job on not reading the scum chat

like how did you literally miss everyone's claims?

[Tyler the Creator]

that seems like it would have been a topic of discussion

mean maybe he faked it but shrug xy is just scum we should kill that and move on

[Tyler the Creator]

But then who's mafia with xyzzy? creature/tool? And jaack is town?

mebbe jaack

[Tyler the Creator]

it's not really a super strong point for creature town i guess, but its something
plus keyser would have needed to bus ha into the dirt
plus jaack is wking it
plus xyzzy is pushing it
plus stuff

[Tyler the Creator]

Want to wait to hear from Tyler first

and are you seriously still considering me scum? just curious

think ive town told at least 100 times day 3 alone lol

[Tyler the Creator]

Tyler, why xyzzy and not Jaack?

i think that xy is scummier

[Tyler the Creator]

VOTE: Jaack

[Tyler the Creator]

day's obviously dragging. ill vote any of jaack, xy and creature. current preference put in order for convenience.

not voting dunn, scum want that mislynch they're gonna have to work for it.

[Tyler the Creator]

VOTE: xy

im down

vote:xyzzy

[Tyler the Creator]

^scumposting

[Tyler the Creator]

doesn't look like i missed much lol

[Tyler the Creator]

Checking in once again to say that while I still cannot support the lynch of any player other than dunn, I continue to see the futility of arguing that today and I have no other major problems with a creature lynch.

Between creature and xyzzy, I believe xyzzy is probably more likely to be scum but that creature's flip will provide us with more info either way.

guys read this; he's like transparently talking out of both sides of his mouth

[Tyler the Creator]

"dunn is the only lynch ill support"

"but ill lynch creature or xy"

xy is more scummy but creature provides more "info"

like those don't feel like real thought processes and it makes me wonder which one of those two he's looking to bus if it comes down to it

[Tyler the Creator]

ill hammer creature i suppose, lord knows this game is thirsty for a fucking flip already

but ill let him post something first he just got prodded after all

[Tyler the Creator]

Well, will you lynch Dunn or Jaack tomorrow?

really sucks when people replace in and don't do anything

i mean this game was really, really fun for a good while there - now i don't know if we're imploding or if everything i know is a lie

and the original players here, me bins dunn and jaack i suppose are gonna care more about the game obviously but

how much is it to ask to play the game you signed up for?

you don't really even need to read the thread, honestly, just jump in and interact, lord knows we were all active before the apathy bit everyone in the neck

a no lynch would be catastrophic - but xyzzy is flipping scum - creature is only

maybe flipping scum

i don't know why we moved on from xyzzy

ill be around if someone wants to chat

[Tyler the Creator]

in fact the only reason why creature is in hammer range vs xy who we couldn't get in hammer range; is because that's the only person xy is down to lynch for some reason??

it just doesn't feel clean, if that makes sense

[Tyler the Creator]

why does one person saying whatever idgaf let's hammer and get a flip and someone else power lurking and not compromising on shit lean you more town on the latter?

[Tyler the Creator]

and i feel shitty for doing this because there's a day left on deadline and we've got likely town in a slot that's not being played so it's gonna be hard to lynch scum regardless but i can dream

[Tyler the Creator]

thanks zulfy

[Tyler the Creator]

like i dunno if im hammering this then it's gotta be tonight

i work tomorrow and it's till past deadline and im not letting a no lynch happen

[Tyler the Creator]

jake

[Tyler the Creator]

vote:creature

[Tyler the Creator]

[Tyler the Creator]

Dunn I do not approve of that avatar change just sayin

[Tyler the Creator]

gonna iso keyser quick and then vote

[Tyler the Creator]

Hi toolenduso! I was overjoyed to see your name on the player-list.

"see your name on the playerlist"

that line creeps me out

[Tyler the Creator]

VOTE: Dunnstral

This "no GF would do that" argument is terrible.

dunn is confirmed town btw

[Tyler the Creator]

meh.

vote:xyzzy

[Tyler the Creator]

jaack and tool are both more town than xy by play 10 fold

plus xy stapling their vote to creature is probs a bus

[Tyler the Creator]

We should really remove xy sooner rather than later.
Plus they're probably scum.

[Tyler the Creator]

I'd also prefer a jaack lynch as I think he's trying to get the vote off of xyzzy just to save himself for later. He doesn't have a reason to suspect tool/tyler over xyzzy in his position as town

i kinda see what you're saying here

like he's playing the game a day or two ahead

[Tyler the Creator]

The big question is how you're so oddly confident that xy isn't scum.

[Tyler the Creator]

Everything else you're doing is great and all but that's a thing that you haven't really given a solid answer that I've read.

Though to be fair I've been skimming mostly since Day 1.

[Tyler the Creator]

yes

[Tyler the Creator]

Man, Keyser would make sure to bus the fuck out of H_A but left his leftover partner out of this?

his other partner was in a better position? less noob? less liability?

[Tyler the Creator]

xy doesn't really fit with that theory, though

[Tyler the Creator]

my heartstrings have been pulled on

vote:jaack

[Tyler the Creator]

i mean playing into GF paranoia is one of scums very few plays to make right now so im not all too surprised

TOF has looked pretty town regardless - that's something you forgot to mention

jaack seems like a better player than to just spout paranoia for the sake of spouting it

[Tyler the Creator]

im all aboard for this lynch now i think

like this is the first time ive clicked this thread and didn't have a complete change of heart about everything after sleeping on it

[Tyler the Creator]

The fact scum doesn't have a Roleblocker (likely, but unsure still, just because they didn't target me with it)... makes this seem incredibly townsided. Even if they did have a roleblocker, it feels townsided. Just throwing it out there while it is unlikely, hey four scum is possible.

Anyways, Jaack can have his last words but I'm gonna guess it's gonna be along the lines of "lynch... Dunn..."

what does scum gain/lose by roleblocking you vs not?

[Tyler the Creator]

unvote

[Tyler the Creator]

dunn, do me a favor

iso tool - look at keyser interactions

[Tyler the Creator]

meh, it's just like

why does it seem like he goes out of his way to talk about ha to keyser and keyser to ha so goddamn much

225 look at how many words it takes him to explain his "snowball townread" to keyser - very fluffed up - compare that to the rest of the interactions in that post - concise - to the fucking point

278 what prompts this dialogue? tool didn't have a townread on keyser. maybe he had experience with him sure; what does a town tool gain from explaining to ha that keyser's posting style is null here? this feels like a stretch to say tool cares enough to explain that when he's got scumreads he could be castrating like he's doing to xy atm yah? i mean maybe im reaching a bit here but it just seems like grasping for stuff to talk about, that's the best way for me to put it into words

and yes tool evidently has enough arms to push scumreads and talk about his nullreads but still

this is a lot of interaction with scum about scum to the point where I'm like... damn calm down boy

282 "not a whole lot to work with so far" is weird considering he has loads of shit to say about ira. you guys remember ira right? he's comparable to the quiet kid that sits in the back in math class
keyser posted more readable content - far more

315 it's probably null that it was a continued dialogue because tool this game has been good with follow up on everything - very good - but again with the making sure that it's known that it "doesn't necessarily make keyser town"

if that's town trying to make sure that people in the game aren't reading people for silly reasons then tool's read on keyser is mostly irrelevant to the conversation right?

that's just the start and it's not much but it's the first time ive actually taken a good look at tool in a while and it wasn't as town as memory served me

am i going crazy?

[Tyler the Creator]

[Tyler the Creator]

bins, im still town, been town all game

let's not self-destruct, we're gonna win this

let's focus on talking about tool for a minute because that's an important sort and i don't want to be paranoid of the puppetmaster but things are bothering me and i need consultation but everyone else seems to be on autopilot or writing their last wills when we have all the time in the world and mountains of content to work with

[Tyler the Creator]

And I would also like to hear Tyler's response to this post.

oh yea sure hang on

[Tyler the Creator]

i mean playing into GF paranoia is one of scums very few plays to make right now so im not all too surprised

I mean, I agree, but why say it now if Jaack is the only scum left? As in, why say something he doesn't really need to say until later when he's at L-1?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tyler the Creator]

(ive never used that emoji before but holy shit is it satisfying)

[Tyler the Creator]

Via heuristically_alone's interactions

Moderate suspicion:
Robert2424
Zachstralkita

Mild suspicion:
Floof
toolenduso
Jake from State Farm

Good feelings on:
Dunnstral

Keyser strikes me as a meticulous sonuvagun. i don't think he leaves his buddy completely out of his readslist here; i think keyser knows he's in lurkmode - paranoid state and afraid to townread his buddy

supplemented by the fact that tool - at that point - doesn't look that bad to after a ha scumflip

in short the tool read is super out of place

jaack, xy and I are left off as a means to plant false positives

mostly because

i think

we're (or at least they were, i haven't been pushed all that much this game) being pursued by the other scum?

i think tool fits the bill

[Tyler the Creator]

xy's ATE last page really didn't look fake to me

jaack is still iffy - think it's him or tool

but comparatively jaack has a narrower sight and doesn't seem as sure of himself; might be town who's been wrong on a lot of reads this game and trying to put the pieces back together where things started to fall apart... or he's the last scum alive with no hope of winning and talking about GF paranoia (which after thinking about it kinda adds up with his monstrosity of a case on robert earlier) - tool is very much this fake hard tunnel of xy and then broadened in the background in the form of jaack and myself... which is the easier path the prance down here, not sure that means scum because his points on xy do look okay; but not beyond the capability for scum to fake

[Tyler the Creator]

i think when it comes down to it you can twist interaction tells anyway you want pretty much; they're the butter scum spreads over their toast because town always have weird things here and there because

they aren't the ones who know shit is gonna look bad down the line

and that's 95% of tools scumhunting today and it's making me rethink things

[Tyler the Creator]

and only a scumrobot wouldn't be swayed whatsoever by xy's post last page there too

[Tyler the Creator]

yea, i think ive talked myself into it enough

vote:tool

[Tyler the Creator]

very fun

i could elaborate more; my points on tool there are just super scattershotted thought vomit that probably isn't gonna do much for anyone and i just realized that

[Tyler the Creator]

i wanna lynch tool

but then jaacks last couple posts suck

don't wanna read into the kill too much, dunn wasn't ever getting lynched

[Tyler the Creator]

Utility of a Tyler town flip would totally depend on how such a wagon developed since I'm the only one with interest in it right now

this line seems kinda fake because how often have you gotten anything fruitful from "wagon development" when there's probably 1 scum left jaack?

[Tyler the Creator]

[Tyler the Creator]

sorry no motivation to play mafia the last couple days

[Tyler the Creator]

if it is just jaack i'll probably end up feeling pretty silly but im still leaning towards tool

ughh

[Tyler the Creator]

not even sure why tyler being scum is part of the discussion

dude's town af

[Tyler the Creator]

Tyler's read on Keyser also bugs the fuck out of me and I think that's the main reason.

really? because i maintain that ha interactions did make keyser look a good bit more town

like the only explanation for that much badmouthing to me would be like some hate developing in the scumchat for some reason

or just that ha felt like going really heavy and sharp on the distancing when he didn't really need to?

honestly we lucked out with creature replacing in and just emanating scum because you saw how tough that blockade was for me to break before that creature lynch

bussing usually doesn't fool me either; ive gotten pretty immune to that lately

[Tyler the Creator]

This isn't the way you should be talking if you're town in this scenario.

what do you want me to say?

i feel like ive obvtowned pretty hard this game

reads have been mediocre to okayish i think too

[Tyler the Creator]

because any competent mafia player should be able to read my iso and come away with nothing other than "yea this guy's town"

and the fact that you aren't doing that means you needed a reminder is all

[Tyler the Creator]

here's an idea - we lynch between tyler and tool today

that way we either probably win OR tyler doesn't need to most likely get mislynched by bins in lylo

vote:tool

[Tyler the Creator]

you have been here not even a week the rest of us it's going on months, ircher

calm down and realize not everyone still has as much energy as you left

thanks

[Tyler the Creator]

and it's not as if i haven't laid out my thoughts on tool and jaack already, jaack specifically ive changed my read on at least a dozen times now

whatever happens to be what my thoughts are on things is usually pretty well known to people right about when those thoughts happen

[Tyler the Creator]

i don't think that if im scum here; systematically shooting all my allies at night would be a thing id do just because 'wifom'

[Tyler the Creator]

fml

[Tyler the Creator]

vote:tool

don't really see myself voting bins today

[Tyler the Creator]

internally conflicted about whether to do a dab and iso tool or just skip the second part

ill probably just wait to make sure bins is town

seems the most time efficient way to go about things at this point

[Tyler the Creator]

and by iso tool; i mean lay out my thoughts more coherently this time

[Tyler the Creator]

tbh i won't be mad either way; like tool's got a good scumgame and he had me fooled for a good part of the game

but all those hours of blood sweat and tears this entire town put into the game

all the replacements

all the macho claims

IT'S A PERUVIAN NIGHT CLUB LIVE A LITTLE

look at tool's day 1 interactions with both flipped scum; it's too much interaction too early and it's all overblown and awkwardly out of place about shit that town doesn't care about

this is my first 3 way

[Tyler the Creator]

In case xyzzy is town and I die tonight, you should lynch jaack then tool in that order

I think either a Jaack or toolenduso lynch would provide worthwhile info, but I think I'm leaving more towards toolenduso now.

VOTE: toolenduso

Trying to lynch tool d4 was the hardest path tyler could have taken (I guess aside from a tof lynch or something dumb). Tool had also been mostly an ally up to that point, so it seems odd for scum to break that peace.

VOTE: toolenduso

But I can see I'm pretty dead today anyway, so this is mostly for posterity.

[Tyler the Creator]

those are only there to give me strength while i read this thread (lord help me)

there are so many other things i could be doing right now

[Tyler the Creator]

damn some mastermind threeway scumpiracy

not hardly

it's just a classic case of scum fumbling all over themselves over trivial things day 1 because dat paranoia

oh gosh oh gosh must interact with buddies at all costs

[Tyler the Creator]

I feel like HA is a good lynch. But I feel like it's a tad fast to lynch right now and I kinda want to sleep on this and come back and look at it with a fresher eye tomorrow. So in the meantime I'd like to ask for no hammers on H_A just yet. And certainly don't do it without getting a claim out of him first.

i think i said before this looked good for tool imo

too obvious

dear god just lynch me

he's literally saying "don't lynch my scumbuddy yet until i coach him on what to fakeclaim"

like look back at tool's reaction to the claim i bet it's long after a good chunk of town reacted poorly and him going right along with it

or a waffle because actually i remember some people got off ha right away because he claimed PR would have to go back and check

[Tyler the Creator]

@ 2528

yes you have accurately described the progression of my scumread on you

the semantics nickpicks and some bullshit about tone were a nice touch

[Tyler the Creator]

okay so since bins isn't gonna be convinced by weird over-interaction...

possibly looking into tool's progression on creature the day he got lynched would do the trick

[Tyler the Creator]

i remember it was between jaack/xy/creature

like it was definite we were lynching one of those

and creatures shelf life about expired at that point

[Tyler the Creator]

Votecount 1.09

iraonavp

(L-3)

:

Tyler

, bins, toolenduso, Jaack

heuristically_alone

: Keyser, Dunnstral,

Floof

Zachstralkita

: xyzzy,

heuristically

Keyser Söze

:

iraonavp

Not voting

:

Robert2424, Zachstralkita, JFSF

Decided to look at votecounts and this one is interesting - it's pre doctor claim too

relatively strong townreads on bins and dunn
so either half the scumteam wanted to all pile on zach (xyzzy) - which would be strange considering that there's a cool ira wagon already rolling
or

at least

one of jaack/tool is scum

a part of me wants to think that ha might be getting bussed there, namely because paranoia, but also because i don't ever have faith in town's abillity to get a wagon spinning on scum day 1 without some sort of bussing/distancing sparking it
and im leaning on it being keyser because a tool/jaack team realizes how shit out of luck they are if ha takes off and how bad this would make them look (gonna sprinkle some meh ontop of that but im rolling with it for now)

which it did - gonna keep reading on

im the fucking greatest

[Tyler the Creator]

tool you used that same exact case on me day 2 - fucked off for a week and came back to see town wasn't buying into it and dropped that read like a bad habit the rest of the game

scummy af

[Tyler the Creator]

also your theory about me lurking out day 1 is first of all bs and also falls apart to reason when you look at how i was perfectly comfortable interacting with keyser from very early on in the game and questioning him sometimes relatively hard on shit

[Tyler the Creator]

This is an interesting way/reason for town-leaning Tyler the Creator [based on the nature of him being mass-town-read]. I kind of switch off to the popular town/scum reads on D1. Have you found this observation-method accurate in previous games?

Not sure whether I've used this particular way of looking through things in an MS game before...I'd lean toward no. I think I actually approached it this way because I'm fresh off a game night where me and a couple other scummers played Resistance. I won't go into the details of how that game differs from forum mafia, but suffice to say that when scumhunting in that game you need to look at things a little differently. Specifically, you have to watch for ways that people make choices that seem to align them with certain other players.

meanwhile this is the most obvious scum/scum interaction ive ever read

[Tyler the Creator]

Ugh why couldn't the last scum have just been jaack.

bins can you not feel how fake this is?

[Tyler the Creator]

i mean playing into GF paranoia is one of scums very few plays to make right now so im not all too surprised

I mean, I agree, but why say it now if Jaack is the only scum left? As in, why say something he doesn't really need to say until later when he's at L-1?

you guys are gonna call me crazy

but this is the post that truly woke me up to tool scum; well just what he ended up doing around this time anyway this post was just a slap in the face catalyst kinda thing

[Tyler the Creator]

it's a boring question that tool doesn't care the answer to and that isn't logic a guy like tool would write someone off for in the first place because it's literally null

if jaack's the last scum there he'd of been saying whatever shit would stick to break out of a lynch the fact tool didn't have any paranoia about that detail..

and completely brushed off xy town telling super hard to keep right on tunneling that just doesn't come from town

[Tyler the Creator]

i could quote all the really town posts from my iso?

like, tool's felt obvscum to me for a while.

how can i help you see it, bins

[Tyler the Creator]

Spoiler:

didn't like his questions in 34 and 40

the purpose isn't immediately clear

like if they're pointed - as in he thinks you're scum then why would he be asking about your behavior like he assumes you're posting for some specific gain, implying town

if that's him trying to get a read on you it's not as bad - but then the follow up is bad because your first response was kinda lame - and then your second response you started to push back a little bit and gave sorta a non-answer so i think the hesitance from him which essentially amounted to "need to see more" felt out of place

much lateral thinking, wow look at that scumhunting

A+ sir. This is town!

meh, i don't know why but i expected you to have some kinda soul read on zach by now cuz my impression is you've played a lot together but that's fair
i wanna say town but it's completely gut

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense
bonus points because i thought robert's entrance was awkward too

it'd be cool to know why out of everyone he thought jake was the most untrustworthy before i go more into it this though

check out the nice smooth inquisitive tone here! nicely done. this is what a town post looks like!

actual followup on the questions in a way that looks like he actually was genuinely curious of the answer too? bonus points as well!

Robert2424's RVS post is based on Jake from State Farm's RVS vote:

oh duh, that makes robert's opening a lot less awk looking then

what's this i see? changing his views of the game when new info or different order of events than what the player initially perceived in a non-awkward flowing way?

feels town

my reasoning for not committing to a specific opinion on Dunnstral so far is two-fold

im not sure if you're missing the point here or what but i think it's perfectly fine to not be comfortable with commiting to stances this early on especially when it comes to erratic players like dunnstral

and keyser sorta beat me to the punch here a bit; but what would really help is if you walked everyone through your thought process behind what initially prompted those questions and explain how if you thought that dunnstrals behavior was scummy what about his responses lead you from that to what now appears to be a null read

nice follow-through on the xy push here

looks like a genuine push

Bins says that if Dunn was scum-aligned, he would've dropped the joking front and became more serious after he was called out for it. I don't think this is true.

I think that this kind of WIFOM logic is used by scum-aligned players to justify their reads on players who are acting oddly, because they know what their alignment really is.

In this example, I was accusing Bins of knowing that Dunnstal was town-aligned, and using his erratic behavior as evidence to support this when it could support any justification, so Bins' inner bias and scum-aligned knowledge is showing.

yea but i asked you why you've moved on from that read - not to elaborate on it more lol

i just think there's a bit of a jump in your thought process here that doesn't feel town
within your elaboration here even if you don't agree with a certain methodology (how bins was going about approaching how to read dunn) i think that you're forcing scum motive into something that seems like an okay thought process to have

like im following the scum probably stop being loud after getting ridden by multiple people very early on thing well enough and ive taken similar approaches before so you capping it off with a declaration of "i disagree!" and then saying it's a scum thing doesn't sit right

and you going into what you thought was imaginary about it in detail should be a thing you do pretty soon here or else im gonna have to assume that you backed down from your reasoning just because you were getting scumread for it and that ends badly for you

if tyler's scum - then he's a goddamn master manipulator because just look at this post

look at the firmness yet fairness of how he's treating ira (scumread of his at the time) here

scum don't push like this; they don't leave space for town to wriggle out like this or care what town's side was

[Tyler the Creator]

got bored 5 posts in you get the idea, though

pedit - oh hi

[Tyler the Creator]

Are you serious? You went back over your own ISO to find places where you thought you did a good job of looking town?

And it's working?

gotta be your own hypeman sometimes

[Tyler the Creator]

^this is what a tool scumpost looks like that obviously isn't highly previewed and re-edited

will rip to shreds shortly been waiting for this

[Tyler the Creator]

Number one thing about this post and tool's posts all throughout this lylo and the last couple days even. Notice the tone.
Very defensive. A LOT of oh this logic doesn't make sense. Fuck feelings. Black and white going on.

All right lotta problems in that post about Jaack.

even the initial line is scummy; the tone here is of a "oh here we go again it's so obvious all the problems with anything that have to do with my being scum"

but then why respond to it in this way?
who's the audience of this post?

It's not a boring question and the answer to it wasn't null.

Yea it was. That's a very surface-level thing to read someone town for. You know it is.

The reasoning is literally; jaack is town because scum wouldn't say "don't forget TOF might be godfather"
Your question was "why does jaack even say that as scum"
My initial post was neutral anyway - you weren't challenging any position and the answer to it bordered on rhetorical.
The answer is "why do scum do anything."
Or a shrug.

You literally put off posting content because you wanted my answer to that?
Yea, no. Please.
Oozes the fake.

And further, I was pointing it out specifically because you brought it up as an argument that I didn't understand. Turns out there was a reason for that -- you wanted to justify mislynching Jaack.

1) wasn't on that mislynch
2) i invented the jaack wagon
3) i invented the xy wagon

there's a reason they still went through without my help; SCUM FUCKING INVOLVEMENT

This does not make any sense to me. TOF would not have made sense as a mislynch at the time. He was perhaps the least-suspected player in the game. Hence why trying to get TOF lynched was a move that might have made it more likely for Jaack to get lynched, not less likely.

it's because you're scum and are purposely taking my good points and weirdly trying to understand them wrong

it's k

we aren't talking about mislynching TOF; we're talking about how you tried to enter into jaacks mind and instead of using a spoon to actually dig in you scrapped at it with sandpaper and collected a small sample of shavings

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You mean xyzzy's AtE? Because that was not towntelling. It was AtE.

one of the townest posts in the thread - you not recognizing that spoke a lot about how scum you were

Jaack was towntelling, and you literally brushed it off. Here, look at how you responded to my question:

we've been over this within this post already

i guess now i understand why all your posts have so much volume to them; you repeat the same shit over and over again, take posts out of context and add weirdly play-by-play commentary while stretching tinfoil scum motive to it; preview it about 100 times while editing, maybe with a coffee, possibly a donut, with some jams playing in the background, laughing maniacally (like all scum do)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tyler the Creator]

your argument for me not answering your bs scum questions is because why would i as scum want to halt momentum on a mislynch i would need to win the game

when it's clear what my stances have been wrt to lynch preference the last 3 day phases now

[Tyler the Creator]

and had no problem slamming the breaks on xy?

blatant cherry picking

[Tyler the Creator]

lol

[Tyler the Creator]

or we just scumhunt similarly?

[Tyler the Creator]

either that or w/e next level scum manipulation you created there that you think i'd be capable of

heh

[Tyler the Creator]

also tool, i wasn't trying to take anything away from how you play scum

it obviously works

it's just that post sticks out like a sore thumb because i can tell you rushed it and didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb

[Tyler the Creator]

This game is basically contradicting my expectations of how town usually gets out of RVS. I feel like it usually goes like this:

RVS votes -> player A says something mildly scummy -> people wagon player A, and in the process player B says something weird -> people wagon player B

By this time in the game I feel like there's usually been a legit wagon. Since there hasn't been one yet in this game, I feel like scum is either disjointed or timid.

The main thing was that I really expected at least a small wagon on Robert for his first post. As soon as I saw it I thought it looked very surface-level scummy. Exactly the sort of thing you can make a shallow case on. Good place to look for scum trying to go for something easy/look like they're scumhunting.

Then jaack was the only person to do anything about it. After that:

ira kinda joke-criticized jaack about it in #29, Tyler townread jaack in #54 for it, Keyser voted jaack for it in #55 and Dunn votes and makes a case on jaack in #91.

It just kinda makes sense to me that jaack could be scum and his partners didn't support the robert wagon but are also not really dealing with the fallout on jaack either. He's a good place to start, I think.

VOTE: jaack

In other news, re-reading gave me a townlean on Tyler. Not entirely for the way he's playing, though he is doing work (a surface-level towny-looking thing), but more the way that people started townreading him almost in kind of snowball fashion. It's striking me as the kind of thing where town say he looks town, impressionable town agree and scum hop onto the townreading wagon in an effort to have genuine-looking reads.

like this is the post where i initially thought you were town early

you townread me, which is my kryptonite
you came up with this weird snowball townread thing that felt out of the box but upon reflection i do pay A LOT more attention to everyone's individual reads as scum - so it's pretty fake-able and how sticky you stayed on this for your reasoning and saying that my posts were "surface level" did make me twitch

mostly because i know exactly how town i radiate at any given moment; like this post im at about a 6 - last page i was about an 8 and when i quoted 3 dead town calling you scum i was high and feeling myself that post was probs a 10

make sense?

so when you say that my stuff was surface level - when it wasn't - that's actually pretty scummy and should've listened to my gut here about that little nudge and not say "well the rest of the post looks okay"

when it wasn't

the post is clearly inflated by three lines about how "unexpected" the game has been so far

then some IIoA about jaack

then the line about jaack doesn't even really make sense and is actually just straight up moonlogic
like that vote is pretty terrible now that im looking at it

but no i focus on shit about

me

and just townread it because being a human meatsack with emotions

[Tyler the Creator]

Why was xyzzy's post super-town?

YOU DON'T KNOW YOU WON'T KNOW TOOL

that scum role PM suppresses your empathy

[Tyler the Creator]

im gonna try an experiment brb

[Tyler the Creator]

Okay so I looked through tool's iso just for any average sized post and what I'm gonna do is show that post unedited vs. an abridged version while trying to leave absolutely none of his points out and see what the difference actually is. Here we go.

Spoiler: Tool's post

Well I wanted to hear from Tyler, but it looks like people want the day to be over and I'm not sure when I'll have time to post again, so here we go.

The reason I was shocked at Tyler's case is because it made me think I was completely wrong about this game. Here's why:

1. His case clearly relies on reaches in logic.
2. Some of the wording indicates that he was sure of me not being scum. Not suspecting, or paranoid, as he had been before, but somehow had suddenly become

sure

of it.
3. I saw no reason for townTyler to suddenly drop his suspicions of xyzzy -- which have existed since the beginning of the game -- or of Jaack, and suddenly start scumreading me.
4. If Tyler is scum, he is putting himself in an excellent position to win the game by lynching me.

Before Tyler's case, town was basically deciding between Jaack and xyzzy for today's lynch. ScumTyler would look at that and see this scenario playing out:

Town lynches xyzzy today --> Jaack tomorrow --> then he has to convince town to lynch me in 3p LyLo

Therefore, laying down a case on me early would be a crucial step for scumTyler winning the game. It would put him in the exact position he would need to be in, which would be lynching xyzzy and then Jaack (in any order) and then getting the last remaining town to vote me so he could hammer for the win.

And if he could get me lynched today, it would be even better for him. Because who would really think to lynch Tyler over Jaack or xyzzy if I was out of the picture?

In short, if Tyler is scum then I think I was the biggest obstacle between him and victory because I was the least-suspected of the remaining town.

That was all what I thought at first upon seeing Tyler's case.

One of the first things that started bugging me about the scumTyler scenario was why he would wait until halfway through the day phase to pull out his case on me. Why not just come into today swinging at me? That would make more sense to me.

What

really

messes it up is that xyzzy is actually pushing me now as well. And that looks awfully good for scumXyzzy as well, because if xyzzy is the last scum then they would at this point be clawing for life. Xyzzy's suspicion of me essentially rides the coattails of Tyler's case, and in fact the post where they voted me looks pretty bad.

Look at what they said: That lynching either me or Jaack would provide info. Not that one or either of us looks like scum, but that lynching us would provide info. It just looks to me like self-consciousness of the need to justify their vote to town -- not to mention that it leaves a back door open for the next most likely lynch option not named xyzzy.

Another problem with a scenario where Tyler is scum is that it contradicts my theory about scum approaching HA's claim in the same way. That's part of why I was so taken aback when Tyler first posted his case and I started really thinking he might be the last scum. Now that xyzzy's jumped back in, well, I'm not sure. I'm still pretty wary of Tyler, but perhaps he really did just happen to go back in my ISO and psych himself into thinking I was scum.

Since we are approaching deadline...

VOTE: xyzzy

Spoiler: Post with same points made but abridged slightly

Wanted to hear from Tyler. Guess he didn't show up.
Tyler's case is bad.
Tyler's logic is reachy/scummy/yadayada (no examples given)
This is definitely not OMGUS. I have reasons for changing this read and everything!
Tyler is scum because he knows that he needs to lynch me to win the game. (yes this is actually one of his main points lol)
But I'm unsure because Xy is scumreading me too.
So not sure which one of them is scum.
Even though I typed out this entire wall and sounded very sure Tyler was scum just a minute ago.
But I'll end this off with a waffle on Tyler because apparently my hypothesis that I haven't mentioned in a RL week is what I've been revolving all my scumhunting this game around even though it actually really isn't.
And yes it does make sense that the scumteam would be all drones and do the same thing while ha gets shafted by town. Like, absolutely no way that they would have either been on different wagons, one bussing, one not etc. that just wouldn't make any sense (actually this is another example of terrible analysis that shows that same trend of tool having no paranoia ill probably look more into that tomorrow; the stuff he talked about surrounding ha's claim was pretty scummy now that im typing this)

[Tyler the Creator]

okay that didn't give me the results i'd hopped for and i did miss a few points but you get the idea

[Tyler the Creator]

also, scummy af turnaround like why did he make a mountain out of that if my points were so

reachy

[Tyler the Creator]

One BIG thing that you should keep in mind bins is how both creature, keyser and ha all softly scumread tool. Or at least didn't townread him.

We both thought he looked town the first half of the game all the way up until like... day 4ish? (at least for me)

Why do you think that is? Did any of them ever really try and lynch tool? Nah.

Distancing.

[Tyler the Creator]

also, scummy af turnaround like why did he make a mountain out of that if my points were so

reachy

to clarify this ill give an example

person 1: you're scum!
town: no you're scum!

person 1 again: you're scum!
scum: Four score and seven years ago ... (insert paragraphs upon paragraphs of scumminess and bs here) ... So, in conclusion. It has come to my attention, that this person who has called me scum, for reasons that make NO SENSE to anyone with a brain obviously (lol) is actually probably scum. Not jokin'!

[Tyler the Creator]

yes tool because i know the first thing on my mind as scum is to
1. ignore the shit out of my buddies
2. and make sure that i townread them for silly and confusing reasons

scum all lurked out - having more interaction with them is weirder than not much

[Tyler the Creator]

I wasn't necessarily referring to myself. Just an in general kind of thing that people do when they're scum. lol

[Tyler the Creator]

tool, i only have one vote, i argued against the dunn lynch

why is it impossible for you to interpret perfectly reasonable lines of inquiry just as they are and not add on this make believe masked robber breaking into the back window spin to it?

without me the dunn lynch probably goes through; you're first quote is me - arguing against jake about why lynching dunn is bad

you say bad idea for town - like you're arguing against me, but you have the same exact stance on it as i do?
fucking hell man could you pretend to care about other people's stances on things that you have a stake enough in to argue about?

[Tyler the Creator]

if i was trying to "appease" jake then that quote would have contained a vote on dunn, is what im saying essentially

[Tyler the Creator]

if you want town posts from me just click iso there's a bunch of them

[Tyler the Creator]

do you want me to quote multiple posts of me completely derailing the dunn lynch?

[Tyler the Creator]

i demolished all hope

there comes a point where you realize you're not gonna change someone's mind and i showed jake that i understood where he was coming from