Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Dunnstral]

zakk's lack of contribution feels deliberate. it's bad.

I disagree with this reasoning and it's not why the rest of us are voting zakk either
Rather I'd argue that that's not the case entirely and zakk went away for the weekend. I did think they should have contributed more on friday but we now know that this is not the case.

Dunnstral is town. Tyler is town. Keyser is probably town. so is toolenduso. Zachstralkita and Jake have been better today than they were yesterday. Jaack is town. Bins might be scum. the vote on zakk is a good one. Robert is probably town.

VOTE: zakk

Hmm, but your reasoning for thinking zakk was mafia got proven wrong though, yet you seem like you're fine with where your vote is. Rather, you didn't react to that part at all.

since no one else ever bothered to try to come up with an actual answer as to why: Dunnstral, is your claim directly related to your assertion in 831 that you are 100% sure that Robert is town?

By the way people have been scumreading you for asking questions you shouldn't care about the answers to

[Dunnstral]

JUST GONNA GO AHEAD AND PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE

More like "blindly defend anyone dunnstral dares talk about"

[Dunnstral]

I specifically said other people had been doing that by the way so attacking me doesn't make it untrue

[Dunnstral]

I wouldn't mind lynching zakk right now to be honest

But I know that's not going to happen because we're all pansies and have to wait for "zakk to provide content "

Side note bins hasn't provided anything useful all day long so far but I will agree that some of xyzzy's stuff is starting to look sketchy too

I think jaack is still stuck on his percentages and robert being mafia from day 1

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't attacking you moreso DEFENDING FREE SPEECH

are you serious?

He thinks I'm mafia (?) and so will hard defend anyone I talk about

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't attacking you moreso DEFENDING FREE SPEECH

are you serious?

He thinks I'm mafia (?) and so will hard defend anyone I talk about

I was in no way really defending xyzzy, fine with the lynch

I wouldn't mind lynching zakk right now to be honest

But I know that's not going to happen because we're all pansies and have to wait for "zakk to provide content "

Are you going to mind when he townflips?

If he town flips I'd have a pretty good idea of how the game would turn out so no I wouldn't mind that actually

I'm also a bit more fine with getting xyzzy now but it's not who I dominantly want to get and I don't want the wagon to move

[Dunnstral]

Suddenly everyone is fine with lynching xyzzy

Even though floof/zakk has literally done nothing to warrant attention being taken away from themselves

[Dunnstral]

got hobbes role PM. i'm town.

dunn, what's your current opinion of jaack?

Are you asking me this because of my post 91? I think he's probably town now and wouldn't want to go for him
Though I can obviously relate to your vote at that point

Suddenly everyone is fine with lynching xyzzy

Even though floof/zakk has literally done nothing to warrant attention being taken away from themselves

loooool. scumplaining much?

I will say it's interesting that you stopped at post 91, as I think there are interesting things around that point of the game

[Dunnstral]

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Mafia can't be this dumb, this guys town

What?

I'm town-aligned, but how are my posts dumb?

You're just sheeping onto bandwagons and you saying "same" and voting Keyser was comical

if dunn and keyser are scum together, this exchange makes a LOT of sense

plus, so does the iraonavp kill.

I'm not seeing a lot of correlation between me and keyser being mafia there but I guess I can see what you're saying kinda
For iraonavp there's actually no correlation at all and he died because he was claimed bodyguard and his cc was lynched

[Dunnstral]

my reads (towniest at top):

hobbez

floof

Zakk (heyoooo)
Tyler the Creator
Keyser Söze
Zachstralkita
Jake from State Farm
toolenduso
Robert2424
Bins
Dunnstral
xyzzy
Jaack

vote: jaack

idk if i'm interested in an xyzzy lynch atm even though it's the biggest that's not mine

But xyzzy is the second from the bottom? Why wouldn't you be interested in that?

Though I wouldn't be voting for a lynch at all if I had only read 4 pages

Also you have keyser at the top but then reading like 10 posts further and you're trying to pair him as my scum partner

[Dunnstral]

so dunn. are you town? catch me up on the game. what's important stuff that will take me a while to get to, that i would be better served knowing BEFORE i read the game?

Nothing that really sticks out at me; robert claims weak/macho towny around the time ira and h_a claim protective roles (ira cc's h_a) and so them both being real is believeable, I'll actually look around and see if I can find or remember anythign important in the later half

[Dunnstral]

: |

I'm quickly changing my mind.

I don't think Floof looked that scummy on the H_A wagon.

p-edit fuc man I'm tryna make a point ad why does someone always make if first

...weren't you going to talk about your reads or something

and me starting a counter-wagon on jaack (which was a d1 wagon, so clearly there was interest) will give information on jaack vs xyzzy

I think there's minimal interest in lynching jaack all-around, not to say everyone town-reads him but nobody has really called him out or anything so I'd be surprised if that gained any traction

[Dunnstral]

All I know is that scum is playing really well right now effort-wise! Good job, guys! I am quite impressed!

Trying to figure out if this is some kind of weird slip or just weirdly worded/thought

[Dunnstral]

Honestly I don't think anything "important" really happened since the claims before day 1 ends, and I think that was around post 400ish

Ira died because they were outted bodyguard, probably worth looking at stuff around that time but I wouldn't say skip ahead to it

robert's claimed role is that he's town that can't be protected from night kills

[Dunnstral]

was around post 400ish

jk it's like ~690

[Dunnstral]

but a lot of people are disagreeing so I get worried that I'm not seeing somthing cause my gut is telling me one thing, right?

No that's basically just Jake and Zach

It would help if you would list what you think as it gives us an idea of what you're thinking
Just because you think someone is town right now doesn't mean if you say they're town you won't be able to vote for them in day 3 if your opinion changes

ur so basic STOP i don't drop towntells when I'm scum

I haven't seen any town tells...................

[Dunnstral]

now i'm leaning towards not u and maybe even not xy

Looks like I pressed enter too early too, why not zakk anymore? you just said:

All I know is that scum is playing really well right now effort-wise! Good job, guys! I am quite impressed!

But from like 5 pages of analysis from zakk you change your mind

[Dunnstral]

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-20 10:00:00)

We have tons of time, actually more than I thought. Way more actually, just a reminder of the deadline

[Dunnstral]

anyway

floof iso is just pure unadulterated scum

approach with the knowledge that HA is complete and utter lynchbait

early tunnel on jaack is bad and piggybacked
jaack starts to town up floof says no and stays sticky on the read there

"HA needs to post more"

weird because we had more lurksacks than HA, like a good handful at that point

latter unvotes jaack when his vote was still on HA which gives me pause but feels more fake all around because of the added in "i have no idea what's going on"
fake because he had just posted on the last page and there wasn't much of a shift in the game state

486 "why are we unvoting HA" pings the fuck out of me because it's after he claimed doc
and on that page there were talks about a claim accompanied by the unvotes
feels a lot like feigning ignorance that HA claimed doc because of this and an attempt at snagging some towncred because
"lol obviously HA's buddies would know that he was about to fakeclaim cuz daytalk lol"

tl;dr - i think the out of the blueish progression floof had with his read on HA looks like bussing and nothing else in his iso read genuine at all

i wanna lynch it please

This is a good post

Also:

I thought this was particularly interesting:

vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

Finally, my reads so far

Spoiler: Bins

239You've been relatively quiet too this game.
38 States that being super townie is your scum game. Now we know to expect that if Bins is mafia, she won't be super townie in this game. And maybe even if a super townie posts accidentally jumbles in, it gives more cause to her being scum.
177I feel like mafia use excuses like this more often than town. So what you haven't played for a year. Isn't playing mafia like riding a bike? Saying you haven't played for awhile so refamiliarizing yourself is similar to mafia tactic of acting more like a newbie or taking advantage to being a newbie so scummy posts can get away by having players think, oh he's just a newbie doesn't know what he's doing.
On a whole, I'm pushing Bins onto my scum side of the spectrum for now

Spoiler: Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

Some other people had analysis that showed that they were thinking floof was at least a scumlean too

[Dunnstral]

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-20 10:00:00)

We have tons of time, actually more than I thought. Way more actually, just a reminder of the deadline

welp

bye

i'll be back in a couple days when jaack is lynched

yw for finding scum

But that's just from the start of the game...

The chances of jaack gettign wagoned on is real low here soooo

[Dunnstral]

I mean, I said already I thought there was at least one mafia in zakk/bins based on what I quoted at the bottom of the last page

What's rich

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think those quotes even show us much to be honest

[Dunnstral]

The arguments for you being scum have already been made a couple people posted general reads lists on people, I'll try to compile a list here

[Dunnstral]

Aye aye captain

Nah bins never really had any sort of read anyway

[Dunnstral]

K analysis.

It occurred to me that we've actually gained a pretty valuable tool for finding the third scum if we can find the second scum.

The fact scum have daytalk changes the dynamic of HA's doc claim. There's no way scum wouldn't have discussed HA's claim prior to him claiming, so the other scum on the team would have had some kind of plan. IMO, there were only two objectives scum could've had there: assuming HA would die and voting him immediately, or trying to use HA's claim to dismantle his wagon.

So if we get a scumflip on a player who bussed HA after he claimed doc, it would be logical to assume that the other scum player also bussed HA. And if we get a scumflip on a player who seemed like they were waiting to see how other people reacted, or who actively tried to dismantle the HA wagon, we would do well to look for another player that acted similarly.

Specifically, if Robert is scum, this suggests that the scum were trying to save HA with his doc claim, because why would Robert step in and claim macho townie if not to save HA? If that were the case, and we would only know for sure if we got a scumflip on Robert, then we would do well to hunt for the last scum within the pool of people who tried to argue that HA was town after the doc claim.

On the Robert claim

, I'm less inclined to lynch him than I was toward the end of D1. Part of this has to do with rereading the last part of #596. I finally understand what he was saying. We were thinking about game balance in different ways, I think. I was thinking about how a mod would try to have roles

interact with each other

, while Robert was talking about weighing

negatives against positives within the town

. While I think we disagree about how bad a macho townie is for town, I get the basic logic at least.

On top of that, I also realized that it's weird to see fakeclaiming, gambiting scum not only coming up with the super weird fakeclaim of macho townie, but then having that explanation (from #596) for why they think a macho townie would be in the game. The structure of what he's writing doesn't really fit in with the kind of mindset that a scum partner would have to have in order to think that fakeclaiming under those circumstances was a good idea.

Spoiler: The HA wagon

-Final lynch: Keyser, Floof, tool, Jake, Tyler, Jaack, Dunn
-Keyser: One of the first players to suspect HA, starting in #222. Votes HA in #297 after HA makes a case on Keyser. At this point, for them to be partners it would pretty much have to be a designed bus. That's possible, but I lean town on it just because I find it less likely than the explanation that they just aren't partners and because there wasn't really a reason to bus at that point -- neither was in any real danger of being lynched. Knowing that HA is scum actually makes it look like he was trying to take advantage of some of the early suspicion on Keyser (HA's #268 actually was him trying to put logic behind a post where Dunnstral said he suspected Keyser but didn't have any reasoning for it). Once HA claims, Keyser immediately doubts it, though it is worth pointing out that he didn't comment until after ira had counterclaimed. So if Keyser were scum, scum were definitely following the "scum expected HA to die" tactic.
-Floof: First mention of HA is a vote for him in #187, saying HA needed to post more. Later he doesn't answer my question about why he wanted HA to post more than any other player in the game. Points for Floof making one of the earlier non-RVS votes of HA in the game (first?), but the reasoning is weird enough it does make me wonder if it could be bussing. In #367, Floof says the original vote was just to prod activity out of HA, but now he's scumreading HA (at this point floof isn't voting anybody, and he doesn't explain the scumread on HA). Floof explains in #373 that he felt like HA was following wagons, and Floof votes HA. The timing of this is interesting because it's before HA's doc claim and floof said he was either going to vote ira or HA. Ira was the leading wagon (4 votes), but the HA wagon had just gained steam with two votes on HA on the same page (putting the HA wagon at 3 votes). So as a scumpartner, Floof went for a bus even when there was a viable alternative wagon in ira. Water down the townpoints on that for the fact that the HA wagon was the trend at the time and that floof's vote still only put HA at L-3 (not all that dangerous).

Edit from later: Floof actually basically did the same thing that jaack did in choosing HA over ira, but he did it after jaack and dunnstral on the same page. Actually a little suspicious.

Floof's #486 and #631 are asking why people are moving off of HA (this is after HA's doc claim), so if floof is a partner to HA then he's in the "scum expected HA to die" camp.
-Jake: As far as I can tell, Jake's first real interaction with HA comes in #277 and it's a theory debate (up til this point Jake's been doing a lot of that because of disagreements over readslists and such). In #298 he says HA has made some good points and criticizes a vote on him. This strikes me as pretty brazen for scum, especially given that Jake had no real need to do it, and so I lean town on it. Another defense of HA in #337. Jake is also the first to really push HA's inconsistencies, which he does in #410. In fact that's what pushed me to look at HA further. Again, no need for scumpartnerJake to do this, especially since he was already townreading HA, and it led to HA's lynch. So I don't see Jake as a scumpartner. That being said, just to do due diligence, Jake's reaction to HA's claim was to unvote immediately, and then revote HA immediately once ira counterclaimed, then unvote and say that there have been games where both BGs and docs existed. So if Jake is alive in LyLo or something (which I don't expect him to be if he's town) then I think we could put him in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Tyler: First interaction with HA is #301 and it's nothing very telling. It's kind of interesting, actually, that Tyler basically ignores HA until HA's claim. Tyler actually did not post for the two days leading up to the claim, and then he posted about 20 posts after HA claimed doc. He doesn't really weigh in until after ira's counterclaim, and it's in kinda vague language ("doc and bodyguard both existing in a mini is kinda meh"). In #505 he sets up floof as a possible lynch of HA flips scum. He does some theorizing on the competing claims (#523), but doesn't really take a stance until #540 when he says he's fine with an HA lynch. He hops onto the Robert wagon in #628 after initially pushing against it, and clarifies later that he would still support an HA lynch. A lot of this just kinda raises my hackles as scum avoidance of the subject and trying subtly not to lynch HA. The fact that he disappeared for two days and then came back right as HA claimed would lend support to the "wait-and-see" scumbuddy approach. If Tyler is scum, he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Jaack: His very first post is a vote on HA in #5, and while this is very probably RVS, it does follow a Dunn vote. Maybe not super telling on its own but good to note I think. He puts HA as second-most-likely scum in a readslist in #357 and most of his reasons make sense. He actually votes HA over ira in the next post, and he explains it later by saying that his vote on ira wasn't doing anything. I lean non-partner on this. Very interesting reaction to HA's doc claim in #480, he is indeed the first person to point out that doc is a standard scumclaim and at the same time concedes that it'd be better to leave it be just in case HA is actually the doc. He later gives intent to hammer HA after ira's counterclaim, and then once Robert claims he pushes a kind of pragmatist's approach that favors lynching Robert before HA. I lean town on jaack based on the earlier interactions with HA (probably the biggest piece being him voting HA over ira), but if he is scum then he was in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.
-Dunnt: Don't really consider Dunn's vote of HA in #4 to be anything. In #129 he leaves HA off a readslist (one of 3 people he leaves off the list). He notes that HA isn't saying much in #162, but votes for Bins instead. Dunn defends HA against floof in #193. Dunn's response to HA in #285 is the kind of catty I don't really expect from scum partners (he calls HA dumb). He votes HA in #365, right after jaack but before floof. He unvotes HA immediately after the doc claim in #483, with the kicker that it "Looks like we're all believing him" -- very similar to jaack's reaction. He's back to HA after ira's counterclaim, and then in #519 suggests that maybe the daytalk is a way of compensating for town having two protective roles. He revotes HA in #553, unvotes HA after Robert's claim and says in #630 that all three could be town. He actually kinda wobbles back and forth on this a bit, saying he still thinks HA is scummy and ira is towny but maybe Robert is telling the truth and they're all town. He says he keeps thinking HA might be town, but then declares intent to hammer and does hammer HA (after zach declares intent to hammer, but earlier than dunn). Up until the HA claim, Dunn looked pretty much not like a partner. But the weirdness around the doc claim opens up the door again imo. Needless to say, if Dunn is a partner then he's in the "scum were trying to save HA" camp.

Spoiler: Robert's claim

-Robert's claim was in #563. After that, the people who voted him were: Jaack (#616) and Tyler (#628).
-So it wasn't really much of a wagon. But more people weighed in on it than voted.
-Jaack is the first player to say Robert is scum in #590.
-Bins poses the question in #591 of whether Robert, ira and HA could all be town. In #598, once Robert seemed to say the PM said "weak" but was describing a macho role, Bins reverses and says Robert might be scum.
-In retrospect, Tyler's #609 doesn't make sense. He said he can't remember the last time he saw scum misread their role PM...which, if Robert is scum, he's fakeclaiming. So it's not like he would be reading a role PM incorrectly...I'm not really sure what to make of this, honestly. Does it suggest scumTyler knowing that Robert is town and therefore not thinking all the way through the scenario of Robert being scum? Is it townTyler just half-baking a thought? I guess it might be weird to see scumTyler working this hard to lynch his partner, HA, instead of townRobert.

Edit from later: Tyler explained this; he was thinking of a fakeclaim.

-Wow, then Bins agrees with it in #612.
-#622 is intentional WIFOM from HA for sure.
-Tyler naked votes Robert in #628.
-Dunn casts doubt on Robert being scum in #629, floof does the same in #631, Zach says he doesn't think Robert is scum in #644.
-Xyzzy and ira come along townreading Robert in #652 and #653.
-Not really understanding Bins' #681. She speculates that Robert could be scum or town and then says "Robert's move, much like irao's, is crazy town."

Edit from later: Bins explained this too.

Conclusions:

-More suspicious of Tyler now.
-More suspicious of floof now.
-Jake is probably town.
-Keyser is probably town.
-Bins is maybe town.

Up next:

-Looking through HA's ISO for interactions.
-Examining the cognitive dissonance I have when considering the possibility of a Tyler-floof/zakk-HA scum team.

HA's interactions with...

Dunnstral:

-#268 is HA providing reasons to Dunn for why Keyser might be scum. It seems a little more coordinated than I would expect from two partners...possible, but I lean town.
-The second half of the post is....a little harder to tell. HA is clearly buddying up to Dunn. My first thought rereading this is that HA was trying to drop associatives with Dunn so that if he flipped we would come back and think townDunn was HA's partner. And then it veered immediately into WIFOM territory from there when I realized it could also be HA trying to look too buddy-buddy with his partner for people to ever think they were scumpartners. I'd tend to believe the former (that HA was buddying up to townDunn) over the latter, just based on the different levels of insidiousness and foresight necessarily involved in each scenario.

Robert:

-Says Robert's been inactive and he doesn't have a read on him in #281, but leaves open a door to possibly scumread Robert later. This one could go either way in terms of looking partner-y.
-Suddenly has Robert as a top-two scumread in #392.
-Ah right, and then Jake points out the weirdness about HA's flipflop on Robert, which is that before #392, HA was talking about Robert like he was town and using that to justify another read (on jaack I believe).
-And then in #434 HA talks about mixing up Robert and Zach re: which person he'd asked if they were scum. He says he mixed up games, but bottom line is HA invented reasons to scumread Robert. That suggests HA is not partners with Robert imo. The whole arc looks a lot more like HA being opportunistic scum than it looks like bussing scum.

Bins:

-HA's take in #281 on Bins' #38 is pretty weird. It's like he's saying that regardless of whether Bins looks towny or scummy, she will be scum. Lean not partner on this.

Zachstralkita:

-#265 seems pretty ballsy for a partner-on-partner interaction. I think I'd actually have to give kudos to HA on this one if he's partners with Zach because this just does not seem like a partnery interaction at all.
-HA's reasoning for keeping his vote on Zach in #281 feels forced.
-Yeah he just clearly is trying to come up with reasons to keep his vote on Zach. Feels like HA was treating Zach as a safe haven for his suspicions. Def does not look like partners to me.

Keyser:

-Again, #268 doesn't seem like HA talking about a scum partner to me. A player brings up that they can't justify a scumread on HA's partner and HA volunteers reasoning for why his partner is scum?
-In #394 HA puts Keyser in his top three for scum for a dumb reason. Reminds me a little of how it looked like he was reaching for reasons to scumread Zach actually.

xyzzy:

-Only three mentions of xyzzy in HA's ISO, and two of them are when he's using xyzzy to explain his townread on Dunn.
-The third is in his readslist in #281, and it's an underdeveloped townread on xyzzy.
-This is maybe partner material.

floof:

-And an underdeveloped scumread on floof in that same readslist (#281).
-Literally no other comments on floof throughout the game.
-Also maybe partner material.

Tyler:

-Only real mention of Tyler is in the #281 readslist, and it's a townread...despite the fact that he first points out that he doesn't understand why tyler posted his first post. The townread is for having similar thoughts about the game.
-Also maybe partner material.

Jaack:

-By far the weirdest thing here is HA at first treating Jaack like he's town by looking for scum going after Jaack (#281), then later reversing (#329) and talking about how scum would be more likely to go after Robert's vote (like Jaack did). That's basically the bulk of his interactions with Jaack actually. It seems almost like HA slipped that he wasn't Jaack's partner by first treating Jaack like he was town. Part of that theory has to do with how HA responds to Jake in #422, by repeating what he said in #329 even though it didn't make sense. It's like he was trying to cover up a mistake he'd made, the mistake being that he had forgotten to leave room for the possibility that Jaack was scum.

Jake:

-Gives a somewhat confusing reason for townreading Jake in #281. Other than that, not really a whole lot of any thoughts on Jake. Jake's interactions with HA are far more significant imo.

Looking better: Dunn, Robert, Bins, Zach, Keyser, Jaack

Neutral: Jake

Looking worse: xyzzy, floof/zakk, tyler

I'm not feeling well and am kinda tired so this post is shorter than I'd like it to be.

to clarify, I still think Zachstralkita has been acting scummy; I just think that 1)I was mostly looking at his actions on their own, not really focusing on who might be scum with him, which isn't that useful, especially following a scum lynch, and 2)I was probably a little too insistent that not productively contributing to the town is inherently bad, and I need to reread and think about what all stood out to me throughout day 1.

I didn't ever vote Jake yesterday because I felt like my vote being on Zachstralkita was more useful/productive. later, Jake started to do things that felt more town to me. (see my post 447)

re: whether Robert's claim is scummy: Jake is using the logic that no sensible scum would ever make that fake claim to prevent their partner from being lynched, because that would just result in them also being lynched; the argument that something is so scummy that no scum would ever do it feels really flawed and I don't like it at all.

731 (Dunnstral) - I don't understand how this isn't obvious to anyone else; h_a, who was scum, tried arguing that Floof and Bins aren't scum together, and then almost immediately after suggested that they're both scummy, without any other info. I think h_a was trying to avoid saying anything too substantial about anyone, while still trying to make at least 1 scum partner look better.

Jake: continuing the whole "Dunnstral was lying" thing (757) is pointless. it seems like Dunnstral stopped acknowledging this argument because it's a bad one, and because you refused to acknowledge that anyone else's opinion on the matter had merit. just because you refuse to have a meaningful discussion on the topic where you acknowledge the arguments made by other people doesn't make your argument valid. pretty much the opposite in fact!

zakk's lack of contribution feels deliberate. it's bad.

Keyser spent a lot of time criticizing ira but didn't vote ira, and then as soon as h_a started repeating the same arguments ira had made, voted h_a; this feels really weird and inconsistent, but now that we know those players' respective roles, it's almost certainly not evidence that he's scum.

Dunnstral is town. Tyler is town. Keyser is probably town. so is toolenduso. Zachstralkita and Jake have been better today than they were yesterday. Jaack is town. Bins might be scum. the vote on zakk is a good one. Robert is probably town.

VOTE: zakk

Note: I actually had a problem with the reasoning on this one and talked about it a short while ago

That's obviously not everything on the topic, just some additional opinions

Notable keyser had some mild suspicion just from looking at h_a's iso but he had a bunch of people listed as suspicious (and I think he has more stuff on the way)

[Dunnstral]

Also notable that both h_a and floof were in that other game, I didn't get that vibe at all. Hint: mafia have daytalk

[Dunnstral]

lemme read up before we lynch anything please

[Dunnstral]

Why are you suddenly starting to get a jaack wagon going

[Dunnstral]

Eh, I actually like Zach's stuff right before the hammer.

p-edit - I'M NOT DONE CHILL.

I'd say right now scum is in zakk > xyzzx, and maybe Jaack (if not xy). I'd say I lean strongly towards zakk and xy. I still haven't looked at Jaack before the lynch.

??? So what did you find

[Dunnstral]

K analysis.

[... other stuff]

that was a great read. that's the kind of stuff i would like to read more of.
i didn't know HA claimed doc or Robert claimed macho townie before

But I said that a few posts back

[Dunnstral]

---this is who we're left with---

xyzzy
Zakk
Jaack

ooooo let's lynch these three! dead serious
i'm perfectly fine with sacrificing myself for my top 2 scumreads dying

lol

Then kindly die

Why are people suddenly scum reading me?

I won't let the bad man hurt you

can you stop white knighting me, i can white knight myself perfectly well thannnnnk you

Zachstral is like the dark knight in this scenario but he hasn't even read the rest of the thread

[Dunnstral]

Robert hasn't posted in 3 days

[Dunnstral]

i feel like people are making posts but we aren't actually getting anywhere

That's because everyone is waffling around and Zach's mini-game is to shut down all discussion on who mafia could be

[Dunnstral]

Welcome back jake

[Dunnstral]

i feel like people are making posts but we aren't actually getting anywhere

That's because everyone is waffling around and Zach's mini-game is to shut down all discussion on who mafia could be

you sound really, really scummy here, with the whole "discussion on who mafia could be" bit

i think you're scum

Please explain it to me like I'm 5 years old

[Dunnstral]

...Why? That doesn't explain anything

[Dunnstral]

okay, so, xyzzy's vote is survivalistic scum, but tyler and dunnstral you don't have that excuse, so why are you voting me? and why aren't you voting xyzzy?

Haven't we already been over this? I think I quoted stuff earlier and everything

I MUST EVALUATE MY APPROACH ONCE MORE:

UNVOTE: DUNNSTRAL


VOTE: XYZZY

Does that mean you think I look more like town or xyzzy looks more like mafia

some context would be nice

[Dunnstral]

Well yeah but why did you switch to Xyzzy of all people

[Dunnstral]

okay, so, xyzzy's vote is survivalistic scum, but tyler and dunnstral you don't have that excuse, so why are you voting me? and why aren't you voting xyzzy?

"scumplaining"

[Dunnstral]

Woah chill out you crazy dog didn't ask for more scumplaining

[Dunnstral]

okay, so, xyzzy's vote is survivalistic scum, but tyler and dunnstral you don't have that excuse, so why are you voting me? and why aren't you voting xyzzy?

Haven't we already been over this? I think I quoted stuff earlier and everything

[Dunnstral]

Why is nothing happening

Robert hasn't posted in 4 days

Jakes hasn't posted in 3 days

Keyser hasn't posted in 2 1/2 days

Where are the prods

[Dunnstral]

What do you think of the possibility that zakk and xyzzy aren't both mafia at this point? (Meaning one is town)

[Dunnstral]

It was actually more directed at Tyler but your input is valuable as well

I am also not particularly confident that this town, with all of its fractures, has managed to push two wagons on scum D2 and none on anyone else.

No worries, Jake, Zach, and Zakk would/have all voted me so there's that other wagon

[Dunnstral]

What out of the blue vote

My rvs vote in post 4? Or me hammering ha after saying ira was town all of day 1

[Dunnstral]

Got prodded.

See Dunn isn't lynchhed. Not sure why

Dunn where did the out of the blue vote for ha come from day one? You never explained it

So who do you think is mafia aside from me

[Dunnstral]

@bins

that

again, it's been brought up again and again, he did have a read on me and keyser he just gave them earlier

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Probably not

It was quite answered in a joking manner, but I think a mafia would have tried to give a more in depth explanation to his process in attempts to conceal himself.

And I believe robert wasn't posting around this time which explains the lack of read on them

as for jake the answer is basically in what he quoted and I'll point it out

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: heuristically_alone

For the record I still have a scum read on bins

Also H_A did actually say he thought I was town before he gave his reads list which is why I didn't question my absence

Also iffy on floof now

We're bandwagoning heuristically_alone that's whats happening

And then why do you go on to question someone who says they want to vote him?

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

Let's not forget early on you attacked Jaack for his vote on ha (among other things) and when someone else votes him for not posting you come to his defense.

Once ira claimed there was a tone in your post that seemed like you were open to exploring other options (throwing dirt on bins and even that all 3 were town)

Like I said back then, I was iffy on floof. When he randomly votes h_a (which is exactly what you're accusing me of but missing floof) I'm not seeing the reasoning/thought process behind it, so I ask him simply why he's made the vote in an attempt to get an idea of floof's alignment

I was "throwing dirt" at bins all of day 1 so it's not like that came out of nowhere

Also note that I really was saying ira was town all of day 1, no where did I even mention that they could possibly be mafia (and in fact I rejected the idea of getting robert saying I thought h_a was more likely to be individually mafia)

As for the reasoning of the H_A vote at that point in time; although I was "throwing dirt" at bins my scum read wasn't that strong and I was also scum reading h_a at the time; I switched my vote because someone at the time said h_a needed pressure (not sure who said it but it might have been tyler) and I agreed with that, so I voted h_a. I then kept my vote on h_a up until the point they claimed doctor

[Dunnstral]

For the record here was floof's reply to my question:

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

He was dodging the game and his only post was a vote on my town read. I think he was just following bandwagons at the time which is scummy. I am pretty confident he will flip scum at this point to be honest.

VOTE: H_A

And I believe the "following bandwagons" part was actually derailed as being untrue

[Dunnstral]

You do realize you were the one who accused HA of that right?

No I'm not. Floof is

[Dunnstral]

But I never accused H_a of hopping onto a wagon

And that's the one I'm talking about

And that's the one who floof was talking about

And the one that flipped mafia

[Dunnstral]

? I'm confused now

He was going for an easy lynch/joining a bandwagon. Zach is very probably town in my mind, h_a flipped mafia.

Ok I found the confusion:

He was dodging the game and his only post was a vote on my town read. I think he was just following bandwagons at the time which is scummy. I am pretty confident he will flip scum at this point to be honest.

How could he be following bandwagons when he didn't really join a bandwagon?

The consensus at the time was Jake was scum/null I thought

See this is actually productive. Floof slips up here, and doesn't even realize why he's voting h_a

[Dunnstral]

What there is evidence of is you chainsaw defending HA instead.

Are you serious

I will admit I was quite a bit confused with the whole accusing someone of being on a wagon thing but that's mainly because I read floof's post there first and thought the wagon was on jake

I genuinely think that's a slip that we all missed from floof and it actually solidifies my wanting to get zakk here over any other possible lynch today

[Dunnstral]

Tyler, I'm waiting for input from Keyser and Tool and xy before I place my vote.

Why?

[Dunnstral]

Got prodded.

See Dunn isn't lynchhed. Not sure why

join me

let's do it

Implying you're doing anything but hopping between whoever you can get lynched besides yourself

Even though you said you'd rather lynch xyzzy and jaack over me

[Dunnstral]

Nobody ever said Jake was scum

He's just comically wrong

[Dunnstral]

No it's not

There's no way I'd vote for either jaack or jake and I will argue against lynching either of those

[Dunnstral]

Because he's not mafia basically
Or at least I've got no reason to vote him over like 4 other players at this point and think going after him is a real bad idea

[Dunnstral]

Wait a second am I missing something

[Dunnstral]

Is bins blatantly role fishing between people who weren't ever going to get lynched today

[Dunnstral]

LOL here comes zach ready to defend

[Dunnstral]

LOL here comes zach ready to defend

literally you only attack my townreads why dont u back off pal

I've been giving bins the benefit of the doubt for a while now. I'm not sure why they think outting who they think is pr is a good idea. Also I've claimed vanilla town already, but I don't mind if you think I'm whatever ; though the problem I have is how you can think that's a good idea.

Like ok you've explained your town reads, by outting who you think is PR. Amount of people voting you: 0

???

[Dunnstral]

Robert how far in have you read? I'm interested in hearing your reads after you've read the game

[Dunnstral]

tomorrow is my birthday don't ruin it by saying mean things about me and wondering where i went

No worries I won't wonder where you went

[quote="In post 1203, xyzzy"anime jazz hands[/quote]

[Dunnstral]

I don't fee like I've slung any mud at all cause everything I've said is basically the truth.

[Dunnstral]

i'm getting very bored of this game and i haven't even finished reading it.

dunn is like 95.8% noise (i.e. worse than animorpherv1)

Nice calculations Einstein, 95.8% huh, care to show your work on that one?

Alright let me make an executive decision as the town leader here: vote zakk. Still feeling much better about this than xyzzy

Yes this game has stagnated;

Bins you seem to be having trouble figuring out where to place your vote. Let me

help

you on this one: vote zakk

Tool I see you've switched to zakk

Keyser I've got no idea where you're at with your thoughts

Robert.... where'd you go.... again

Jaack not sure how you feel about this either

[Dunnstral]

zakk is like my number 4 lynch choice after robert, xyzzy, and bins, but xyzzy is the only one of those that seems to have a chance at happening right now.

Eh whatever. Better to have a vote on a wagon than not
VOTE: zakk
That's L-1

Dude you really need to remove Robert from your list

You have no right to talk while voting me

[Dunnstral]

though I agree

[Dunnstral]

Alright let me make an executive decision as the town leader here: vote zakk. Still feeling much better about this than xyzzy

You are not the town leader.

[Dunnstral]

You honestly should hammer dude at this point. Do you think a replacement wants to fucking play that slot?

You're the one not voting him you mongrel

[Dunnstral]

It's okay tomorrow I'll personally take command as the Second Lieutenant of the Lynch Dunn brigade and we'll get some REAL results.

OK here are my thoughts on this line in particular, I thought it stood out so I went back and checked and found this:

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

It's not a vote and I don't think it looks like one...

Also I'm already voting Zakk

Amazing, fantastic

[Dunnstral]

@Jake. Don't think he wants to remove me. He's quite comterble tunneling me. And who you say could be the town leader. It certainly can't be me so don't try it.

I'm not really understanding what you're saying here; who's tunneling you? Are you confusing jake and jaack

slightly spooked how quickly xy's wagon vanished

Jaack was the spooky one there

[Dunnstral]

Jaack was the spooky one there

y

You know why...

Tool had good reasoning behind his switch and was genuine and did it before everyone else said anything

Jaack was like "I guess I'll vote the fourth person on my scum list "

Though it could also be explained by their lack of persuasiveness if you will to get people to follow him

[Dunnstral]

Might actually want to wait for keyser to get back before we hammer btw, he said he'd post something tonight

[Dunnstral]

actually

I would be interested in hearing who has intent to hammer though

[Dunnstral]

He was posting before he had his role pm, I don't think it's alignment indicative in this case

[Dunnstral]

sheeping is like following my vote

[Dunnstral]

Can someone unvote

I'm not comfortable with quick hammer

??? what

ok, then why ask me to just follow your vote then?

Because I'm town and I'm right

probably at least, I don't remember when it happened, I don't think it was important...

[Dunnstral]

Bins who is mafia

[Dunnstral]

Gonna guess you mean xyzzy there

I like how I'm being ignored thoguh I've quoted and pointed out a bunch of valid reasons for zakk being mafia

[Dunnstral]

This is probably why I said to sheep what I'm saying: zach's probably town

[Dunnstral]

Can you link me to it? All I remember seeing was you calling him scum for posts he made when he didn't even have a role pm which again really confirms you aren't town

I never called him scum for posts he made when he didn't have a role pm. You made that part up in your mind along with whatever I was "implying"

Also why are you still trying to discuss things about zakk? it's over, we're getting ready to lynch him bud

I honestly don't find Zach Helpful at all.

Yeah neither do I but I'm pretty sure he's town here

[Dunnstral]

why do you feel he's town then Dunn?

Just the way he's playing: I can pretty much read zach like an open book and if he dared to flip mafia I'd have noticed by now

[Dunnstral]

It ain't over til he's hammered. We still have time so why the rush? Yet more evidence you aren't town and when zakk flips town and you kill me tonight I swear to god people better lynch your ass

It's cute that you think I'd kill you if I were mafia

[Dunnstral]

why do you feel he's town then Dunn?

Just the way he's playing: I can pretty much read zach like an open book and if he dared to flip mafia I'd have noticed by now

Sorry this might not be the answer you're looking for but it really is just his tone and the way he pushes and how he acts this game

[Dunnstral]

Because I know him and I've played with him before

[Dunnstral]

Are you scumreading zakk still?

[Dunnstral]

Tyler I don't understand why you're voting xyzzy now

[Dunnstral]

Bins are you ever going to place a vote this game

[Dunnstral]

now look at this flip onto xyzzy

[Dunnstral]

I figured that was coming. At least there is more content now. Though looks opportunistic then anything.

Lol it's funny cause I hate every vote

Yours was the worst one there

[Dunnstral]

Bins, can you explain why you think xyzzy is a better lynch than zakk?

Without the whole replace out part. Unless that's your whole reasoning...

[Dunnstral]

Tyler I'm still not quite sure what you were doing

You say you're "putting pressure" on xyzzy but I was ready for zakk to be lynched!

[Dunnstral]

I figured that was coming. At least there is more content now. Though looks opportunistic then anything.

Lol it's funny cause I hate every vote

Yours was the worst one there

That's because 1) I haven't been voting and 2) you mentioned that and 3) you were waiting for it
It's less bad when you really think about why you're bugged by it
I don't think I'm that opportunistic, just very waffly about everyone

So who's votes did you hate? jaack and tyler? why?

[Dunnstral]

Wait did I hammer

pretty sure that's a no

[Dunnstral]

You would have been hammer if xyzzy had 4 more votes on them so close

[Dunnstral]

Robert meant l-1 on zakk

xyzzy has 3 people voting him

[Dunnstral]

*them

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I could point to a post and say this is pretty scummy guys

[Dunnstral]

Can you run me down on how that poe worked out for you
Like what was it

[Dunnstral]

actually

---town---

Zachstralkita
toolenduso
Dunnstral

---town but less constant paranoia---

Jake from State Farm
Tyler the Creator

---town but constant paranoia---

Robert2424 (because of the claim)
Keyser Söze (because of the bussing)

---this is who we're left with---

xyzzy
Zakk
Jaack

Ok so you think Zakk is town. Now you've placed your vote onto xyzzy right at the same time jaack did and you haven't really been considering him

[Dunnstral]

Jaack is like so obvscum in his choices
His moves
His opportunism
I don't feel scum is that careless to just hop on everything... And I mean everything

Paranthesis is why I'm paranoid

So why are you voting xyzzy with him?

[Dunnstral]

jaack if you think bins is possible scum why are you content to sit around and vote between zakk adn xyzyy?

[Dunnstral]

Jaack at this point you have to admit that a scum team of bins and xyzzy doesn't makemuch sense, no?

I know you scum read robert but I can assure you he'd flip town. So with that in mind, what do you think of things?

[Dunnstral]

dunn why are you trying to derail this i thought you were down for the set on xy?

I said I was much happier lynching zakk

[Dunnstral]

How am I getting accused of derailing when we've been trying to get zakk lynched for a week and when he gets to l-1 3 people vote on someone else

[Dunnstral]

Jaack is like so obvscum in his choices
His moves
His opportunism
I don't feel scum is that careless to just hop on everything... And I mean everything

What are you seeing that is opportunistic in what I've done?

Uh, the whole Robert thing at the end of D1.
I feel you nitpick very basic things sometimes and regard them as scummy on their own. I can provide explains but I'm on mobile and lazy.

Dunn, it's because my scum read on Jaack isn't that big. That's why I didn't vote him when zakk wanted me to. I think you're misinterpreting my "Jaack is obvscum" post. I'm saying the fact there's so much of his moves that bug me yet he seems very self-aware makes him bug me less.

So your only real scum read you'd want lynched is xyzzy?

[Dunnstral]

I know it seems like I'm grilling you but I'm actually pretty sure you're town now Bins

a gradual read I've been working up towards over the past few days

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that xyzzy-bins is a particularly unlikely scumteam

But Bins waffled around and tried to get the zakk lynch stopped, and then voted for xyzzy

Or do you think Bins is hardcore bussing

[Dunnstral]

How am I getting accused of derailing when we've been trying to get zakk lynched for a week and when he gets to l-1 3 people vote on someone else

maybe not derailing persay but like for someone who seemed to be okay with the zakk/xy day focus you're getting pretty meticulous about people's compromises with regards to their reads based on the composition of things surround those reads, with maybe an odd bins thrown in for good measure and im just trying to figure out what you're accomplishing from it

You think I should've just hopped on the xyzzy wagon? I've been sorting out motivations and reactions and whatnot

For the record I'm not necessarily opposed to xyzzy getting lynched, more like I'm opposed to everyone quick leaving zakk's wagon

[Dunnstral]

Why do you make it sound so bad I've explained this already.

I just said I thought you were town

Zakk is still my most comfortable lynch

This is the most content out of bins for awhile now.

No offense but look who's talking

[Dunnstral]

I too have been thinking I may have been right earlier when I pointed out that one thing about keyser I don't even remember anymore but tyler thought it was town

You think I should've just hopped on the xyzzy wagon? I've been sorting out motivations and reactions and whatnot

For the record I'm not necessarily opposed to xyzzy getting lynched, more like I'm opposed to everyone quick leaving zakk's wagon

no?

and i don't really see much cause for alarm with people leaving zakk's wagon because there's no sweat wasted and it's wasted pressure

you old decrepit "use the time we have" lot want to go this route we need to be doing something productive

But I am doing something productive, even if it's not joining the new wagon

[Dunnstral]

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

When Robert ends up being scum, you will see I'm right.

Lucky for you, now my top two suspects are Zach and Robert.

@Zach, are you mafia?

this is spam post at best? Really dude? At least I made it on your list though.

What an entrance to your final return to the game.

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

You more than anyone has been fighting me back on my original read on you. It for that reason that you appear more scummy than when I had initially assessed you. Anyhow, it's not my job to tell you your most contributing posts.

Whoever people want to vote out first:

Zach, Robert, or Keyser

, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

Here's Keyser

Spoiler:

>Your message contains too many smilies. The maximum number of smilies allowed is 12.
Had to cut down on some

Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

"super serious"...



I want to see "super serious"...

VOTE: Zachstralkita
Your first post and post 122 have been the 2 worst posts of the

entire game

. And in general you got more talk than game.

"Of the entire game"?

Sounds like you've caught up - thoughts? I don't like the fact you've dropped in with a vote but not gone through/expressed your thoughts of the "entire game" first.

@Zach, are you mafia?

@iraonavp - do you class this as "asking questions without answers"?

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

Let me take this apart, piece-by-piece:

"every post he has made has been completely useless"

- please quote my "useless" posts.

"he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia"

- that is the game, you find something suspicious, you vote. I believe my vote was the first vote, it was not me jumping on a bandwagon. if you want me to break down the development of my read of Jaaack I will.

"Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own."

- this highlights your lack of perception. In those posts I was challenging people's positions and stating my own read/perspective on players. There was no

'me-sheeping-everyone-ba-ba-ba' posting.

"doing nothing to help the game"

- this is another unsupported generic scum-read reason.

"205 unvotes Jack, but that's that."

- that is information. Do you agree/oppose the reasons why I voted/unvoted Jaaack?

This feels like a manufactured sheep-dump off iraonavp's unsupported logic.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp

'fight back a little defending his reasons'

?

Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it

"so strange"

for players to take a firm stance on a

serious

vote during early D1 play?
2)

"suspect of mafia"

/

"possible scum"

- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.

Is Jaack town?

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

In fact

sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow

. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting.

Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

I am the doc this game.

A roleclaim at L-2 (without an intent to hammer)? - the timing of this roleclaim is bad/newbish (a more seasoned town/scum player should know when to roleclaim and when not to roleclaim.

...now plays the "newbie" card 9 minutes later

I a newbie in the sense of playing online in forum, and so far in every game I've participated in I have been one of the first to get lynched.

Why are we all unvoting H_A?

...because he just hard-claimed Town Doctor at L-2

I'm a bodyguard, so heuristically_alone is almost surely lying.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

iraonavp's Town Bodyguard roleclaim changes the dynamic of heuristically_alone's Town Doctor roleclaim. Two protective roles in a mini-normal set-up? The WIFOM is telling me:

I am seeing less scum-motivation in iraonavp's protective role counter-claim than in heuristically_alone's early roleclaim.

I.e scum-heuristically_alone trying to fish out Town-Doctor vs scum-iraonavp counter-claiming heuristically_alone to force his lynch. Both would be short-term gambits, but iraonavp was not in a position where he

had to

roleclaim - the focus/wagon was on heuristically_alone.

Moreover, would Zulfy put two protective roles which would encourage/force a counter-claim needlessly? Doubt it. I think we caught scum like this in another game [two (modified) cop roles claimed - one was scum, one was town - we reasoned that the mod wouldn't f**k us over with putting two cop roles in the set-up which could be counter-claimed.]

It feels like he gives

too much

attention to h_a - as if they were bussing h_a the whole time

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

i mean yea distancing is one thing but your first actual content in the game going out of your way to call a buddy's every post "useless" and build a semi-case on them and carry a dialogue with some one else about them for a bit seems unnecessary

the quick townread of dunn also makes me think not-buddies but dunn was a uni-townread at that point so if dunn was scum then he's a-ok to read him that way anyway so it's more meh

[Dunnstral]

not this playerlist though

chill as fuck for the most part

Are you kidding look at all these monkeys voting me

Jus ta bit earlier you said xyzzy looked more town but now you seem to be pushing a case; are you still wanting to lynch xyzzy? And what do you think of zakk's slot

[Dunnstral]

zachstralk is town; im almost at the point where id bet teh game on it and ive felt pretty good about him for a while

I'd be willing to bet the game that Zach, Bins, Jake, Robert are all town

Feeling pretty good about you being town too

Pretty sure There's two mafia in Zakk/xyzzy/Keyser/Jaack probably in that order

[Dunnstral]

I have a lot of town reads but I'm confident in all of them

[Dunnstral]

Tool's up there in my feeling pretty good about being town category with tyler too

[Dunnstral]

LOL here comes zach ready to defend

literally you only attack my townreads why dont u back off pal

Mind sharing those townreads

Mostly so I can make fun of you after the game ends

[Dunnstral]

Bins did you not see the thing I quoted about keyser

[Dunnstral]

I spend 2 hours reading 57 pages and miss one. I'm sure it's happened before. I wasn't told who I replaced, just come on in lol

? But you saw zakk replace out before that at l-1, and the slot recruitment specified the slot was at l-1

It should have clicked together

[Dunnstral]

What I'm saying is: I'm pretty sure the vote was faked and you're mafia as you'd have to have realized you were zakk.

[Dunnstral]

And also that you weren't at hammer

[Dunnstral]

I would contest that some of the ones still going on about my mis vote may be scum. Why else would they redirect and beat the dead horse?

Can we lynch this slot already

[Dunnstral]

He's not going to flip town

[Dunnstral]

I can understand that it sucks that you replaced into that slot but come on

I'm town. Wouldn't they think any decent mafia scum would have informed me not to vote Zakk. Also, they would need to change votes to my name, as I am not Zakk and votes would, in turn, reset.

They don't reset though, but I can understand that you're new and wouldn't realize this

For someone who doesn't seem to have realized what's going on and is a newbie you sure seem to have picked up on the dynamics of the scum having day chat real quick

[Dunnstral]

OK desmond is back, we can all "apply pressure" to them now and someone can "accidentally hammer" if they'd like

actually keyser needs a replacement huh, guess this is going to be a LONG DAY

Also you guys are so tunneled on me you're completely ignoring that desmond is obvious mafia

[Dunnstral]

I like how desmond has absolutely nothing to say on the rest of the thread and just comes in swinging at me like his predecessor (who he deemed scummy to the point of voting him. Hmm. There's a gap in logic there, since he ALSO said he suspects Jake. Hmm. And he's ALSO thrown shade at Zach I believe? HMM)

[Dunnstral]

Still no reasoning for me being mafia. Every person you've scumread has voted me (including zakk) and you follow them and vote me. The leap in logic there is astonishing

[Dunnstral]

As opposed to your good reasons for voting yourself if you were town?

[Dunnstral]

You voted yourself so clearly you realize you look like mafia. Why are you then turning around and saying I'm mafia for pushing on you and that you're obvious town? There's a huge leap of logic in your actions

[Dunnstral]

It was a mistake. There's no logical reason to do so if I were scum.

You ignored the fact that you yourself thought zakk was scum too soooo???

this is the weordest amished i have ever seen

?

[Dunnstral]

Bins are you not seeing this leap in logic from him too by voting me

[Dunnstral]

ahahah this is what i have been waiting for

?

[Dunnstral]

Nope it's just you

[Dunnstral]

Oh and Desmond the newbie maybe

[Dunnstral]

Nah actually looking back I don't think he has

[Dunnstral]

Nah he's not even going to pretend to scum hunt

[Dunnstral]

again another thing about that post that makes it look like a two layered gambit

another reason i cry when i try to read that slot now

??? How about lynching the slot like I've been saying because everyone in it has been scummy

Instead of you know, this "information lynch" of xyzzy

[Dunnstral]

By the way it's safe to ignore Zachstral from this point forward

[Dunnstral]

i disagree w this lynch v much

??? bins?

[Dunnstral]

Why does me pushing for the lynch confirm anything when you yourself tried to hammer zakk.

[Dunnstral]

If anything you should be agreeing with me

[Dunnstral]

Ok? You said you didn't like the posts of that guy; guess what, neither did I. And I'm voting his slot.

[Dunnstral]

Ok? You said you didn't like the posts of that guy; guess what, neither did I. And I'm voting his slot.

this is a terrible argument

No it's not?

He read the thread, decided zakk was scum

I read the thread, decided zakk was scum

But then I'm mafia for pushing on zakk once he realizes that's who he replaced into

[Dunnstral]

I've been saying it's a huge leap of logic. He's attacking me because I'm pushing on him when he himself would have agreed with the push. He's trying to discredit me

Also tinfoil hat theory time, mafia have daytalk and so everyone in that slot is going to push on me because of something that was said, maybe to make me look associated or something (far out there but it's weird)

[Dunnstral]

Every time this slot goes to l-1 you guys all vote xyzzy just to try to get someone else lynched

[Dunnstral]

xyzzy got anything else to add?

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah I'm a triple voter!!! 3 more votes for Dunn

Still wouldn't be able to lynch me

[Dunnstral]

Man why was Jake so quick to lynch a vanilla town am I right

[Dunnstral]

Hey there creature

[Dunnstral]

I actually have something I want to say too but I'm waiting for more people to chime in first

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel that scum under reasonable suspicion would push so hard on a weak slot's lynch.

By the way I was never "under reasonable suspicion" I had the 3 stooges on me

ahahaha they all conveniently died tho so I guess it's just stoogy mcquicklynch left

c'mon where is everyone

[Dunnstral]

Bins shut up

[Dunnstral]

Bins where you at

I've decided to do this a different way after all

[Dunnstral]

Alright so basically I'm cop

Bins you can talk now

[Dunnstral]

Bartender can I get an almond milk?

[Dunnstral]

Well it's probably obvious but day 1 Robert innocent.

I'll keep my second result a secret for now but I thought there was something more interesting to talk about anyway

[Dunnstral]

...Huh?

JAke I don't really understand if this is a reaction test or what, you were my inno report for night 2

[Dunnstral]

Don't laugh I'm serious. I kind of felt bad about investigating Jake too because I feel like I should've went for xyzzy or creature but I had to after seeing him do a 180 yesterday, and it's a good thing too because I'd have been voting him right now for what he's pulling (and the fact zach died)

[Dunnstral]

Well you've got to be lying because I'm cop and godfather is blacklisted in normal games anyway, which is why I'm not voting you right now

[Dunnstral]

You were until you hammered town out of nowhere when you had no interest in doing that before. Then I had to check you. Can you stop I KNOW you're town so

[Dunnstral]

Anyways the interesting thing I was talking about earlier is that zach was killed when I was obvious cop all of day 1. I mean, why zach? I wasn't even role blocked or anything

here's what I've got:

Bins definitely knew I was cop (and couldn't keep her mouth shut )
xyzzy did some weird questioning of me and it seems like they

may

have realized which also led to me checking jake - I'm not 100% certain they noticed though but if they did it might mean they're potentially town

[Dunnstral]

seriously I basically claimed cop day 2 and lived, I'm actually rather suspicious of the keyser/creature slot because of that

[Dunnstral]

Jake I don't understand why you're going full rambo but I'm not going to let you get lynched, obviously, just stop with the fakeclaim already?

[Dunnstral]

also the zach kill narrows it down a bit for me

like that wasn't all that great a kill but i kinda see what they were going for

Can you explain how it narrows it down?

[Dunnstral]

Are you serious

Why would I fake claim cop with two innos as mafia

I'm real cop, jake is doing some weird gambit thing right now and doesn't actually expect me to get lynched

jaack I ask you again - are you really scum reading me?

[Dunnstral]

I checked robert because his claim was weird, I did think he was likely town but the fact that h_a flipped mafia meant tha trobert turned into the best possible check for me - didn't suspect xyzzy or keyser at all yet at that point in time

Also the whole percentages thing I kind of agreed it was possible for robert to have been scum there

[Dunnstral]

I literally said robert was 100% innocent around day 2 start

[Dunnstral]

How in the world was I supposed to know I was getting cc'd?

I wanted to talk about what was more important and let you guys give reads before I gave my result - and what you're saying still doesn't quite make sense, I waited for a counter claim then

inno'd

them? like what

I literally said robert was 100% innocent around day 2 start

And then claimed you were a VT

Can you stop already? That was like the highest level of wifom and you know it

[Dunnstral]

Are you serious

Why would I fake claim cop with two innos as mafia

I'm real cop, jake is doing some weird gambit thing right now and doesn't actually expect me to get lynched

jaack I ask you again - are you really scum reading me?

You didn't fake claim cop with two innos. You fake claimed cop with one inno and didn't claim the other until you had been cc'd

Why would a godfather quick suicide claim cop in the first place?

Seriously you were hard town reading me before what changed?

[Dunnstral]

By the way I even said I wouldn't claim VT without a reason.

[Dunnstral]

That was an obvious joke as I led the lynch, you're really going to grasp at everything

Tyler I said it changed after h_a flipped, I was sort of feeling all 3 could be town beforehand

[Dunnstral]

Is bins blatantly role fishing between people who weren't ever going to get lynched today

[Dunnstral]

That was an obvious joke as I led the lynch, you're really going to grasp at everything

What? How on earth was that a joke?

Because I basically spearheaded the lynch all of day 1 and jake was hard scum reading me

[Dunnstral]

By the way I still did actually wany to talk about

Anyways the interesting thing I was talking about earlier is that zach was killed when I was obvious cop all of day 1. I mean, why zach? I wasn't even role blocked or anything

here's what I've got:

Bins definitely knew I was cop (and couldn't keep her mouth shut )
xyzzy did some weird questioning of me and it seems like they

may

have realized which also led to me checking jake - I'm not 100% certain they noticed though but if they did it might mean they're potentially town

And

also the zach kill narrows it down a bit for me


BINS HI
like that wasn't all that great a kill but i kinda see what they were going for

Can you explain how it narrows it down?

[Dunnstral]

My Bins hi got lost in a quote

[Dunnstral]

I'm feeling real good about townreading bins right now btw

[Dunnstral]

LOL

[Dunnstral]

Ok I retract. And I'll explain what I was doing before you psychopaths jumped on me

[Dunnstral]

Basically, yes I noticed that jake was town cop day 1. I hinted that I knew/threw in some softs to potentially distract mafia who may have noticed (bins noticed for sure so it was there)
You can go back and hunt my iso for that stuff if you want, it's there and I even say something to bins once I realize she's noticed.

After that, Zach's kill was weird to me. Day start I intentionally tried to provoke Jake to see if he'd open up by voting me. I had already realized that I would be the likely cop check, especially since he was saying things like "you haven't seen me deathtunnel" day 1. He didn't vote me and even said something about reevaluating the game.

At that point I claimed cop. My main purpose here was to get the reports out (knowing myself to be inno and cleared, I'd have cleared robert which I softed day 1, and later on jake for day 2.) I'd then have been killed the next day, and jake would have had another report to work with
Everything went according to plan. Except jake cc'd me

even though he has an inno report on me

???

So I want you guys to look at this and look for the evidence:

I knew Jake was cop day 2. There's evidence of this. Why is he alive?
I knew Jake was cop, so why did I withhold my second report instead of outing it?
Also the fact that yes, if I was the GF and knew Jake was checking me, why would I suicide myself by claiming cop?

[Dunnstral]

Also jake is so tunneled on me that he'd rather believe I'm godfather than that he's been wrong all game

[Dunnstral]

What would that make bins?

[Dunnstral]

I'm serious though. Look at what I posted and look at my iso, It's not really possible for me to be mafia here

Also jake is so tunneled on me that he'd rather believe I'm godfather than that he's been wrong all game

Town doesn't claim cop to force the real cop to claim.

bye Felicia

You were basically outted already. I was covering for you all of day 2 but neither of us died

[Dunnstral]

@tyler ok I'll do that

[Dunnstral]

I can guarantee, 100%, that Robert is town. That is all I have to say on the matter.

This is the moment I realized jake was cop, having just had the thought occur to me and I had looked at his iso

Also, I've solved this game.

Let's vote for zakk please. This is almost guaranteed to be mafia.

zzz

That's a nice story you've got there we can discuss it day 3 when I'm even on the table

You should come sheep zakk, you agree that they're likely mafia yes?

And I assure you, I'm not trying to take credit from anything

I knew he'd be checking me and at the time I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't claiming as cop

I'm vanilla town by the way

Which is why I claimed. This also had the doubled effect of making me a maf target alongside jake

Yet somehow you 100% know Robert is town?

Yes

Yeah why don't you explain why you tried to cast doubt on Robert and now all of a sudden out of the blue he's 100% town.

No

Not just for me, please do it for everyone alive

No

Thank you

You're very welcome

Me blatantly refusing to explain what I'm doing

You're mistaken. You think I was trying to cast doubt on Robert. In truth, maybe I was. He seemed suspicious at the time.

However, I've changed my mind. I did criticize you but I had good reasoning to at the time, from my point of view

Can I ask,

besides me

, who do you think the mafia could be?

My point of view when I was on robert was I didn't realize jake was cop yet. It hit me when jake kind of chainsaw defended robert by going after me

Read your sig cuz it looks like you're having LOADS of fun

I am. Would have more fun if people would help me lynch scum but nobody seems to want to

Might be a bit awkward to backtrack day 3

I still think it would have been. It would have been obvious that jake was cop since he wouldn't scum read me at all out of nowhere overnight. Also a reason for me to claim after seeing the bare minimum I needed to know I was the cop inno.

@Jake

My read on you is purely because of how stubborn you're being. It is getting to be a little too much, though. I don't agree with your read on Dunn and I think you shouldn't be taking this stance with zakk. He shouldn't of been posting if he didn't have his role PM.

Robert is town because I'm still of the belief scum wouldn't fuck up a fake-claim.

I have another reason but I really can't say it. Plus, I'm not confirmed on it.

Bins your gut matches mine

Woah red alert

I wouldn't claim VT without a reason though

Well I wasn't lying

Man why was Jake so quick to lynch a vanilla town am I right

I don't feel that scum under reasonable suspicion would push so hard on a weak slot's lynch.

By the way I was never "under reasonable suspicion" I had the 3 stooges on me

ahahaha they all conveniently died tho so I guess it's just stoogy mcquicklynch left

c'mon where is everyone

Like I said, I was intentionally baiting jake in order to be certain that there was an inno report on me

[Dunnstral]

If you are town I'm reporting you and definitely black listing you. Game throwing is serious business and claiming cop to force cop to claim is imo game throwing. I'll escalate this shit all the way to mith if I have to.

You're the one who messed up though. You counter claimed your inno report.

[Dunnstral]

Not sure why I need to explain all this. It's not possible for me to be mafia as I am the inno report.

[Dunnstral]

Zach kill also makes more sense for dunnscum. Yeah, I'm pretty sure about this now.

How so? Nothing Zach said made any sense at all. I'd have killed bins if I wanted jake alive for some strange reason. But I wouldn't just killed jake as I'd have no clue at all that there was a voyeur (which is kind of ridiculous there's so many prs)

[Dunnstral]

Jaack I'm not liking your posts right now

[Dunnstral]

Same what? About jaack?

I think the part where I tell bins my gut matches hers is the single best piece of evidence in my wall of quotes

[Dunnstral]

How was I supposed to know that? I hadn't even joined the site yet.

[Dunnstral]

the first thing i do if im godfather, have a good idea of who the cop is, pretty much know that they're checking me, well, it wouldn't be to CLAIM COP

it'd probably be something like

jump up and down for about five minutes

then coast to endgame on an undeserved win

something like that

Uh yeah that's what I'm saying, what did you think of my long wall of quotes? I think that should pretty much prove it. But jaack and jake seem to have completely ignored it

What's the point of kamikaze claiming cop if I know that the cop has an inno result on me, as mafia?

I mean I guess it's possible but it's way more likely as town wouldn't you agree? I could just sit back and kill jake the next day and everyone would realize that I was inno'd (and then I could kill robert and use that as my excuse for why I'm not dead)


It's still even possible that I drew the mafia roleblock somehow. In which case jaack jumping on me asking for my reads then instantly becoming suspicious looks REALLY BAD (as he'd KNOW I'm not the real cop)

actually that's a really big possibility and can't be ignored.

VOTE: Jaack

[Dunnstral]

NEVER FAKECLAIM COP AS TOWN

? But I explained how it made perfect sense. And it did.

Bins read my long wall of quotes please

Also I'm not getting lynched anyway, pretty confident on that.

[Dunnstral]

jake scumread Dunn cause he though he was faking cop?
Dunn never scum read Jake even tho he knew Jake was cop?

Man Dunn if you're town you know there's a possibility people are gonna wanna lynch BOTH OF YOU
SO WHAT HAPPENS IF YOURE BOTH TOWN

I wouldn't let jake be lynched. I didn't think he'd even cc me since I should be confirmed clear from his point of view

Why would I scum read jake if I knew he was cop? And even if I was wrong and he wasn't cop I'd still be townreading him pretty strongly (and robert too but not as much)

[Dunnstral]

"Baiting a cop claim" is never a smart fucking move with your own claim
Why didn't you just
Like
Ask for a massclaim

I was gonna do that

What

Isn't that also getting cop to claim anyway

????

I wasn't baiting a cop claim. I was intending to claim cop and inno his n1 report and him to mirror his real report

[Dunnstral]

I honestly believe Dunn after all this holy fuck I'm just so mad at his play rn
I HAVE LOST TWO GAMES BECAUSE OF THIS BEFORE
TWO GAMES BECAUSE OF TOWN THINKING HEY LETS TAKE THE GAME INTO OUR OWN HANDS AND CLAIM COP NOTHING CAN GO WRONG

pedit - sorry I'm trying to explain why I agree with Tyler

You should be mad with Jake for quick ccing me without thinking.

Look at jaack. Do you agree that it's possible that he roleblocked me and that's why he jumped on me so fast?

Jake CCing you is completely reasonable and should of been fucking expected lol he was scum reading you

But I was his inno cop check? Again, how am I supposed to know that GF wasn't blacklisted this game in the first place, if that change happened before I signed up, but then not in this game

[Dunnstral]

2. Where are you getting the rb stuff from? Are you telling us all y'all have a roleblocker? Thanks!

Yeah I meant to say results you know what I meant

Also don't act like mafia is all goons when town gets a bodyguard, a macho town (probably doesn't really count), a cop, and a voyeur

[Dunnstral]

i just wish his N1 check lined up more

What do you mean by this?

I only said I checked robert and all because that was jake's report and I was copying their report instead of making stuff up