Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[Elias_the_thief]

/confirminate me, cap'n.

[Elias_the_thief]

vote: ryan

obv scum.
(aka random vote)

[Elias_the_thief]

Vote:Elias_the_thief

Obviously he's a thief and scum all rolled in one

Lousy OMGUS.
Also, just think of me like robin hood.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ryan, I would say you're making something out of nothing. The "shamelessly obvious!" at the end should tell you that it was a joke.

[Elias_the_thief]

um, yeah. this bandwagon is moving WAY too fast for my liking.
As far as I see it, there is no proof of whether the PM was for replacement purposes or for the purpose of PMing a buddy. Personally, I'm inclined to think its the former, seeing as
1) He IS searching for a replacement in a game, and
2) Sending a pm to his buddy now would be daytalking, and I'm assuming we have no cheaters here. Obviously, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

That being said,

unvote

.
Also, Boo, PLEASE don't do that. He may be scum, he may not, but the fact that he sent a pm to someone that MAY have been intended for you is certainly not enough for me to think you're scum, and if the rest of the town thinks otherwise, then the quality of play in this town is kind of questionable. (aka, you should NOT get lynched based on that alone).

More later.

[Elias_the_thief]

are willing to sacrifice a townie in order to clear yourself?

Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never,

ever

vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do.
[/quote]
I disagree with this. A lot. There ARE valid reasons to be voting someone you think might be town (gambits, pressure to force posts, to provoke a reaction), and even reasons to lynch town sometimes (plain sight lurkers, purposeful anti town behavior from a proven town player). However, I will agree that what Boo said was scummy. Voting for someone to clear your name is most definately NOT a valid reason to vote for someone you might think it town. An

FoS

is in order.

[Elias_the_thief]

messed up tags...should read:

That is one of the scummiest lines I've read on this site. You are willing to sacrifice a townie in order to clear yourself?

Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never,

ever

vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do.

also, forgot an FoS for MC for the "listen guys" and consequent direction of what the town should think.

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never, ever vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do.

I disagree with this. A lot. There ARE valid reasons to be voting someone you think might be town (gambits, pressure to force posts, to provoke a reaction), and even reasons to lynch town sometimes (plain sight lurkers, purposeful anti town behavior from a proven town player).

Elias I think you misunderstand his meaning here.

I think when he said "unless you think they are scum" he meant something more like unless you have some reasonable doubt they are town. I could be wrong but that was my reading of it. However the real issue I think is this statement:

I'm just taking the statements as I see it. I still see fault with what you said, seeing as it restricts voting for people you have a neutral read on, a vital part of play. But the reason I am suspicious of him is that he was trying to lead the town into believing it, and a townie in my opinion would put it out there as his opinion, not tell the town what to do. But anyhow, mc is by no means by top suspect. He just as one scummy post. I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far. My one question to ryan: did you find a replacement for the game (no, im not interested in filling the position if you havent)?

My two top suspects are as follows:

Boggzie:

I don't know what scumtells you're believe in, but I don't understand how you can think someone is scum based on an unopened pm. Pushing this case based on that is fairly ridiculous. I also dont like this post:

The others will come to light, like they do in every game.

I dunno. It just sounds...off. Like he's trying to inflate a weak case by claiming to be a steller scumhunter. I always find people who claim to be great at finding scum to be suspicious, unless they have completed games to back it up (do you?).

Bookitty:

You're right, Boggzie. I did receive one well before this game. And I should have said I received no PMs from ryan regarding this game.

That said, I'm about to do something I never expected to do, which is place a vote on someone hoping that they are town. I see no way to clear my name otherwise.

unvote; vote ryan

That's just plain scummy. I as a player have nothing against lynching townies for the gain of the town, though I dont want to get into that debate right now. However, lynching another townie to clear your own name is in no way a good reason to lynch someone that you don't think is scum. First, you're assuming that you are more valuable to the town. Second, you're assuming that by doing this youre actually clearing your name, and I feel that youre doing quite the opposite. So yeah. Scummy post. Also, if Bookitty is scum, theres lots of motivation to lynch a townie and clear herself. Not to mention her inconsistency on whether or not she got a pm from ryan.

For now,

vote: Bookitty

[Elias_the_thief]

I as a player have nothing against lynching townies for the gain of the town, though I dont want to get into that debate right now. However, lynching another townie to clear your own name is in no way a good reason to lynch someone that you don't think is scum. First, you're assuming that you are more valuable to the town. Second, you're assuming that by doing this youre actually clearing your name, and I feel that youre doing quite the opposite. So yeah. Scummy post. Also, if Bookitty is scum, theres lots of motivation to lynch a townie and clear herself. Not to mention her inconsistency on whether or not she got a pm from ryan.

This logic still holds true, especially since Ryan was town. So I'll put my vote back where it was yesterday.

vote: Bookitty

, with an fos for Boogzie on the side based on yesterdays logic.

Boggzie:

I don't know what scumtells you're believe in, but I don't understand how you can think someone is scum based on an unopened pm. Pushing this case based on that is fairly ridiculous. I also dont like this post:

The others will come to light, like they do in every game.

I dunno. It just sounds...off. Like he's trying to inflate a weak case by claiming to be a steller scumhunter. I always find people who claim to be great at finding scum to be suspicious, unless they have completed games to back it up (do you?).

Also, combined with the fact that he never responded to my question or my logic in defense of Ryan,

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

And pushed for a mislynch on little evidence (in fact, no evidence. There was no proof of what that pm was about). So Boggzie is a close second to Bookitty on my LOS.
Though I really can't believe that Ryan would do this AGAIN. He's done it so many times now. *shakes head*.


Also, I second the request for Thadmiral to post.

[Elias_the_thief]

This is not the first time he's cracked under pressure and revealed his role pm, as I pointed out in my analysis of his play earlier on, and those pushing for his lynch seemed to have ignored it. I think it's safe to say that he was pissed off, but not hurt.

[Elias_the_thief]

hasdgfas seems pretty clean to me. He's the only one who consistently defended ryan even as early as Post 70. It would seem to me that scum would have had no interest in slowing down the ryan train wreck. This would be even more true if, as I suspect, that Boggzie is town as well.

Seems odd to me that you point out that Has was against it, yet dont say anything about myself. I was against the Ryan wagon just as much as he was...but you only give brownie points to Has? FOS: Has and opie connection.

[Elias_the_thief]

I focus more attention on Boo? How do you figure? I made three posts after I defended Ryan initially (at least by my quick count) and two of them were protesting mc's comment about never voting town, the other post both defending Ryan and attacking Boo. As far as I can see, I was equal in my defense of Ryan and my attack of Boo. Also, I'm pretty sure my initial defense was 86. I'm not sure what happened with your post, but some of those numbers are off.

Anyhow, this point is not too major at the moment. I don't really see any scumtells that tip me off to either one of you being scum individually, so I don't plan to start voting either of you based on just this. However, this IS something that I will note for later in the game. IGMEOY.

So yeah. My vote on Bookitty will stay for now.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok, thank you zakarum, I was actually hoping elias would show me where he did it, because he says that he was against it "just as much as

was" and I'm not sure that he was that strongly against it. One post defending ryan is not the same as defending him strongly.
And this:

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

if that is supposed to be a defense of ryan, then just about anything can be

First, you call that NOT a defense of Ryan? I clearly call both of the major tells on him crap, and say I dont think he is scum. Also, I made two posts defending him, not one. As far as I can tell, you didnt really make ANY posts defending him. You called into question the validity of the PM tell, but you made a post almost agreeing with the appeal to emotion tell. So how did I defend him less?

[Elias_the_thief]

elias, you said that you don't think he's scum for the "major tells" on him, but you also say

This isnt to say I think he's town

What I get from those combined is that you think he's scum, but not for the reasons mentioned so far. I didn't get a "defense" from it per say, just that he wasn't scum just because of the PM thing.

I say that I dont think he's scum, and that I dont think he was town. I was implying that he was still neutral in my book.

[Elias_the_thief]

I think Elias's reasoning is faulty, and a bit forced

Could you explain why? It seems to me that the main reason you' dont like my reasoning is that it is against you.

[Elias_the_thief]

I think Elias's reasoning is faulty, and a bit forced

Could you explain why? It seems to me that the main reason you' dont like my reasoning is that it is against you.

Yes, that's right, in part. I know my alignment, so if you think I'm scum, then your reasoning is faulty. It looks like tunnel vision, and at this point, it seems a little forced to me.

Alright. However, the fact that my reasoning is wrong (from your standpoint) doesnt mean that the reasoning itself is faulty.

[Elias_the_thief]

Zakarum: Do you still agree with the points I made today, or not? And if so, why have you made no serious mention of the possibility of Boo being scum today? If not, what was it that changed you mind?

[Elias_the_thief]

Well.... does this mean Bookitty is off the hook or could she just have been trying to cover for herself by outing ryan.

This post seems kind of off, in light of what opie brought up.

[Elias_the_thief]

I as a player have nothing against lynching townies for the gain of the town, though I dont want to get into that debate right now. However, lynching another townie to clear your own name is in no way a good reason to lynch someone that you don't think is scum. First, you're assuming that you are more valuable to the town. Second, you're assuming that by doing this youre actually clearing your name, and I feel that youre doing quite the opposite. So yeah. Scummy post. Also, if Bookitty is scum, theres lots of motivation to lynch a townie and clear herself. Not to mention her inconsistency on whether or not she got a pm from ryan.

This logic still holds true, especially since Ryan was town. So I'll put my vote back where it was yesterday.

vote: Bookitty

, with an fos for Boogzie on the side based on yesterdays logic.

Boggzie:

I don't know what scumtells you're believe in, but I don't understand how you can think someone is scum based on an unopened pm. Pushing this case based on that is fairly ridiculous. I also dont like this post:

The others will come to light, like they do in every game.

I dunno. It just sounds...off. Like he's trying to inflate a weak case by claiming to be a steller scumhunter. I always find people who claim to be great at finding scum to be suspicious, unless they have completed games to back it up (do you?).

Also, combined with the fact that he never responded to my question or my logic in defense of Ryan,

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

And pushed for a mislynch on little evidence (in fact, no evidence. There was no proof of what that pm was about). So Boggzie is a close second to Bookitty on my LOS.
Though I really can't believe that Ryan would do this AGAIN. He's done it so many times now. *shakes head*.

I'm here, I stand by this post. I'll try to post what I think of some others players later tonight, but for now my vote stays.

[Elias_the_thief]

It's starting to get aggravating that no one sees the sense in a Bookitty lynch...I think her scumminess is pretty obvious. I'm starting to think a Boggzie lynch may be just as good however. Honestly, whats with his defeatist attitude. "I'd be willing to take the lynch"? You had 1 vote. It's ridiculous to be talking about "taking a lynch" at that point.

[Elias_the_thief]

The next obvious question then, is, why is Elias so anxious to get Bookitty lynched? He's almost begging us to do it. Do I think he's scum, then? Well, I don't know yet. I can't find enough evidence for a FOS. Maybe the fact that he's getting anxious, but, there aren't that many votes on her. IGMEOY for now.

I definately wouldn't go as far as to say that I'm begging to get a Bookitty lynch, or even that I'm anxious for one. I've expressed suspicion on more then just Bookitty, but I focus most of my attention on Boo, because I feel that she has given off the strongest tells, and is most likely to be scum. Also, her lynch would tell a lot about Zaks unconsistency on her wagon. In terms of who I find scummy besides Boo, boggzie is second for his essentially evidenceless lynch hunger on Ryan, and I'm also looking at Zakarum for his inconsistency about the Boo wagon, and also the Opie-Has connection that I touched on earlier.

What really caught my attention while looking back was mcpaltp's role in the ryanhunt. First of all, it took him a mere 48 minutes and 3 posts after the revelation of the pm to launch a vote on ryan. Then, he does this:

If I was scum, I'd bus him.


Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryan

And immediately after:

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

And after ryan's death:

If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.

Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).

Then:

I quoted what I felt was the

spirit

of the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point you

were

attempting to set up a chain lynch.

The spirit?

I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.

Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,

I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.

OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).

I don't feel like I have enough for a vote on you yet, mcpaltp, but definitely a big

FOS

Most of that stuff seems like wierd play to me rather then scummy play. Like, what advantage does scum have in being hypersensitive in offending people? The main point I see in there is the quick move to vote Ryan on little evidence. Now that I think about it, I'd probably rank MC higher for his jump on Boggsies case then I would rank Boggzie for presenting it.

I'm not really that suspicious of Admiral either. He was trying to get (or at least I believe he was) the gist of the posts, but got it wrong. I guess its a weak tell, but all of the people I've posted above rank higher then Admiral for me.

[Elias_the_thief]

I guess, but I still dont think it's too strong a tell. Combined with his quick jump on the Ryan wagon, he's climbed up a few spots on my LoS. I'll still keep my vote where it is however.

[Elias_the_thief]

Sorry for my absense. Post tonight.

[Elias_the_thief]

Damn, Zakarum being replaced would be bad. Basically it forces us to abandon most of our arguments on him, or carry them through without a chance to be defended against.

As for MC, I still feel his case is weak, though I would I would probably rate him my third highest suspect, worthy of a deadline vote, maybe. For me, Boo and Boggzie still top the list. Since Boggzie isnt here to defend himself, I'm happy to leave my vote on Boo.

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry for my absense. extended thoughts should be up tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Wow, a whole lot of stuff since I've been gone. Alright, thoughts on Adel's replacement: First let me say, I wasnt particularly fond of Zak's play, as his main strategy was to follow people around, thus staying out of the spotlight and being just another person advocating this standpoint or another. Or at least that's how I interpret it. As for Adel's graphs: Adel does this in every game that she replaces in, I think in other games as well. As to whether she uses this algorithm is a mystery to me. Frankly, I find the use irrelevant, but the question of whether or not she usually votes based mainly on it is a question worth answering. However, she tells us that all of her game's with it are ongoing and thus tell us nothing. My gut tells me that she does not. Thus, so far, I've got a scummy reading off of Adel. This is not to say that Adel doesnt make good points. It does support adel being scum, as is my opinion. However, her outlook is inherantly flawed as it does not look at context.

So to summarize, I'm not really sure on Adel. As I said, my gut is leaning towards scum, and I was suspicious of Zakarum. Either way, I certainly won't be voting her till I see some content from those who have not commented.

[Elias_the_thief]

Frankly Adel, if youre town, youre bad at it. Someone who has looked into the game in as much depth as you have should realize that pissing the town off when you're under close threat of lynch is really likely to lead to your lynch actually occuring. Things like "good luck being successful at mafia". Youre not helping your scenario there. Anyways, I doubt that any scum player would actually breadcrumb scum. I just dont understand it. Also, I dont get the "jabberwocky" connection to "New jersey devil". I must be missing something obvious here.

[Elias_the_thief]

Well I think adel is the best thing that has happened in the game so far.

Her analysis, and interpretation of the results, is simply not a scumtell. The fact is she does the same thing as scum or town. It's interesting to see a lot of people not knowing how to deal with what she has brought forth, responding with omgus. These people seem almost frightened at something that is new and different, and, in my opinion, are reacting out of fear.

What is your basis for saying that Adel runs this algorithm every game and then votes based entirely off of it, besides what she has told you?

[Elias_the_thief]

I dropped the hammer on Adel, because all of her (I guess) posts seemed like noise, distraction. Then, the self-vote I truly thought was a way of getting one of you to remove your vote from a mafia member.

ok.

Adel also never answered any questions, s/he only tossed around more noise and seemed to muddy the game.

why didnt you pressure her for more info?

[Elias_the_thief]

Which I already explained

. see post 416

You didnt already explain that you had pressured her multiple times. You said that she hadnt been answering questions. You said nothing about multiple attempts to get said info. That being said, if what you say is true, the hammer is more understandable. I still feel there was more to be gained yesterday, but whatever. More tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

Hi guys. I kind of forgot about this game...I'll try to post extensively after thanksgiving.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok guys, I havent posted in a while. Sorry. To outline my position:

Bookitty:

Earlier I was highly suspicious of Bookitty, but nothing in the last few pages has really caught my eye. As the days wear on, things that are highly suspicious on day 1 dont look nearly so bad in context with the rest of the game. Her original intention to vote someone she thought was town to clear herself, and later her random assertion that my logic was faulty, will be of note later in the game. But for now, Bookitty has fallen off my top two.

Boggzie:

Boggzie remains high up there, still based mainly on the ridiculous case he pushed day one. Not only did he push this bad lynch, he completely ignored what I said in defense of Ryan, and additionally my warning that Ryan likes to reveal his role as town. A dayending modkill is the best thing a scum can get day 1. Aka, I suspect that Boggzie ignored my posts because he wanted to see Ryan get modkilled, or at least lynched. And of course, I'm still no fan of the quick hammer on Adel.

McPalt:

Yeah, basically my problem with mc is his quick jump on Boggzies case against Ryan. He also for the most part ignored my defense of Ryan. So for similar reasons to Boggzie, he's high up there.

ThAdmiral:

Hasn't really posted much case wise, mainly just defended himself. The only reason I don't see this as scummy is that I have behaved similarly as town. Noteworthy, but not voteworthy yet. Also, I liked his post 434, and was surprised by opies subsequent vote.

Neko:

Opie brings up a wierd point, if nothing else, in 454, but its not really conclusive enough for me to find neko scummy. Everything else I've seen from Neko reads protown, pretty much.

Opie:

I find Opie's jump on the Ryan pm thing equally disturbing as Mc's. Also, in post 72, he says that Boggzie would not have done this as scum based on heat he'd be under day 2. Yet in 161, he posts basically NOTHING against Boggzie. As a matter of fact, he almost never brings it up again. So I suspect an Opie-Boggzie connection. Also, as I've said before, I suspect an Opie-Hasdgfadsgasf connection. 32 and 35 seem a little too buddy-buddy for my liking. In 161, Opie commends Hasdfagads for defending Ryan, but lists Hasdfagad as the only one who did, totally ignoring that I did the same thing. In 457, Hasgdas only mentions one attack that Opie made as his analysis of Opies play, and provides no actual insight. I definately smell a connection. However, the connection cases dont mean a thing until one of them comes up scum. For now, there are better players to vote for then Opie.

Hasgdagdsfsdgasdferqetr:

Obviously, there is the connection to Opie that I suggested above. Also, I've found that Hassdfadgas has been very inactive (though I am guilty of this as well). Not much to say really besides that, at least not until he returns from vacation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's everybody. So really, I've been stuck between Boggzie, and Mcpaltp. Given the fact tha theyre guilty of the same offenses on the Ryan thing, but Boggzie also had the premature hammer on Adel, Boggzie has earned my vote today.

vote: Boggzie

[Elias_the_thief]

I have to say guys, I'm surprised by the lack of response. =(

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, and Elias? I jumped on Ryan

NOT BECAUSE OF BOGGZIE'S CASE, AMAZINGLY ENOUGH!

But because of the way he freaked out when it was levied against him. I've said this like, ten times now.

And, uh, I see ThAdmiral still has not bothered to make a case or vote for

anyone

yet. What's the deal? Separating the case you want to post against me from your scumbuddy Neko? That's my guess.

And what about freaking out in that manner made him scum? Dont you see how town could freak out if they see the town turning against them based on false pretenses? further, the only post after boogzie brought up his case that Ryan posted was as follows:

Your statement is 110% false. There IS a possibility that I PMed you to be in a game I'm currently modding and needing a replacement (Open 41 if anyone wants to check) but other than that what you've said is a 100% LIE.

Unvote/Vote:Boggzie

How is that "freaking out"? Also, in your consequent post, you say this:
"It would be not so bright to claim so strongly on someone unless it's a gambit or you have really great proof."
Basically implying you believe the case that Boggzie is putting forward. You say that coupled with the OMGUS it is voteworthy. So basically, you lied, your reasoning was partially based on his case.

[Elias_the_thief]

My vote was not "cemented" on Ryan until he freaked out. Believe what you want, though.

Ok. Then my original point stands, and I certainly will consider switching my vote over to you.

As for ThAmiral's miraculous case all of a sudden: *holy crap!* your scumbuddies must have prodded you quite a bit for you to finally get a case out. I have no idea whatever it is that opie is thinking. It is funny that he's voting along with me though. I haven't been thinking of him as all that scummy, but I'm willing to take another look. The vote against opie seems opportunistic and right in step with your buddy, neko.

Um... ou start out by making useless accusations that he's scuim with someone, don't really address his accusations against you, though better founded, and finally accuse him of being buddies with neko, which is really pretty baseless. Combined with the fact that you originally lied about your reason for voting Ryan,

unvote, vote: Mcpalt

. Also, there's not much sense in pressuring someone inactive who seems llike he'll be replaced.

Speaking of which,

mod, any word on boggzie?

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias_the_thief mentioned he like ThAdmiral's Post 434. I didn't. The first full paragraph is simply a recap of what happened in this game so far.

Firstly, he also adds some interpretation. Secondly, recapping is protown 1) because it allows the town to get a better understanding of the game, 2) it helps the town to get a better read on the player that posted it.

He then admits that he has not followed through on any solid cases and is not confident in his scum-catching abilities. This makes him cautious, and it is this cautiousness has managed to keep him alive. He admits that this behavior doesn't seem to help the town, but a surviving townie is better than a dead townie. I have a problem with this sentiment. Alive townies are always better than dead townies, but I feel this leads to sacrificing active townies for passive townies.

He says it may have been more useful. Not that it always is. Also, you think he's suspicious because of your own imagined scenarios that his own-time-use meta strategy lead to?

Active townies are better than passive townies.

Not necessarily true.

He then says that he suspects me, he could make a case against me but essentially why bother. Then he pleads any power role to reveal or we are all screwed. This whole sentiment in anti-town and for that reason I was not impressed with this post. I'm not sure what was to like in this post.

No, wrong again. These statements need to be combined. He's saying that a case could be strong, but information from a power role would be more reliable. He pleads this way because we are very close to LYLO. Though he is incorrect in saying the mafia hasnt hit any powerroles. hermit was a mason.

The part that I liked about the post is that it showed that he has a view of the game that is current, he is willing to start posting in the future, he is willing to give us his feelings on the game, and help us to get a better read. In addition, I sympathize with his scumhunting issues as I faced similar problems when i first started playing (which I can complensate for with my skills at defense).

[Elias_the_thief]

Also, you think he's suspicious because of your own imagined scenarios that his own-time-use meta strategy lead to?

I'm a little confused by what you are saying here.

You said that you think the thing that he said about passive townies and active townies will lead to sacrificing one for the other, which he never said, and also, he said that this happened to be useful this once, not that it is always better to use this strategy.

[Elias_the_thief]

This display from MC is definately not impressing me. In other news, I will be away from tomorrow until sometime sunday. I'm not going to unvote before I go, I'm confident in my vote.

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah, I really enjoyed this game. I think I was on top of my game, as was Hasdgfas, but really the town got screwed over pretty bad by Ryan day 1, which is really a large part of the loss.

My god, hasd, arent you so happy that I remembered my read on Bookitty? It all came from that thing with the clearing herself. To me it seemed that only someone who knew that the potential lynchee was town would enter into it.

Also, Rishi, thanks for this game. Good flavour, and I think one of the most enjoyable games of mafia I've played on the site in a while.

[Elias_the_thief]

I pmed mith about it and he said he would deal with it. I don't think it will be an issue in the future for him.

Yeah, I noticed that Rishi, but given that I quickly posted my own LOS with hasdgfas included, and the lurking thing you mentioned, it would have been easy to recover.

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that had we hit Boo, we couldve still pulled it out, given that we were both considered town by most, and there were several viable lynch targets. Hasdgfas definately surprised me. For being relatively new, he played remarkably well.

[Elias_the_thief]

well adel, two of us (scum) were purposefully pushing that negative attention, but ya know. Mc, you really werent that scummy. Remember that there were three scum pushing your wagon.

[Elias_the_thief]

ThAdmiral: While I'm thankful that you protected me, I would like to know why you thought I was the most pro-town? It's hard to see these things yourself when you're the one playing, so for my future reference I want to know what you saw.

Nothing in particular. You weren't so quick to jump on people most of the time which I thought seemed non-scummy. Funnily enough my next choice for town would have been elias!

Wow, I really can't believe that.