Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[mcpaltp]

/confirm

[mcpaltp]

vote: Boggzie

I think I know you from somewhere. That makes you suspicious in my book!

[mcpaltp]

Frankly, I thought it was very clearly a joke.

[mcpaltp]

This is day one. It would be not so bright to claim so strongly on someone unless it's a gambit or you have really great proof. This, admittedly WIFOM-y logic, coupled with ryan's OMGUS response makes me suspicous of ryan.

Vote:ryan

[mcpaltp]

oh yeah,

unvote, vote:ryan

sorry about that.

Oh, and the whole exchange with Bookitty isn't really influencing my decison, if anyone is wondering.

[mcpaltp]

You're right, Boggzie. I did receive one well before this game. And I should have said I received no PMs from ryan regarding this game.

That said, I'm about to do something I never expected to do,

which is place a vote on someone hoping that they are town

. I see no way to clear my name otherwise.

unvote; vote ryan

That is one of the scummiest lines I've read on this site. You are willing to sacrifice a townie in order to clear yourself?

Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never,

ever

vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do. If I didn't think that ryan was scum, I'd be voting for you in a heartbeat.

I wish I had two votes.

Oh, and ryan may be right, but I still think he's scum.

[mcpaltp]

My damage? What are you talking about? I'm pissed because a blatant lie has been told and without jumping up and down wearing a "I am town shirt" you people are actually buying that I'm scum and sent a PM to the wrong scum partner. And you're taking one persons word over another and that is the wrong way to play mafia and you know it too. Evidence is how you lynch somebody not one person over another.

Why am I voting for you?

I am voting for you because I think Boggzie's argument scans, at least a little bit, and your angry, emotional defenses and lanshing outs seem like scum flailing to get the attention off of himself and onto anyone else.

As for evidence, how the heck could I have any definitive evidence? apart from gamebreaking stuff like role pms, or vote history examinations (not as useful on day 1) the only thing to go off of is post content analysis. You have the scummiest responses (OMGUS, extreme defensiveness), so I think you are

most likey

to be scum.

[mcpaltp]

Well if you think that I'm scum who would send a PM to the wrong partner you are sadly mistaken.

Slip-ups happen.

[mcpaltp]

Rationally, I'd explain why I think it's a lie and answer questions asked of me. It's just a game and it's a common tactic of scum to fake the indignant response and divert attention elsewhere. Lack of scrutiny and distractions are the scum's friend, emotional responses are distracting.

As town, it's in the best interest of the town to protect town and lynch scum. wildly diverting attention to anyone else is self-serving, and not in the best interst of the town. Who wants to do things that are not in the best interest of the town? Scum, some 3rd parties who don't win with town, and persons under bizzare post restrictions. Eliminating the thrid option as highly unlikely,

chances are

you are scum.

There is some possibility (illustrated aboive by SJ and others) that both of you are confused townies, but I evaluate how people respond to allegations and accusations as much as the allegations and accusations themselves. And frankly, I beleive in putting my money where my mouth is and voting for whomever I think is the scummiest at the time that I post.

Hence my vote on you.

[mcpaltp]

*snip* Listen, everybody: you should never,

ever

vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do.

I disagree with this. A lot. There ARE valid reasons to be voting someone you think might be town (gambits, pressure to force posts, to provoke a reaction), and even reasons to lynch town sometimes (plain sight lurkers, purposeful anti town behavior from a proven town player). However, I will agree that what Boo said was scummy. Voting for someone to clear your name is most definately NOT a valid reason to vote for someone you might think it town. An

FoS

is in order.

also, forgot an FoS for MC for the "listen guys" and consequent direction of what the town should think.

I'll concede that there are a few corner cases where it is appropriate or even a good idea to vote for someone who you think may have a chance of being town, but those are pretty infrequent. But there isn't any reason to lynch anyone who is town. Plain-sight lurkers should be modkilled, warned or replaced if neccessary, and if someone is town, but acting in a non-town manner(I'm not even sure what this would be), but you somehow know that they are town anyway, you still shouln't waste a lynch where you could kill scum.

When it comes right down to it, lynching scum is the way that the town wins games. I don't see why it's suspicious to say that the object of the town is to not kill members of the town.

[mcpaltp]

So my questions are:
Why do you repeatedly call him a liar as opposed to saying he is mistaken?
Is there anything you wish to state to refute his claim that we have not heard yet?

Holy crap, you are awesome. 2nding this!

[mcpaltp]

Frankly, the lot of 'em seem at least a little scummy to me. I'm voting for Ryan because his responses seem the most emotional and ever-reactiony to me. Like I said before, it wasn't the accusation that mattered to me, but how ryan responded to the accusation.

I feel like I keep repeating myself or something.

[mcpaltp]

Guys I cannot find said PM in my box, apparently I did send one (as he quoted it) but I have no confirmation I sent him one to replace into my game. You can go look as I was looking for replacements (and found) since this game started. All I can say is he is lying if he says I'm scum and sent him a scum laced PM, it's simply not true

That wasn't what he said at all. His suspicions (in his posts at least) were that you sent him a message then deleted it before he could read it. As it came during the first night right at the beginning of the game, he thought that you may have mistaken him for a scumbuddy.

Reviewing over his posts, I see no indication that he claimed that he was able to read the PM, just that the timing was fishy.

[mcpaltp]

(forgot to add this bit)

Frankly, I'm just seeing a lot of misdirections and misrepresentations from Ryan. Lying and trying to direct suspicion on the attacker seems scummy to me.

My vote stands, and it would take an awful lot for me to change it.

[mcpaltp]

Seriously, are you a jester or something? I wish I could vote for you more than once. If you flip town, I'll have egg on my face, but as of now I am super confident in my position. I am 99.9% convinced you are scum at this point.

[mcpaltp]

I swear that I've already been over this before, but I am not voting for you due to Boggzie's claim of you receiving the PM. I am voting for you because your responses have been highly emotionaly charged, antagonistic, misleading and a pretty clear attempt to draw the attention away from yourself.

Also as I have said before, there is

virtually no way

to get definitive proof that someone is scum, especially on day 1.

Your posts

have most heavily rung as scum to me, hence my vote.

I hate doing the epic multi-quote megapost thing as it takes forever to collate all of the data, but I will if I have to.

[mcpaltp]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

[mcpaltp]

If I was scum, I'd bus him.










Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryan

[mcpaltp]

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

[mcpaltp]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

I have yet to see boggzie lie. Quote please?

[mcpaltp]

I guarantee you will be lynched after my role is outed and that's not a "let's put fear into you" quote, why would I delete a PM I sent to you? That's just stupid. I have no scum buddies, my vote remains on you for lying and keeping up this crap logic and your badgering is bullshit.

I have yet to see boggzie lie. Quote please?

Here ya go

I believe

the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.

Did you read this part? When I read this, I see boggzie postulating that you may be scum due to the weird PM behavior. He may be right, he may be wrong. I did not see him say "ZOMG guyz, ryan totally pm'd me that he was scum! lynch him amirite?", which is what you seem to be saying was what he said.

That being said, I didn't beleive that you were scum until you responded way out of whack and started OMGUSing all over the place. For more detail see the last million posts addressed at you. Are you even reading them?

I'm not trying to be mean, and if you feel as though I am strawmanning or misrepresenting you in any way please let me know.

I still think you are scum and my vote is mega-confirmed.

[mcpaltp]

Great. No only is my scumdar competely off and a townie gets himself modkilled, but we lose an awesome townie. (Nice flavor, btw) This blows.

Oh, and thanks ryan. Thanks a bunch. Not only is a townie lynched, but we don't even get any vote histories to analyse.

If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.

[mcpaltp]

I did forget to insert the /humour tag before and after. My bad.

No, Ryan's bad. It wasn't needed.

This is post #55, last Wednesday. This was the last thing that ThAdmiral posted, unless I missed him in the last few pages. We did just have an unexpected night, but I'd like to see, well,

any

content from him.

I am somewhat suspicious of Boggzie and Bookittie, but considering how much I though ryan was scum, it would be at least a little hypocritical to jump on either of them right now. I leaning towards "honest mistake" for the PM, but I'm going to reserve judgement for right now. They havn't been registering as scum so much to me, but my 'dar has clearly been on the fritz recently.

Oh well. Perhaps this will flush ThAdmiral out.

Vote:ThAdmiral

Mostly for my own curiosity:

Ignoring hindsight for now, did you think Ryan was scum/scummy? If not, where did you think my logic went off the rails? If so, did you agree with my reasoning?

[mcpaltp]

So, what now town? I thought ryan was getting a little overemotional, but I didn't expect him to become an hero. I'm not all that suspicious of Boggzie; I think he really did believe ryan made a scum slip-up, but this episode just goes to show you can't base an accusation of mis-sent PMs. All of Day 1 was just too meta. And on top of that, we lost Spider Jerusalem! Man, no good comes from getting too emotional.

Now that I'm done summarizing the events of last night, I'm going to

Vote: mcpaltp

. Not only did he stubbornly refuse to accept that there was possibly no relevancy to the PM issue, but he comes out of the gate bowing and scraping. In my experience, after a mafia lynches a townie they are usually full of contrition. Not only that, I see his "if you think I was wrong I'll ask to be replaced" as obvious emotional manipulation. I'm not falling for it.

I press hard on some guy I've just met and he commits the mafia equivalent of suicide. I feel guilty and responsible, and if my pressuring is out of line for this mafia community, I offered to be replaced. I'm pretty new here and I'm used to a slightly different playstyle. I'm sorry if you see it as emotional manipulation, that's not my intention. If I was out of line, I'd leave this game, if it was ok, I'd stay. Simple as that, but I wanted to know how the players felt.

Also, I'm not sure what you ment by "[refusing] to accept that there was possibly no relevancy to the PM issue". I never really cared so much about the PM issue. I cared about how ryan was responding to the allegation. Take a look over my post history, I repeated myself several times to this effect.

[mcpaltp]

*mega snip*
I evaluate how people respond to allegations and accusations as much as the allegations and accusations themselves. *snip*

Evidence from my post history. See also #s 95, 100, 117, 121, 125, 142. For continuing references of me not voting based on Boggzie's PM-based allegations, but on how ryan was reacting. Re-reading the pre-flip discussion from the last several pages, I still would have voted for ryan.

[mcpaltp]

What I really feel bad about is that he was so upset he effectively modkilled himself to get out of the game. It felt like I hazed somebody so badly that they wanted to quit the game rather than play with me anymore.

That's

what I'm apologizing for.

I still think my logic and reasoning was valid.

[mcpaltp]

gah, again, It's not "oh golly I'm such a naughty boy for getting a townie lynched. Oh woe is me, Oh woe is town", it's "Oh snap, I just browbeat some guy on the internet so much he wanted to quit the game. I feel terrible, I'll ask if I was out of line, and the friendly

players

will let me know if I took it too far."

If he had been lynched the normal way, I'd be worried that my scumdar was a little off, but I would not be apologizing at all.

Is this clear yet? I don't like thinking that I hurt somebody, on the internet or no.

[mcpaltp]

Meh, that was all ryan's fault. In my limited time on the site here I've already been browbeaten at least as badly, and even at my most childish I didn't even consider quoting my role PM. That guy needs to get a thicker skin. No, I don't think you were out of line in the slightest.

We're still at a disadvantage, though... we're at Day 2 and thanks to ryan we don't have much info to go on.

Great. Well at least now I can stop worrying about it.

[mcpaltp]

NOTE: Everyone still remembers that this is just a game, right?

:Dramabomb: ITT. Anyway, good to see you posting TA, and I'm looking forward to your contributions.

[mcpaltp]

gah, again, It's not "oh golly I'm such a naughty boy for getting a townie lynched. Oh woe is me, Oh woe is town", it's "Oh snap, I just browbeat some guy on the internet so much he wanted to quit the game. I feel terrible, I'll ask if I was out of line, and the friendly

players

will let me know if I took it too far."

If he had been lynched the normal way, I'd be worried that my scumdar was a little off, but I would not be apologizing at all.

Is this clear yet? I don't like thinking that I hurt somebody, on the internet or no.

Hey Bookitty, I'll just re-post this, ok? I think I make it pretty clear as to why I was sorry. I'm really, really, really sick of having to explain myself over and over again.

tl;dr: I am not "sorry" that ryan got lynched. I was sure he was scum. I was dissapointed that he was town.

I was sorry that he modkilled himself and felt like I was responsible.

That was why I asked the other players if they thought I went too far.

Is this clear yet?

[mcpaltp]

I'm amused that my tl;dr was as long as my post. Hay guyz, am I doing this rite?

[mcpaltp]

As of right now, I'm the most suspicous of ThAdmiral, due to consistant lurking. (seriously, I could count the number of posts on one hand.) I havn't wanted to press to hard on him, though, to give him a litte more opportunity to come out and post a little more. My vote will stay on him until I get some more content out of him.

I'm a little irritated by the people who keep pressing on me, because I've explained my reasoning

so many times,

and I honestly don't know what else I can say. I'd imagine somebody pressing on me amy be scummy, as I could seem suspicious, but I have no way of telling and no way of accusing right now without seeming absurdly OMGUS-y. This whole episode is making me feel like MS doesn't welcome politeness and regret for potentially hurting someone's feelings.

I'll try to fit in some good analysis soon.

Appreciate your input, though.

[mcpaltp]

I'd imagine somebody pressing on me

may

be scummy, as I could seem suspicious...

This confuses me. I presume "amy" is a mistype/mistake, I just don't know what you were trying to say.

Fixed, see above.

Clarified: I imagine that one of the scum could be gunning for me, as they thought that my apology looked suspicous enough for a case against me to hold at least a litte water.


WIFOM-y, I realize, but it makes a little sense to me. Mostly just speculation, and I may just be letting my irritation get away from me.

[mcpaltp]

Um, SJ's posts were awesome. If I were scum, I'd be targeting the stronger players first.

Or, it could be random. Who knows?

[mcpaltp]

Oh, and I'm still waiting for ThAdmiral to find an opinion or an contribution at all.

[mcpaltp]

"Yeah, false quoting isn't cool."

So there.

[mcpaltp]

I quoted what I felt was the

spirit

of the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point you

were

attempting to set up a chain lynch.

The spirit?

I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.

Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,

I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.

[mcpaltp]

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

[mcpaltp]

What? Are you asking me a question or something? If you did, repeat please, I missed it.

[mcpaltp]

*snip*

What really caught my attention while looking back was mcpaltp's role in the ryanhunt. First of all, it took him a mere 48 minutes and 3 posts after the revelation of the pm to launch a vote on ryan. Then, he does this:

Well, sorry for being a fast reader. <:x>. Are you implying that I was colluding with boggzie? Last I checked, that was verboten, and I was not communicating oot.

*my being mean to ryan, feeling bad for hounding this guy out of the game*

Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).

I've said it before, but I came from a different maifia community where teasing like that was ok, and I started in on it before I was sure if it was cool in this community. I think I've explained myself pretty clearly here several times, and if you have any problems with anything in specific, please point them out.

Then:

*post where I agree with how ThAdmiral was seeming a little suspicious, me popping a vote on him*

OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).

I don't feel like I have enough for a vote on you yet, mcpaltp, but definitely a big FOS

So, wait. You are suspicious of me because I thought that ThAdmiral was acting a little off with his misquoting stuff then switched to boggzie after his emo kick? And I explained how Boggzie was acting scummier than ThAmiral at the time? Is it not ok to change my mind on who I think is scummier over the course of what, 5 days realtime? (26th to 31st of October)

I think you are reaching here. All I'm getting out of this is:
- Remember how Mcpaltp was sorry that he hurt that guy's feelings? Forget the (interminable) discussion, let's go over it again!
- He switched his vote! Scummy!

Frankly, I'm astonished by how little meat there was on this. I'm sorry I didn't think there was much to it at the time, and just thought it was mostly just going over stuff that was talked about already.

On another note, I'm still not used to this whole FoS stuff. Frankly, unless a suspicion is worth a vote, I generally think that it isn't much of a suspicion. I wear my suspicions on my sleeve, generally. You can tell who I'm most suspicious of at any given time by where my vote is, or where it has been in the recent past.

I think that's everything, but if you have any specific issues or areas that need clarification, let me know.

[mcpaltp]

I know Boggzie asked to be replaced in the other game he was in. You might want to line up a replacement, just in case.

[mcpaltp]

Welcome and stuff, Adel.

ps, boggzie: I was sorry to see you go in the mini we were both in . Good to see you back

[mcpaltp]

:psyduck: Holy crap. Uh, wow. That's a lot of surface analysis right there! With all this data, the economist in me is wanting to plot a regression on posts v. wordiness and see if I can correlate it with substance of posting. I'm a little proud of how much I've managed to post. Whoooooo!

[mcpaltp]

That's one heck of a crazy awesome method, man. What I don't like is how you can hide behind your method and algorithm to make whatever sort of reult you want, slap down a 60%-70% certainty rate, and lean back comfortably with whatever result you get.

Huh. I guess it's just a good way to justify following your gut, which is what this game is about to me, at least. It will provoke me to take another look at Bookity and Opie, though, so I suppose it's good for something.

Great angle. 5 stars. I'll lay this vote on you to indicate that I'm not going to trust all of this (admittedly awesome) specualtion off hand, either. Don't take it personaly or anything though, as I think FoS are a bunch of crap, as they just provide a justificaiton for a later vote, potentially ignoring context. I'm not going to play that game. You know where I stand from where my vote is, and that's that.

##Unvote:Boggzie
##Vote:Adel

I see that you are back, Boggzie. I'll look forward to your further contributions, and my analysis of those contributions soon.

[mcpaltp]

Beep boop. I'm a little suspicious of how Opie and Bookitty are jumping so hard on Adel. I'd love to hear from the other members of the thread to see what they are thinking. As of right now, I'm still on the side of "not trusting Adel" mostly due to his lack of transparancy in his magical algorithm. Great grist for the analysis mill, though. Keep it up guys!

<3 <3 <3

[mcpaltp]

And now you are leading the town. Thanks for telling us how to think, Adel.

Scoop scoop scoop.

[mcpaltp]

Nope, I like drawing lots of attention while making quips and pokes. And regardless of whether or not you like the use of the term, I still think that comin' in here all high falutin' and posting fancy graphs and using

city-lawyer

alge-rythms sayin' stuff like

He is not a good choice for today's lynch though.

is jest' stickin' in my craw but good.

Ah think yer leadin' the town and ah don't like it one bit. No ah don't.

And i'm not from MS, so I'm not following anyone's trend. So there

<3

[mcpaltp]

I think presenting the information was fine, heck, the more (good) information out there the better! I just really didn't like the tone or the logical jumps made from the infomation. I love the quick responses, though. You're a fast one.


Oh, and could we get a

Vote count

to confirm that the votes on Zar are not still on Adel? Thanks.

[mcpaltp]

Thanks, Rishi! You're a peach!

I'd rather have the deadline stay before Thanksgiving, as I will have limited access during the tail end of that week.

Hey Opie, your vote was a carryover. (I thought that they would roll off. I'm glad he isn't at like -1 or anything at this point. Yikes!) Are you comfortable with it on Adel? Inquiring minds want to know.

(oh snap, I need to make these posts longer or the rhythm will get me. I can't think of anything else to say! oh well. Hey, I've got an idea! How about poetry? Yes!)

'twas brillig and the slithy toves
did gyre and gimble in the wabe
all mimsy were the borogroves
and the momewraths outgrabe

Beware the Jabberwock, my son
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch
Beware the Jub-Jub bird
and shun the frimulous bandersnatch

So tookith vorpal sword in hand
long time the maxnome foe he sought
Till rested he by the tum-tum tree
and stood a while in thought

And as in uffish thought he stood
the Jabberwock with eyes of flame
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood
and burbled as it came

One-two One-two and through and through
the vorpal sword went sinicker-snack
He left it dead and with its head
he went gallumphing back

And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms my beamish boy!
Calloh callay, oh frabjous day,
He chortled in his glee.

'twas brillig and the slithy toves
did gyre and gimble in the wabe
all mimsy were the borogroves
and the momewraths outgrabe

That'll help things, I think.

PS look for the breadcrumb!

[mcpaltp]

You're welcome! Nice :emo: touch, too. Well, if you come up town, I'll be extra sure to do whatever I can to remember you, like try and out scummy mcscummersons. I'll never forget you. :salute: :eaglecry:

I would call your tactic scummy, but I just pulled the same thing in another game as town, and how could I sleep at night if I was such a hypocrite? I couldn't at all.

(OOC: If that was too much of a reference to an existing game please let me know and I will cool it.)

[mcpaltp]

:iceburn: I sure like you, even though you seem cleverer than I am. Pity you are probably scum.

Ah well, still waiting for others to chime in.

[mcpaltp]

Thanks Opie, that clears things up. I wanted to make sure you knew where your vote was.

And I'll get a little more serious here, and stop needling Adel so much. Sorry guy . And no, there was not actually a breadcrumb in Jabberwocky. Sorry for the confusion. I was just having a little fun.

I'm also waiting for the slackers mentioned in hasgdfas (nonsense names unite!) to respond to the crunchy discussion we've had so far. I will actually not be in front of the computer for several hours, so I'd like to encorage people to really think before hammering anyone. Remember, the more info we have, the better!

Preview Edit: To emphasize, the breadcrumb "hint" was a joke. I was posting Jabberwocky to screw with the algorhythm. Just be happy I didn't post "Hunting of the Snark"

[mcpaltp]

Breadcrumb: to hide hints in one's post that are not immediately identifiable as to your role to lend credability when you claim later on. Or for people to ferret out when you flip as cop or something like that. Not everybody does it, but it can be fun. Enterprising scum can do it too, so buyer beware. Screw you, scum.

FAKE BREADCRUMB: BONES (capitals of my sentences, this could be a good breadcrumb in a OS star-trek mafia)

[mcpaltp]

I'm fine with people putting in some serious analysis, but it sure struck me as Adel comes in, posts a huge amount of data, says that s/he run it through a magic algorhythm that is SUPER SECRET and s/he just can't tell us how, but these guys are 60% scum, but I can't tell you why. Trust me guys. I feel as though it was startlingly disingenuous, and while I could see why s/he would want to keep this

magic method

under his/her hat, it sure as heck doesn't help me trust him/her.

In my re-read, I was startled to notice that you voted for me now! Were you just frustrated with me, or do you

honestly

think I was breadcrumbing scum from something as obvious as Jabberwocky, and then making sure to point it out? You are reaching, but I forgive you for it. I'm cool with the vote, and don't blame you that much, but I'd appreciate if you'd admit that it was born out of frustration.

And honey, I have a permanent case of the giggles. When the doctor slapped me right after I was born, I giggled. When I graduated college, I giggled. When I got married, I giggled. It's a chronic case.

I would also like to know why Boggzie chose neko's vote over, say, mine or anyone else's as being "distracting". Distracting from what? Tia!

Preview edit: Boggzie, I now notice that neko is "off [your] list". Why is that? Seems like quite the 180.

[mcpaltp]

Oh yeah, this is slightly off-topic, but a great example of breadcrumbing as a cop is in the following post:

*Disclaimer* The game is still in progress, but I am not in the game in any way. This is from another forum and contains some naughty language, etc. Depending on your workplace this may be considered

NSFW

. This is a themed mafia, and the theme is Pulp Fiction (the Tarantino movie). That should give you an idea of why this may be NSFW due to language.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t335838379

[mcpaltp]

I think I'm the only SA player here. I'm sorry you don't like me:( it's still no reason to go all emo on us. If you are town, you should unvote now, and at least let us get some more information from your death. If you are scum, screw you, but unvoting will make you look more town, at any rate.

This sort of behavior is certainly making me reconsider joining this community. Bah.

[mcpaltp]

So Boggzie, care to justify why you dropped the hammer? I notice you didn't exactly justify yourself there.

I also really didn't like how much thAdmiral stood back and didn't really participate. He threw a few lines out on how he thought that Zak/Adel was not scummy, which felt like he was establishing a "Look, I thought she was townie, I can't be scum!" defense. It looked like he was distancing himself from the lynch, and already knew how the cardflip would go.

He missed the day 1 semi-lynch (which may have just been coputer problems) and stood away from the second day. For that matter, Holy crap! He hasn't put a vote on [/i]anyone this entire game!

are you petrified of having an opinion or are you just scared of attracting attention? I don't like it at all, and I think you are acting scummy as hell.

##Vote:thAdmiral

Oh, Rishi? I'm loving the flavor. I really liked the bit about psychologists.

[mcpaltp]

Oh yeah, I hate to talk ill of the dead, but:

Screw you Adel for being a townie and voting for yourself. That emo crap seems to be infecting this game, and It sickens me. Both of the "lynches" (ryan was pretty close to being lynched anyway, IIRC) have been at least partially self inflicted townie deaths.

To reiterate: If you are town, do not vote for yourself, it hurts your side Every townie self-vote makes the scum cackle with glee. QUIT IT, not only in this game but every game, alright?

Fer cryin' out loud.

[mcpaltp]

I think that there may be some mafia in Adel's lynch, heck, it may even be highly probable, depending on the setup (on which I will not deign to speculate). But, it would be hypocritical to jump on everyone who was on the lynch, as I am certain that at least one townie was on it too.

Adel was acting highly suspicous, and

was

coming off scummy. At this point, I'm actually more suspicious of those who did not vote for her, all other things being equal. The utter lack of suspicon on Adel by ThAdmiral, coupled with

his utter lack of any votes whatsoever

and dissapearance day 1 is what's making me so suspicious of him, if you have forgotten already.

If you think I've forgotten I've voted for Adel, you don't know me, baby. I thought s/he was scum and voted for her. Damned if everybody doesn't know what I'm thinking at any given time. Basing votes on magic fomulas and hidden information is secretive, and the players with the greatest need for secrecy are scum.

And while we are on the subject, I'm finding it strange how you are suddenly thinking that the magical algorhythm that Adel ran fingering Bookitty and Opie is suddenly accurate now that Adel has flipped town. I have no faith in her/his formula (whatever the heck it is, s/he never did say what it was) and I'm throwing out her/his wild specualtions as white noise. As for Adel's faith in her/his magic, she switched to me, a townie, when I quesitoned her. That says something about her faith in her formula.

Whoa golly, I seem to be picking up steam here.

For that matter, I'm very interested in how you think that I'm trying to shift attention away from the Adel situation. If you wanna brawl it out on who was right or wrong in that lynch, feel free to bring it on. You want discussion that can get really muddy really quickly, and probably go nowhere. I'd rather pursue the guy who I think I've caught a good scumtell on: ThAdmiral. If you'd rather bicker pointlessly and not go after scum, I'd say that's a scumtell right there. If I didn't want to try and find out what the heck ThAdmiral was doing, I'd be voting for you so hard.

It would not surprise me if you were just trying to pre-empt any dicussion of ThAdmiral. A quiet, lurky scum would need someone loud to run interference.

Ha! And what did you want me to do? Aplogise to the town for being in a lynch of a townie? Not blinkin' likely.

Oh yeah, and to remind everyone, with two days of whiffing and eight people left, there is a good chance that we are at LYLO. Watch the heck out for quicklynches and other such crap.

[mcpaltp]

Apparently you either are not reading my posts or are choosing to ignore them. ThAdmiral has not put a single vote on anyone this entire game. He has not put forward a case that he is confidant enough to vote on it. He is acting wishy-washy and is hoping to sneak by under the radar.

I refuse to believe that he has no strong suspicions whatsoever, and I find your defense of him to be very scummy, darling

Rundown of ThAdmiral's contributions:

-misses day one. Might have been valid, inconclusive. (0-3)
-After his absence was called out, comes back to the thread and gives some very mild observations "ryan was SO defensive", misquotes Bookitty, but falls short of building a case based on, well, anything. (4)
-lightly fingers me, cause I liked SJ's posts. (5)
-Chimes in with the stunning observation of "Not much has happened today." And wonders about opie-hasgfas, but doesn't back anything up. (6)
-In response to the misquoting-- It "was the spirit" of her posts, so that's okay right? It's just a "grammar issue" (7-8)
-He starts to get a little bite in pursuing Boo, but backs down right away in the next post (9-10)
-He gets a little uneasyness from Opie, and accuses him of lurking , descends into argument about who was lurking more with opie. (11-15)
-Aaaaand, for the rest of his posts, he's just defending Adel/Zak.(16-21)

In conclusion: Missed day 1, made a light case on Boo, misquoted her and backed down, got into an argument about lurking with Opie, and lightly defended Adel/Zak on metagame reasons.

I don't think he is just lurking, I think he is actively refusing to put his neck out at all. He strikes me as nervous scum not wanting to take a strong position that he may get called on, so he's just sitting back and trying to avoid confrontation. You feel suspicious of somebody? Make a case! You think that someone isn't scummy that is looking like she (thanks opie) looks like she is going to be lynched? If you are town, look and find some justificaiton for why you think she is town!

All I saw ThAdmiral do was to go for the lame defending, but not really coming in strong as to why he thought she wasn't scum. Again, this sets up a "I told you guys" sort of situation. I think that his behavior is consistant with scum knowing that it's a townie lynch and not wanting to get in on it to appear town. That, coupled with his abysmal service to the town and persistant lack of pursual of scum makes me think he is scum.

I also think that Neko is scum for his obvious twisting of my words, the sudden belief in Adel's MAGIC FORMULA and positions and clear sniping with the omgus crack. I think he is the loud, pretective scum to ThAdmiral's hiding under the radar position.

And if you think I'm too afraid of looking OMGUS-y,

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote:Neko2086
##Unvote:Neko2086
##Vote:ThAdmiral

I now think both of you are scum, and would be happy lynching either of you.

Oh yeah, everybody else, look at ThAdmiral's post history for me, okay? Tell me what you think. If you think I'm wrong, tell me. I think I've got scum, dead to rights.

[mcpaltp]

Well, your points of being "cautious"=townie survives this far is only good if I believe that you are a townie. If you are scum, not making any enemies is one of the best goals you could have. I am unconvinced.

As much as I think ThAdmiral may still be scum, I think he is making some good points. Chances are high that we are at lylo. Three scum, which is standard for a game this size, means that if we are off in this lynch, the scum will have a majority, and we will lose. I'm going to join in the call for anyone with useful information to come forward. NOTE: this is

not a categorical call for cops/roleblockers/doctors/trackers/whatever power roles to claim!

If you do not have useful information, you may get something useful tonight if we live. So shut up.

It would also be rad if people put their cards on the table and revealed who they are most suspicious of and why.

For me, obvobvobvfobv it's ThAdmiral and Neko.

ThAdmiral for his fear of being suspicious of anyone and not voting or contributing much, and neko for twisting my words, changing his opinion of Adel's MAGIC FORMULA after she flipped, and sniping. I'd be happy with either of these lynches, as I think both are scum. My vote is on ThAdmiral for right now, but my suspicions are about equal.

What are the rest of youze's postions? Own up!

[mcpaltp]

Hmmm, hmmm hmmm. So, your case is that opie and I have found the same people scummy throughout, with Bookitty chiming in for two of the "lynches" too, right?

Let's take a look at the final (official)votecounts, shall we?

Fifth Vote Count - Day 1

ryan - 3 (Boggzie, mcpaltp, opie)
Bookitty - 3 (Elias_the_thief, TheHermit, Zakarum)
Boggzie - 2 (ryan, hasdgfas)

I this was the last votecount before ryan killed himslelf. at -4

Eleventh Vote Count - Day 2

Adel - 5 (opie, mcpaltp, Bookitty, neko2086, Adel)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
neko2086 - 1 (TheHermit)

Not voting: Boggzie, ThAdmiral, hasdgfas

This was the last votecount before Boggzie hammered.

Now, what do you notice from this? First, that ThAdmiral never votes and that ryan was at

-4

to hammer. Reading over the post history, Bookitty was getting a lot of heat, and had had recently unvoted Ryan, and both Elias the thief and TheHermit had jumped of Ryan to pile on Bookitty.

Now, this raises a few qestions. First: WHY DID RYAN CLAIM? AAARG! he was at -4, fer crying out loud. A lot of crap could have happened between -4 and lynch. Admittedly, he was under a fair amount of pressure, but he still had a long way to go. This calls into question the usefulness of this data, but for the sake of argument, we will press on.

Now, you claim that I, opie, and bookitty are all linked. Why not Boggzie? He was on all of the lynches. Why does he get a free pass? Interesting. You mention him in the inital case you made, but you zoom in on me for some reason. Are you trying to protect somebody? Remember folks, we are at LYLO (probably, assuming 3 scum) so the scum only need to get one townie lynch.

Finally, do you seriously think that the two townies that either got themselves killed or were lynched were not acting scummy as hell? Let's reiterate: Ryan *freaks out* at getting any criticism levied at him at all. Adel has a MAGIC FORMULA that tells her who the scum are, won't share the methods and *freaks out* when called on it. Apparently, we live in a town that is so high strung, any accusations make townies want to throw themselves off their roof after tearing down the weathervane!

And furthermore, I still see your tunnelvision in me as suspicious. I have worn my opinions on my sleeve this entire game. I got into trouble over it when ryan killed himself-- that cheesed you, remember? And it appeared to fluster the heck out of Adel. So I had a wrong gut call on two townies, they were acting scummy as hell, and when I see someone as scummy, I call them out and keep at them until either my gut is assuaged or they are lynched. Deal with it. I still see both Neko and ThAdmiral as scummy, and would gladly be a part of a lynch on either of them.

Oh yeah, if you could re-state the case against me in the form of a bulleted list, I'd appreciate it. It seems all over the place, and I'm kind of getting conflicting messages, particuarily if I follow your logic and find half the townies equally scummy. (ZOMG Bookitty, Boggzie, mcpaltp, and Opie all voted for two people that were town! ZOMG).

I'd also like to see you try and defend your floundering scumbuddy, ThAdmiral. Why do you think NOT EXPRESSING ANY OPINIONS EVER is not scummy? Ready-- go!

ps Where the heck are hasgdfas, Boggzie, Elias the Thief and ThAdmiral? Do you have any opinions? (probably not in the case of ThAdmiral .)

[mcpaltp]

Nah, buddy, I was just hoping to spark a little conversation ITT. It's cool, but I was just wondering where people stood.

[mcpaltp]

Bookitty: You are voting me "[to move] the game forward", think that neko's arguments are off, but think I'm scum. Do you have some justificaiton, or are you just voting on gut AT WHAT MAY BE LYLO? I looked through your posts today, but didn't see a case. I may have just missed it . Also, what do you think about my case on ThAdmiral? I think it's a good one and I'm surprised at the lack of discussion on it.

I'd appreciate some clarification, thanks!

Oh yeah, I'm still waiting on Neko's case too. What's the deal, man? <:x>

ps Limited internet access after this evening. Thanksgiving and such .

[mcpaltp]

Oh yeah, the main reason that I'm not voting for neko right now is that part of the reason I think he's summy is his defense of ThAdmiral, who I also think is scummy. It would be disingenious to vote for the pserson who you think is less scummy in a non-deadline/hammer situation.

I would happily vote for either,

but I really don't want ThAdmiral to continue to slip under the radar. If I keep making lots of noise, maybe he'll come out and we can see what he thinks. Leaving in ~1 hour!

[mcpaltp]

Awright folks, I'll explain this for the umpteenth time, as people still seem hung up on this.

Here are the facts:

1. I primarily play on another site, but came here to see what's up.
2. Shortly after that, other members of the other site came over on a "field trip" to this site.
3. Over the course of about a week or two, due to some jerks from

both

sites, most everybody from the other site were either banned or left, causing no small amount of mayhem in the games a few of the SA'ers were in. For one of the games, the mod left and about a third of the players were replaced, on the first day! It was messy all around, with lots of bad feelings. *I'm not referencing ongoing games here, just trying to explain the feelings*

Here is how I fit in:

So, this was the first non-mini game I signed up for. I was on a little unsure footing, as people tend to be really serious, with little-to-no fakeposting, trolling, or extended joking. The pace is also really sedate, as a general rule. I was playing it safe, so I don't offend somebody and hurt some feelings.

You can see my consternation with Ryan's flipping out. My first thought was "Oh god, I'm such a mean person!" and I posted the appology that everyone got so up in arms about because an apollogy for being involved in lynching a townie is a scumtell (and rightly so). What people sometimes forget is that there are real people posting, and I don't want to hurt people's feelings. Roles? Whatever. People? I care. If you are still unclear about this inane issue, read some of the many explanation posts I've posted the first five times this issue has come up. Or you can ask it again and I'll explain it again. I'd rather hunt scum, but whatever.

And as for my "drastic playstyle change", it's been, what,

months

since this game started? I've already finished 5-6 games on the other site in the time this game has been going, including a 29-player monstrosity and a few smaller 9-15 player games. My playstyle has changed over that time, and this game is showing the progression.

This is all metagame stuff, but I'm being accused on metagame grounds, so YMMV, baby .

Oh, and Elias? I jumped on Ryan

NOT BECAUSE OF BOGGZIE'S CASE, AMAZINGLY ENOUGH!

But because of the way he freaked out when it was levied against him. I've said this like, ten times now.

And, uh, I see ThAdmiral still has not bothered to make a case or vote for

anyone

yet. What's the deal? Separating the case you want to post against me from your scumbuddy Neko? That's my guess.

[mcpaltp]

Screw you Adel

for being a townie

and voting for yourself.

(emphasis [bookitty's])

Hey, I'm not sad when scum self-vote. As a matter of fact, self-voting as scum is a kind of busing-esque move that I see as a pretty strong scumtell, as self-voting quashes discussion (in the most drastic way possible), and discussion favors town. When people self-vote, I tend to go after 'em harder, as it is never (well, rarely) in the self-interest of town to vote for any townie, including themselves.

And for that matter, I like it when scum die. DO YOU? *ZOMG scumtell ZOMG*

As another note that you reminded me of, BK, at lylo, I'm interested in the fact that the scum have not gone for a quicklynch yet. Consider that the chances of 3 scum are probable, and it takes 5 to lynch. This either means that the only guy to have two votes on him (ThAdmiral) is scum, or at least one of the guys voting for him is scum. Buyer beware!

Where's neko? I'm still waiting on that "case" against me, scumbo!

:f5:

[mcpaltp]

Screw you Adel

for being a townie

and voting for yourself.

(emphasis [bookitty's] and now mine!)

I like it when scum votes for themselves 'cause it

tends

to be a scumtell. I don't like it when townies do it, 'cause it reduces discussion and helps the scum.

WHY IS THIS SUCH A HARD CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND?

Gosh :colbert:

[mcpaltp]

Boo, it isn't a crime to see how they react to a little pressure. I throw my votes on those that seem the scummiest, with my threshold of scumminess being pretty low in the (very) early game. Sorry that I put votes on scummy people too easily, Boo.

My vote was not "cemented" on Ryan until he freaked out. Believe what you want, though.

As for ThAmiral's miraculous case all of a sudden: *holy crap!* your scumbuddies must have prodded you quite a bit for you to finally get a case out. I have no idea whatever it is that opie is thinking. It is funny that he's voting along with me though. I haven't been thinking of him as all that scummy, but I'm willing to take another look. The vote against opie seems opportunistic and right in step with your buddy, neko.

And neko? So I missed that I had two votes on me. So sue me. Still haven't expressed your case against me, I see.

Did I miss anything, folks?

[mcpaltp]

*snip*
By way of analogy, if I'd said something similar, and you'd questioned me, and I'd reacted by saying, "I hate scum! I hate scum so much! I want them to DIEEEEE!"... that would be more than a little strange, wouldn't it? It's not really an answer to the question. It's more like an attempt to distance myself from scum by going over-the-top hyperdramatic about my hatred for scum. It's distracting, and it produces a lot of smoke, but not much heat or light.

If you state your cases plainly, then generally they're not difficult to understand. If you start ranting about how much you want the scum to die, when that's not relevant to the question at hand, then no one is going to understand them. It looks like you're using emotional argument (i.e., see how much I hate scum! I couldn't BE one!) rather than simply making your case, and appeals to emotion usually look pretty scummy to me, anyway.
*snip* (kind of already addressed)

Hey man, thanks for misrepresenting me, almost misquoting me, and totally missing what I'm trying to say. Classy.

[mcpaltp]

Wait, why haven't I been lynched yet? Probability is very good that there are three scum. I doubt that all of the votes on me are scum, so that either means that two people voting for me are scum or that they are waiting for some reason. I don't get it at all.

huh. :iiam:

Btw, sorry in advance to the town. I guess that's what happens when you don't make sure that what you are saying you said actually matches what you said. I kind of ran this game as an experiment as to what not reading and just making snap gut judgements would be like.

I guess it just helps the scum. I think I did get some useful information for future games, though.

Oh well. Nice playing with you guys. For my own entertainment, I'm guessing Neko and ThAdmiral are scum, with Elias as the longshot third choice. I know this post is gonna get jumped all over for me feeling sorry, but that's okay. I wanted to let you know that I'm usually not this terrible. I did feel really bad about hounding ryan, and now I feel bad for contributing to a town loss. I'm really very sorry.

[mcpaltp]

Fine by me. Shall we contine the trend? Who wants to see me self-vote here? :haw:

[mcpaltp]

Oh yeah, that's -1 to hammer. Scum victory approacheth.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
Vote:The Lemondrop... OR NOT!

Who gets the pleasure of being the deciding vote? It won't be me!

PS Wow, this will be a perfect victory for the scum. Way to go!

[mcpaltp]

I'm really interested in who the scum are. Promise me that you'll let me know if you found my actions to be a happy coincidence, or if there was deliberate triangulaiton.

Easiest scum victory ever.

[mcpaltp]

I don't really know why. Usually I'm pretty calm, but I've been really testy in a few of my recent games. It's kinda sad, as I'm not joining any games as tax season starts to gear up, just letting the few games I'm in wear down. Maybe I'm just stressed or something. Blah.

[mcpaltp]

Naw, I'm th' softest! Like goose down!

C'mon, somebody lynch me already, the scum have this game sewn up. This is what I get when I try and be agressive.

[mcpaltp]

Nah, my argument is basically just "nuh-uh! I'm not scum!", so whatever. I'm super frustrated by all of this because I have been a huge backer of both of the townie lynches, and I've felt super confident about each of them. I feel the same way about ThAdmiral and neko, so whatever. As a matter of fact, I'm feeling a little better about ThAdmiral now that I think about it, so I might as well switch my vote to neko now that I'm thinking about it.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote:Neko2086

I feel like the crux of the argument against me is that I've been acting differently over the course of a month and a half, and that I've really pushed for both of the townie lynches, and freaked out and apologized over pushing ryan to mafia-suicide. And that this somehow equals that I'm scum. I cannot and would not deny that I pushed really hard for those lynches, 'cause I totally did, and feel justified in doing so. I've already tried to explain why my playstyle changed (Cautious to irate to sorry to cautious and bored to playful and annoying to defensive and frustrated to now [current mood:fishy]) and seemed to get nowhere, even though I had like, a million more experience over the course of the month and a half. And I am sorry, dammit, and I'm not sorry for being sorry.

[mcpaltp]

Good game folks, I hope I'm wrong and there are only two scum.

[mcpaltp]

I guess being really honest and trusting your gut isn't always the best policy. I suppose that this is quite an example of how my scumdar needs some re-tuning, as my top two choices for scum were both town. Sorry for acting so scummy, too.

Excelent play by the scum, and really excelent modding.