Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Zulfy]

You need to
Get done done done done at work
Come over
We just need to slow the motion
Don't give that away to no one

Votecount 1.11

heuristically_alone (L-3)

: Keyser, Floof, iraonavp, toolenduso

iraonavp

: bins, Jaack

Zachstralkita

:xyzzy, heuristically

Not voting

:Robert2424, Dunnstral, Zachstralkita, Tyler, JFSF

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-06 16:00:00)

[heuristically_alone]

If Ira were mafia, it would actually be an interesting move to fake claim a town role just to get me out. Ira knew that it might be him if not me hence the fake claim to really ensure they get rid of the town PR and thus having to sacrifice himself to the town lynch on next day after having mislynched a PR.

[Dunnstral]

If that's all you had to say

VOTE: Heuristically_alone

L-2 I believe

[Zachstralkita]

If Ira were mafia, it would actually be an interesting move to fake claim a town role just to get me out. Ira knew that it might be him if not me hence the fake claim to really ensure they get rid of the town PR and thus having to sacrifice himself to the town lynch on next day after having mislynched a PR.

Or you know, he could have gone with the no-risk option and ..NK'd you.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: HA

L-1

[Jaack]

UNVOTE:

Aaaaand the nail in the coffin: H_A didn't vote for the guy counterclaiming him.

Intent to Hammer

I'll hammer in like ~14ish hours unless someone else does/someone wants to say something for whatever reason.

[Bins]

lol

[heuristically_alone]

Because Zach is still my number one vote, and I'm sticking by it. When I flip town, you'll go after ira soon enough.

[Zachstralkita]

Because Zach is still my number one vote, and I'm sticking by it. When I flip town, you'll go after ira soon enough.

[Robert2424]

Just FYI, I'm catching up, I notice heuristically_alone is l-1. I'm not normally for Day 1 lynching even though I do suspect him. So I'm going to be rereading as he is so close as I read the last page and going beck to my last post to the last page again.

[xyzzy]

it's been 2 days since I last got the chance to post and/or closely read the thread, gonna do that now. my initial impression is that I'm really not feeling good about h_a with the most recent happenings, but I'll hopefully have a more nuanced opinion once I read some more???

pedit: Robert why are you not for day 1 lynching? not lynching someone day 1 (especially with an odd number of players) is a fundamentally bad idea in basically any normal game.

[Dunnstral]

Just FYI, I'm catching up, I notice heuristically_alone is l-1. I'm not normally for Day 1 lynching even though I do suspect him. So I'm going to be rereading as he is so close as I read the last page and going beck to my last post to the last page again.

Pretty sure it's bad to not lynch day 1 since:
1. it's worse to have 4/6/8 people alive in mylo during the day than 3/5/7 alive in lylo
2. we lose out on a town-sided kill

[Robert2424]

Also this seems like a contradiction to me:

I must prepare myself for Jake. For he may try to take revenge upon me from a previous game.

I dont even remember playing with you

Thank you, and I imagine you wouldn't. I beat you being mafia with AJ. it was awhile back.

You thought he would try to take revenge based on a previous game, but you're not surprised he doesn't remember that game?

and let's not forget about the fact that if he were town WHY would he be worried about me this game. If anyone can answer that question with rationale that actually makes sense (robert you can try also if you want) i'd love to hear it.

if robert is town, he should be relieved to be on the same side as me if he thinks I am a good player (thank you for the kind words btw)

I have nothing to indicate if your town or scum. But I'm putting it out there as 1. I know your a good player. 2. Just incase you are scum and I die N1, its out there. I have no idea if your town with me. You could be, therefore why would should I be "relieved". I don't know your alignment.

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia.

Also, didn't you ask Zach if he was mafia, and not Robert?

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia.

Also, didn't you ask Zach if he was mafia, and not Robert?

Yeah well. I've actually not got many q's. I did find the pic very funny though.

now that the topic has moved away from Jake's vote on Zachstralkita, I feel like Jake has been a far more useful player (even in just like the last page and a half). I'm still not a fan of the choices made by him surrounding that vote, but I'm feeling better now.

in response to Jake's 409: I think the relevance of that depends entirely on whether Robert could've had any good reason to strongly believe that you're town at that point; if Robert died and turned out to be scum, that would be a strong indicator in your favor, but I don't think there's any reason to believe that it was anything more than "I believe you're a skilled player, I'm going to keep my eye on you on the assumption that you would do well as scum."

I'm going to reread h_a; I've felt just slightly worse than neutral about him, but given that he's at L-1, I'd like to reassess.

I really like this post. It should be quoted.

I like Dunn's last few posts, I don't think what H_A did was a scum slip but I don't think it's that incriminating that Zach thought it was one. boy who cried scum slip... Idk if that's super scummy.

Robert is more MIA than me so like fuck that. He's sort of high on my list rn I just wish I had something to go off of.
Tyler is probably town
I really like Tool's posts / general observations
Floof is like eh
Jake is pretty town too but I'm less confident
I think xyzzyz has reached a point where he's putting so much effort I'd be impressed if he was scum. I feel the ability to ask questions and pull so much from everyone's posting is quite town. I usually get weary of A LOT of effort. I need to look more in depth in his posts to get more feels
h_a and Jaack and I can't remember who else I'm missing are really hard to comment on rn. I generally don't get a bad feel from h_a and Jaack is like eh but like eh. I need to ISO both of them
Idk who I'm missing
Ira is making me so unsure of him at this point ugh. I really have to draw this out


These are my general feels to that read through please dkm

If I didn't have work I'd be here more. I'd rather be suspected as scum though. My activity isn't helping me win, even though these day TAKE FOREVER. JS. I love mafia, but unless I jump on this site on my phone during my breaks, my activity isn't where I'd like it to be. I like most if not half your reasoning so far.

I'm a bodyguard, so heuristically_alone is almost surely lying.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

This conversation has gone down the poop hole.

still don't really like robert

still like zach i think

Meh? You felt enough to say you don't like me from the very few posts in this game. If its because of my lack of content from other players fair enough. But yeah, I don't trust you either.

it's been 2 days since I last got the chance to post and/or closely read the thread, gonna do that now. my initial impression is that I'm really not feeling good about h_a with the most recent happenings, but I'll hopefully have a more nuanced opinion once I read some more???

pedit: Robert why are you not for day 1 lynching? not lynching someone day 1 (especially with an odd number of players) is a fundamentally bad idea in basically any normal game.

I'm not normally for Day 1 lynches. From my personal experience, my Day 1 reads are ussally wrong 90% of the time. Being said there are very few times my scum list looks simular from day 1 to day 2. Plus, I feel my win more when we don't. But I understand people like day 1 lynches. Some like the statistics better, and maybe dose help you in the long run. I personally don't like it, but I'm not 100% opposed to a D1 lynch. There have been times is was Absolutely great.




So my General Thoughts.

H_A, and Iraon was both on my scum list, but this development tends to make me believe they are both more townie. That probably sounds really strange, but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game. I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

[Jaack]

H_A, and Iraon was both on my scum list, but this development tends to make me believe they are both more townie. That probably sounds really strange, but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game. I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

What are you talking about?

Why would you so blatantly crumb some sort of unique role without telling us what it is? Like what?

[Dunnstral]

but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game. I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

Did you just claim some kind of role? What's a weak townie and why in the world are you claiming

You seem to think your role makes them both town; can you explain?

UNVOTE: heuristically_alone since there was an intent to hammer but I want to go over this first

[xyzzy]

438 (Jaack) - I like this post; there's a lot of good nuance in being able to say "even if our reads are the same, the reasoning for those reads is different, and that's bad," and being able to coherently make that point without contradicting yourself is a good sign.
443 (h_a) - the first part of this post seems very reasonable; the second part, not so much.
446 (Zachstralkita) - I still very strongly feel like you're scum and you're trying to just distract the town, but at least it's entertaining
448 (toolenduso) - it should basically go without saying that lynching h_a at this point in the day would've been a terrible idea, and pointing that out feels like a convenient way to say something about the current state of the game without really

saying

anything.
456-457 (Dunnstral) - 456 is a good post (the last part of it especially) and Dunnstral is a good player. concerning 457, I think it's possible that this is a deliberate effort on Zachstralkita's part to make it seem like h_a and Zachstralkita can't be on the same team; that would be a rather elaborate setup, but I get the sense that everything Zachstralkita is probably a lot more thought out than it seems on the surface. also on an unrelated note Dunnstral has the best avatar of anyone in this game. I feel like I can trust those anime jazz hands
458 (Bins) - I'd be interested in a reads list from you, even if Jake would disagree.
461 (Keyser) - you're missing the issue that people have with your actions--it's the fact that you voted for h_a even though at that point ira seemed like a far more logical vote for you to make
465 (ira) - why did you feel that h_a's 192 was strongly town-aligned?
468 (Floof) - why do you think this? what do you think about this post in the larger context of everything Zachstralkita has said today? I personally think this is consistent with Zachstralkita's entire playstyle this game, so unless everything he's done feels townish to you, I don't see how this in particular would (and if you do get a town read on him in general, I'm especially interested in knowing about that).
474 (h_a) - there's a lot about this claim that troubles me. hard to say precisely how I feel about it.
486 (Floof) - not a fan of this at all!
492 (ira) - I think I believe this claim.
498 (Zachstralkita) - why the unvote?
519 (Dunnstral) - I don't think daytalk would be enough to compensate for both claims being real.
531 (Zachstralkita) - I don't believe this at all.
552 (h_a) - this is a bad way to try to stay alive.
556 (Jaack) - this is a really crucial point.
563 (Robert2424) - this weird not-quite-a-claim is really troubling.

I'm fine with an h_a lynch at this point. I won't vote for him for now because I feel like more discussion is still extremely useful right now, but I'm fine with it happening.

by the way, there was a brief discussion of the fact that I've put a lot of effort into asking questions and such so far, and whether that might be a sign that I'm town, and even though it's obviously beneficial for people to perceive me as town, my efforts to get more in depth are more an effort to atone for the fact that I was a terrible flaky player who did things like abandon games I was modding 9 years ago. I'm trying to be a better, more helpful player in general, and I'd be doing that even if I was scum, so I don't think it'd be fair to have people think that I'm town solely on that basis; whether the things I write actually benefit the town in any meaningful way is far more relevant than the breadth of what I write.

[iraonavp]

ira how do you feel about xyzzy's read progression on you?

I don't mind it. I think they're the type of player who looks at every post individually in isolation and then adds up the points, so it's not like their perspective is fluctuating wildly.

[iraonavp]

If

Ira were mafia, it would actually be an interesting move to fake claim a town role just to get me out. Ira knew that it might be him if not me hence the fake claim to really ensure they get rid of the town PR and thus having to sacrifice himself to the town lynch on next day after having mislynched a PR.

The first sentence shows that you really think that I'm town-aligned which doesn't make sense with the second sentence.

[iraonavp]

No hammer until Robert explains what his role is. I think I know what Robert's role means but I want him to explain it.

I have an idea that I'll say after Robert.

[Dunnstral]

519 (Dunnstral) - I don't think daytalk would be enough to compensate for both claims being real.
531 (Zachstralkita) - I don't believe this at all.

What about day talk + "weak town" that Robert seems to have claimed? My GUESS is that he can't vote or something like that, would you consider that they could both be real claims then?

Definitely not ready to hammer yet

[Dunnstral]

I definitely believe ira is town regardless of what h_a is

[Dunnstral]

Though H_A's reaction here is still bad and I still actually want to vote them

[xyzzy]

my gut says having one player who is somehow weaker than a regular townie and two protection roles isn't so much balanced as it is swingy, and I don't think the mafia daytalk makes it less so, but that depends heavily on the nature of the role.

the use of the phrase "weak townie" is interesting given that "weak" has a pretty specific meaning as a role modifier; it doesn't make any sense as a townie variant, but it might be related somehow?

[Keyser Söze]

I am the doc this game.

A roleclaim at L-2 (without an intent to hammer)? - the timing of this roleclaim is bad/newbish (a more seasoned town/scum player should know when to roleclaim and when not to roleclaim.

...now plays the "newbie" card 9 minutes later :

I a newbie in the sense of playing online in forum, and so far in every game I've participated in I have been one of the first to get lynched.

Why are we all unvoting H_A?

...because he just hard-claimed Town Doctor at L-2

I'm a bodyguard, so heuristically_alone is almost surely lying.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

iraonavp's Town Bodyguard roleclaim changes the dynamic of heuristically_alone's Town Doctor roleclaim. Two protective roles in a mini-normal set-up? The WIFOM is telling me:

I am seeing less scum-motivation in iraonavp's protective role counter-claim than in heuristically_alone's early roleclaim.

I.e scum-heuristically_alone trying to fish out Town-Doctor vs scum-iraonavp counter-claiming heuristically_alone to force his lynch. Both would be short-term gambits, but iraonavp was not in a position where he

had to

roleclaim - the focus/wagon was on heuristically_alone.

Moreover, would Zulfy put two protective roles which would encourage/force a counter-claim needlessly? Doubt it. I think we caught scum like this in another game [two (modified) cop roles claimed - one was scum, one was town - we reasoned that the mod wouldn't f**k us over with putting two cop roles in the set-up which could be counter-claimed.]

[Zachstralkita]

531 (Zachstralkita) - I don't believe this at all.

Oh, yeah, I

really

care about your deductive instincts and how accurate they are.

498 (Zachstralkita) - why the unvote?

Read the post above that one and see if you can.. put it all together

446 (Zachstralkita) - I still very strongly feel like you're scum and you're trying to just distract the town, but at least it's entertaining

What university are you getting your degree in forensic science from?