Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok there's no way you can say it and actually be expected to be taken seriously.

I'll do those things after I do the other thing first. I'll probably do it tonight.

[Jake from State Farm]

robert's scum

At least somebody else sees it.

[Keyser Söze]

Zachstralkita, could you please explain/or state your position on iraonavp:

[This sounds like you are saying iraonavp is town, being scum-read by others (not you):]

You should really explain what you actually are doing, instead of making it clear what you aren't. You sound smart, you sound like a lawyer or something, but you're not explaining much.

It's probably why people think you're scum.

[But a sentence earlier this looks like you are at best

null-reading

iraonavp:]

zach, read on ira?

I don't have much to say about him, except the way he uses " town-aligned " and " scum-aligned " tickles me.

[Keyser Söze]

@floof

But basically we have the same reasoning, I feel as though Jack has been trying too hard to look town and I don't see a lot of purpose in his posts.

Do you see this "trying too hard to look town" / lack of "purpose" in Jaack's recent posts?

VOTE: H_A

Actually thinking about it this needs to post more.

zach is one of my town reads so I will leave my vote here.

I presume your original vote was an activity vote, but then it developed into a scum-read vote when he voted

your town-read,

Zachstralkita - I'd be very interested in your latest individual reads of both Zachstralkita and heuristically_alone.

[Jaack]

Uff been the nasty combination of overworked and sick these past couple of days. Gonna try and give this game the attention it deserves and take a look at the players who until recently were silent.

[Zachstralkita]

Zachstralkita, could you please explain/or state your position on iraonavp:

[This sounds like you are saying iraonavp is town, being scum-read by others (not you):]

You should really explain what you actually are doing, instead of making it clear what you aren't. You sound smart, you sound like a lawyer or something, but you're not explaining much.

It's probably why people think you're scum.

[But a sentence earlier this looks like you are at best

null-reading

iraonavp:]

zach, read on ira?

I don't have much to say about him, except the way he uses " town-aligned " and " scum-aligned " tickles me.

He's closer to null leaning town than he is scum for me.

At this point, Zach is still my number one scum read.

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

Exactly. Made me fucking LOL

[Jaack]

Okay readslist time:
Town:
Keyser
Tyler
Dunn
xyzzy
zach
tool
Bins
JFSF
Floof
Robert
h_a
ira
:Scum

Keyser - Like most of Keyser's observations and questions. In fact, sometimes I'll read a post, note something down only to find that Keyser already said exactly what I was going to say.

Tyler - Tyler's basically been at the top of my townlist since the beginning. Most of his concerns seem well-founded.

Dunn - Feeling more and more confident that Dunn is town. His suspicion of me felt more like it was coming from town misunderstanding where I was coming from instead of scum trying to manipulate what I had said. Despite receiving a significant ammount of attention in the early game, I never felt as if Dunn was acting particularly survivalistic which gives him a couple of town points.

xyzzy - Has less content than I remembered, but the more recent stuff is pretty good. I do have a couple of questions for you that I'll plop at the end of the post where I like to put my questions.

zach - Annoying but mostly harmless. Seems like a possible mislynch target to look out for.

tool - Reread makes me feel a lot better here. Lingering scum feelings mostly gone. Like the questions in 316 in particular.

Bins - Like some of his observations, particularly 217 which highlights some of the many problems with ira. Still have some hesitance about his early behavior in relation to dunn, but still decently town

JFSF - Is very wrong about readlists, but nothing else about him strikes me as bad. Has been a bit abrasive, but that is a bit of a towntell for me. Not sure about 298 as I don't like h_a much at all, but Jake has a general town feeling about him

Floof - Has posted almost nothing, both in terms of quality and quantity. Calls me scum with minimal reasons, then flops over to h_a for even fewer reasons. Seems to think zach is town. That's about it. 4/9 posts have no game related content at all.

Robert - Like floof, he has little content. Still have the bad feels from his first post (I know, I know, let's not rehash this again). Seems kind of sheepy in the few posts he does have. Don't really like how he has 4 scum reads and only 1 town read in 331. Also don't like how he's mostly ignored all the hubbub about his slot from the early game when he wasn't here.

h_a - Do not like his reads in 281 like at all. Says he doesn't have enough content to judge me fully (?), but feels everyone on my wagon is scummy. Reads to me like someone who knows I'm town and wants to leave as many option open in terms of a future lynch on me. (Keyser saw a similar thing in 311) If he doesn't participate on hypothetical future wagon, then he can point back here and say 'told you so' while also not committing to a full town read on me. Also don't like how he doesn't give reads on ira, dunn, or keyser in that post. He did give a read on ira earlier so I can kind of understand leaving that one out, but leaving out dunn and keyser is weird, as neither are exactly inactive, and h_a had even interacted with dunn significantly before that. If one of {h_a, dunn, keyser} flips scum its probably worth going back and checking out the other two based on this post alone, even though I'm townreading the other two players here pretty hard.

ira - Still think this reeks of scum. Have not seen one town-looking post from ira.



That's most of my thoughts right now, but I have a few questions:

@xyzzy - It might be hidden in one of your longer posts and I just missed it, but what are your thoughts on h_a? And could you explain your zach-scum thinking a little more.

@floof - Tell me about tool and JFSF

[Jaack]

Actually
UNVOTE:
VOTE: heuristically_alone

Ira is more scummy, but I would like to see some pressure on this player.

[Jake from State Farm]

JFSF - Is very wrong about readlists, but nothing else about him strikes me as bad. Has been a bit abrasive, but that is a bit of a towntell for me. Not sure about 298 as I don't like h_a much at all, but Jake has a general town feeling about him

I'm actually not wrong about reads lists at all. Clearly you don't know enough about how to play mafia and the art of manipulation. Being able to manipulate town is the best way to win as scum and the more info the scum has, the more they are able to manipulate town.

[Jaack]

I'm actually not wrong about reads lists at all. Clearly you don't know enough about how to play mafia and the art of manipulation. Being able to manipulate town is the best way to win as scum and the more info the scum has, the more they are able to manipulate town.

Being able to lynch scum is the best way to win as town and the more info the town his, the more they are able to lynch scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

but town gains nothing from list reads imo. Nobody really cares who you think are town and null. It's a waste of time that could be spent better elsewhere. I have never won a game because somebody told me who they thought were town or null. I have never seen any game won because somebody told everyone who they thought were town or scum.

When a game is in mylo and town decides to NL (happens often) to get from even numbers to odd numbers do you know what they actually tell you NOT to do? They tell you not to give any reads because if you do mafia knows who they can kill and who they can leave alive for mislynches.


The same thing applies on each day phase. If scum knows who people think are scum and that person isn't one of them they leave that person alive to be mislynched later. People generally viewed as town are the people they target for nKs

without this info scum have to guess. so bottom line is don't give scum more info than they already have. Say who you think are scum and that's it. If you think somebody is town don't say anything unless it comes up as a direct question.

[Jake from State Farm]

And if you still disagree with me that's cool. We'll agree to disagree

[Jaack]

And if you still disagree with me that's cool. We'll agree to disagree

Fair enough. I think readlists help with relational tells as well as PoE, so I find them usefill, but I won't press you for one since you are clearly against it.

[Dunnstral]

robert's scum

Now it's your turn to answer "why"

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: heuristically_alone

For the record I still have a scum read on bins

Also H_A did actually say he thought I was town before he gave his reads list which is why I didn't question my absence

Also iffy on floof now

[Floof]

UNVOTE: Jaack

Ok so I have no idea what is going on right now

On the bright side me and Jaack have very similar reads so I am going to unvote him.

[Floof]

Do you see this "trying too hard to look town" / lack of "purpose" in Jaack's recent posts?

His recent posts where pretty good, I liked how our reads matched. That means that we are on the same wave length which indicates we are both town.

I presume your original vote was an activity vote, but then it developed into a scum-read vote when he voted your town-read, Zachstralkita - I'd be very interested in your latest individual reads of both Zachstralkita and heuristically_alone.

You are correct about the original vote.
I am still scum reading H_A and I am still town reading Zach though.

[Floof]

Can I have a supporting reason (highlight the town-indicative posts) - I'm reading Zachstralkita as null so far (I do not feel like he has made a move - he has been character posting):

There is a lot of tonal things coming out of the slot that I like. I felt consistency and I am not really feeling a scum agenda as well. It isn't about the actions he is taking it is more about how he is preforming them I guess. It is hard to explain exactly how I feel about him.

[Floof]

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so I have no idea what is going on right now

Me neither

[Dunnstral]

We're bandwagoning heuristically_alone that's whats happening

[Dunnstral]

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

[Floof]

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

He was dodging the game and his only post was a vote on my town read. I think he was just following bandwagons at the time which is scummy. I am pretty confident he will flip scum at this point to be honest.

VOTE: H_A

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd be willing to vote H_A or Iran I am going to wait though before I vote again.

But why are you willing to vote H_A?

Also Jake what do you think about H_A?

Wel had you been reading the game you would see me question voting for him and you would also see me say that he's made some pretty good points. That should lead you to the conclusion that I thought was pretty obvious. I don't think he's scum. I think he's probably town. If you are town (doubtful) please at least work on your reading comprehension. It's very important in this game.

[Jake from State Farm]

He was dodging the game and his only post was a vote on my town read. I think he was just following bandwagons at the time which is scummy. I am pretty confident he will flip scum at this point to be honest.

How could he be following bandwagons when he didn't really join a bandwagon?