Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Keyser Söze]

Also, hi ira and keyser!

Hi toolenduso! I was overjoyed to see your name on the player-list.

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

Not a fan of this post at all. Hesitant to vote on the first page? With literally the vaguest reason ever?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robert2424

This feels a bit jumpy -

"vague"/weak is ok, it's early Day 1/RVS

. Choosing to vote/not vote with your opening post is

meh

(non-alignment indicative).
VOTE: Jaack

I like the playfulness in these two posts by Dunnstral:

VOTE: heuristically_alone

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

Obvious distancing, found the maf team

mafia has daytalk.

In a

Little Italy

game?

A little confused here. Is there like an inside joke between you and zach that I'm not getting?

And are you joking about being serious?

I'm pretty sure Dunnstral is not being "serious" - you're not feeling/seeing that care-free sarcastic vibe?

[Keyser Söze]

Well maybe not LITERALLLY the most vague but completely useless either way. It doesn't seem to be rvs but

it does nothing to help

.

"Help" on page 1?

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Are you town/null/scum-reading his "behaviour" so far? I.e I don't understand the tone/goal of this post.

I think the fact that you choose to not answer the question on that basis

is interesting

; I'll have to see more of your behavior before I can comment further.

Town-"interesting" or scum-"interesting"?

[Keyser Söze]

it'd be cool to know why out of everyone he thought jake was the most untrustworthy before i go more into it this though

Robert2424's RVS post is based on Jake from State Farm's RVS vote:

vote: Robert

Cause my real name is Robbie and people always call me Robert and I hate that name

[Keyser Söze]

I love all this:

didn't like his questions in 34 and 40

the purpose isn't immediately clear

like if they're pointed - as in he thinks you're scum then why would he be asking about your behavior like he assumes you're posting for some specific gain, implying town

if that's him trying to get a read on you it's not as bad - but then the follow up is bad because your first response was kinda lame - and then your second response you started to push back a little bit and gave sorta a non-answer so i think the hesitance from him which essentially amounted to "need to see more" felt out of place

I could not see the town motivation/tone of xyzzy's questions (then he later backs down from his line of reasoning).
post 34, post 40 - IMO, they are non-questions (

forced early scum-hunting

)

[Keyser Söze]

my question in 34 was because Dunnstral had a few specific choices early on that showed a deliberate pattern—for one, there was the "this isn't an rvs vote" wording,

which obviously means something

, even if it's not possible yet to tell you it means.

Yes, that was part of my question. What is the "something" that made you choose to flag his "behaviour"? What

will this/has this

told you about Dunnstral's alignment?

the "interesting" behavior I noted in 42 could go either way,

depending on what else Dunnstral does today

.

Ok.

[Keyser Söze]

also keyser, did you not find it notable that im leaning town on jaack for about the same reason you're voting him?

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense

Yea, not feeling the "town vibes", but if you could explain the "flippancy" part a bit more, cheers - are you in effect saying

'the vote is too bad to be scum'?

bonus points because i thought robert's entrance was awkward too

I thought Robert2424's intro post was neither town/scum - it was a non-post (null).

[Keyser Söze]

I DO have a problem with making what appears to be a serious post, indicating suspicion, without voting, particularly at the very beginning of the game when there is very little risk. Being wishy-washy with votes coming out of RVS seems overly cautious. It's offering an opinion without justification or commitment. The feels a bit scummy to me.

I would like to hear why robert singled out Jake as someone not to trust.

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

[Keyser Söze]

I did find it interesting that multiple players (xyzzy, tool, bins) all focused their early efforts on dunn.

I think there is scum in there looking for an easy mislynch

.

I actually like/see this scum-narrative regarding the early attention on Dunnstral's

playstyle

.

Jaack's opening posts have been jumpy but they have been open/direct thoughts (I'm thinking more

paranoid-townie

, less reachy-scum now).

@xyzzy

I want/need to see what is fueling your suspicions. Re-reading your answer to my question (post 59), I do not feel I like gauged

what you were seeing

- I think you were scared of actually answering the question truthfully/openly (

"the best way for me to avoid mistakes that would be harmful to the town is to not immediately trust that my own instincts are perfect right out of the gate."

). There is no

correct or mistake

/

right or wrong

on D1.

[Keyser Söze]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia

but don't have anything to back that up

[Keyser Söze]

It was my birthday yesterday ladies and gents, please excuse my absence - I'll be online later.

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, seeing as your efforts in that regard have proven so useful to us.

Thus, were/are you

null

on Dunnstral's contributions so far?

RE: xyzzy's catch-up post

12: I'm getting town vibes from this--not voting during RVS isn't inherently bad, and there's at least enough content to this post to generate discussion. doing things that

generate discussion early on is good and pro-town, and that's what this post does

.

I'm not sure that was Robert2424's motivation - IMO, it's lack of drive/stance was the thing that caused it to "generate discussion".

38: I don't agree with the sentiment that someone's comfort level can function as a tell with any real level of precision; there are probably just as many people who do exactly the opposite as scum.

I partly agree with this - if a player is 'comfortably' spamming the thread, I would null read this at best. But yes, if someone has a comfortable/open style of sharing their thoughts/feelings, I find this town-indicative.

59: this post is really incoherent, but that's my cat's fault for waking me up at 4:30 am.

I like this observation:

70: this is the first post from Zachstralkita that I think actually says anything significant; the rest of his posts before this one have a really low signal:noise ratio.

Feeling better about xyzzy - her early posts seemed very guarded (player's sitting on their thought-process make me feel uncomfortable), but her catch-up post (post 89) seems more natural and expressive of her actual stances.

[Keyser Söze]

All of this is Jaack pushing on robert for basically no reason. The fact that he just continues on about it was very telling to me. It actually makes me suspect that this is a possible bus between two mafia, though it's also possible that it's just Jaack as mafia pushing on a townie who can't fight back.

I've seen Jaack jump on two things already with an axe (Jaack called it "playing aggressively") - but I'm actually null-town-leaning this style of play now. D1: I feel like scum would be the one standing behind the guy with the axe and not the one

holding

the axe.

UNVOTE: Jaack

Blatant scum.

Are you kidding me?

VOTE: Dunnstral

What was your read of Jaack?

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

That vote

The WIFOM that pours through my veins is telling me

too-bad-to-be-scum

(i.e scum would at least sheep something meaty).

[Keyser Söze]

it felt like someone trying to break the mold
someone not trying to make friends

Yes, I think I see your perspective now. I like players who don't hold their punches (as long as I can see the thought-process). Interactions with players (whether offensive/defensive) is

information

(pro-town-play).

In other news,

re-reading gave me a townlean on Tyler.

Not entirely for the way he's playing

, though he is doing work (a surface-level towny-looking thing), but more the way that people started townreading him almost in kind of snowball fashion. It's striking me as the kind of thing where town say he looks town, impressionable town agree and scum hop onto the townreading wagon in an effort to have genuine-looking reads.

This is an interesting way/reason for town-leaning Tyler the Creator [based on the nature of him being mass-town-read]. I kind of switch off to the popular town/scum reads on D1. Have you found this observation-method accurate in previous games?

[Keyser Söze]

Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

"super serious"...





I want to see "super serious"...

VOTE: Zachstralkita
Your first post and post 122 have been the 2 worst posts of the

entire game

. And in general you got more talk than game.

"Of the entire game"?

Sounds like you've caught up - thoughts? I don't like the fact you've dropped in with a vote but not gone through/expressed your thoughts of the "entire game" first.

[Keyser Söze]

Page 10

Not sure whether I've used this particular way of looking through things in an MS game before...I'd lean toward no. I think I actually approached it this way because I'm fresh off a game night where me and a couple other scummers played Resistance. I won't go into the details of how that game differs from forum mafia, but suffice to say that when scumhunting in that game you need to look at things a little differently.

Specifically, you have to watch for ways that people make choices that seem to align them with certain other players

.

Thanks for this. Your earlier observation sounded confirmation-bias heavy (IMO, short-sighted). But I can see how it's basically behaviour-analysis.

zach is one of my town reads so I will leave my vote here.

Can I have a supporting reason (highlight the town-indicative posts) - I'm reading Zachstralkita as null so far (I do not feel like he has

made a move

- he has been

character posting

):

Spoiler:

You're scum.

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I read this playstyle as direct but defensive (if he doesn't post his thought-process/scum-case his stances/positions are less likely to be challenged in depth (non-productive play).

[Keyser Söze]

Town should only concern themselves with stating who they think are scum.

On Day 1 I sometimes use PoE to work backwards (express my town-reads first) - especially when there are less meaty things to build/form reads on.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

That vote

The WIFOM that pours through my veins is telling me

too-bad-to-be-scum

(i.e scum would at least sheep something meaty).

That's such a terrible attempt to discredit me.

I shouldn't have moved my vote away, I also think my reasoning for voting Bins was poorly elaborated and possibly partially imaginary.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I expect you to vote me later.

1) Yes I did discredit that vote, it was poor (please show me how that is scum-indicative). Many people have discredited that shameless/empty sheep vote which you dropped soon after.
2) I am not convinced that you believe in any of your scum-reads:

This is an empty sheep vote, but I see no evidence of how you got there (where is the follow up pressure?):

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

I am not sensing your suspicion - i.e you've come to a gun fight holding a water pistol with no water inside.

This feels/looks scripted/forced, it's like it's copy and pasted from generic scum-reads 101:

I think you are focusing excessively on this non-alignment-indicative aspect of Dunnstral's play

because you are scum-aligned and your attempts to read players are fake.

VOTE: Bins

Show me something real and tangible.

At the moment it feels like you are forcing out quick votes/scum-reads

I expect you to vote me later.

[Keyser Söze]

In all of Keyser Söze's posts, he is not suspecting anyone and constantly vacillating based on small things.

Do you want a reads-list?

I have not listed my reads yet, but have expressed my reads, obviously not complete reads as this comes with time. I do suspect players (and have questioned them), but even if I did not have any scum-reads is that scum-indicative for early D1? I reject your abhorrent logic - please, tell me which items are "small" or big? In fact,

highlight all the "big things" on Day 1 so far

.

Most of his posts are barely coherent and

he is asking questions without answers

.

Show me, me asking questions without answers?

No one

has refused to interact with me, and have gained information from those interactions.

[Keyser Söze]

@Zach, are you mafia?

@iraonavp - do you class this as "asking questions without answers"?

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

Let me take this apart, piece-by-piece:

"every post he has made has been completely useless"

- please quote my "useless" posts.

"he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia"

- that is the game, you find something suspicious, you vote. I believe my vote was the first vote, it was not me jumping on a bandwagon. if you want me to break down the development of my read of Jaaack I will.

"Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own."

- this highlights your lack of perception. In those posts I was challenging people's positions and stating my own read/perspective on players. There was no

'me-sheeping-everyone-ba-ba-ba' posting.

"doing nothing to help the game"

- this is another unsupported generic scum-read reason.

"205 unvotes Jack, but that's that."

- that is information. Do you agree/oppose the reasons why I voted/unvoted Jaaack?

This feels like a manufactured sheep-dump off iraonavp's unsupported logic.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

[Keyser Söze]

could you clarify your bottom line here a bit more

like what does this do for how you feel about their dynamic -

more likely town/scum or scum/scum?

Wait. Yeah, Keyser I'm confused it seems like you have strong feelings about Ira but you haven't made a clear stance on them? What do you think of ira?

Why not go for the person with the bad logic instead of the person that follows them?

I promise to answer these questions after iraonavp and heuristically_alone have responded to me first .

[Keyser Söze]

I'm still a page behind too - I'll be fully caught up tonight hopefully (looks like there's a few wall-posts to conquer )

[Keyser Söze]

Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp

'fight back a little defending his reasons'

?

Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it

"so strange"

for players to take a firm stance on a

serious

vote during early D1 play?
2)

"suspect of mafia"

/

"possible scum"

- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.

Is Jaack town?

[Keyser Söze]

This is a good narrative on iraonavp's voting behaviour:

ira:

-Ostensibly, ira treated the game like it was RVS until #198, because when people gave him flak for his Keyser vote his defense was that he was trying to build a wagon to get out of RVS. Fair enough. But in that same post he votes Bins, right after Dunn begins pushing for a Bins wagon. It's the same MO as when he voted for Keyser, basically, but at this point he's putting reasoning behind it. So it kind of all comes together to look like ira was floating along trying to look active, then got criticized for it and came up with an excuse (I'm trying to get out of RVS) but also tried to escape the criticism by going to the next viable wagon he could find (Bins). It's worth noting that ira says he didn't know Dunn was voting Bins (#256).
-He switches back to Keyser in #257. He has reasoning, and I do follow it logically, but it should be noted that it happens amid pressure for his Bins vote, and in the process of switching to Keyser he distances himself from the Bins vote.

I like post 282 as a whole alot, including toolenduso's expression of his reads of xyzzy and Jaack (healthy paranoia + re-checking his positions continually) i.e townie-mindset.

Would like to do Bins, Zach and Tyler next.

Please - more of the same mate

[Keyser Söze]

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser Söze has puked by far the most rhetoric and emotes at me, yet he is voting heuristically_alone. Why is this?

This is a strange reaction. Why can't I vote heuristically_alone? You keep looking inwardly (i.e how my vote on heuristically_alone affects other people's view of you - this is short-sighted) - my reads of players are based on individuals.

I expect you to vote me later.

Additionally, it may be because he wants to avoid OMGUS.

Please stop deflecting with your

'OMGUS-vote-for-me'

plea, it is poor play and defensive and tells me nothing but that you are uncomfortable with the spot light on you and extra-conscious of your wagon
Please answer my earlier questions:

Spoiler:

In all of Keyser Söze's posts, he is not suspecting anyone and constantly vacillating based on small things.

Do you want a reads-list?

I have not listed my reads yet, but have expressed my reads, obviously not complete reads as this comes with time. I do suspect players (and have questioned them), but even if I did not have any scum-reads is that scum-indicative for early D1? I reject your abhorrent logic - please, tell me which items are "small" or big? In fact,

highlight all the "big things" on Day 1 so far

.

Most of his posts are barely coherent and

he is asking questions without answers

.

Show me, me asking questions without answers?

No one

has refused to interact with me, and have gained information from those interactions.

[Keyser Söze]

I like xyzzy's catch-up post (post 286) most of her sharp observations and conclusions make logical sense - where I can follow her thought-process (see what she's seeing), but I need to see her stances/positions

in action

(I.e I need to see xyzzy interact with players (pushing/questioning/pressing face-to-face)- to add to the catch-up wallposting.)

[Keyser Söze]

The vote makes me think you are afraid of him

I am not "afraid" of anyone

he's not really made any mention of you in his posts.

This was the attack on my scum-hunting that I felt was unsupported/insincere:

Spoiler:

Because literally every post he has made has been

completely useless

. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally

given up anything original on his own

. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely

saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game

. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

IMO, generic scum-reading buzzwords.

[Keyser Söze]

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

In fact

sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow

. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting.

Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

[Keyser Söze]

there's no way you can say he was insincere.

I just did...

I've already read that post through twice now. I know what he was saying (or heavy-implying).

I have another homework assignment for you when you next get online:

(1) do you think I am useless/spam/non-productive/active-lurking posting?
(2) Highlight any posts where you think heuristically_alone could think I am useless/spam/non-productive/active-lurking posting.

[Keyser Söze]

Zachstralkita, could you please explain/or state your position on iraonavp:

[This sounds like you are saying iraonavp is town, being scum-read by others (not you):]

You should really explain what you actually are doing, instead of making it clear what you aren't. You sound smart, you sound like a lawyer or something, but you're not explaining much.

It's probably why people think you're scum.

[But a sentence earlier this looks like you are at best

null-reading

iraonavp:]

zach, read on ira?

I don't have much to say about him, except the way he uses " town-aligned " and " scum-aligned " tickles me.

[Keyser Söze]

@floof

But basically we have the same reasoning, I feel as though Jack has been trying too hard to look town and I don't see a lot of purpose in his posts.

Do you see this "trying too hard to look town" / lack of "purpose" in Jaack's recent posts?

VOTE: H_A

Actually thinking about it this needs to post more.

zach is one of my town reads so I will leave my vote here.

I presume your original vote was an activity vote, but then it developed into a scum-read vote when he voted

your town-read,

Zachstralkita - I'd be very interested in your latest individual reads of both Zachstralkita and heuristically_alone.

[Keyser Söze]

This is a scum-aligned response because it indicates that he is afraid to read me as scum-aligned.

Show me where I called you 'town aligned'. Show me where I called you 'scum aligned'.
Show me where I called anyone 'scum aligned'.
Show me where I called anyone 'town aligned'.

You are creating false scenarios.

My game is based on sorting players (no one is a closed case, but your recent chapters have been undeniably grotesque).

You still haven't answered my questions

(post 296). Stop deflecting.

(1) show me (with quotes), evidence of me "not suspecting anyone".
(2) show me (with quotes), evidence of me "vacillating based on small things".
(3) show me (with quotes), evidence of me being "barely coherent"
(4) show me (with quotes), evidence that I am "asking questions without answers".

This is what I'm reading people at the moment.

1. toolenduso
   - unsure
   
2. heuristically_alone
   - town-aligned
   
3. iraonavp
   - town-aligned
   
4. Dunnstral
   - town-aligned
   
5. Robert2424
   - unsure
   
6. Bins
   - scum-aligned
   
7. Zachstralkita
   - town-aligned
   
8. Keyser Söze
   - scum-aligned
   
9. xyzzy
   - unsure
   
10. hobbez
    Floof
    - unsure
    
11. Tyler the Creator
    - town-aligned
    
12. Jaack
    - town-aligned
    
13. Jake from State Farm
    - town-aligned

Wow, so this is what listing someone as "town-aligned" and "scum-aligned" looks like........

IMO, it says nothing

.

As I said before:

Show me something real and tangible.

Your list above of "scum-aligned"/"town-aligned" says f**k all. It achieves f**k all. Show me how you got to any of these reads.

Please support your accusations.

Keyser Söze's questions don't have answers, this is because he's scum-aligned.

I am asking questions, but you are the only player not answering them.

His posts have excessive rhetoric and buzzwords which he hides behind.

Again you're talking about yourself.

You

are the player posting unsupported accusations and unsupported "scum-aligned"/"town-aligned" labels.

I think this following post encapsulates you:

Why are you voting for me?

I am town-aligned.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser did you ever answer Tyler/my question because I'm sort of glossy eyed rn but I didn't see it

No, I did not...

what does this do for how you feel about their dynamic -

more likely town/scum or scum/scum?

Wait. Yeah, Keyser I'm confused it seems like you have strong feelings about Ira but you haven't made a clear stance on them? What do you think of ira?

Why not go for the person with the bad logic instead of the person that follows them?

Yes, I thought they were both scummy as individuals (regardless of confirmation bias). [I was waiting to see who persisted in their attack on me with their logic/unsupported scum-read. I felt like town-heuristically_alone and town-iraonavp would be more inclined to reason their scum-case on me.]

However, my pressure on iraonavp met a stumbing block... the

complete answer

is still pending:

I promise to answer these questions

after iraonavp and heuristically_alone have responded to me first

.

But

*spoiler alert*

- iraonavp and heuristically_alone are both guilty of poor responses (i.e avoidance).

1) heuristically_alone seemed to 'soften' on his accusations (because they were unsupported miss-reps):

In fact

sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow

. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting.

Moreover, heuristically_alone did not want to support his new developed stance (post 394)

2) iraonavp has yet to answer my challenge of his accusations:

Spoiler:

This is a scum-aligned response because it indicates that he is afraid to read me as scum-aligned.

Show me where I called you 'town aligned'. Show me where I called you 'scum aligned'.
Show me where I called anyone 'scum aligned'.
Show me where I called anyone 'town aligned'.

You are creating false scenarios.

My game is based on sorting players (no one is a closed case, but your recent chapters have been undeniably grotesque).

You still haven't answered my questions

(post 296). Stop deflecting.

(1) show me (with quotes), evidence of me "not suspecting anyone".
(2) show me (with quotes), evidence of me "vacillating based on small things".
(3) show me (with quotes), evidence of me being "barely coherent"
(4) show me (with quotes), evidence that I am "asking questions without answers".

This is what I'm reading people at the moment.

1. toolenduso
   - unsure
   
2. heuristically_alone
   - town-aligned
   
3. iraonavp
   - town-aligned
   
4. Dunnstral
   - town-aligned
   
5. Robert2424
   - unsure
   
6. Bins
   - scum-aligned
   
7. Zachstralkita
   - town-aligned
   
8. Keyser Söze
   - scum-aligned
   
9. xyzzy
   - unsure
   
10. hobbez
    Floof
    - unsure
    
11. Tyler the Creator
    - town-aligned
    
12. Jaack
    - town-aligned
    
13. Jake from State Farm
    - town-aligned

Wow, so this is what listing someone as "town-aligned" and "scum-aligned" looks like........

IMO, it says nothing

.

As I said before:

Show me something real and tangible.

Your list above of "scum-aligned"/"town-aligned" says f**k all. It achieves f**k all. Show me how you got to any of these reads.

Please support your accusations.

Keyser Söze's questions don't have answers, this is because he's scum-aligned.

I am asking questions, but you are the only player not answering them.

His posts have excessive rhetoric and buzzwords which he hides behind.

Again you're talking about yourself.

You

are the player posting unsupported accusations and unsupported "scum-aligned"/"town-aligned" labels.

I think this following post encapsulates you:

Why are you voting for me?

I am town-aligned.

iraonavp's unsupported miss-reps

and

failure to answer me directly, keep him firmly in my shit-pile.

[Keyser Söze]

Full catch-up and reads later.

[Keyser Söze]

This game exploded I won't be home til tomorrow.

[Keyser Söze]

I am the doc this game.

A roleclaim at L-2 (without an intent to hammer)? - the timing of this roleclaim is bad/newbish (a more seasoned town/scum player should know when to roleclaim and when not to roleclaim.

...now plays the "newbie" card 9 minutes later :

I a newbie in the sense of playing online in forum, and so far in every game I've participated in I have been one of the first to get lynched.

Why are we all unvoting H_A?

...because he just hard-claimed Town Doctor at L-2

I'm a bodyguard, so heuristically_alone is almost surely lying.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

iraonavp's Town Bodyguard roleclaim changes the dynamic of heuristically_alone's Town Doctor roleclaim. Two protective roles in a mini-normal set-up? The WIFOM is telling me:

I am seeing less scum-motivation in iraonavp's protective role counter-claim than in heuristically_alone's early roleclaim.

I.e scum-heuristically_alone trying to fish out Town-Doctor vs scum-iraonavp counter-claiming heuristically_alone to force his lynch. Both would be short-term gambits, but iraonavp was not in a position where he

had to

roleclaim - the focus/wagon was on heuristically_alone.

Moreover, would Zulfy put two protective roles which would encourage/force a counter-claim needlessly? Doubt it. I think we caught scum like this in another game [two (modified) cop roles claimed - one was scum, one was town - we reasoned that the mod wouldn't f**k us over with putting two cop roles in the set-up which could be counter-claimed.]

[Keyser Söze]

Bank Holiday's over, so will be giving this game my full attention now.

[Keyser Söze]

Full catch-up

and reads later.

Bank Holiday's over, so

will be giving this game my full attention now

.

Sorry guys, if this doesn't happen by tomorrow night I will replace out.

[Keyser Söze]

I feel like I am completely detached with this game


Starting my catch-up with a

heuristically_alone ISO

:

heuristically_alone misses RVS and promises to take the game "super serious". We don't see an extensive catch-up or review of the thread. Instead, heuristically_alone dives straight in, on the offensive by

voting Zachstralkita

. Reasons? heuristically_alone accuses Zachstralkita of making the "2 worst posts of the entire game" and having "more talk than game". Zachstralkita's initial play was low on direct-scum-hunting so Zachstralkita may have been the low-hanging-fruit for heuristically_alone to scum-read. The post heuristically_alone picks out to describe as the "2 worst posts" are:-

post 3, Zachstralkita's RVS vote and post 122:

None of you see it. I FUCKING SEE IT. This isn't Dunn being town, it's him trying to look like he's being town.

I'd bet one of my body parts on Dunn flipping scum if I.... had enough of those to lose

[I do not see what makes Zachstralkita's RVS vote as one of the worst posts, it's RVS. However, here is heuristically_alone calling Zachstralkita's reason for scum-reading Dunnstral

bad

. So is this heuristically_alone defending scum-partner Dunnstral... or attacking Zachstralkita for scum-reading a townie? The fact it is early D1 play, I can't see scum hard-defending scum. I side with heuristically_alone knowing

who-is-town

and calling Zachstralkita's scum-read of Dunnstral as one of the "worst posts of the entire game".

Half a town-point for Dunnstral

.]

I hated heuristically_alone's next question:

@Zach, are you mafia?

It felt like fake scum-hunting (a question with no real purpose/direction). This was fake pressure on Zachstralkita's slot so a possible heuristically_alone-Zachstralkita association here.


At this point, there is growing pressure/suspicion on my slot (by both iraonavp and Dunnstral), and heuristically_alone jumps in with his take of my play:

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

It echoes the theme that iraonavp was painting that I was not contributing any original content/fake scum-hunting/asking no-answer questions. My frustration for both iraonavp/heuristically_alone and negative feelings for their line of thought was part OMGUS-fueled, part confirmation-bias. I felt like scum had found their target to push with an unsupported scum case [with the added bonus of Dunnstral (who was being mass-town-read) suspicious of me too]. iraonavp flipped town so the picture is clear now: it was a townie's bad scum-case on a townie, then scum opportunistically sheeped/jumped onto the pressure.



We then see heuristically_alone's hard-town read of Dunnstral (Dunnstral recieved many weak town-reads in early D1, I feel like scum joined in with the Dunnstral love-fest):

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Probably not

It was quite answered in a joking manner, but I think a mafia would have tried to give a more in depth explanation to his process in attempts to conceal himself.

[This looks like heuristically_alone throwing together any weak reason to town-read Dunnstral. Yeah, liking Dunnstral alot now. I don't think scum would hard-town read their scum-partner without tangible reasons that early on Day 1.]


Part 2 next.

[Keyser Söze]

heuristically_alone ISO

, Part 2:

heuristically_alone WIFOM posting:

vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

The premise of this town-town interaction theory is far-fetched [

does heuristically_alone go out on a limb here, and town read two slots for no great reason, other than a cheap buddy tactic?

] WIFOM would say one or both the Floof-Bins slots are town-aligned.


heuristically_alone shares his reads (post 281):

"As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town."

This does not make sense. Null is null, there is no reason for heuristically_alone to town lean read Jaack. A read for the sake of a read? [Note to self: check Jaack's interactions with heuristically_alone].

"I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example)"

heuristically_alone scum-reads myself, toolenduso and Floof as possible scum for voting Jaack early. [Check if heuristically_alone follows up this suspicion on toolenduso/Floof].

"Robert has been really inactive as well, and I don't have a read. If what bins said in 239 is true about mafia being quiet this game, it could be a reason why"

This reads like, "I'm not scum-reading Robert2424, but will happily vote Robert2424 if his wagon gains momentum. But right now, I'm not going to do anything". Why doesn't heuristically_alone push Robert2424 now, if there is possibility of Bins' logic being true? Fence-sit noted.

"I'm pushing Bins onto my scum side of the spectrum for now"

Let's see how/if heuristically_alone pushes Bins.

"I'm thinking town at this point. More of a gut feeling"

This feels like an easy town-read to me. heuristically_alone town-reads xyzzy for making "quite a few posts done that seems to be generally seeking more information from players and challenging players on their spots and it just feels pro town to me" - these look like generic reasons to town-read a player ('Player A is asking questions, Player A is acting pro town, Player A is town').

"I have a little suspicion towards tool. Also like Keyser, posts clarifying posts but lacks giving some original content to help town."

heuristically_alone draws suspicion on toolenduso. Name drops me in there too - let's see if heuristically_alone acts on this "little suspicion".

heuristically_alone uses Dunnstral as a trump card again in his scum-read of Zachstralkita:

"Why are you so eager to get Dunn on the wagon? I think that Dunnstral's line of thinking could be considered a threat to the mafia and would want him destroyed".

heuristically_alone identifies Floof as a

"suspect of mafia for voting Jack".

"If this is an earnest request, then it makes Jake town"

- this town-read of Jake from State Farm is illogical.



After toolenduso defends me, toolenduso continues his unsupported

'Keyser-is-posting-no-original-scum-hunting-content'

narrative:

I don't see how an RVS from another game has anything to do with reading how he plays as scum or town. And why did he become pretty obvtown?

Just by posting a lot of commentary of what others were saying?

[Keyser Söze]

heuristically_alone ISO

, Part 3:

heuristically_alone's narrows down his D1 scum-reads:

At this point,

Zach

is still my number one scum read.

When Robert ends up being scum, you will see I'm right. Lucky for you, now my top two suspects are Zach and

Robert

.

Whoever people want to vote out first: Zach, Robert, or

Keyser

, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

heuristically_alone mixes up Robert2424 and Zachstralkita's slots (post 422, post 434).

heuristically_alone end-of-Day 1 focus remains on Zachstralkita:

Because Zach is still my number one vote, and I'm sticking by it.

Via heuristically_alone's interactions

Moderate suspicion:

Robert2424
Zachstralkita

Mild suspicion:

Floof
toolenduso
Jake from State Farm

Good feelings on:

Dunnstral

[Keyser Söze]

Going to catch-up with D2 next (tonight) before I look at the EOD (end-of-day) D1 wagons/lynch.

[Knowing that scum have day chat, we should keep this in mind as it changes the dynamic of how scum can

actively orchestrate

their miss-lynch wagons/distancing/rolefishing/roleclaiming strategy.]

[Keyser Söze]

Reading/posting tonight.