Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)


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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:26 pm

Post by iraonavp »

In post 300, Tyler the Creator wrote:zach, read on ira?

ira, read on zach?

Town-aligned.
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:38 pm

Post by iraonavp »

In post 302, Tyler the Creator wrote:
In post 257, iraonavp wrote:I shouldn't have moved my vote away, I also think my reasoning for voting Bins was poorly elaborated and possibly partially imaginary.
i think you elaborated just fine, like to the point where it was over justified

please explain what about your reasoning now seems imaginary

I'll try again.

In post 198, iraonavp wrote:
In post 176, Bins wrote:XY, I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to switch my vote to. I just haven't read as in depth as I had liked. I pretty much skimmed and looked at the early stuff before I had to go to work.

My feelings have changed. If Dunn was mafia I feel like he would have dropped this "hey look how into this game I am" (I'm really trying to explain this as best I can) tone after being called out on it by 3 people. I'm curious about how he's actually going to push this "case" on me.

I don't think that is a good reason to think that Dunnstral is town-aligned. If I was using that metric to read Dunnstral I would invert it and call him scum-aligned for it, but I think the best thing to do is ignore it.

I think you are focusing excessively on this non-alignment-indicative aspect of Dunnstral's play because you are scum-aligned and your attempts to read players are fake.

VOTE: Bins

Bins says that if Dunn was scum-aligned, he would've dropped the joking front and became more serious after he was called out for it. I don't think this is true.

I think that this kind of WIFOM logic is used by scum-aligned players to justify their reads on players who are acting oddly, because they know what their alignment really is.

In this example, I was accusing Bins of knowing that Dunnstal was town-aligned, and using his erratic behavior as evidence to support this when it could support any justification, so Bins' inner bias and scum-aligned knowledge is showing.
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:40 pm

Post by iraonavp »

@Zulfy: I am in fact voting Keyser Söze.

mmhmm

In post 257, iraonavp wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze
Last edited by Zulfy on Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:17 pm

Post by heuristically_alone »

In post 311, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 269, heuristically_alone wrote:Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp
'fight back a little defending his reasons'
?


In post 281, heuristically_alone wrote:
Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it
"so strange"
for players to take a firm stance on a
serious
vote during early D1 play?
2)
"suspect of mafia"
/
"possible scum"
- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.
Is Jaack town?


I don't have any evidence that Jaack is town, and for me I feel like a mafia would be more likely to take advantage of Robert's weak vote at the beginning, because a mafia doesn't necessarily care too much who gets lynched, as long as he's not mafia. That's why I stated I don't necessarily have a strong reading.
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:29 pm

Post by heuristically_alone »

In post 297, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 265, heuristically_alone wrote:@Zach, are you mafia?

:lol:

@iraonavp - do you class this as "asking questions without answers"?



In post 268, heuristically_alone wrote:Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

Let me take this apart, piece-by-piece:
"every post he has made has been completely useless"
:giggle: - please quote my "useless" posts.
"he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia"
:roll: - that is the game, you find something suspicious, you vote. I believe my vote was the first vote, it was not me jumping on a bandwagon. if you want me to break down the development of my read of Jaaack I will.
"Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own."
:giggle: - this highlights your lack of perception. In those posts I was challenging people's positions and stating my own read/perspective on players. There was no
'me-sheeping-everyone-ba-ba-ba' posting.

"doing nothing to help the game"
- this is another unsupported generic scum-read reason.
"205 unvotes Jack, but that's that."
- that is information. Do you agree/oppose the reasons why I voted/unvoted Jaaack?

This feels like a manufactured sheep-dump off iraonavp's unsupported logic.


VOTE: heuristically_alone


There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

For my so called "sheep-dump", that was my own reading not going off anyone's logic. In fact sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting. And I disagree with tool, I think you can scum read someone based on their posting style, because within that posting style there will be differences in how someone responds whether being mafia or town. Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

At this point, Zach is still my number one scum read.
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Post Post #330 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Post by Robert2424 »

In post 129, Dunnstral wrote:@Mod By the way that vote list is missing tyler's vote on ira... :cool:

In post 124, Zachstralkita wrote:
In post 123, toolenduso wrote:
In post 122, Zachstralkita wrote:This isn't Dunn being town, it's him trying to look like he's being town.



Trying to look town...could you show an example? .


It's his aura.


Come on Zach you're better than this :good:


We've still got 2 people besides Robert who haven't even posted

Bins disappeared like my town read on them

Here are my reads right now:

Town
Tyler the Creator
iraonavp

xyzzy
Keyser

bins
Jake from state farm
toolenduso
Zachstralkita

Jaack

Mafia

Guess I'm not good enough to make the list.
In post 249, Zulfy wrote:
"For you"

Image


Zuffy? Do I want to ask?
In post 265, heuristically_alone wrote:@Zach, are you mafia?

this is spam post at best? Really dude? At least I made it on your list though.

At this Current point My suspect list is as followed.

Iraonavp. He simply rubs me the wrong way with every post.
Zach, I don't see much helpfulness in many of his posts. I find them mainly, oh I'm posting for the sake of posting.
heuristically_alone, you nudge barely on the list with that crap question.
Jake from State Farm, I do think you should try to explain your vote as your doing it, unless its spam. He dose worry me.

Ones I think is actully town so far
Dunn, for as much as you post, your trying to be at least helpful. but at the same time, your the only person to actully make this list.


I feel the rest could go either way at this point.


I must apoligise for my activity. That trip took allot out of me so my activity sucks ass everywhere. (I play more then just this game). I can only access this game trough my computer, but will be making the attempt to be much more active. (At least when I'm not a work).
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Post Post #331 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:23 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

A number of people weren't on that list because they hadn't said much or anything at that point, you included since you went vla

I like to differ between null reads and "not enough info"
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Post Post #332 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:12 pm

Post by iraonavp »

Keyser Söze has puked by far the most rhetoric and emotes at me, yet he is voting heuristically_alone. Why is this?

I think it is because heuristically_alone is reading me as town-aligned. By accusing heuristically_alone, he chains together the discrediting for an easier push on someone who already has second degree unpopular reads.

Additionally, it may be because he wants to avoid OMGUS.
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Post Post #333 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:52 pm

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 333, iraonavp wrote:Keyser Söze has puked by far the most rhetoric and emotes at me, yet he is voting heuristically_alone. Why is this?

This is a strange reaction. Why can't I vote heuristically_alone? You keep looking inwardly (i.e how my vote on heuristically_alone affects other people's view of you - this is short-sighted) - my reads of players are based on individuals.


In post 257, iraonavp wrote:I expect you to vote me later.
In post 333, iraonavp wrote:Additionally, it may be because he wants to avoid OMGUS.

Please stop deflecting with your
'OMGUS-vote-for-me'
plea, it is poor play and defensive and tells me nothing but that you are uncomfortable with the spot light on you and extra-conscious of your wagon :shifty:
Please answer my earlier questions:
Spoiler:
In post 296, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 262, iraonavp wrote:In all of Keyser Söze's posts, he is not suspecting anyone and constantly vacillating based on small things.

Do you want a reads-list? :giggle:

I have not listed my reads yet, but have expressed my reads, obviously not complete reads as this comes with time. I do suspect players (and have questioned them), but even if I did not have any scum-reads is that scum-indicative for early D1? I reject your abhorrent logic - please, tell me which items are "small" or big? In fact,
highlight all the "big things" on Day 1 so far
.

In post 262, iraonavp wrote:Most of his posts are barely coherent and
he is asking questions without answers
.

:lol:
Show me, me asking questions without answers?
No one
has refused to interact with me, and have gained information from those interactions.
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Post Post #334 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:40 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 331, Robert2424 wrote:Jake from State Farm, I do think you should try to explain your vote as your doing it, unless its spam. He dose worry me.

I suggest you work on your reading comprehension cause I've already done it.

Why if you are town this game would you be afraid of me like your earlier posts suggest?
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1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #335 (ISO) » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:46 pm

Post by Jake from State Farm »

Oh I just realized I misread your post. You are saying I should explain it when I vote. Yeah not gonna happen.
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #336 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:00 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 334, Keyser Söze wrote:This is a strange reaction. Why can't I vote heuristically_alone?

I still don't understand why you are voting him myself. After his early absence he's made quite a few posts that make sense and shows he's got a good grasp of the game. The vote makes me think you are afraid of him which is odd cause he's not really made any mention of you in his posts. I see nothing scummy about his posts at all and don't think you've shown anything scummy he's done so yes it's very weird you voted him.
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #337 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:10 am

Post by Robert2424 »

Well, you moved up on my scum list Jake, congrats. But just behind iraon.
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Post Post #338 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:19 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

I don't really care.

Why did you ignore my question?
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1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #339 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:21 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

It's also interesting to note your too scum read just happens to be the person with the most votes.
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #340 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:21 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

*top
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1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #341 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:23 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

The fact that you didn't even say why he's your top scum read and gives a vague response while saying I should state my reasons when I vote is kind of contradictory if you ask me.
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #342 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:33 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

I like xyzzy's catch-up post (post 286) most of her sharp observations and conclusions make logical sense - where I can follow her thought-process (see what she's seeing), but I need to see her stances/positions
in action
(I.e I need to see xyzzy interact with players (pushing/questioning/pressing face-to-face)- to add to the catch-up wallposting.)
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Post Post #343 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:47 am

Post by Tyler the Creator »

In post 326, iraonavp wrote:
In post 300, Tyler the Creator wrote:ira, read on zach?
Town-aligned.
why?
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Post Post #344 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:50 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 337, Jake from State Farm wrote:The vote makes me think you are afraid of him

I am not "afraid" of anyone :giggle:

In post 337, Jake from State Farm wrote:he's not really made any mention of you in his posts.

This was the attack on my scum-hunting that I felt was unsupported/insincere:
Spoiler:
In post 268, heuristically_alone wrote:Because literally every post he has made has been
completely useless
. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally
given up anything original on his own
. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely
saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game
. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

IMO, generic scum-reading buzzwords.
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Post Post #345 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:58 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? :giggle: Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.
Good questions = informative answers
.

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:In fact
sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow
. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting.

:lol:

In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".
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Post Post #346 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:59 am

Post by Tyler the Creator »

In post 327, iraonavp wrote:Bins says that if Dunn was scum-aligned, he would've dropped the joking front and became more serious after he was called out for it. I don't think this is true.

I think that this kind of WIFOM logic is used by scum-aligned players to justify their reads on players who are acting oddly, because they know what their alignment really is.

In this example, I was accusing Bins of knowing that Dunnstal was town-aligned, and using his erratic behavior as evidence to support this when it could support any justification, so Bins' inner bias and scum-aligned knowledge is showing.
yea but i asked you why you've moved on from that read - not to elaborate on it more lol

i just think there's a bit of a jump in your thought process here that doesn't feel town
within your elaboration here even if you don't agree with a certain methodology (how bins was going about approaching how to read dunn) i think that you're forcing scum motive into something that seems like an okay thought process to have

like im following the scum probably stop being loud after getting ridden by multiple people very early on thing well enough and ive taken similar approaches before so you capping it off with a declaration of "i disagree!" and then saying it's a scum thing doesn't sit right

and you going into what you thought was imaginary about it in detail should be a thing you do pretty soon here or else im gonna have to assume that you backed down from your reasoning just because you were getting scumread for it and that ends badly for you
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Post Post #347 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:02 am

Post by Jake from State Farm »

In post 345, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 337, Jake from State Farm wrote:The vote makes me think you are afraid of him

I am not "afraid" of anyone :giggle:

In post 337, Jake from State Farm wrote:he's not really made any mention of you in his posts.

This was the attack on my scum-hunting that I felt was unsupported/insincere:
Spoiler:
In post 268, heuristically_alone wrote:Because literally every post he has made has been
completely useless
. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally
given up anything original on his own
. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely
saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game
. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

IMO, generic scum-reading buzzwords.

When I get to a computer I'll verify what he was saying but just reading his words at face value there's no way you can say he was insincere. His explanation has more detail then I would expect from scum. You can say it's not true but I'm not sure how you can say it's insincere. This also kind of confirms that you are afraid of him. He makes some points about you and you are threatened enough to vote him. That sounds like fear to me
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Things I've learned.
1. It's just a game, have fun.
2. Don't waste time on people who think you are scum. Ignore them and keep scum hunting.
3. Don't take everything so personal.
4. Tunneling sucks (unfortunately I can't seem to stop)
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Post Post #348 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:02 am

Post by Tyler the Creator »

robert's scum
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Post Post #349 (ISO) » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:20 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 348, Jake from State Farm wrote:there's no way you can say he was insincere.

I just did... :cool:

I've already read that post through twice now. I know what he was saying (or heavy-implying).

I have another homework assignment for you when you next get online:


(1) do you think I am useless/spam/non-productive/active-lurking posting?
(2) Highlight any posts where you think heuristically_alone could think I am useless/spam/non-productive/active-lurking posting.
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