Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[heuristically_alone]

Hey everyone. Feel free to call me Alone. This turned into a crazy weekend. Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

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VOTE: Zachstralkita
Your first post and post 122 have been the 2 worst posts of the entire game. And in general you got more talk than game.

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@Zach, are you mafia?

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I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Probably not

It was quite answered in a joking manner, but I think a mafia would have tried to give a more in depth explanation to his process in attempts to conceal himself.

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My reading on Iraonavp

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Mafia can't be this dumb, this guys town

What?

I'm town-aligned, but how are my posts dumb?

I think that voting the largest wagon is a good way to conduct RVS.

I voted Keyser because I found him suspicious? I don't see what's comical about that.

To take it one step further, a good mafia would have taken that town reading "That's right, that was a dumb vote. Well at least you know I'm town!" (not that a mafia would write that out haha)
Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

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vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

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don't know why I had that post 109 quoted.....ignore it. Must have accidentally clicked Q+ at some point

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You should have done that by default. We know you saw me as scum when you voted me, no one here believed you voted me because I'm your townread, am I? He didn't explain it like an astrophysicist, either.

I disagree. I'm under no obligation to explain something as soon as I vote.

That's the first time I've heard that. Any game I've ever been in, if someone votes and doesn't give an explanation, at least one person hounds down on them 'em demanding an explanation.
@Jake from State Farm what would be the advantage of not explaining a vote? I would think it's in the town's best interest to know.

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Finally, my reads so far

Spoiler: Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Spoiler: Robert

Robert has been really inactive as well, and I don't have a read. If what bins said in 239 is true about mafia being quiet this game, it could be a reason why

Spoiler: Bins

239You've been relatively quiet too this game.
38 States that being super townie is your scum game. Now we know to expect that if Bins is mafia, she won't be super townie in this game. And maybe even if a super townie posts accidentally jumbles in, it gives more cause to her being scum.
177I feel like mafia use excuses like this more often than town. So what you haven't played for a year. Isn't playing mafia like riding a bike? Saying you haven't played for awhile so refamiliarizing yourself is similar to mafia tactic of acting more like a newbie or taking advantage to being a newbie so scummy posts can get away by having players think, oh he's just a newbie doesn't know what he's doing.
On a whole, I'm pushing Bins onto my scum side of the spectrum for now

Spoiler: xyzzy

I'm thinking town at this point. More of a gut feeling. There have been quite a few posts done that seems to be generally seeking more information from players and challenging players on their spots and it just feels pro town to me

Spoiler: tyler

vote:xyzzy

guess why im voting this

Still confused about what you meant by this. Were you assuming that we though it obvious why you voted thus?
First assumption is that Tyler is town. Also a gut choice. He does seem to think Jack is town and has some doubt on Bins like me, so with common thoughts, I'll put him as town for now.

Spoiler: Toolenduso

As you might have guess from my Jack reading, I have a little suspicion towards tool. Also like Keyser, posts clarifying posts but lacks giving some original content to help town.

Spoiler: Zach

My vote stays on Zach for now.
70 "Also, I'm certain you guys aren't aware of this, but I have a mental power thing like I can see into people's hearts with my mind. Like a scouter for your soul. I have the intuition of a reincarnated something. Sure, It's natural to be skeptical, but expect me to make a definite solid statement on the true identity of the scumteam at some point and be super right. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe 19 days from now. Maybe in 5 minutes." I find this a scummy post. Obviously trying to have some fun with the game, but also poking fun around the the time limit and not giving definite times. This type of joking is something I've seen other mafia and myself do as scum.
146Why are you so eager to get Dunn on the wagon? I think that Dunnstral's line of thinking could be considered a threat to the mafia and would want him destroyed

@Zach What's all this shade getting thrown my way without really saying anything of value

You're scum.

Refuses to give explanation of vote other than "He is scum". Voting people without evidence hurts town.

There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I vote the last option. If we are wrong and you are townie, than we can go after Dunn.

Spoiler: Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

Spoiler: Jake

246Asks people to not use lists because it helps the mafia out too much and doesn’t help the town. If this is an earnest request, then it makes Jake town, whether or not people agree with him on his opinion of read lists

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Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

OK, but here's the thing though. Take a look at Keyser's early-game posts in this game.

I'm not gonna give him a pass or anything just yet, and actually I want to go through his ISO here in a minute, but I am approaching this with the knowledge that: A) People were suspicious of Keyser early in that game too, and B) Eventually he became pretty obvtown.

I don't see how an RVS from another game has anything to do with reading how he plays as scum or town. And why did he become pretty obvtown? Just by posting a lot of commentary of what others were saying?

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you could still repost it adding in who you're talking about

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There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.


More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.

I vote the last option. If we are wrong and you are townie, than we can go after Dunn.

Huh? I don't even want to lynch Zach and if he's town that doesn't magically make me mafia

Just a dumb thing to say considering you said you thought I was town otherwise

To clarify, I was attempting to make a little joke on what he had said. I know that if he's town you're not magically mafia. I would have to revaluate the whole game at that point. Anyhow, I still feel confident in my read on Zach

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Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

Why can't scum-iraonavp

'fight back a little defending his reasons'

?

Jack

First off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum. As for Jack, I don't have enough information yet from him to really say for me what he is, but for now I'm leaning on town.

Floof

Also a suspect of mafia for voting Jack. There hasn't been any more substantial reading from Floof to get more of an opinion.

1) Why is it

"so strange"

for players to take a firm stance on a

serious

vote during early D1 play?
2)

"suspect of mafia"

/

"possible scum"

- if you're scum-reading players off Jaack's early wagon, this sounds like your town-read should be stronger than "leaning on town" / "don't have enough information yet".

Either (a) you have a strong town-read of Jaack, thus, naturally scum-reading the players on his wagon (confirmation bias) or (b) you 'know' he is town.

Is Jaack town?

I don't have any evidence that Jaack is town, and for me I feel like a mafia would be more likely to take advantage of Robert's weak vote at the beginning, because a mafia doesn't necessarily care too much who gets lynched, as long as he's not mafia. That's why I stated I don't necessarily have a strong reading.

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@Zach, are you mafia?

@iraonavp - do you class this as "asking questions without answers"?

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

Let me take this apart, piece-by-piece:

"every post he has made has been completely useless"

- please quote my "useless" posts.

"he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia"

- that is the game, you find something suspicious, you vote. I believe my vote was the first vote, it was not me jumping on a bandwagon. if you want me to break down the development of my read of Jaaack I will.

"Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own."

- this highlights your lack of perception. In those posts I was challenging people's positions and stating my own read/perspective on players. There was no

'me-sheeping-everyone-ba-ba-ba' posting.

"doing nothing to help the game"

- this is another unsupported generic scum-read reason.

"205 unvotes Jack, but that's that."

- that is information. Do you agree/oppose the reasons why I voted/unvoted Jaaack?

This feels like a manufactured sheep-dump off iraonavp's unsupported logic.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

For my so called "sheep-dump", that was my own reading not going off anyone's logic. In fact sheep dump makes for a great fertilizer in helping a garden to grow. I must say your posts have matured in giving more content since I initially dropped your name based on the way you were posting. And I disagree with tool, I think you can scum read someone based on their posting style, because within that posting style there will be differences in how someone responds whether being mafia or town. Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.

At this point, Zach is still my number one scum read.

[heuristically_alone]

There is quite an objective difference to how mafia and town answer the question to be straight up asked if they are scum.

Town are statistically significantly more likely to just give a simple "no" answer. Scum usually give a more complicated answer or deflect with something. Zach kind of gave a combination of the two.

"statistically"? Felt like a fruitless question/unproductive pressure to me - I can't see how you can read alignment in a response to that question.

Good questions = informative answers

.

When Robert ends up being scum, you will see I'm right. Lucky for you, now my top two suspects are Zach and Robert.

@Zach, are you mafia?

this is spam post at best? Really dude? At least I made it on your list though.

What an entrance to your final return to the game.

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In post 330, heuristically_alone wrote:Now that I have called you out a little on how you're posting, your posting has developed a little more and you are contributing info to the game.Please highlight the posts where you think I am now "contributing info".

You more than anyone has been fighting me back on my original read on you. It for that reason that you appear more scummy than when I had initially assessed you. Anyhow, it's not my job to tell you your most contributing posts.

Whoever people want to vote out first: Zach, Robert, or Keyser, I am more than happy with getting anyone one of those 3 out.

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wow robert actually made a good point. I decided to fact check and now I want to ask HA a question.

@HA, can you explain why you think it's possible mafia is taking advantage of robert's early vote like you mention in these 2 quotes

irst off, I found it so strange that so many people read Jack so early on as scum or town based on his vote in post 13 against Robert. I think anyone voting him as an easy vote at the beginning makes for possible scum players, (Keyser, tool, floof for example), not that I'm saying that one of them HAVE to be scum.

I don't have any evidence that Jaack is town, and for me I feel like a mafia would be more likely to take advantage of Robert's weak vote at the beginning

to Robert is scum.

Please show me what caused that 180 because while you never actually say robert is town, it is very much implied you think he could be if you are looking for scum on his early voters.

I feel like it would be more of a mafic tactic than town, since a town putting a vote at that point is rather pointless and absolutely no evidence to back it up. That's why I felt like for a player voting because of Robert's early vote, it is a greatest chance they are mafia by my book. Granted, I make assumptions sometimes based off of what I would do in situations if I were mafia or town, and it's true that not all think alike.

@Robert I already explained my reasoning for why I added you to my scum board, and if you were paying attention you would see that it has nothing to do with what you think of me, but of how you answered my question when I asked if you were mafia. Now, because of how hard you're pushing back, it just increases my suspicions of you.

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Ok, now I see where I went wrong and why Robert had asked me for my reasoning. When Robert had quoted my question to Zach, I read it wrong and though that Robert was responding as if I asked him the same question "Are you mafia?" It is a tactic that I tried in a couple of other games as well, and I got mixed up on who all I'd asked. That's why I read Robert as scum, when in fact he was just commenting on that question, and now I mixed myself up, sorry Robert. Though Robert did get pretty defensive once I accused him, which is still interesting to note, but it could be because I literal read him as scum without valid evidence or reason. Whoops.

@Dunnstral, are you saying that you feel like I'm ignoring you, or everyone in general?

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Well it's probably goofy, but my instant reaction to noticing that he left of 3 players is that he accidentally forgot to include his scumbuddies. It's probably not the right conclusion to jump to, particularly because I think that Dunn and Keyser are town, but it is something that stuck out to me. I just find it odd that someone would post a list of reads on almost everyone. That feels odd to me logistically, which I guess doesn't have to mean scummy

The reason they Dunn and Keyser aren't included is because when I first joined the game I gave my analysis of them, then later on in the day when I had more time I included the rest. I probably should have reposted my thoughts on them with everyone.

As for my feeling on Robert, I've decided that I can't tell if he's town or scum and want to see more posted by him.

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Ok guys, you really don't want to do this. I am the doc this game. Now I know I will die either way tonight if not by your hand, then the mafia's, but I'd rather have that happen and get out one scum today.

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Also, I am not an alt.

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I am not new to mafia in the sense that I used to play most everyday with friends before school back in the day, but I a newbie in the sense of playing online in forum, and so far in every game I've participated in I have been one of the first to get lynched. Slow learning process on how to play right. On my reads on players, I mainly look at players individually and find holes in what they share and not so much on what other players are saying about them.

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If Ira were mafia, it would actually be an interesting move to fake claim a town role just to get me out. Ira knew that it might be him if not me hence the fake claim to really ensure they get rid of the town PR and thus having to sacrifice himself to the town lynch on next day after having mislynched a PR.

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Because Zach is still my number one vote, and I'm sticking by it. When I flip town, you'll go after ira soon enough.

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Sounds to me like an honest mistake, calling it a weak town role. Since he does claim it doesn't say weak in the pm, could be just his interpretation of it.

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Mod speak translation to English:

"Why does pain suffer
Why does silence cry"

"Consequences from entering a heart--" *hic*
"To somebody that doesn't love you"

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<(x_x<)

Dead Kirby in last attempts to give a hug.