Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Zulfy]

Llegó nuestro tiempo
Disfrutemos del momento

Votecount 1.05

Zachstralkita (L-4)

:xyzzy, JFSF, heuristically

iraonavp (L-4)

: Jaack, Tyler, bins

heuristically_alone

: floof

Dunnstral

:Zachstralkita,

Bins

: iraonavp

Jaack

: Toolenduso

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-06 16:00:00)

Note: No change from Votecount 1.03

[Dunnstral]

Zach you quoted post 164 way out of context, the only mistake I made was messing up the format of the unvote from my previous post. So you're just pushing on me without paying attention to what I'm doing..? Even better is I explain the thing you replied on in that very post so if you quoted that instead you wouldn't have anything to argue about. Also I already explained how he's scummy without association.

Nice "wall of text" but unfortunately it's so manipulated most of it's useless

Anyway you're either town who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about or mafia trying to manipulate things

at this point jaack and bins have basically switched places on the list.

Yep. So what's wrong with that?

vote:iraonavp

Hey bud that's a town you're voting for

It's not as all if you'd know. Unless you... know.

I'm less inclined to believe that jaack is mafia and would rather get bin

I'm less inclined to believe any of the townies' lives are significant to you in any event.

This is filler and there's nothing to respond to here

And you're not asking any vague questions directed at specific people (but not for a specific reason, only randomly) in this game because you don't want to get strung up.

You should have done that by default. We know you saw me as scum when you voted me, no one here believed you voted me because I'm your townread, am I? He didn't explain it like an astrophysicist, either.

I disagree. I'm under no obligation to explain something as soon as I vote.

So when do you want to explain it... not sure why you're being so difficult

Instead of going back and forth with me on this stupid shit, I'm surprised you didn't do the most logical thing and ask me to explain in more detail why I'm scum reading him.

I pretty much did...

Oh I missed that question. Can you link me to it so I can verify this isn't you just saying false things again?

You haven't explained how, why, or when you got this scumread

Now stop your babyrage and stop deflecting questions by calling me a liar

Oh and since we are talking. If you are town please Never do a list read again. Nobody should ever do them again. They rarely actually help town, they are a good way to fake content, and if enough people do them they give scum too much information.

Thanks.

I strongly disagree with this: I think read lists are a good way to show what you're thinking and to get other peoples opinions on things, it also shows what I'm thinking at the time so if I were mafia it would be harder to wiggle my reads around so to speak

[Dunnstral]

Vc

What's going on...? What's this Vc that keeps getting posted

[Dunnstral]

Anyway I think Zach is actually town and thinks I'm mafia because he thinks I'm acting different from another game

[Jake from State Farm]

Vc

What's going on...? What's this Vc that keeps getting posted

That means vote count. It's a page grab and a vote count will appear eventually

[Jake from State Farm]

So when do you want to explain it... not sure why you're being so difficult

Because I like being difficult. It gets people uncomfortable and things are more interesting when people are uncomfortable.

Now stop your babyrage and stop deflecting questions by calling me a liar

Did you forget this post?

Post 169 and 201 are where I do this. If that's not what you want and you want me to explain myself better all you had to do is ask. If you ask simple questions, I'm going to give you simple answers.

I strongly disagree with this: I think read lists are a good way to show what you're thinking and to get other peoples opinions on things, it also shows what I'm thinking at the time so if I were mafia it would be harder to wiggle my reads around so to speak

Well to be honest nobody asked you and there's better ways to convey what you are thinking without actually doing a reads list. The best way is to wait for somebody to ask you without volunteering in an attempt to make it look like you are providing content.

[iraonavp]

I don't think that is a good reason to think that Dunnstral is town-aligned. If I was using that metric to read Dunnstral I would invert it and call him scum-aligned for it, but I think the best thing to do is ignore it.

Huh? Why would I be scum-aligned and why would you be ignoring that?

No, I don't think you are scum-aligned. I am ignoring it because you are playing like this regardless of your alignment.

I think you are focusing excessively on this non-alignment-indicative aspect of Dunnstral's play because you are scum-aligned and your attempts to read players are fake.

VOTE: Bins

Something about this seems off to me, I think it's the fact that you voted keyser when I said I had a feeling he was maf earlier and are now following me again

Can be coincidence but it seems weird since you also seem to be focused on me for some reason

I didn't even know you were voting Bins as well, I don't care if you are or not.

[iraonavp]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

That vote

The WIFOM that pours through my veins is telling me

too-bad-to-be-scum

(i.e scum would at least sheep something meaty).

That's such a terrible attempt to discredit me.

I shouldn't have moved my vote away, I also think my reasoning for voting Bins was poorly elaborated and possibly partially imaginary.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I expect you to vote me later.

[iraonavp]

Yeah, definitely not joining the bins wagon now... while I think dunn's argument has merit, I'm NOT joining a wagon with ira and tool on it.

That's poor logic, you will end up with fragile and distant reads if you think like this.

[iraonavp]

Just the way he tries to continuously dismantle suspicion on himself by explaining himself very "Yep. This is how it is. Lmfao, back off now." (as you can see I have a Ph.D. in explaining)

VOTE: iraonavp
Voting someone who hasn't even talked

like the mafia

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

Robert2424 has talked, though.

This is so null but so not null at the same time if u kno what i mean

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

Not a fan of this post at all. Hesitant to vote on the first page? With literally the vaguest reason ever?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robert2424

More vague could be just saying that he's voting for "reasons", so that isn't true.

Like I mentioned b4 pointless dismantle
Like this is how you just ruin a point by mentioned something that isn't really relevant
"Like hey but he could have been MORE VAGUE so.............. ur wrong lets discount your post."

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

This is an aweful vote

What?

I'm town-aligned, but how are my posts dumb?

vote:iraonavp

Why are you voting for me?

I am town-aligned.

this is what I was saying as my first point

I think you are reading intentions into my posts that aren't really there. You should take what people say at face value.

[iraonavp]

ill bite, though, why's ira town?

and if it has anything to do with too scum to be scum then that's fine ive heard that before

and why vote a lurker? this game's slow enough as is.

I am town-aligned, people are just saying "too scum to be scum" when there is no "scum" to start with, and then you remove the fallacy to find the "scum" that never existed.

[iraonavp]

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

Not a fan of this post at all. Hesitant to vote on the first page? With literally the vaguest reason ever?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robert2424

More vague could be just saying that he's voting for "reasons", so that isn't true.

I get you're trying to be cheeky, but I don't understand why you're derailing his point.

I cannot answer this fairly because of the assumption that I am "derailing his point".

[iraonavp]

In all of Keyser Söze's posts, he is not suspecting anyone and constantly vacillating based on small things. Most of his posts are barely coherent and he is asking questions without answers.

[Jaack]

That's poor logic, you will end up with fragile and distant reads if you think like this.

How is this bad logic at all? If I think 2/3 players on a wagon are scum, why would I support that wagon?

Why to you keep saying that you're town? How is that going to convince anyone?

Why do you always nitpick about minor wordings and other junk as opposed to arguing against, you know, the meaning of the post?

Why are you so obviously scum?

[iraonavp]

That's poor logic, you will end up with fragile and distant reads if you think like this.

How is this bad logic at all? If I think 2/3 players on a wagon are scum, why would I support that wagon?

You should support that wagon if you thought that the wagoned player was scum-aligned, independent of the alignment of those on the wagon. Otherwise, you will base your reads on a player off your hesitant reads on another player and confbias every vote into further evidence against me.

Why to you keep saying that you're town? How is that going to convince anyone?

Perhaps subliminally, but I keep saying that because it reminds me that it is true.

Why do you always nitpick about minor wordings and other junk as opposed to arguing against, you know, the meaning of the post?

Why are you so obviously scum?

I cannot answer any of these questions because they have false or misrepresentative premises.

[heuristically_alone]

@Zach, are you mafia?

[Dunnstral]

This turned into a crazy weekend. Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!

[Dunnstral]

Want to share your thoughts on the game so far?

[heuristically_alone]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Because literally every post he has made has been completely useless. Up to this point, he had only joined in post 55 voting Jack as mafia (a surprisingly large amount of people immediately read Jack as mafia or town based off of his simple post 13)

Then immediately in posts 56-58 and 79-81 just quotes what others are saying and maybe asks follow up questions without literally given up anything original on his own. The only other posts he has made are 204-206 and 222, all of which he does the exact same thing. Just quoting others and giving a quick comment, but absolutely saying nothing original or doing nothing to help the game. 205 unvotes Jack, but that's that.

@Dunnstral has been by far the most entertaining player for me to follow in this game so far. As for liking him, makes me want him to be town. Best proof I have of you being town is your response to post 34 by xyzzy.

Dunnsrtal, can you offer any explanation for your behavior in this game so far?

Probably not

It was quite answered in a joking manner, but I think a mafia would have tried to give a more in depth explanation to his process in attempts to conceal himself.

[heuristically_alone]

My reading on Iraonavp

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Mafia can't be this dumb, this guys town

What?

I'm town-aligned, but how are my posts dumb?

I think that voting the largest wagon is a good way to conduct RVS.

I voted Keyser because I found him suspicious? I don't see what's comical about that.

To take it one step further, a good mafia would have taken that town reading "That's right, that was a dumb vote. Well at least you know I'm town!" (not that a mafia would write that out haha)
Because Iraonavp fought back a little defending his reasons is why I think he is town.

[Bins]

could he be a bad mafia

[heuristically_alone]

vote:iraonavp

HEY ANOTHER ONTARIO SCUMMER

Just want to uselessly point out that I don't think Floof and Bins are scum together, because mafia have day talk, so I think Bins would have noticed Floof being from Ontario in the scum forum first.

[heuristically_alone]

don't know why I had that post 109 quoted.....ignore it. Must have accidentally clicked Q+ at some point

[toolenduso]

OK I tried looking back on the game I played with ira where he was scum, but pretty much decided it wouldn't be all that useful. Turns out he'd only just joined the site like a week or two before that game started. Also the circumstances were pretty different early on in that game -- we had a townie fakeclaiming jailkeeper by page four. Whereas we're 11 pages into this game and still haven't really run anybody up.

Gonna do some more work on this game now; wanted to note a couple things about mafia theory first. I disagree that readslists are useless/bad. I use them to organize my thoughts and help people understand where I'm coming from. They're how I hold myself accountable for making sure I don't get lazy and scumhunt based off of bullshit, basically. I also feel that they play, in some small way, a role in keeping the game civil.

I also think it's valid to assess wagons based on who's on them -- actually, it's probably more accurate than a lot of other scumhunting tactics people use. I let myself join wagons in the past year or so where I thought the people on those wagons looked scummy, and they often wound up being mislynches. I'd convinced myself that it was worth it because the wagon's target looked scummy, and I was wrong.

[Zachstralkita]

@Zach, are you mafia?

No. Though I'm not sure what answer you're expecting. I'd love to fuck with you all for a little bit but I can't really do that.