Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Dunnstral]

Wait what, robert is actually getting scumread for

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

???

[Zulfy]

Baby, nos vamos hasta que el sol salga
Yo se, que esta noche tu te atreves

Votecount 1.02

Robert2424 (L-5)

: JFSF, iraonavp

Jaack (L-5)

: xyzzy, Keyser

iraonavp (L-5)

: Jaack, toolenduso

Jake From State Farm

: Zachstralkita

Dunnstral

: Bins

xyzzy

: Tyler

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-05-06 16:00:00)

[Zachstralkita]

UNVOTE: Jake FROM STATE FARM

[Dunnstral]

Oh yea now we've got that reverse bandwagon where everyone says they townread me to blend in instead

Bins

Why a townread on Bins?

Just a feeling right now;

I've also got a townread on tyler right now for looking at xyzzy

I'm pretty sure Dunnstral is not being "serious" - you're not feeling/seeing that care-free sarcastic vibe?

I do now, yeah. It's become more clear. At the time my thought was that the posts were either jokes or baiting.

Dunn's become a townlean.

@Dunn that's white privilege at it's finest buddy how do you feel being an undertone of oppression?

???

meh, i don't know why but i expected you to have some kinda soul read on zach by now cuz my impression is you've played a lot together but that's fair
i wanna say town but it's completely gut

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense
bonus points because i thought robert's entrance was awkward too

it'd be cool to know why out of everyone he thought jake was the most untrustworthy before i go more into it this though

Nah definitely going to need more time on Zach here, also I think jaack was the awkward one there

my question in 34 was because Dunnstral had a few specific choices early on that showed a deliberate pattern—for one, there was the "this isn't an rvs vote" wording, which obviously means something, even if it's not possible yet to tell you it means. the "interesting" behavior I noted in 42 could go either way, depending on what else Dunnstral does today.

>vague on what's "interesting" so you can decide later or just ignore it
>got hung up over the "this isn't an rvs vote" line
>openly telling me what post you'll be watching me from

[Keyser Söze]

also keyser, did you not find it notable that im leaning town on jaack for about the same reason you're voting him?

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense

Yea, not feeling the "town vibes", but if you could explain the "flippancy" part a bit more, cheers - are you in effect saying

'the vote is too bad to be scum'?

bonus points because i thought robert's entrance was awkward too

I thought Robert2424's intro post was neither town/scum - it was a non-post (null).

[Keyser Söze]

I DO have a problem with making what appears to be a serious post, indicating suspicion, without voting, particularly at the very beginning of the game when there is very little risk. Being wishy-washy with votes coming out of RVS seems overly cautious. It's offering an opinion without justification or commitment. The feels a bit scummy to me.

I would like to hear why robert singled out Jake as someone not to trust.

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

[Keyser Söze]

I did find it interesting that multiple players (xyzzy, tool, bins) all focused their early efforts on dunn.

I think there is scum in there looking for an easy mislynch

.

I actually like/see this scum-narrative regarding the early attention on Dunnstral's

playstyle

.

Jaack's opening posts have been jumpy but they have been open/direct thoughts (I'm thinking more

paranoid-townie

, less reachy-scum now).

@xyzzy

I want/need to see what is fueling your suspicions. Re-reading your answer to my question (post 59), I do not feel I like gauged

what you were seeing

- I think you were scared of actually answering the question truthfully/openly (

"the best way for me to avoid mistakes that would be harmful to the town is to not immediately trust that my own instincts are perfect right out of the gate."

). There is no

correct or mistake

/

right or wrong

on D1.

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

[Keyser Söze]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia

but don't have anything to back that up

[Zachstralkita]

I'm pretty sure Dunnstral is not being "serious" - you're not feeling/seeing that care-free sarcastic vibe?

I do now, yeah. It's become more clear. At the time my thought was that the posts were either jokes or baiting.

Dunn's become a townlean.

@Dunn that's white privilege at it's finest buddy how do you feel being an undertone of oppression?

???

Listen it's by default, don't worry about it.

[Dunnstral]

Any time you want to start looking for mafia that would be nice, the earlier the better I say

[Dunnstral]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia

but don't have anything to back that up

[Zachstralkita]

Any time you want to start looking for mafia that would be nice, the earlier the better I say

Yeah, seeing as your efforts in that regard have proven so useful to us.

[Jaack]

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

And I still don't think that Robert's post was an RVS post. I mean you may be right, but it seems serious to me. Not that it really matters because when Robert comes back he can write it off as RVS either way.

[xyzzy]

here are some thoughts going through the thread post by post:

4: basically my thoughts on the "this isn't an rvs vote" line are that they're either 1)a deliberate pattern that serves some purpose unknown to the rest of us or 2)a totally meaningless thing that has no intent behind it. the former seems like slight scum behavior whereas the latter would be very slight town behavior.

12: I'm getting town vibes from this--not voting during RVS isn't inherently bad, and there's at least enough content to this post to generate discussion. doing things that generate discussion early on is good and pro-town, and that's what this post does.

29: this is a good post and I feel good about iraonavp.

34: I can't believe I misspelled "Dunnstral". anyway, this was basically an attempt to ask Dunnstral whether his posts had any specific meaning without going too far into detail about what things I think that meaning might be.

38: I don't agree with the sentiment that someone's comfort level can function as a tell with any real level of precision; there are probably just as many people who do exactly the opposite as scum.

40: this was me trying to ask the same question as #34 but in a more specific manner, seeking a specific answer.

41: not directly answering a question like this feels like it could be a sign that you're trying to avoid any really specific discussion, which would be bad. on the other hand, the fact that your reply was just 3 minutes after my post is a good sign; that seems to point away from the idea that you might be acting super deliberately at this point. I think after giving it more thought I feel like this is probably a town read (although that's also influenced by stuff from later in the thread, I guess, but whatever)

46: I don't like having a vote with the implication that there's meaning behind it without going into that reasoning at all; that said, Tyler's post #50 is substantial enough that I'm fine with the lowish level of detail here.

55: this post says some worthwhile things, but I'm not sure how to feel about Keyser overall yet. also, nice gifs.

59: this post is really incoherent, but that's my cat's fault for waking me up at 4:30 am.

62: this is a good post and I trust Tyler so far.

66: I don't particularly agree with you regarding your original vote, but I like the reasoning you give for it here.

70: this is the first post from Zachstralkita that I think actually says anything significant; the rest of his posts before this one have a really low signal:noise ratio.

77: why the unvote?

81: I think I answered your question here substantially enough earlier in this post, so I'm just acknowledging your line of questioning here.

87: you're one to talk; I'd say Dunnstral is one of the better players in this regard.

---

Tyler is the player I'm getting the strongest town vibes from. Dunnstral, if your opinion of Keyser changes at any point, I'm definitely interested in knowing that. Zachstralkita has managed to talk a lot while saying very little, and I really don't like that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zachstralkita

[Zachstralkita]

He's V/LA, he won't be doing any talking. Should have gone without saying. I knee beforehand I would get scumread following the same train of thought that was being used on... Robert? i think?

xyzz you don't get the dynamic i have with dunnstral but it doesn't bother me what really bothers me is when fuckers in the barbershop always saying chief keef aint bout this chief keef ain't bout that mY BOy a BD oN FUcKIN LAmRon aND tHEM HE HE

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Jaack

You should be embarrassed to be such obvious mafia.

I'm here, just barely. I'd vote for Jake, cause I don't trust him, but I'm leaving town in a few hours.....

Not a fan of this post at all. Hesitant to vote on the first page? With literally the vaguest reason ever?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robert2424

More vague could be just saying that he's voting for "reasons", so that isn't true.

Well maybe not LITERALLLY the most vague but completely useless either way. It doesn't seem to be rvs but it does nothing to help.

This feels a bit jumpy -

"vague"/weak is ok, it's early Day 1/RVS

. Choosing to vote/not vote with your opening post is

meh

(non-alignment indicative).
VOTE: Jaack

I don't have a problem with vague silliness in RVS/page one. I also don't have a problem with not voting page one.

I DO have a problem with making what appears to be a serious post, indicating suspicion, without voting, particularly at the very beginning of the game when there is very little risk. Being wishy-washy with votes coming out of RVS seems overly cautious. It's offering an opinion without justification or commitment. The feels a bit scummy to me.

I would like to hear why robert singled out Jake as someone not to trust.


In other news, Tyler and Keyser both seem pretty town. Initially I though Dunn looked like a vi, thought they have improved contentwise and also look towny.

I will agree that xyzzy's questions in 34 and 40 are bit awkward, although Dunn did seem a bit trollish at the time. Could be scum trying to trap a VI or could be town trying to deal with a loose cannon. Would like to here more about the purpose of those questions from xyzzy.

Retrospectively, don't really like ira's 29. He seems to be taking an issue with my phrasing as opposed to my assertion. Furthermore, he had voted for Robert right after I had.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: iraonavp

I have a question for you, actually -- have your thoughts on Robert changed?

Nope, still don't like that post. But I find that ira post to be just about as bad, and ira, by virtue of not being vla, is a little more useful place to put my vote right now.

What do you think of Robert?

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

And I still don't think that Robert's post was an RVS post. I mean you may be right, but it seems serious to me. Not that it really matters because when Robert comes back he can write it off as RVS either way.

All of this is Jaack pushing on robert for

basically no reason.

The fact that he just continues on about it was very telling to me. It actually makes me suspect that this is a

possible bus

between two mafia, though it's also possible that it's just Jaack as mafia pushing on a townie who can't fight back. There's also more:

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

You like to play aggressively? Remember when I said: "Oh yea now we've got that reverse bandwagon where everyone says they townread me to blend in instead"
Well i wasn't kidding about that, and you fit in with that bandwagon image perfectly, since you said you like to play aggressively but have actually been low-key buddying up to me all game:

VOTE: heuristically_alone

This isn't an rvs vote, this is an actual read and its' not changing for the rest of the day

I agree with this. Every post h_a has in this game so far has reeked of scum.

VOTE: heuristically_alone

In other news, Tyler and Keyser both seem pretty town. Initially I though Dunn looked like a vi, thought they have improved contentwise and also look towny.

I will agree that xyzzy's questions in 34 and 40 are bit awkward, although Dunn did seem a bit trollish at the time. Could be scum trying to trap a VI or could be town trying to deal with a loose cannon. Would like to here more about the purpose of those questions from xyzzy.




@zach - top scum read?

If it's Dunn then give me your top town read instead.

@Jaack It's really early. I'll speak on Dunn later, but I'll say if you start townreading him so easily then I am amused. Hahahahahahahah. I do like how Tyler is approaching things, though.

Could you explain your Tyler read a little more?

As for Dunn I don't exactly see anything that looks scum motivated. Trolly, sure but not particularly scummy.

I did find it interesting that multiple players (xyzzy, tool, bins) all focused their early efforts on dunn. I think there is scum in there looking for an easy mislynch.

Town read on dunn is weak, but I'm not seeing anything to change my mind on it.

The bolded part in particular felt out of place. With all of this I'm pretty confident in Jaack being mafia with robert looking scummy by association (even though he hasn't done anything)

[Dunnstral]

also keyser, did you not find it notable that im leaning town on jaack for about the same reason you're voting him?

actually got some townvibes from jaack's 13 - i mean yea if robert is legit going vla then voting him for not voting isn't great - but i think the flippancy there feels town if that makes sense

Yea, not feeling the "town vibes", but if you could explain the "flippancy" part a bit more, cheers - are you in effect saying

'the vote is too bad to be scum'?

I'm interested in these too because I can't relate to a townread on jaack here, though I definitely felt as if you (tyler) were town

Tyler is the player I'm getting the strongest town vibes from. Dunnstral, if your opinion of Keyser changes at any point, I'm definitely interested in knowing that. Zachstralkita has managed to talk a lot while saying very little, and I really don't like that.

All I got from Keyser is that he wouldn't react from slight provocation like what I did (though I was actually serious) and that nobody immediately jumped in to "save him" (granted I didn't wait long but...)

[Jaack]

@Dunn

I haven't exactly been pushing super hard on robert. I didn't like the one post he's made and voted him for it. I've explained my thoughts on it whenever someone has questioned it. I get that pretty much no one is agreeing with me (aside from kind of Tyler I guess) but that doesn't mean I still don't find the post in question somewhat scummy.

But I'm not even voting for Robert right now anyway.

As for me "buddying" you, you listed an RVS post and two posts where I called you town. And apparently I wasn't aggressive enough towards you earlier. I wasn't aggressive with you early game because I didn't find your posts serious. Furthermore, there was little reason to engage you when everyone else already was.

As for the bolded thing in post 66 (your bold, not mine) I added it because I was interested on getting Zach to comment on a player who wasn't you, as the majority of his content to that point was about you.

[Zachstralkita]

Blatant scum. Are you kidding me?

VOTE: Dunnstral

[iraonavp]

Retrospectively, don't really like ira's 29. He seems to be taking an issue with my phrasing as opposed to my assertion. Furthermore, he had voted for Robert right after I had.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: iraonavp

What was the purpose of post 29? And could you explain your Robert vote in 21?

I do take issue with your assertion, I just didn't say that.

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

[iraonavp]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

[iraonavp]

OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.

"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"

? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.

I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.

And I still don't think that Robert's post was an RVS post. I mean you may be right, but it seems serious to me. Not that it really matters because when Robert comes back he can write it off as RVS either way.

Why does it matter whether or not his post is RVS?

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

I haven't exactly been pushing super hard on robert. I didn't like the one post he's made and voted him for it. I've explained my thoughts on it whenever someone has questioned it. I get that pretty much no one is agreeing with me (aside from kind of Tyler I guess) but that doesn't mean I still don't find the post in question somewhat scummy.

But I'm not even voting for Robert right now anyway.

As for me "buddying" you, you listed an RVS post and two posts where I called you town. And apparently I wasn't aggressive enough towards you earlier. I wasn't aggressive with you early game because I didn't find your posts serious. Furthermore, there was little reason to engage you when everyone else already was.

As for the bolded thing in post 66 (your bold, not mine) I added it because I was interested on getting Zach to comment on a player who wasn't you, as the majority of his content to that point was about you.

Fair points but I still think you were pushing on robert for way too long without a real reason - I thought his post was null and purely letting us know that he was going on vla but you somehow spinned it into something scummy

I voted for Robert because he was the largest wagon.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Keyser is mafia but don't have anything to back that up

Same.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

LOL ok bud

Blatant scum. Are you kidding me?

VOTE: Dunnstral

??? I guess you didn't like me pushing on Jaack

[Dunnstral]

I ruined that quote thing, post 66 iraonavp, the rest is me talking