New Normal Guidelines - April 2017 update!
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Davsto He/HimFarce of Habit
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
- Farce of Habit
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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But... isn't a Cop exactly the same? Everyone knows that Millers and Godfathers exist. It always has had some potential false positives and negatives. I don't see how it functions any differently besides the false positives and negatives falling on different roles.In post 314, callforjudgement wrote:The whole point of Gunsmith is that it has potential false positives and false negatives, in a way that can be predicted / isn't bastard. So I guess it'd make more sense to blacklist Gunsmith if you're worried about that.
Really, Gunsmith is basically a Normalized version of an imperfectly-sane cop who knows that there are ways they can be mislead.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Did you miss the part where I saidIn post 315, chilledtea wrote:If there is mafia doc, then there should be a killing force capable of killing mafia. In that case, town can take enough precautions wrt gunsmith's results.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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It should be allowed when the Mafia Doc has a function, such as protecting from a vigilante/sk. This generally provides a superbig hint that it does exist in the setup, particularly if a kill fails to go through and there is no reason given by town players.
I'm not saying any good setup maker would use a Mafia Doc when there is no vigilante but there is a gunsmith.
I'm merely pointing out a potential loophole that should be closed, and not in an unofficial "oh the NRG will stop that" kind of way, I mean an actual definitive rule.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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A Gunsmith is a Cop that gets false guilities and innocents on slightly different roles from cops. Sure, "technically" it checks to see if they have a gun, but in gunsmith setups they are basically always used as an alignment investigative. Sure, there are the false results, but there are false results with Cops too, albeit in a slightly different fashion.
Now, I'm fine with a Gunsmith setup with false guilties and innocents, over a Cop setup really because they're a lot more predictable and can be proven or disproved. For example there is no way of proving a Miller claim besides Role Cop, but you can prove a vigilante through the second death. Meanwhile on the false innocent side, through (to give an example) a vigilante shot disappearing with no idea where it went, the players can accurately guess at the existence of a Mafia Doctor.
The kind of stuff I'm talking about is (at a bare bones level):
6 VT, 1 Cop, 1 Goon, 1 Godfather
6 VT, 1 Gunsmith, 1 Goon, 1 Mafia Doctor
Besides the Mafia Doctor's "protect" (which isentirelyfunctionless in this setup), those setups are identical, yet only one of them is blacklisted.
My problem I see is that, if not regulated, people who want to make an investigative-based setup where the investigative can get false innocents (which Cop no longer can with Godfather dead) can make a setup around a Gunsmith which is entirely functionally identical to a blacklisted-due-to-godfather setup with a Cop.
I'm not saying outright blacklist Gunsmiths, or Maf Docs, I'm just saying that this seems like a loophole which could be abused with little effort to get around the Godfather blacklisting, and a large part of me would be happier in Normal games if this was something that was explicitly stated as not allowed.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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