Open 28 - Quack Mafia. OVER! But who won? before 466

[curiouskarmadog]

that should be the hammer

[Aimee]

Final Vote Count!

JDodge (5) -- somestrangeflea, curiouskarmadog, mneme, Stewie, Dasquian

somestrangeflea (1) -- Tarhalindur
curiouskarmadog (1) -- JDodge

Not Voting (1) -- JordanA24

[Aimee]

You all have decided to string up JDodge, after he adamantly advocated that the town didn't lynch anyone that day. Instead, they decided to lynch him instead.

After his rather grotesque death, you search his body. To your horror you find needles, and you find his medicine practioner papers.

JDodge (Doctor) - Lynched Day 2

It is now Night 2. Deadline for night-choices is Monday 9th October.

[Aimee]

Oops! Since Monday is actually the 8th, I am giving until

Tuesday October 9

for nightchoices.

[Aimee]

You wake up solemnly - everyone knows things are getting bad.

Sure enough, viciously killed next to the grocery store was somestrangeflea. His attackers had obviously been merciless.

A quick inspection reveals that he had his medical practioner certificate and his needles. He was a doctor.

somestrangeflea (Doctor) - Killed Night 2

After the chaos had subsided, everyone stood together.

"So," Tarhalindur said, "shall we try and actually kill a scum today?"

There was an awkward silence.

"Actually," Stewie said, with a hint of malice, "we had something different in mind."

"Yeah," agreed mneme, "we're fed up of trying to lynch mafia. Let's keep getting townies instead."

Tarhalindur, JordanA24 and curiouskarmadog looked at each other nervously. It seemed now that the Mafia really had overtaken the town.

Tarhalindur (Doctor) - Endgamed
JordanA24 (Doctor) - Endgamed
curiouskarmadog (Doctor) - Endgamed

Mafia (Stewie, mneme, dasquian) wins!

[Tarhalindur]

<.<
>.>

... I was totally wrong about this game. GG, scum, I wouldn't have thought to lynch you even if the game had gone on (except maybe mneme, but he was only #3 on my scumlist).

Quacks were myself, Jordan, and Dral/d3sisted, right?

[Dasquian]

That's what we made it, yep.

Good game everyone, I would've liked to have gotten into it sooner. What

was

your no lynch plan, JDodge? I was vaguely worried you were going to pull something out of the hat, but you backed yourself into a corner.

Thanks Aimee!

[Hjallti]

Who got nightkilled by scum (and why) and who was wrongly protected?

[Dasquian]

My records were:

N0:

Mafia - kill JordanA24 - FAIL (protected by Hjallti and maybe also Fernando)

curiouskarmadog - Doctor - No one
Stewie (replacing theopor_COD) - Scum - "JordanA24"
JordanA24 - Quack - Mert
Tarhalindur (replacing Indy) - Quack - curiouskarmadog
somestrangeflea (replacing Mert) - Doctor - curiouskarmadog
JDodge - Doctor - Mert
mneme (replacing Roach, Battle Mage) - Scum - "Mert"
Dasquian (replacing Honary Hitchhiker, scmp, ControlledBurn) - Scum - "Hjallti"
FeRnAnDo - Doctor - We'll never know
d3sisted (replacing Ms Piggy, Dral) - Quack - Fernando
Vel-Rahn Koon (replacing ~N9V~, AmeliaLi) - Doctor - JDodge
Hjallti - Doctor - JordanA24

N1:

Mafia - NO CHOICE - FAIL

curiouskarmadog - Doctor - JDodge
Stewie (replacing theopor_COD) - Scum - "JordanA24"
JordanA24 - Quack - Vel-Rahn Koon
Tarhalindur (replacing Indy) - Quack - Hjallti
somestrangeflea (replacing Mert) - Doctor - JDodge
JDodge - Doctor - somestrangefleas
mneme (replacing Roach, Battle Mage) - Scum - "No one"
Dasquian (replacing Honary Hitchhiker, scmp, ControlledBurn) - Scum - "somestrangeflea"
Vel-Rahn Koon (replacing ~N9V~, AmeliaLi) - Doctor - We'll never know
Hjallti - Doctor - We'll never know


From Day 1's claims, we were able to deduce that you were a real doctor (only you and theopor_COD claimed to protect Jordan, and we knew theopor was lying), so you got the axe. Second night I guess was when replacements came to a head, because the nightkill was totally fumbled and missed. As it turned out, that only added more confusion.

[Dasquian]

Actually what am I talking about. I have no idea why Jordan was targetted N0 (random, I guess), and Hjallti, you were

going

to be targetted for the reasons above, but it was that kill that got missed.

N2 we killed somestrangeflea because we knew he and ckd were the only real docs, and it seemed like the safest bet.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I protected Tarhalindur Night 1, so I had to be a regular Doc. Too bad I got NKd

GG scum, and I have to say that after the argument between JD and CKD on Day 2, both of them had to be town. That's the way that always works

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Aimee, please post the night action list for us. I know I'd like to see what happened behind the scenes.

[Hjallti]

Mafia - kill JordanA24 - FAIL (protected by Hjallti and maybe also Fernando)

So mafia knew I was doctor from the very first night. This means that I was right during day 1 to say we (town) should claim protections later than day 1. In the very first days mafia was able to puzzle much better than town. After day 3 the puzzle should have been solvable for both. The only problem was that the puzzle got more difficult with more missing info. But we would have had more docs around.

You were lucky a qucak did your work. If you would have NK night 1 you would have been unlucky a quack made the same move.

At night 2 I protected Stewie.

[curiouskarmadog]

just as well, I knew I would be lynched today after Jdodge and d3sisted. They both played poorly, but I lead the lynch on them both days...I figured Tar was scum and had a feeling SSF/mert (but he was town)...ugh I didnt have a clue this game....

I protected stewie last night (see no clue)

this set up was really stacked against the town...I think it might have helped if we at least knew if the dead were quacks or not.

[curiouskarmadog]

also Aimee can you post what the roles were, I am still not sure.

[Simenon]

The setup

is

balanced, damnit.

[Aimee]

Here were the nightchoices:

The quacks were indeed Tarhalindur, Jordan and d3sisted/Dral

Night 0

Mafia targets JordanA24 (fails)
JordanA24 targets Mert/SSF (fails)
Indy/Tar targets CKD (fails)
Dral/d3sisted targets Fernando (succeeds)

AmeliaLi/VKR protects JDodge
CKD protects no one
Fernando protects Dral/d3sisted
Hjallti protects Jordan
Mert/SSF protects CKD
JDodge protects Mert/SSF

Night 1

Mafia targets nobody
Jordan targets VKR (succeeds)
Tar targets Hjallti (succeeds)

VKR protects Tar
CKD protects JDodge
Hjallti protects Stewie
SSF protects JDodge
JDodge protects SSF

Night 2

Mafia targets SSF (succeeds)
Tar targets SSF (succeeds)
Jordan targets nobody

CKD protects Stewie
SSF protects mneme

---

The game was balanced, definitely. The only thing I would probably change is I would start with a Day Start.

Town lost out most due to inactivity, since basically everyone had to be replaced. That said, the Mafia lost out too - all the Mafia were replaced several times. Further, on Night 1 if they had targetted Hjallti, the town would have been in lylo. This was quite a costly scum mistake.

Hope everyone joins me for my new games coming up (a large normal and a mini theme), and thanks for playing and (hopefully) enjoying!

[mneme]

With the way the quacks work, I'm not sure the town -isn't- better off just playing as newb; the reward of getting a bunch of doctors cross-protecting, but it does seem like the town's going to lose a bunch of people doing it. The theory I was propounding on day 2 was sound (if you don't -know- you're a doctor, don't target; question of odds of lynch vs no-lynch and lylo next day); note that the Mafia, as it turned out, could have missed our kill again and still won (because while Jordan had figured out he was a Quack, Tar hadn't).

The setup -was- balanced; a vanilla with 9 town to 3 mafia is pretty balanced, and this is better than that, since the town does have powers. But I'm not convinced it's balanced with the strategy actually taken (ie, protect every night until you find out your flavor), as the reward isn't quite worth the gain, by my analysis. If flavor was revealed on death, it would be, I think, since you'd know how many dead quacks/docs there were, but without that, you don't really get to catch scum with all the kills (at best, you narrow things down a bit), and you do the mafia's work for them.

[Tarhalindur]

I had figured out that I was a quack, but I was almost certain that SSF was scum, so...

Yeah, as I said, I couldn't have figured out the real scum in this game in a million years.

[Tarhalindur]

If I was going to run this setup, I would probably decrease the number of Mafia by 1 (Mountainous games are traditionally 10 town - 2 scum, and no Town that I know of has won a mountainous game.)

[mneme]

Tar: er. If you'd figured out you were a quack, why target? To act as a "kill cop?" The problem is, the town was at single death loss numbers, so that was perhaps not ideal; if you were wrong, the town lost (as it was, we lost anyway, but that wasn't true if we didn't lure the real doc protects away from the town).

Good Game! (even if I did replace into it late).

[Hjallti]

That said, the Mafia lost out too - all the Mafia were replaced several times. Further, on Night 1 if they had targetted Hjallti, the town would have been in lylo. This was quite a costly scum mistake

It should have been a mistake, but it wasn't because I was killed anyway.

I believe the game is balanced like it is, but that the balance can be (and was in this particular game) shifted to scum by accident very easily. I mean scum can win without playing well (outsmarting town) easy if the nightchoices fall good. Like the fact exactly one doc manages to target the same player as the scum night 0 is almost as good as killing a doc night 0, just for the information.

[Battle Mage]

Actually what am I talking about. I have no idea why Jordan was targetted N0 (random, I guess), and Hjallti, you were

going

to be targetted for the reasons above, but it was that kill that got missed.

N2 we killed somestrangeflea because we knew he and ckd were the only real docs, and it seemed like the safest bet.

Actually we took a pop at Jordan on Night 0 because he was one of 3 people we didn't want to have to face during the day. We felt that whilst he was a very good player, there was a reasonable chance that he wouldnt have been protected, as he was fairly under-rated at the time.
We were wrong i guess. lol

Good win by the scum. I'd like to say i helped, but as i'm not scum anymore, i don't feel obliged to lie. Still i guess as the guy who replaced me managed to survive, i cant have done that abysmally. :p

BM

[Hjallti]

I had figured out that I was a quack, but I was almost certain that SSF was scum, so...

even then you shouldn't have targeted as scum survives quack protection.

@BattleMage, I protected Jordan because I saw a game of him I found his playstyle a bit different than other players. I do think that it actually gave you enough information to be worth a miskill... If we didn't claim first day, it might have been different. I agree we didn't have the best strategy as town, but you have together. You can't have 6 players claiming and then say you don't want to claim, I guess...

[curiouskarmadog]

so question, does providing who we "protected" help or hurt us? So knowing at death if someone was a quack or not would make the game unbalanced?