Mini 1772 ~ Game Over

[Postie]

VOTE: Frozen Angel

Because she'll be calling for my policy lynch right about now.

[Postie]

Wow a bunch of scummy trolls this game lol.

BlueTrin

's posts are meh.

VOTE: BlueTrin

Lovelygiant

, do you think GuyFawkes is scum or do you think he is trolling?

Creature

, is 48 OMGUS or are you still in RVS?

Almost50

, lets hope we get to play a while together this game. And I don't think you are crazy, because your catchup post in Open 626 was quiet insightful.

Postie

, what do you think about BlueTrin and Lovelygiant?

Chilledtea

, I need more than that to vote Creature, because its posts are troll posts at best.

GuyFawkes

, I knew a player named Guyett and it was a pain to work along with him, because I thought he was indeed a jester irl (probably his real life passion). Can you tell me if you are trolling or not?

Lowell

, I sense the same thing, too stuck up in his mindset wrt the setup. Will come back to this in a bit.

PEdit: Sweet!

Yeah okay seriously what is this post

VOTE: Gale Wing Srock

[Postie]

GuyFawkes just got serious after my post.

His sudden change from being casual to being serious is actually making me second guess my read on him. I haven't seen a townie change their play so quickly when pointed out.

I'm not sure I see this "sudden change" you're talking about.

[Postie]

Postie

, you ignored my question for you. Whats up?

I'll answer your question if you can tell me what you're hoping to gain from my answer.

Regarding GuyFawkes, I just got a weird tinge from 58 during my reread.

Oh, fair enough. Still don't see it though.

[Postie]

Postie

, I want to understand if my read on BlueTrin and Lovelygiant is something that matches yours or not. Makes me read the players better that way.

Well, the tone of BlueTrin's posts makes me uneasy, but it might be that he just always talks that way so ehh (I'll go take a look at some of his past games later when I'm not phone posting). Not sure on lovelygiant either, but I think I have gut townlean.
Why did you want to know about these two specifically and why did you choose to ask me about them over any other player?

GWS is probably town for ending RVS

Why?

[Postie]

Postie's 75 feels theatrical if all that she needed to hear was "I want to know if my reads match yours" to answer. Her 91 still strikes me as slightly theatrical but the questions are more legitimate.

I just didn't want to be a dick by saying "I'll answer your questions if you do X" and then not following through but I can see where you're coming from.

[Postie]

Regarding my activity or my playstyle, this is how I usually play so Idk what you guys are seeing scummy in this. Trying hard is what I usually do (because I play one or two games at a time), and I am all for working together.

I'm not seeing it as scummy; it's mostly a null thing. For now, I just want some pressure on you to help me sort you. I'll go into it more later.

[Postie]

Actually, I think with how active GWS is, if GWS is scum the scum vibes should start coming through on their own. From what I remember from the one game I played with GWS, he seemed pretty obvtown even if he was a touch superficial and try-hard. Like it's hard to explain but his thoughts always seemed very natural and unfiltered and flowed with the thread and I think he would have a hard time replicating that as scum.

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

I like FA for town. Mostly. And dislike that guy (I forget who) who felt the need to give a treatise on why he doesn't like RVS. Dumb.

Can you go into more details on this?

[Postie]

I didn't like this post from Postie:

Postie

, you ignored my question for you. Whats up?

I'll answer your question if you can tell me what you're hoping to gain from my answer.

Why would he need to know what you hope to gain ?

Because the question was superficial, so I wanted to know whether there was some kind of town thought process or mindset behind it or whether GWS was just trying to look busy.

[Postie]

Well it's a bit early for a question like that, but if I had to shoot someone right this second it would be Terminator, because I can't sort someone who isn't posting.

[Postie]

Part of the reason Guy was a town lean for me earlier was his hint at being our Vig, but I constantly tried to double check myself to be sure about that, and now I don't think he is.

Please don't say things like this.

[Postie]

Actually, I think with how active GWS is, if GWS is scum

the scum vibes should start coming through on their own

. From what I remember from the one game I played with GWS, he seemed pretty obvtown even if he was a touch superficial and try-hard. Like it's hard to explain but his thoughts always seemed very natural and unfiltered and flowed with the thread and I think he would have a hard time replicating that as scum.

UNVOTE:

so you weren't getting any scum vibes from her before this?

No, I thought GWS' behaviour was mostly NIA and still do, but I figured it was something I could pressure GWS about to get a better read on him.

Well it's a bit early for a question like that, but if I had to shoot someone right this second it would be Terminator, because I can't sort someone who isn't posting.

even he was on the edge of replacing ?

Ehh, probably didn't think it through properly; I figured it'd be best to shoot lurkers and he was the lurkiest lurker. But you're right, yeah, it would be a bad idea to shoot someone about to be replaced. I guess the next best candidate would be... pistachi0n?

chilled is town.

Reasoning?

Also

I like FA for town. Mostly. And dislike that guy (I forget who) who felt the need to give a treatise on why he doesn't like RVS. Dumb.

Can you go into more details on this?

[Postie]

120 : Oh man. Serious scum vibes from pista post.

FOS : pistachi0n

Dierfire seems town in 142.

Any chance you could explain these two things in a bit more detail?

[Postie]

If GWS is town he is doing a good job of distracting town.

[Postie]

Okay, well I was pressuring Postie for lurking, but her cautious reactions are actually making me suspect something other than scummy. The plethora of PRs this game and the one line posts from certain people is making me think that they can be town PRs.

OH MY GOD
STOP

[Postie]

I've only played one game with him before and I don't remember him being quite

this

excitable. I'm reading through the game he linked on the previous page right now though and trying to go through some other past games.
So far, I feel like his thoughts usually seem a little more... straight forward? I mean they're still rambly and a bit incoherent, but this game they seem to be just absolutely all over the place and less focused. Could be paranoid town, but I think I'm starting to lean more towards scum on him. It's just... ugh. Anyone else have past experience with GWS?

[Postie]

Postie

, can you share your readslist?

I don't typically have very well developed reads this early, but my gut says lovelygiant, Guy, Lowell, and n_n are town right now. Everyone else is null, with GWS being null lean scum.
I'll stop being lazy and ISO some people later.

[Postie]

I saw Gale scum game in Saga

his game in here is quiet different.

but that was a large game , so I don't know

Link?

[Postie]

I can actually see where FA is coming from so I think her concern is fair enough. I tend to be a bit more aggressive, especially on D1, and just kinda attack random things and build my reads from there. I do that as scum as well as town, but FA hasn't played with scum-Postie.

[Postie]

I actually like the GWS wagon better. I think lynching town!Creature would be worse than lynching town!GWS, because I might actually be able to get a decent read on Creature in future, whereas GWS is just going to be annoying all game.

VOTE: Gale Wing Srock

[Postie]

introduce me to scum postie please.

Ugghhhh

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=64844
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=64506

inb4 vigkill

[Postie]

ok w8 a minute ...

why the fact creature is doing nothing in game is going to give you a read? and why is that better in any manner than lynching an active player?

I think your saying policy lynching gale is defintly better than policy lynching creature in a very nicer way.

am I right?

Well, sort-of. I am actually leaning scum on GWS as well though. I've found Creature's contributions so far pretty underwhelming, but not really scummy.

[Postie]

so can you answer the other question I asked you there as well?

"why the fact creature is doing nothing in game is going to give you a read? "

Well I'm assuming Creature isn't going to stay quiet the entire game and give me nothing to work with.

Although that does mean Creature could use some pressure.

Okay you've convinced me.

VOTE: Creature

[Postie]

Woah woah woah. FA, we're not going to lynch you, especially since there's no way you aren't going to end up being the nightkill target now that you've claimed.
Look, you're not bad at Mafia, you just need to stop engaging with anyone who's upsetting you right now. Take a step back from the game, have some ice cream, and come back when you feel better.

[Postie]

To compensate for the negative vibes in this thread, please enjoy this gif of a cute weasel...

[Postie]

@postie Ice cream won't work.

What about this?

and WHO Said I'm bad at this game?

No one; I'm just bad at wording things. My point was that you're

good

at this game and your reads are valuable to town, so we need you to come back when you're less upset.

[Postie]

And I really hope that wasn't a hammer.

[Postie]

No, I just counted, FA's vote put you at L-1, I think.

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

Honestly I find the speed at which this wagon took off slightly concerning. I've said that before in other games where the wagon was on scum but I still don't like it.

[Postie]

Please don't start arguing again.

[Postie]

People who voted for creature :

chilledtea
antihero
GWS
postie

fa

lovelygiant
fa

Yeah it's L-1.

UNVOTE: Creature

I unvoted as well so we're at L-3 now.

[Postie]

I did my best act there , I hope it was beleivable

If you're telling me that this was all a reaction test that I don't even know what to think anymore.

[Postie]

the hammer was

Oh, right.

[Postie]

Also lovelygiant, can you not try to add fuel to the flames here? Please?

[Postie]

Alright, then let's talk this through in a way that yields more productive results instead of pages of useless back-and-forths.

FA, why do you think lovelygiant is scum?

[Postie]

Her reaction to your hammer? So post 412? Or 443? Something else?

[Postie]

I can't find a place where lovelygiant said that. Can you link me to any posts you didn't like? I'll agree her jump onto the wagon looked opportunistic though.

VOTE: lovelygiant

This is good.

[Postie]

Just in case anyone does anything stupid again:

We are at L-2.

[Postie]

If there's one thing that gets under my skin, it's players ruining the game and not playing to their win con. It's unprofessional, immature, and a complete buzzkill. Get it together or get lost, to be honest.

^ She is talking like she totally knows I'm town and creture is town

Hmmmmmmn, I'm probably going to disagree on that one. While I could see this reaction being faked, I think it could just as easily come from frustrated and annoyed town; same goes for her other posts, I think.

[Postie]

she got angry becuase of a hammer she voted L1 right before it just to sheep people.

Although you might have a point there. Lemme reread.

[Postie]

The assumption here, is everyone knew that creature was at L-2 when lg voted him. That is not the case.

Yeah, true. I still think the jump was pretty opportunistic though, L-2 or not.

I don't like Postie's flailing. She votes where others want her to. She jumps the GWS wagon for comfort (largest wagon at the time) and gives less than optimal reason (lynching TOWN!GWS is better than lynching TOWN!Crearure), then two posts later she yields to FA's pressure and decides to go against her own stated reason and votes Creature. OUCH!

Oh, yeah, my scumreads can change at the drop of a hat. That's really something I need to work on. I tend to be better at getting townreads, so I naturally end up relying on others' opinions more when it comes to who's scum.

[Postie]

I'm pretty sure FA is town here.

[Postie]

Ah, gotcha.

[Postie]

I need to go get food and sleep now, but I want to highlight that I think some of lovelygiant's posts were intentionally trying to escalate the earlier situation, so that's another reason why my vote is where it is right now.

Spoiler:

Its giant - postie - AH

I'm drunk but hey don't say i didn't told you so

@postie Ice cream won't work. and WHO Said I'm bad at this game?

@lg oh class and dignity? I don't fucking care about them. I'm already dead twice. so yeah ... thats so for living people

Literally get over yourself, honey. If you're going to snap at anything that moves, you're the turtle we're gonna stand and laugh at when you're stuck flipped on your back. I don't help bitter babies.

Leave the thread. When you're sufficiently pacified, come back and try being useful instead of, you know, the least town motivated thing ever? (unnecessarily claiming, threatening to quit repeatedly, absorbing all Day discussion, making a big ole scene?)

Don't quickhammer or you're confirmed as the D2 lynch.

threatened and triggered

as i said I'm drunk not a moron

are you about to pass this entire hissy fit off as a reaction test?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Postie]

You do realise if FA is telling the truth about being a Macho Tracker she'll be dead tomorrow.

Like there is no point in even considering lynching FA at this point.

[Postie]

I take it you haven't read the set-up information then. I want to call you town for that, but at the same time, it's in bright green and red letters. e-e

[Postie]

I don't see it as likely that she'd survive though. FA is the closest thing to a cop we have and scum would be taking a huge gamble by keeping her alive.

[Postie]

Worst. Counterwagon. Ever.

[Postie]

1- Why would you town read someone for not reading/pretending they didn't read the setup?

I didn't, I just said I was tempted to (because scum usually pay attention to the setup).

2- Ask FA.. if I was scum myself I'd be roleblocking her and shooting someone else. After all, the Universal Backup thing would bring a Tracker back in the game, except scum won't know who they are

That's a fair point, actually. Depends on whether scum has a roleblocker, I guess.

[Postie]

Phoneposting so it's difficult for me to make a proper case right now but IMO Frozen Angel is pretty transparently town.

[Postie]

Which should make it NIA, no? I mean I've seen her AtE a boatload as scum but this is completely different.
It looks pretty clear to me that she gives no fucks about her own survival.

[Postie]

As far as lovelygiant being scum is concerned - I haven't seen what makes him scum.

Can you comment on the reasons that were brought up then?

I'll summarise them for you:

I think some of lovelygiant's posts were intentionally trying to escalate the earlier situation, so that's another reason why my vote is where it is right now.

Spoiler:

Its giant - postie - AH

I'm drunk but hey don't say i didn't told you so

@postie Ice cream won't work. and WHO Said I'm bad at this game?

@lg oh class and dignity? I don't fucking care about them. I'm already dead twice. so yeah ... thats so for living people

Literally get over yourself, honey. If you're going to snap at anything that moves, you're the turtle we're gonna stand and laugh at when you're stuck flipped on your back. I don't help bitter babies.

Leave the thread. When you're sufficiently pacified, come back and try being useful instead of, you know, the least town motivated thing ever? (unnecessarily claiming, threatening to quit repeatedly, absorbing all Day discussion, making a big ole scene?)

Don't quickhammer or you're confirmed as the D2 lynch.

threatened and triggered

as i said I'm drunk not a moron

are you about to pass this entire hissy fit off as a reaction test?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

His crocodile tears and theatrical accusations of people playing "against wincon" after (what appeared to be) the lynch make no sense unless he knows the person being lynched is town (and that the person DOING the lynching is town, for that matter).

And also his jump onto the Creature wagon looked opportunistic.

[Postie]

I didn't see the jump on creature as opportunistic. I don't see anything opportunistic in it.

Well, he didn't really give any reasons for getting on. It looked to me like he was just hopping on because everyone else was. I guess, yeah, it would definitely be really helpful to hear what he has to say.

[Postie]

Having a hard time putting it into words, but here are a few quick points for town!FA:

• I think the idea that FA planned her freakout and tracker claim is silly. It's hard to explain, but if you actually read her interactions with AH, there's definitely a slow progression into her outburst; I don't think it looks unnatural at all.
  
  

  There may be zero or more of any other listed role.

  
  
  CC means nothing even if someone do it.

  
  
• Why would scum-FA point this out? If there were two or more trackers and the trackers didn't realise that this was possible, it would be great for scum if they counterclaimed.
  
  

  or I might be just a poor vanilla who just took scums roleblock attempt so our roles can freely do their job!
  
  I would do that ...
  
  I'm pure evil you know?!

  
  
• Not sure how to explain this either but I see this kind of thinking as a lot more likely to come from town-FA than scum-FA.

[Postie]

All the lurking this game is super annoying. GuyFawkes, Dierfire, Creature, and Lowell in particular all need to get their butts in here. If anyone is lurking because they have a power-role - don't. If you aren't a/the vig, then worst case scenario you get shot by a/the vig.

[Postie]

@Lowell

chilled is town.

Reasoning?

Also

I like FA for town. Mostly. And dislike that guy (I forget who) who felt the need to give a treatise on why he doesn't like RVS. Dumb.

Can you go into more details on this?

Asked these questions a while back. Would still be interested in the answers.

[Postie]

so putting someone in L1 without scum reading him before hand then yelling at the potential hammer don't seem like taking advantage of situation ?

^^^^^^^^

[Postie]

Got anything to say about the rest of the game, Guy?

[Postie]

Catching up.

Be aware that lovelygiant is at L-1.

[Postie]

i could go point by point on the lovelygiant case but i really dont have time to do that right now.

but... it's just not a good case.

I'd really like to hear from AH on this actually and I'm not sure I trust this playerlist with L-1 so

UNVOTE:

[Postie]

And it's interesting that you subtly propose that they might be PRs lurking before you offer up that they might be scum lurking.

What are you even trying to imply here?

VOTE: FA

if she wants to be lynched I think we should oblige her

In other words: you don't want to place your vote on a real wagon.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Wouldn't mind a Guy lynch.

i will say this over and over and over and over again. i JUST had this rant in another recent game so i'll just go ahead and link you to the post where i talk about what actually correlates w/ "wagon speed": http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7667158

This was a good read. Thanks. Fast wagons kinda naturally make me uneasy for some reason but I'll try to get used to ignoring that feeling from now on.

lowell is making uncharacteristically bad points

Explain this more? A little bit?

Case on Pistachi0n being a sure shot lurker scum

:

[stuff stuff stuff]

I disagree strongly with calling pistachi0n "sure shot" scum, but some of the thought processes in this post do make Gale look a little bit townier.

Gale, you lose your conviction in your latest post and start waffling. Who do you really want lynched here?

Although there's that.
Dammit, I actually really like a lot of lovelygiant's thoughts. Might keep my vote off him for now.

Gale, you lose your conviction in your latest post and start waffling. Who do you really want lynched here?

There is no loss in conviction, what are you talking about?

I can't speak for lg, but the problem with that post, IMO, was that it read like
"I have no preference when it comes to lynching lovelygiant or pistachi0n but we should lynch pista but I have no preference! Like really it doesn't matter to me! (P.S. Pista is the better lynch.) (P.P.S. Not that I care.)"

[Postie]

L-1

Oh wait this was never true.

I think I'm going to start looking at Creature and Guy now. I can potentially see a GWS/lovelygiant scumteam though after GWS' 680.

[Postie]

I think Creature is close to being replaced though.

[Postie]

Hi NM! Welcome!

[Postie]

I kind of got a weird feeling about GWS and lovely ...

I think a lot of us do.

Why are we all jumping on this pista wagon again?
I don't really see myself voting pistachi0n today unless a lynch on lovelygiant or Guy or Creature becomes impossible.

[Postie]

I've been meaning to ISO Creature and Guy and then pick one of them to vote for so I'm really just procrastinating on doing that and stalling the pista lynch in the process. Sorry. I'll go ahead and do that now.

[Postie]

Okay, I'm liking Creature/Not_Mafia for scum.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Here's my lame attempt at counterwagoning. Hopefully someone on the pista wagon can join me on this before NM gets in here and hammers to save his own skin.
If this slot flips scum, I can at least throw GWS into my townpile because of 82. I don't think Creature would have been so quick to jump in and defend Gale if they were buddies.

[Postie]

Considering Not_Mafia just replaced in, there is 0 chance of him realistically getting lynched. The creature slot got a boost because of replacement.

Oh. I give up then.

[Postie]

why is he being a replace in makes is lynch immanuel?

I think people think we'll see content from NM that'll make the slot readable.
I feel like with how underwhelming NM's catch-up was though, he could be resisting posting more on purpose so that people will keep him alive because they think they need to see more from him before they can consider his lynch, meaning they won't lynch him.

[Postie]

You don't have to read everything, but you commented on three posts and then stopped... why?

[Postie]

Please don't. Please don't leave ever, AH.

[Postie]

I DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE LAST NIGHT
FFS I'M THE DOCTOR

[Postie]

*TO ALMOST50

[Postie]

I protected Antihero.

[Postie]

I DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE LAST NIGHT
FFS I'M THE DOCTOR

And yeah, I realise I fucked up quite badly in how I worded this and it sounds like some kind of hilarious scumslip.

Please just speedlynch FA after this.

[Postie]

Urgh

I was really sure you we're town too, FA. This is even more frustrating because I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend so I'm not going to be able to stick around and talk things through with everyone as much as I'd like to, and I have no idea if I'll have been lynched when I get back. I'm hoping I'll be able to get WiFi and phonepost a little, at least.

[Postie]

Hmm, I don't believe your claim though.

A) You seem to be too claim happy.
B) If you are the Doc, then why didn't you vote for FA?

HAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAAA

[Postie]

VOTE: Frozen Angel

[Postie]

I DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE LAST NIGHT
FFS I'M THE DOCTOR

I protected Antihero.

UNVOTE:

Please lynch this obvscum.

VOTE: Postie

Yeah, I realised as soon as I reread my post that that wording would probably end up being the death of me. It's because I think of the Mafia roles on modern terms; the roleblocker is a prostitute, the tracker is an FBI agent, etc. And so the doctor is... well, a modern doctor working in a hospital, which means an ambulance collects patients and

brings

them to him, rather than him going to them. That's why I wrote it like that.

[Postie]

Oh, and, I'm inclined to agree with Antihero that Almost50's death was a vigkill, which means Antihero was probably scum's target last night.

[Postie]

I couldn't target FA because she was supposedly Macho.
And why would I target

you

?

[Postie]

Yeah, that was a hammer.

Anti, please promise me that from now on you won't just roll over and do whatever everyone else is doing. I doc'd you for a reason.

[Postie]

Final thoughts: I think BlueTrin, chilledtea, lovelygiant, and Antihero are town. Dierfire and GWS are null. I think there scum is in Lowell, Guy, and Not_Mafia.

[Postie]

Take a wild guess.

[Postie]

there scum is in Lowell, Guy, and Not_Mafia.

*there is scum in

[Postie]

like...

the whole reason i backed off fa in the beginning was b/c i really thought i was causing her enough emotional distress to make her replace out

if all that, in retrospect, was a scum ploy then i don't know what i'm going to do besides... cry.

I don't think it was a ploy. Even with her being scum, I think her reaction - at least initially - was unplanned and genuine.
In hindsight though, I probably should have been more suspicious that FA was able to "admit" to playing against her wincon without being modkilled for it.

[Postie]

[Postie]

Aaaanyway

wait so is postie actually town then? Because then I really don't understand.

My gut says this reaction feels fake. :/
Please give Lowell special attention after you lynch FA.

[Postie]

they were both in same place day 1

What is that supposed to mean? Are you just making stuff up now?

[Postie]

I have to go now, but this is completely ridiculous so knock yourself out I guess.

[Postie]

We're just waiting for Aqua, I think.

[Postie]

10/10 would lose like this again.

[Postie]

My understanding at this time is that the mafia would prefer not to release their thread.

I'm okay with it.

@GWS

- You seemed to be leaning towards not releasing the PT, but what are your thoughts now? If there's something specific you don't want people to see, you could ask Aquanim to edit it out, if he's cool with that. I don't personally think there's anything in our PT that we would significantly benefit from keeping secret, and it might help clear up some of the confusion about what went on if everyone else has access to it.

[Postie]

Was literally just about to link you this game, haha. I feel like this was the What Not To Do: Scum Edition counterpart to Newbie 1684.