Mafia 63: Wolves - Game over!

[Talitha]

DOS isn't putting up much of a fight, huh.

[DragonsofSummer]

Woot... more blind following of Pooky!

[Talitha]

Speaking of Pooky... odd that he has a townie role called 'villager', when the other claimed townies are 'butcher' and 'baker'.

[DragonsofSummer]

EBWOP: Like I said Tali I was just complaining about him giving me no reasons for my lynch... obviously I can't make myself look worse with nothing to defend against... If the town is gonna lynch me fine. I will win, and find it hilariously ironic that it is completely possible that my lynch will lose the game for the rest of the town!

[Talitha]

Quag: Why would a tailor be a target switcher? What's the flavour behind that? I don't get it.

[Talitha]

DOS: Oh yeah.. I forgot you claimed Jester. Whether it's tru or not, you can't really put up a fight. So, what was your plan for this game? How have you attempted to get yourself lynched?

[DragonsofSummer]

Well after replacing in I decided it would be a good idea to make it look like I was allied with other people who were under heat (see instances of me semi-defending Skruffs when Jordan was really on him).

I would say it has worked rather well seeing as I am on the block.

[Quagmire]

Quag: Why would a tailor be a target switcher? What's the flavour behind that? I don't get it.

Neither do I. I didn't get any flavor with my role. Mr. Flay said earlier that he only has the roles and alignments and such and not the flavor for those who have recently replaced into this game.

If I had to guess, though, maybe I make shirts, and then they put my shirts on instead of the original ones that they had...?

Anyways. I'm entirely comfortable with a DoS lynch -- I don't buy the jester claim at all. Can I hammer?

[Quagmire]

And by "can," I mean, "should."

[cicero]

Speaking of Pooky... odd that he has a townie role called 'villager', when the other claimed townies are 'butcher' and 'baker'.

Yeah. I don't buy Pooky's claim either. He's either godfather or a power role that didn't want to play the mass claim game. His post was basically screw you I'm not doing this exercise.

Tally I'll answer your question to me (about my accusation of you) a bit later in the day. Takes more time and work is beckoning. Just letting you know I haven't forgotten it.

[Shanba]

DoS is lying; if he were jester he'd have self-hammered by now. However, I want bobbyplump to answer my question before the end of today, so not voting DoS until I get a reply.

[cicero]

Cicero - scum slipping up? Please explain.

I have not kept anything hidden about my role apart from the number of times I can use my self-protection, and how many times (if any) I've used it so far. The only people who would really benefit from me putting this information in the open, are the scum.

If there

is

actually a doc out there, they should protect cicero, IMO.

OK. Here is how I see this. It is just a possibility but the reason for me flagging your last post which read:

I'm fine with being tested, but I only have a finite number of times I can use my wolfsbane. I don't wanna say how many times i can use it or how many times i have already used it. Just that you need to let me know if I'm going to be vig targeted, so i can know to use it.

I just started wondering whether it would work against the vig though... logically it would only work against the wolves.

I think we should lynch the person who has the most chance of being scum. In my opinion it's either Skruffs (what if he's the godfather and can't be killed at night, hence his claim?) or bobbyplump (who is he back up for??? No evidence of a doc, and even if the doc has lied about their role to protect themselves, it's a dodgy claim and him and his predecessor have been acting like scum the whole game).

(Rushed post, I'm at work right now)

The important part of the above post is:

I just started wondering whether it would work against the vig though... logically it would only work against the wolves.

There are a lot of problems here.

First - I don't believe that you would have to wonder. You would know.

Second - We already had this conversation. Remember,Skruffs said:

Talitha's role seems to be based entirely on wolves, whereas mine makes me unliked by all. Sorry.

Look, it's possible that you are town and wolvesbane and all but every time you talk about your role you look scummy doing it. You encouraged mass claim then when it was your turn only gave the title. Then got defensive when pressed about it. And then acted unclear on the powers. If you are town, you are being pretty distracting.

Anyway, I'm not shooting you or voting you right now and will be doing a long re-read before I do so. (It's hard to come into a 34 page, slow moving game). I'm just noting what I see as I see it. Best way I can help for now.

[JordanA24]

DoS is lying; if he were jester he'd have self-hammered by now.

QFMegaT

Can I hammer?

*Gives Quag a hammer*

[DragonsofSummer]

Dude... Thats the point of me being a townie jester though. None of you may believe me but I want the town to win with me. So yeah if the town is gonna hammer me fine, but otherwise I still want to catch scum.

Did no one actually read my claim?

[bobbyplump]

Hey guys...I've been in Seattle for work from Saturday until last night (I told the mod when I agreed to replace, not sure if he posted it here or not). I'm getting caught up at the office today. Won't be able to catch up on the thread or post until tonight or tomorrow morning.

Read this page and saw Shanba has a question for me. I'll read it and respond when I have the chance.

[theopor_COD]

Evasive ^^

Very likely scum.

[cicero]

I just re-read again. Man this makes my head hurt. But something about the DoS wagon seems wrong. For now, and with apologies for extending the day...

unvote

My random thoughts that still don't all make sense:

N9V and Pooky

I am in the odd position of having been cleared by N9V and yet I am now looking sidelong at he and pooky. N9V is inexplicably still alive. Don't claimed cops tend to get torn to shreds? I dont think Pooky is a godfather because
I think the Sorceror that died was the wolf godfather.

Incidentally, I'm new to this Mafia game but I think this whole "don't explain the roles even after they are dead" is bullshit. The wolves get to know if the sorceror is our doc or their godfather but the town doesn't? How exactly is this fair or fun for the town? What corresponding achilles heel did the mod give to the wolves to balance this? This is crap. The back up mod should clarify and fix this immediately.

Talitha

Talitha is the most consistently scummy looking person in the game to me.

My god the more I think about it, the scummier Talitha looks. Over and over again. Could you all go back and do a re-read of all of her suggestions before you hang Dragon on High please.

Her helpful suggestions in the game so far have been...

- lynch lurkers for the fun of the game
- lets all massclaim so the scum know who we are
- protect the vigilante instead of the cop.

Honestly.

Couple that with her being unsure of / evasive about her role and she looks mighty suspicious.

On the other side she has a

very

good point. Why would she claim something so close to Scruffs?

By the way - if there is a doc or bobbyplumb as nursemaid - don't necessarily protect me. N9V is a claimed cop. I see no reason to announce to the scum who will be protected this evening. I am more than happy to give my life for the town this evening. And I'm more than happy to live on tomorrow. So shhhhh!

-------------------------

Sorry if this seems like a lot of biting the hand that feeds me. I'm not done thinking this through. I got a lot of neutral reads from a lot of people because there is so much to go back and read. I'll have to keep at it.

Skruffs, I'm still shooting you in the face tonight. Be ready.

[Talitha]

cicero, what's with the "Honestly"? It really rubs me the wrong way. You've been playing on scum for a couple of months and you're an expert on what are helpful suggestions and what aren't?
- Mass claim was THE best play for town at this point. We now have a LOT more to go on.
- Lurkers kill the game, so we have to kill them or at least pretend to want to kill them
- I won't discuss

anymore

who the doc (IF THERE IS ONE) should protect, but it's pretty bleeding obvious to me (and I have PLAYED a lot of mafia games, i do have some experience to draw on).

Fine if you think I look scummy, but I would probably have made similar suggestions whether I am town or scum. Just FYI.

As for being vague with my role, my only reason to be vague is if I am town. As scum I probably would've been more organised with a fake claim. As town, I decided the scum don't need to know whether or not they can kill me at night.

Thanks for being into this game though cicero, I do appreciate that, even if i don't always appreciate what you post

BTW: What makes you think the sorceror was wolf godfather? Is there a precedent for this, or is it just a guess because sorceror doesnt sound pro-town? If you're right this would be a very big deal. so I'd like discussion on it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

1)that's how he talks, he's the only one who's claimed to be shooting the arrows, no point putting suspicion on him, he's the closest we're going to get to confirmed, don't be so upset at the guy, he's just trying to give his honest thoughts.

2)it's definitely more important to protect the vig than the cop, cop results mean squadosh in an endgame while vig is MUCH MUCH MORE POWERFUL. If you are the doctor, trust me, protect the vig, we can afford to lose the cop, we can't afford to lose the vigilante at this point.

3) I googled online and I found Sorceror as a variety of roles, pretty much no way to tell.

[Talitha]

FFS. Have you even been reading what I say pooky. I fu7cking give up.

[bobbyplump]

Pooky, what's your flavor?

[Quagmire]

Vote: DoS

I don't buy this. A jester that wins with the town is unfair (and bullshit).

[cicero]

Hello again. I'm changing my mind. First, Pooky. It's cool. I can defend myself. Tali, please don't take my language as a personal attack. And try to be a little less defensive and aggressive when you respond. It makes you look like you have something to hide.

I haven't played mafia for long. Just a few months, it's true. But all I can do is call the shots as I see them and let the players defend themselves and others decide for themselves. Experience is great, but since anyone could theoretically be scum I can't really trust any one person's council. Sorry.

Nevertheless, I'm good in this way - I keep researching and learning. Quickly. In fact, I am changing my mind. At the moment, as distracting as Tali can be I'm lowering my scumdar against her AND changing my mind on the sorceror role!

Let me explain. First, I was of the opinion that the link that skruff sent was compelling in terms of roles. It is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/67050

It wasn't the definition of sorceror alone that I was interested in, it was the fact that other claimed roles were mentioned. Most notably "hunter".

I've since done a bit more research though. Phoebus moderated Mafia XIX back in 2004. You can find it here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

That game had similar roles to the ones being claimed here. Not the exact same of course. But it was using a standard werewolf template from Princeton which is available here:

http://www.princeton.edu/~mafia/oldmafia/rules.htm

You can scroll down to see the roles. Between these two links you can get an idea of the standard use of terms

by Phoebus

. Now I'm aware that everything might be totally different in this game, but I don't think it is probable that it is.

So, with caution thrown to the wind, I am going to suggest the following:

- N9V really is the seer.
- Talitha really is Wolvesbane.
- Fircoal was the Sorceror. Sadly he was our doctor. And is now dead.
- Niempie was a Wizard. He was an unafilliated member of the wolves whose job - -was to try to find the seer. He didn't know who the other wolves were.
- There is no Gong Farmer. Skruffs will die when I shoot him. He knows this.

I'll post more about others after I do more reading and thinking.

[theopor_COD]

If that's the case it makes me feel miles better about lynching Niempie.

[bobbyplump]

I can confirm Cicero. This will probably trigger some people's scumdar, but I felt it to be the right play.

My role description was accurate. My flavor was not. I am really the Sorceror's Assistant. Translation still is back-up Doc.

The reason I decided to change the flavor was in hopes of nabbing a wolf false-claiming Doc. Quag, Jordan, Shanba, Theo, and Cicero all claimed after me. If any one of them were wolves, it'd be a golden opportunity for them to claim Doc, and that would have told me they were scum. None of them did, so gold star for them.

I asked Pooky's flavor just a second ago because I wanted to give him the chance to claim Doc. I'm coming clean now in light of Cicero's post and the fact that Pooky claimed townie, not special. I'd still like to know his flavor though.

So...anyway...

Fircoal protected BM on N1
Jingolaw was activated and protected Jordan on N2
Jingolaw protected N9V on N3

I'd be happy to answer any questions.