Mini 1755: Game Over

massive · Post Post #35 (isolation #0) » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:38 am

FOS: All those people quoting CM Punk into the game thread

FOS: Performer for complaining about player activity in a game starting on the freaking weekend.

massive · Post Post #108 (isolation #1) » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:22 pm

Just skimming.

In post 42, Ircher wrote:
Oh, and I just want to point out that scummiest is a relative term, so when I use it, I might not neccessarily think they are scum; what I truly saying is that their play looks the scummiest. Do you understand what I'm saying?

So ... when you say someone is the scummiest, you might actually think they're town? Just the worst town?

Keyser Soze

: Have you played any newbie games where you are the IC? Can you link me to one?

I tilt at fakeclaims. Hate their guts. Lynch all liars and whatnot.

And I've played with pisskop but I honestly don't know if this bad attitude is alignment-indicative. I kinda feel like it isn't and kinda feel like I should go find the games I've played with him.

... tomorrow

massive · Post Post #152 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:26 am

In post 116, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Massive.
Ive seen a couple, of recent ones.

My question was more about whether I should expect Keyser Soze to be a teacher / leader of newbies as town, and to have an example of that, not to get an idea of his general meta.

Also, everyone has a scum game. If you can't see one when they're scum, they're outplaying you.

In post 121, Performer wrote:
and massive are you town in here like the last game I was in, with you?
I'm not too certain about you.

It's part of the romance, the legend that is .... MASSIVE

Honestly I always find these statements so bizarre, I think I'm pretty easy to read as every alignment.

In post 140, AxleGreaser wrote:Answering questions for other people is in general IMO bad. please dont.

Humorous since you essentially did exactly this with my question for Keyser Soze.

massive · Post Post #265 (isolation #3) » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:17 am

In post 247, Performer wrote:

massive – I don't like how you stated you're easy to read as every alignment. I played only 1 game with you and I never had a strong townread on you before your flip in that game. Can you expand on why you say you're easy to read as every alignment, maybe including examples?

I find this interesting, because numerous other players in Mini 1740 clearly expressed easy townreads of me. My wiki is updated, with alignments for each link, so you can feel free to see check that out. A big part of why I think I'm easily read is because I really dislike being scum -- it's not why I play the game, even though I realize it's a necessary evil -- and it tends to show in my scum games.

massive · Post Post #271 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:28 am

pisskop v. AlwaysInnocent

I didn't read a lot of it, and I don't know that I'm going to go back and re-read it all now, but I will give it a skim. Thought at the time was town v town. AI's case on pisskop comes about eight pages after he votes him AND is composed almost completely of things that happened AFTER AI voted pisskop. I do like that AI isn't stuck tunnelling on pisskop, I also disagree with "town-pisskop wouldn't give up like this" because I think town is WAY more likely to give up like this in general. Still think town v town is most likely.

Raskolnikov v. Keyser

My first concern was "not enough data points from Ras to determine" ... but in skimming the two of you, my question back to you would be, some portion of your case / vote on him was due to him overreacting to the pisskop wagon. Doesn't this presume pisskop-scum, and if so, why move your vote?

pisskop v. Deus Asmoth

Deus's attack on pisskop seems pretty "shark in the water." His first two posts are against Keyser, but he completely abandons that to start attacking pisskop, and ONLY once pisskop has unvoted himself. It seemed solely designed to keep up pressure on pisskop, pressure which was looking to dissipate.

I also hate Ircher's "let's just go ahead and policy lynch pisskop" stance.

And when the hell did I get a Boonskiies in this game?

massive · Post Post #336 (isolation #5) » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:54 am

In post 286, AxleGreaser wrote:The point of this post is we both now have some hope this idea >if it becomes more relevant< is certainly alive D2 and beyond. Watch.

Yeah, it's definitely something to keep on the back burner for now. I was more interested when the connection between the two seemed very strong at the beginning of the game, but it's become less important now as they've moved apart from each other.

In post 298, droog wrote:
jumps in the game after things have happened
has clearly read it
ignores the most interesting parts

Your catchup posts before this are about the RQS at the beginning and some Ircher comments. Are these the "most interesting parts" I failed to comment on?

In post 323, Keyser Söze wrote:droog's page 12 observations are all finely tuned and accurate (none of his unique opinions look reachy).

Why do you find this a town tell? What does "accurate" mean in this sentence?

I want to vote either Ras or Deus. Deus moreso, but as I think I will have trouble rallying anyone other than pisskop to that train :

VOTE: Raskol

massive · Post Post #405 (isolation #6) » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:34 am

In post 392, Raskolnikov wrote:@massive I didn't see anything in your posts about me, so why the vote?

Mainly the unfounded defense of pisskop's wagon. There's nothing in my mind that should make a townie jump to derail a wagon like that, especially day one. Hence, not townie.

Do you feel that everyone else who voted you has addressed their reasons for doing so?

Oh look, Axle says it better than I did in 395.

In post 396, Raskolnikov wrote:Especially early day 1 I hate policy wagons and lynches. I looked at his ISO and wondered how you could get a strong read either way so it was just ridiculous.

How many other games on this site have you played? Probably be interesting to see how true this is.

In post 398, Keyser Söze wrote:"accurate" - like a brain surgeon performing surgery, there is no room for fluff/insincerity in his actions/conclusions. i.e I did not think this was scum-droog painting vague scum-portraits of players.

So this is "precise." The more common definition of "accurate" is "free from error or defect," which in Mafia looks a whole lot like "correct regarding town and scum." Was there some level of read-agreement or something that prompted that comment? Because I feel like I have townfeels for you, but that word is just niggling at me for some reason.

massive · Post Post #739 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:12 am

Got prodded. Not on on the weekends. Catching up now. I see y'all doubled the page count while I was gone, anyone want to point out any "good parts" so I make sure I don't miss them and anger droog again?

massive · Post Post #740 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:52 am

Keyser: One last word regarding accurate v. precise : Hawkeye's only criteria for accuracy is "hitting things with an arrow," whereas droog's accuracy regards differentiating between town and scum. It's nitpicky to say the least, and I feel better about it just being word choice, but this is a game about word choice and I don't want it left forgotten somewhere on D3 or something.

In post 433, Ircher wrote: I still think that comment about ai's reads is enough to consider you scum tbh.

Why do you consider droog's comment a "scumslip" but Keyser's isn't?

At the bottom of 21. I hate how what was a good line of pressure on Ircher turned into a dong-measuring contest between AI, pisskop, and droog. But yet I slog on.

massive · Post Post #742 (isolation #9) » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:06 am

Made it to the bottom of 25. My impression so far of those four pages:

Player: "Hey but what about this possible game-related idea or thought?"
pisskop / AI / droog: "Never mind that, have you seen the size of our dongs?"

Honestly guys, there is nothing alignment-indicative in your dongs, put them away please.

massive · Post Post #754 (isolation #10) » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:55 am

In post 670, Ircher wrote:I just posted a reads list fyi. No, my gut tells me he's town, but his posts suggest he's scum. Therefore --> Neutral.

So ... what exactly is your gut read based off of, then?

In post 711, AxleGreaser wrote:(an answer to a question that wasn't asked of him)

SERIOUSLY KNOCK THIS OFF

In post 715, droog wrote:but irchirs case on me wasnt convenient

Ircher's case on you also wasn't GOOD, considering it was eight points and four of them were just him saying the same thing as another point. And no, I didn't go back and remember the actual numbers, just my general feeling from his case. Boon isn't wrong in saying that Ircher can fluffpost, and this case was a really good example of that.

In post 743, pisskop wrote:rather than acknowledge that my primary issue with AI is his boisterous play and question dodging you continue to oversimplufy it in epeen contest

Please go back and re-read those pages and tell me any of you were contributing to the success of the town. I understand your points on AI but those pages were a whole lot of I'm Rubber You're Glue.

---

AI can you react to 722 please?

---

Still like Axle. Like Keyser and can forgive the early choice of words. Like Boons which is wrong and I should have my head examined for admitting it, or maybe Boons has come a long way from our early games together. Still think pisskop is more likely town than not. Robster has done enough to repair Deus for now.

massive · Post Post #788 (isolation #11) » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:35 am

I could be convinced to vote for Performer but I'd need some help. Him hanging onto a scumread on me is tunnelling at the very least, which is town, but he doesn't own that his vote is probably all self-interest and tries to come up with reasons to flip on Ras (one of which, post 784, is about the most town thing Ras has done so far this game).

massive · Post Post #792 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:52 am

In post 789, droog wrote:why is tunneling town

In addition, scum need to be as flexible as possible early-game to help ensure mislynches. Being stubborn about one player isn't beneficial to this plan. Of course, Performer has consistently expressed a scumread on me all game but has voted for four other non-massive players, so maybe I'm giving this too much credit.

I'm re-reading.

massive · Post Post #887 (isolation #13) » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:48 am

Probably going to vote Ircher once I have a chance to reread the thread, but that will probably be Monday. Can't imagine any reason I'd let AI hard-defend me all of D1 if I'm town.

massive · Post Post #893 (isolation #14) » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:28 am

In post 890, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 887, massive wrote:Probably going to vote Ircher once I have a chance to reread the thread, but that will probably be Monday. Can't imagine any reason I'd let AI hard-defend me all of D1 if I'm town.

Ircher's still good. I'm nervous of the wording of that, though, but whatever.

If it was you and me, and I was hard-defending you, would you go along with it? Would you go so far as to defend me back?

massive · Post Post #947 (isolation #15) » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:11 am

In post 899, Performer wrote:You're saying scum Ircher killed AI, despite AI hard defending Ircher? Wouldn't scum Ircher want to leave AI alive as long as possible, for AI to keep defending him?

Yeah, that was the end conclusion I came to as well. Spent most of the weekend thinking about this. I went through a number of scenarios (including scum-Ircher being bullied by his teammates, Ircher feeling like he had enough towncred to survive) but this one seems most likely. It might not need to be sorted today, but maybe Ircher can explain why he was going along with it all?

In post 933, Ircher wrote:One look at his ISO would be enough to be suspicious.

You can just say OMGUS, you don't have to point to some non-existent case.

massive · Post Post #951 (isolation #16) » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:41 am

Neopolitans, as far as I know, only get vanilla / non-vanilla. They aren't full out rolecops.

massive · Post Post #953 (isolation #17) » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:19 am

I really need a full re-read but I'm thinking Performer / Heat and I need to make sure it isn't just reactionary. Keyser, Axle still look good to me. Would like more Boon.

massive · Post Post #993 (isolation #18) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:26 am

In post 971, Ircher wrote:
I looked at your ISO - Less than 20 posts out of a game with over 900 posts....

20 / 900 = 2 / 90....

That's some great lurking you've done! And, your slot wasn't replaced! So, I'm just wondering: why haven't you contributed much. Activity isn't always scum-indicative, but it is certainly not something to be overlooked.

I have the capacity to coherently write what I want to say in a single post, rather than feel the need to spread it out over twelve single-sentence posts. You can feel free to look at my wiki and check the post counts of previous games; I'm probably a low poster in every single one. In any event, what you're suggesting would be non-alignment-indicative either way.

massive · Post Post #1023 (isolation #19) » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:22 am

In post 1001, Ircher wrote:@Massive
Yes, but your iso is extremely small (again 2% of the entire game), and none of your posts are extremely long. Most of them are decent length, but tossing meta aside, it seems to me like you are trying to avoid pressure.

Do you think I am under pressure? Do you think I was under pressure Day 1?

I'm hoping to be less busy today because there are some things I want and need to go back and look at again. I know there are some questions I've missed somewhere and I want to make sure I answer them, so let me know if anything is outstanding. Besides Ircher's demand that I produce a complete wall of my reads and thought processes, which sounds like busy work.

massive · Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:48 am

In post 787, Performer wrote:K, caught up with the recent post from Rask on pg 32, and reviewed pg 31 interactions with Rask. It's deadline and the guy put up a periphery post about Axle/Ircher/AI/Droog, on pg 32. His pg 31 doesn't look good either, it's like he doesn't care about or wants to actively impede progress. Deadline is just around the corner, I'm changing my read on Rask again after this deliberation.

Is this the post of a Rask scumbuddy? Initially I looked at it as trying to force through the Rask lynch, but that's only scummy if Performer is scum and Rask is town, which we know he wasn't.

massive · Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:51 am

The real question you are failing to answer, Ircher, is whether or not my gameplay / participation changes between being scum and being town. You want to push it as scummy, but no one is biting because a simple review of a variety of my games would see I play the same as any alignment.

You want to scrutinize me, why not ask me questions? Why not answer my question (who no one seemed to answer) about whether 787 looked like something a scum partner would say about Rask?

massive · Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:20 am

That's not how I play.

See my 1024. Whether or not the speed of Performer's read turn is scummy, why does scum-Performer need to establish justification and MORE reasons for switching to Rask? If he switched to Rask near deadline and simply said "welp it's deadline," no one would question the speed of his read turn. Why does scum-Performer make this post?

massive · Post Post #1082 (isolation #23) » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:42 am

One-way Rask ISO, in hopes of finding some people to look at the interactions as a whole.

In post 194, Raskolnikov wrote:Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

This is probably one scum one town. Simplistic but likely. I never understand why scum do this (stick their buddies into early "easy" reads) but they always seem to do so. Probably Heat-scum and UTL-town based on how involved Rask gets later on his UTL-townread but his Heat-townread still seems kinda like vapor.

In post 610, Raskolnikov wrote:
I looked at droog and he's not that great, he's my #3 at this point. Not as bad as Ircher or Axle but no way towny.
He comes in to vote PK who's a pretty easy target and bases it on meta, his reads list in 311 having "pisskop (lynch him anyways)" which is hilarious because he acts no better. His scumreads of heat/utl were based on him just not liking their style which is absurd, he later reverses these.

Probably should look at droog, because not only does Rask just throw him in as a scumread here, he then uses it to reinforce his UTL and Heat townreads (only one of which he's gone into actual detail about). I think ultimately it won't come of much (Rask's ultimate conclusion in 610 is that droog might be an SK) but this is really the first mention of droog and it feels a little like distancing.

droog is also the first one to point out the magical Heat town-read (I just saw it quoted in a Rask post).

735, 758, 761: "Ircher is a red herring." 836 he does it again on the verge of being lynched.

----

I'm not totally neutral on Performer and would be OK with his lynch. Rask soft-defends him by attacking droog's case on Performer in 610, then also changes his position in their conversation in 780-798, in which Rask also states he knows he's getting lynched, so could be some mutual distancing going on there.

----

Will look at Heat, Ircher, then maybe droog although I think there's enough in this post for me to lean town on him.

massive · Post Post #1170 (isolation #24) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:15 am

Skimmed and caught up.

I completely forgot that GR was Deus. His replacement into the game was pretty good, so maybe I need to have a closer look at the posts from the weekend.

If Performer isn't hammered by the time I leave work, I'll hammer. Not crazy about the insinuation that not voting is somehow scummy.

massive · Post Post #1173 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:45 am

I was going to asK : I also think one of { UTL, Heat } is scum but I'm not pushing it. Is that scummy for me too?

.. but I don't want to get too bogged down in the semantics of it, because I have a fairly comfortable town read on you at this time and I think (at this point in the game at least) I need to not worry about being paranoid. Let me look at GR and then we can talk a little more.

massive · Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:07 am

pisskop are you scum?

massive · Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:41 am

pisskop you got 20 minutes to make me believe UTL or I'm hammering Performer.

massive · Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:54 am

In post 1251, pisskop wrote:
In post 1248, massive wrote:pisskop you got 20 minutes to make me believe UTL or I'm hammering Performer.

Thats shit stop being a bad player.

Bullshit. You jumped to UTL with nary a word about being suspicious about her in the last X hundred posts and want to push that with just your strength of personality? Bullshit. Come after me tomorrow.

VOTE: Performer

massive · Post Post #1359 (isolation #29) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:10 am

Catching up.

massive · Post Post #1361 (isolation #30) » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:44 am

In post 1260, pisskop wrote:Tomorrow we go after massive.

Well, like I said, bring it on. You did a great job at the end of the day yesterday playing for town cred, in a way that has turned out to be WAY more efficient than normal "abandon the town wagon" style, that even had me going "but I still think pisskop is town" overnight. But why couldn't you produce this:

In post 1270, pisskop wrote:Like are all of you so goddamn stupid you cant read a players readslist and be like 'Oh shit, thats actually really genuine'?

when asked, repeatedly, by multiple players, for an understanding of why you jumped ship?

----

In post 1287, Ircher wrote:
The two people I would examine closely are Pisskop and Golden.
I am 95% confident Massive is scum after that ridiculous hammer.

Well, I guess I better open up your spoiler tab and see what's making you vote for someone other than me, and why that person is the person that is attacking me the heaviest. I guess you think this is all scum theater? If that was the case, I'd probably have asked pisskop to use less swear words since they hurt my feelings.

In post 1320, Ircher wrote:
There is a really good chance Massive is scum after his ridiculous hammer.

You've said this twice. What was ridiculous about the hammer?

In post 1320, Ircher wrote:
In this case, learning Pisskop's reason for changing wagons will also help me determine why pisskop allowed massive to hammer. This will by extension help me guage whether or not Massive was truly being opportunistic in his hammer.

What about pisskop's activity at the end of yesterday "allowed" me to hammer? I had stated my intent to hammer early in the morning when Performer was ALSO at L-1 so what exactly is opportunistic about having waited eight hours to do it?

In post 1324, Ircher wrote:@Massive : Why did you hammer. Don't tell me it's cuz of PK cuz you know quite well that PK wouldn't answer.

In post 1082, massive wrote:
I'm not totally neutral on Performer and would be OK with his lynch. Rask soft-defends him by attacking droog's case on Performer in 610, then also changes his position in their conversation in 780-798, in which Rask also states he knows he's getting lynched, so could be some mutual distancing going on there.

In post 1170, massive wrote:
If Performer isn't hammered by the time I leave work, I'll hammer. Not crazy about the insinuation that not voting is somehow scummy.

Had you been here through most the game day yesterday, you might have read either of those two posts.

----

RC, let's talk about UTL / Heat. I still think it's likely only one of them is scum due to this:

In post 194, Raskolnikov wrote:Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

but neither were on Rask, both were on Performer. (I don't know if that's in any way good criteria, because Boon also fits that pattern.) Do you think Rask outs both of his scum partners in a magical townread there?

----

In post 1296, Heat wrote:I want either a massive lynch or a UTL lynch today fyi

Any reasons for your vote? Or did you figure that pisskop's shouting would give you enough cover to vote me without me asking about it? pedit (Or Axle which is what he's also referring to.)

massive · Post Post #1370 (isolation #31) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:19 am

In post 1365, Ircher wrote: It's highly opportunistic to go hammer someone after not getting a response from a very obstinate player like PK.

PK's switching of wagons had nothing to do with my hammer. If you were paying attention, I said I was going to hammer hours prior to that. Somehow that doesn't factor into your argument -- you continue to leave that out. And somehow "demanding answers from pisskop about his jump" doesn't factor into any of your other reads, so it can't be that scummy in isolation. I'm curious how long you'll be able to ride this "I play differently than other people on site, that's why I'm so scummy as town" angle you're slinging. It's really ONLY the N1 kill that is preventing me from helping run you up at this point, so maybe I need to go back and reread Day 1.

massive · Post Post #1597 (isolation #32) » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:42 am

I'm normally not here but I was looking at tires online and see there's 9 pages. I'm going to try and catch up but the Superbowl may get me.

massive · Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:11 am

GR got up to L-1, claimed vanilla, and then I skimmed five pages to see what he really was and ... now he's at L-2? Pisskop is GR your scumbuddy?

massive · Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:35 am

Pisskop and GR aren't buddies. Go back and reread Deus' attack on pisskop from D1. There's no reason Deus tries to prolong the push on pisskop if they're buddies.

massive · Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:39 am

RC: Is your scumread on me based completely on your scumread of UTL?

massive · Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:41 am

That's funny, considering I've been legit pissed at pisskop numerous times this game. Maybe you get called a moron a lot more than I do.

massive · Post Post #1643 (isolation #37) » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:14 am

UPTOOLATE

274 is wiggly fluffposting. Lots of townreads and townleans and no pressure. 440 is actually better, and with 460 catches something new (at that time) on Ircher, so she's not just parrotting pressure on Ircher. Don't like how she abandons it in 676, and her reasons for voting Heat are WAY worse than her reasons for voting Ircher. Primary wagon at this time is Rask; UTL is already on the counterwagon (Ircher) at this time so why jump if scum? (The Heat wagon ultimately goes nowhere.) The follow-up in 686 is kinda wishy-washy, like she's concerned about pressure she's receiving from AI/Keyser and that it's directly related to her scumread of Ircher. Could be why she jumps off Ircher too. Was feeling exactly like Keyser by the time I got to his 800 but I actually like 804 -- trying to get a read on AI by attacking Ircher isn't conventional but it isn't necessarily wrong. Don't like 805 though where she goes back to wanting to lynch one of { AI, Ircher } despite getting nothing out of her attempted read AND despite her still voting for Heat at this point. 1086 Puts Performer at L-1 and the post not only follows logically from her previous-stated views on Performer but includes up-to-date reactions to other cases.

HEAT

114 I think scum-Heat would push the self-vote as scummy since that's easy, and not that it's non-indicative. Heat/PK is a possibility, but I think scum-Heat keeps his mouth shut in that case. 117 Heat wants to stop the PK wagon. Consistency is good through 357. Soft-defends ("ML bait") / distances from Rask in 382. Heat is probably even less likely than Ircher to NK AI N1 since he spent all D1 attacking him.

... I just realized I skimmed over a ton of Heat's ISO because the head changed. 880 is Heat's first post on D2. Like, 698 is fine but it's almost like Heat is a hydra and the other head started posting, and there's suddenly not a lot of content in the posts and I get to 1056 and was like wha huh? (Yes I realize Heat is not a hydra, what I mean is that his content changed unexpectedly, which could be to divert attention.) I do like 1056 though, did Heat follow-up on looking at AI? Nope and he forgets he already unvoted Ircher when he moves onto Performer (L-1) in 1137 ... at this point he has mentioned Performer / interacted with Performer only once (in a joke post no less) up to listing him on par with Ircher as a scumread in 917? Where did this scumread / "ok with lynch of either" come from? I do like 1490 as subtly townie, because this isn't the type of post I would think of making as scum. Not that scum couldn't make it, it just seems ... finesse-y as scum, and Heat hasn't been finesse-y up to this point.

THOUGHTS

... there's a lot of parallels in Heat and UTL's ISOs. Both under pressure from AI on D1, neither anywhere near the Rask wagon, both townread by Rask, both on the Performer wagon, both independently putting Performer at L-1

... UTL is more likely to kill AI N1 than Heat (both were being pressed by AI but UTL was trying to placate him whereas Heat was attacking back)

... UTL is more likely to be actually scumhunting; I can follow the logic in most of her reads and read changes, whereas Heat has shifts that don't track

I do think one of them is likely scum (not both) and it's a pick-em for me at this point. Gonna go back and look at Keyser's ISO and see if I see anything that would make one or the other want to kill him more N2.

massive · Post Post #1646 (isolation #38) » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:09 am

Keyser's more on UTL than Heat, and if I can see UTL being the more likely of the two to kill AI N1, it also follows that she'd be the more likely of the two to kill Keyser N2.

massive · Post Post #1649 (isolation #39) » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:42 am

Have you ever expressed a suspicion of either of them up to this point?

massive · Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:29 am

I wanted to reread GR / Deus today but didn't get a chance. Will do tomorrow.

massive · Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:44 am

I don't know that I would call it "dismantled;" in fact, until you just hopped off here, the only person to unvote was pisskop who wandered off for his vanity vote on RC. Why are you trying to sell it as such?

massive · Post Post #1780 (isolation #42) » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:31 am

I guess it really was a rhetorical question, huh.

massive · Post Post #1966 (isolation #43) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:13 am

Well at least I'll actually get to post today. Heat and Axle are my town block so I'm going to reread Ircher and pisskop.

massive · Post Post #1967 (isolation #44) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:17 am

Mostly I need to figure out why pisskop would jump from Performer to UTL at the end of D2 as a scumbuddy. I don't see that happening in that situation. So I guess I'm

VOTE: Ircher

massive · Post Post #1974 (isolation #45) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:23 am

Ircher: Why is PK conftown?

massive · Post Post #1984 (isolation #46) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:05 am

You have enough posts from pisskop to declare he's conftown though? Is it really quantity for you, and not quality?

massive · Post Post #1992 (isolation #47) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:44 am

In post 1929, Ircher wrote:Pisskop - Meh, it is unlikely he's scum. Furthermore, he has confirmed Boon as town, something that scum definitely wouldn't want. There's no reason scum would even consider that as only 1 remains, so unless the mod is bastard (and mind you this is a normal game), PK cold tech. be considerd conf town for confirming Boon.

Ircher, I went looking for your explanation on why pisskop was conftown / extremely likely to be town. This was the last thing you wrote in the thread. Boon was already practically conftown for hammering UTL in the way he did (since he knew not only that RC was lying about his result, but also lying about being the Friendly Neighbor). Pisskop didn't provide any independent information about Boons, so what is it about pisskop's response to Boons' claim that you liked?

massive · Post Post #1997 (isolation #48) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:21 am

In post 1993, Ircher wrote:Well, I also liked the part where he forgot he got such a pm. His reaction at finding the pm seems genuine.

unvote

Have something new to think about.

massive · Post Post #1998 (isolation #49) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:22 am

Ha, and it doesn't have anything to do with that quote.

massive · Post Post #2002 (isolation #50) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:24 am

I have to think about why pisskop's town block would be him + Ircher + Heat.

massive · Post Post #2028 (isolation #51) » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:20 am

I'm here and will catch up. Scum spot is #3, though, pisskop.

massive · Post Post #2029 (isolation #52) » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:10 am

In post 610, Raskolnikov wrote:
I looked at droog and he's not that great, he's my #3 at this point. Not as bad as Ircher or Axle but no way towny.

Anyone think this is all town?

In post 2003, pisskop wrote:Ircher (1): Raskolnikov

^^ all day 1. thats not a bus, its superobvious in hindsight so scum tend to be hyperaware of that kind of crap.

Why is no one fact-checking you? Rask unvoted Ircher in 758 and called him a "red herring" in 761 -- when it became obvious Rask was going to be the lynch, he started trying to help Ircher save face.

In post 2004, pisskop wrote:All day 2 massive rode the fence while the performer and utl wagons formed.

Why is no one fact-checking you? When I left Friday, UTL had one vote and I had expressed exactly my thoughts on the Performer wagon. UTL wagon was 3 when I came back on Monday (hardly a wagon at 6 to lynch) and didn't get any attention until you decided to hop to it at deadline and try to cagefight me over it.

Going to re-read UTL's ISO and then try and read pisskop, although I suspect that will need to be in context.

massive · Post Post #2034 (isolation #53) » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:56 am

I don't think there's any way Rask gives a blanket town read to BOTH his scumbuddies and ONLY his scumbuddies in one post. So, for that reason and maybe that reason alone, Heat is town.

I think you (pisskop) are town but I also think I may be guilty of underestimating you either way, so I am trying hard not to give in to the paranoia, and just focus on what I know from Rask/UTL and their interactions.

massive · Post Post #2038 (isolation #54) » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:11 am

I do think Axle is town. There have been way too many times that he's posted my exact thoughts. If someone is reading the game the same way I am, then I tend to think they're the same alignment.

massive · Post Post #2101 (isolation #55) » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:45 am

Axle

: Why does scum-pisskop switch from Performer to UTL and risk losing his second buddy by D2? Performer's lynch was in no way guaranteed there, even with me stating intent to lynch. If he's looking for town points by switching off a mislynch, why not just unvote?

massive · Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:04 pm

This is starting to be nonsensical.

massive · Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:38 pm

When the rest of say "yeah we're not lynching Axle" who are you going to pick next in your Russian Roulette of lynch targets? Because seriously.

massive · Post Post #2152 (isolation #58) » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:19 pm

We can alway ask to extend the deadline. Heat's participation and voice is kinda important here.

massive · Post Post #2157 (isolation #59) » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:59 am

In post 1674, Ircher wrote:
In post 1671, pisskop wrote:I read through and I can trust axle enough based on my reading to vote utl confidently.

Fyi, Axle prefers the Heat/GR lynches first.

In post 1691, Ircher wrote:
In post 1690, pisskop wrote:
vote: utl

Now listen here mister! UTL had his wagon D2, it's Heat's turn!

Pisskop, what do you think of these two?

massive · Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:51 am

Because in order to win, the scum have to force mislynches. Letting them kill instead of forcing mislynches just makes it easier for the scum to set themselves up with the best possible conditions. Despite what you say, it's not advantageous to town to leave it all in the hands of the last scum.

massive · Post Post #2177 (isolation #61) » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:11 am

I'm here today and tomorrow. I am currently going camping on Saturday but will check in. I'm not planning on leaving Friday without voting, though.

massive · Post Post #2184 (isolation #62) » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:41 am

He has, and yet he's never been anywhere near being lynched. Whichever it is between you and him, you've both done a good job of playing your specific game and selling it as town.

massive · Post Post #2187 (isolation #63) » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:53 am

Stuff like that exactly.

massive · Post Post #2190 (isolation #64) » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:48 am

I think you've seen me play as every alignment. I'd have to check to be sure though.

massive · Post Post #2218 (isolation #65) » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:42 pm

There was never any danger of me hammering Axle, so I can't imagine why Ircher even brought it up.

As noted, leaving this here.

VOTE: Ircher

Will check back in the morning on my way out.

massive · Post Post #2236 (isolation #66) » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:48 am

Why would I hammer Axle when he's been my top town read all game? If I was scum, how could I possibly explain that satisfactorily tomorrow?

massive · Post Post #2273 (isolation #67) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:12 am

Hrm. I expected to be dead. I'm reading and thinking, brb.

massive · Post Post #2274 (isolation #68) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:21 am

I'm up and active, Axle. My active time is from 7a to 4p Mountain (GMT-7)

I want to go back and re-read the actual lynching of UTL.

massive · Post Post #2275 (isolation #69) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:04 am

In post 1278, pisskop wrote:
In post 1275, Golden Robster wrote:pk acting like he'se the angel in all of this

When did you become a confirmed town again?

The moment I went against the most obvious mislynch in the history of Dier games.

In post 1561, pisskop wrote:Icher is a newb. Axle is kind of falling back into something else.

Heat and utl have caught shade all game.

pisskop

: When you jumped off Performer and onto UTL D2, how much of it was actually feeling UTL was scummy, and how much of it was because she was the counterwagon to Performer?

massive · Post Post #2276 (isolation #70) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:04 am

Haha, nice quotes.

massive · Post Post #2280 (isolation #71) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:05 am

Yeah, kinda.

VOTE: Axle

massive · Post Post #2283 (isolation #72) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:20 am

Hey, don't look at me, I did play like I wanted to win!

massive · Post Post #2297 (isolation #73) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:43 am

Really, RC, if your ability to convince anyone of anything wasn't total shit, you'd probably be a lot less frustrated in these games. Maybe a smidgen of introspection. Jeezus.

massive · Post Post #2301 (isolation #74) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:53 am

You got one lynch via a fake guilty. You ruined your own reputation in the game. You have no one to blame but yourself. Don't blame the town, your displeasure at this game is all you buddy.

massive · Post Post #2305 (isolation #75) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:04 am

Why does what the town would believe matter in that case? You block me, you don't actually die, and it's game over. Did you think you couldn't convince the town you were really a roleblocker after fake-guiltying AND accepting Boons' fakeclaim of you being the Friendly Neighbor? Boons would have self-outed at that point so you only had half the distance to go.

And personally, I think that it's your job as town to work to convince your teammates and work with them to win, not play obtusely and then yell at them in post-game. My irritation has nothing to do with your ability to read the game, it has everything to do with this shitty holier-than-thou attitude you have after losing.

massive · Post Post #2308 (isolation #76) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:06 am

Man, Performer, your hammer was the most nerve-wracking thing I have ever done as scum. I knew I couldn't let UTL's wagon gather any kind of momentum but I knew I needed to do it in a way that wouldn't bring a huge amount of fire my way the next day. Luckily pisskop finally decided he'd rather I choke on a pretzel than get lynched

massive · Post Post #2335 (isolation #77) » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:48 am

Thanks, Rask, sorry you got the bus so early in the game. Look forward to playing with you in the future!

massive · Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:23 am

Well, fine, let's call it "going along with the fake claim."

In post 1742, RadiantCowbells wrote:y u out me tho.

In post 1748, RadiantCowbells wrote:why dis guy outing the friendly neighbour tho.

If you were mad at Boon for this, why not hang him out to dry? You knew he was the FN at that point in time. Personally I think RB > FN here?

massive · Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:28 am

If you say "I'm not the FN, you are, dummy," then I leave you alone, probably for the rest of the game. I am perfectly happy to keep you around since you don't seem to be able to convince anyone to follow you. And I'm perfectly happy to kill Boons one night earlier than I had to.

If you say "yup, I'm the FN!" well then you must die, because you are conftown to half the town and I will never get a chance to mislynch you.

I don't know, man, this is why I hate gambits and lying townies. I just never see it work in their favor.

massive · Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:38 am

Honestly, I don't know. We had already killed the doc and the JOAT by that point. Getting a FN claim was just like, how stacked IS the town? We got a fucking encryptor! Whoop dee doo! So I was at the point where that FN had to be the last PR left. Getting a RB was just icing there.

massive · Post Post #2402 (isolation #81) » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:42 am

No, but UTL did. By the time I could come in and explain that "cop + doc" is viewed as overpowered in this day and age (especially compared to scum power level), it had already been Boon'ed. If Boon hadn't quickhammered, there was a chance she could have blown up or made some associative plays that later cleared some more people. (Not like I wasn't already working against at least half a town I knew I could never get lynched.)

One of the things that I needed to learn after coming back to the game after four or five years was that "just scumhunting" isn't enough any more -- this is a team game and there's a real amount of work that needs to go into determining who is on your team and then working with those people to attain your shared goal. It's still something I am fairly bad at, but I still don't get a "W" in the win/loss column if I'm completely correct in my scumreads but the town still loses, so that's why I keep trying.