Mini 507: Big Brother Mafia - Game Over

[ryan]

/confirm

[ryan]

Uh..............no thanks.

[ryan]

No problem Vel.

[ryan]

So where are we at with our final player?

[ryan]

In six hours time, all mafia must terminate private communication for the remainder of the game.

At that point, a significant event will occur, so please check back as well to see directions.

So it's been over 6 hours, where's the event?

[ryan]

[dibs]i'm Drew from BB5.[/dibs]

Ohh. i wanna be....AMERICAS PLAYER!!!
tell me what to do america and i will be really annoying and manipulitive and get it done.

America decides that you should...............act like a mime

[ryan]

Thank god for the Cubs this weekend, my other teams didn't do so hot.

[ryan]

Congrats to DragonsofSummer. So I'll pose this question to the game, what is the easiest way to nominte two on Day 1? Random? Draw straws?

[ryan]

STD: If we play it as an actual mafia game should we each vote and keep a count that way? Pretty much like an actual mafia game except the top two vote getters would be nominated?

[ryan]

Possibly. I guess it's impossible to be exact, but I suggest we keep talking until we get some information to go off of.

I guess what I figured is we'd play the game like normal but this time the top two vote getters are the ones who are put up for eviction

[ryan]

Well since this would be the random voting stage (if we were playing regular mafia)


My nominees:
Flare (because I like dull things)
Untrod Tripod (for having a weird name)

[ryan]

I like the bold idea (wasn't sure what the rest of you thought) Don't you think though Vel (if I can use that for short) that we should nominate two players since that's what we're looking for anyway?

[ryan]

Well normally in a game like this I'd suggest pressuring the lurkers, maybe the same case here? People who haven't been active get put to the front of the line?

[ryan]

Sorry I haven't posted, I've been busy.

I haven't noticed anything thus far but I'll reread tommorow and post again.

I'm definitly not for randomly picking two people

but if posting doesn't pick up there might be no other option.

I think it's been discussed to play this like regular mafia but with shorter deadlines we do need to be more active. How would you suggest choose our candidates each day?

[ryan]

What time on Sunday will both nominees need to be chosen?

[ryan]

Trabony: So what happens than if nobody is nominated, are you fine with DoS being the voice of the rest of us? I'd like to at least have a say in who we nominate.

[ryan]

DoS: See that's exactly why I'm considering changing my vote. I mean it's not fair to vote somebody who's participating when we have lurkers.

[ryan]

My problem is I NEVER vote lurkers in regular mafia, usually I'd ask they be replaced, but in this setup it's almost the way to do it. At least if a lurker and somebody who's playing are matched up as two nominees it will force the lurker to defend themselves.

[ryan]

Since we started the game these are post counts (up until this post) I didn't feel it would be fair to only add a tally mark if it was a meaningful post so anytime anyone posted this is what our count is


ChaosOmega 4
ckillor 16
DragonsofSummer 21
Flare 7
mneme 7
pickemgenius 12
Pug89 3
ryan 18
Save The Dragons 10
trabony 7
Untrod Tripod 4
Vel-Rahn Koon 14


Obviously we have some non posters on this list. I'm going to Wrigley Field this weekend so I'll be gone. I'm going to repost my final answer (thank you Regis) on my two nominees later this afternoon.

[ryan]

Obviously we have some non posters on this list. I'm going to Wrigley Field this weekend so I'll be gone. I'm going to repost my final answer (thank you Regis) on my two nominees later this afternoon.

go D-Backs

go Rockies

I disagree to an extent of voting out lurkers.

I wouldn't mind one lurker, and somebody else as much.

Because what information would we get if the two lurker noms didn post, what new information have we gotten? None, I'd just rather avoid that scenario.

That's what I was talking about in my post 136

[ryan]

After thinking about it today my two top nominees are

Nominee's

Pug89
ckillor

Basically one who hasn't posted alot and one that has posted a bit. I'll be back Sunday night and see what shook out.

[ryan]

EDIT

*Sorry about my terrible formatting*

After thinking about it today my two top nominees are

Nominee's

Pug89
ckillor

Basically one who hasn't posted alot and one that has posted a bit. I'll be back Sunday night and see what shook out.

[ryan]

By posting two people who haven't done ANYTHING makes the chances of learning anything very remote. I seletected somebody who hasn't done much of anything (Pug) and somebody who's posted quite a bit. Why is that a weird reason? Two people who don't post anything isn't going to tell the game anything. At least with somebody active (you) against somebody inactive that could possibly get him posting and than we'll have some actual information. I didn't realize my concept was that difficult to understand.

[ryan]

Just a really wild theory but ryan's whole "here is a list of lurkers/non lurkers" action, just after discussions about voting out lurkers make it look like ryan is trying desperatly to create a reson to save himself. In otherwords it seems like he is saying "look at how many times i posted don't vote for me!"

As well, the "im voting for someone who has posted alot" vote seems like he is trying to cover this up.

Just a wild theory!

I

FoS: Ryan

though.

I am not quite sure how I was trying to save myself (I believe I had 1 nomination on myself at that time) I thought I had stated my reasoning for why I was voting for who I voted for. If it's still not clear, let me know and I'll explain it again.

[ryan]

I'm sorry, didn't we already agree to post Nomination counts?

[ryan]

do nomination counts really matter that much? it doesnt matter as much as whose nominated and what they have to say

Well it could mean alot if we were able to put two scum up for nomination.

[ryan]

We can argue how people were nominated till we are blue in the face, but I think trabony and Flare need to start making a case for why they are town.

[ryan]

Vel: Agreed it could be big for later, but to dwell on it now is counter productive. We have two nominations and neither has really put up much of a fight so far.

[ryan]

Vel: You are thinking what I'm thinking which is IF they are both town we have no clue due to no defense. Come on fellas, something?

[ryan]

PMG: I have to slightly agree with DoS, it's obvious that Flare has been nominted (it says so in the thread title) for him to pop back on and act like he doesn't know what's going on is pretty silly don't ya think?

[ryan]

pmg: No reason to get hostile now my friend. As has already been proven our two nominations have done little if anything to defend themselves, that to me is a little strange. If they aren't active they need replaced BUT if you're town, wouldn't you be jumping up and down screaming your innocence?

[ryan]

Woo!

I'll catch up soon at what has happened.

So why should you not be voted?

[ryan]

If Trabony isn't here he needs replaced than.

[ryan]

Welcome to the game Skruffs. As for nomination votes, I don't believe anyone has actually cast a vote yet.

[ryan]

distad: Why should we vote Skruffs and not you?

[ryan]

The "no worries if I'm voted out I'll be back statements" are starting to really confuse me. Who says our mod would allow either of you two to replace back in if it was deemed necessary? What exactly do you mean by a "floater?"

[ryan]

Omg omg ryan, you just outed yourself.
Any reason you only wanted distad's reasoning?
Any particular reason, other than being scum, that you would think that 'floater' wasn't a townie?

1) No I did not "out" myself (I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion by my questioning to distad that I was scum)

2) I asked a question of distad (which I believe I asked you to tell the game why you were town earlier)

3) I have no idea what a "floater" is, hence why I asked what it was.

[ryan]

Dude... you're 11 pages into this game. Are you telling me that you got a pm saying that you were a floater and *DIDN'T* try to figure out what it meant?

I call BS.

1) First off, nice rolefishing on what my pm said

2) I understand what the pm meant, but I didn't really pay attention to the "floater" part. I just saw that my condition was a win when all the evil was gone and was fine with that.

[ryan]

Actually... Skruffs did the rolefishing. I, however, TOTALLY agreed!

Still, I don't believe that you would accept a title and not know the implication, regardless of win condition.

Good lord, I asked a question about why it was called "Floater" and the two that are ON the block turn and try and start twisting my words around? Real interesting. Maybe you and Skruffs should worry more about showing why you are town at this moment?

[ryan]

Well I'm not scum distad, so I'm sorry but there is nothing amusing about what you found, because you didn't find anything. I asked a question about the term NOT about that it was a townie condition (I already stated I knew what my win condition was.) I'm not going to get into a "well this is what I think you said" argument, it's not pro-active on showing if you are scum or not, it isn't going to help the game by muddying up pages upon pages of back and forth dribble and if you (or Skruffs) should be voted off. You've been asked to explain your predecessor's lurking and non posting, and why you are town and all you've done is point a finger at me and call me scum. If you feel that is enough to prove you are pro town, I find you to be sadly mistaken

[ryan]

I believe I said you don't have enough evidence to call me scum (or anything legit), but whatever floats your boat buddy.

[ryan]

I agree ryan's slip, is almost a little coincidental for him to not be nominated next week. I am very intrigued/befuddled with mneme wanting bith ryan, and DOS as noms next week. I would like to hear:


distad: convince me you're town.
skruffs: convince me you're town.

I have no problem being nominated next week and would gladly refute the attempted "case" that our "alleged townies" have presented on me.

[ryan]

Who are you trying to quote? I'm confused by this message Vel

[ryan]

Scruffs: I'd keep my options open, modulo discussion tomorrow (because as I mentioned, the ability to influence the nominations is what drives town discussion in the pre-nomination period, and town discussion in the pre-nomination period is a primary location for scumtells), but if I had to nominate without a discussion period (hypothetically), I'd nom the two people I've pointed out as needing discussion -- ryan (claimed scum) and Dragons of Summer (some odd nominating, and as first HoH, better than even chance of being scum).

The reason, btw, that I think there's a good chance of the 1st HoH being scum is that while scum have a good reason to look within the 3/4 of the game that isn't with their group for the 1/3 of that which is scum (as their best competition), they have almost -no- reason to vote for a non-scum as HoH (except this one). So while it's entirely possible that our first HoH isn't scum, there's at least one reason that he is.

I NEVER claimed scum, stop twisting things around.

[ryan]

Was (later) claimed to be based on lurking/inactiivty -- but Flare's inactivity was thorough enough to not be able to draw much on it, and there were others who were lurking more and more scummily.

I believe the reason Flare was nominated was not because he wasn't posting but because he was not contributing.

I NEVER claimed scum, stop twisting things around.

There is no reason for you not to know that a floater in this game is a townie. I can understand not knowing what a floater is if your not familiar with BB, but it's obvious that it is a townie in the context of the game and there is no exuse for not knowing that since all of the role PMs are on the first page.

I understand that a floater is town, my question was and has been, WHY is it called a floater. Is nobody else reading my comments? Come on now.

[ryan]

Skruffs and distad: You guys both seemed a little disappointed in the reasoning for why you were voted (with being your predecessor's were inactive for the most part) Do you feel nominating lurkers is a good or bad thing?

[ryan]

PMG: THANK YOU! I've been looking for this answer the entire darn game.

[ryan]

distad: Do you believe you would be more helpful than Skruffs if you were allowed to stay in the house another day?

[ryan]

What about lurkers? Should they be nominated automatically?

[ryan]

Fair enough distad. Thank you.

[ryan]

Skruffs: I didn't have any questions for you at the time of my questions toward distad, but I'd be more than happy to ask a few (if you are still around)

1) Why do you believe you'd be more helpful in the endgame when we try to eliminate both groups of scum

2) Do you believe your analysis of the 6 you have targeted is a pro town move or just a little wining in order to sway the rest of the town on your side?

3) If you and distad are town (you both seem to pointing toward eachother for HoH) who do you think the scum want out more?

[ryan]

CO: I was looking for reasoning WHY he thought he'd be better than Skruffs in our attempt to out the other scum in the game. I didn't want to hear the normal "well I'm a better scum hunter" I wanted some decent reasoning why he thought he could lead us into finding scum.

[ryan]

Listen Skruffs, I didn't have time to ask you questions at the time I did to distad. I had specific questions for him I asked, yours were coming today, you didn't pressure me to ask, I was ready and willing to post, but if you want to dismiss that, so be it, I am not going to argue with you.

[ryan]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Hi everyone. Reading this asap.[/quote]

That was a rather quick re-read and than vote.

[ryan]

Vote to Evict Skruffs

[ryan]

Vel-Rahn Koon: As HoH how will you be selecting the two players up for eviction? Will we (the game) be voting or will you be just selecting?

[ryan]

How would you like the players to nominate than?

[ryan]

I still find Skruffs to be one of the scummiest in the game and will probably be nominating him here in Day 2.

[ryan]

Well how about this for discussion, should we look any closer at the ones on distad's wagon and especially ChaosOmega for hammering?

[ryan]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Chaos had no choice but to hammer. It was either a hammer or a modkill, really.[/quote]

Actually he could have voted Skruffs.

[ryan]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Which could have resulted also in a townie lynch. The only thing it might prove is that chaos and skruffs are buddy's, but nothing more then that, really.[/quote]

So is it worth looking into for a nomination? Who would you nominate if you had to right now?

[ryan]

Actually distad was a townie, so people on his wagon should be looked at, don't ya think?

[ryan]

As promised:

Nom: Ryan, DoS

Ryan for his craptastic play yesterday (and slip); DoS for reasoning yesterday, plus a bit of a hunch.

Re wagons:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

. OTOH, the wagon on scruffs was pretty craptastic, so I don't blame necessarily Chaos for going with the Scruffs wagon.

That said...yes, proving a buddy relationship would be a -huge- advantage to the town, as it would knock two scum out in the open.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's highest and you're not blaming Chaos for hammering a townie? Are you screaming that you're scum or is it just me?

[ryan]

Nominate: ryan and FaerieLord

I will explain more after I return from class.

Guess I should have figured that posting suspicion on you would draw out a nomination. Oh well.

[ryan]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

[ryan]

mneme: Honestly tell me that somebody who hammers a townie is NEVER looked upon the next day. Good lord, it's not craplogic it's the way I've seen plenty of games played on here. I have no problems looking at the others who voted distad but I also can't say that I don't look a little closer at somebody who casts the deciding vote, how can you not?

By the way that first comment you quoted (in 386) is YOUR comment and not mine, although your lack of quoting skills has made it look that way

[ryan]

ryan: you don't seem to understand what a hammer is. I'd feel worse about that if I thought you were town, but I don't.

Hint: it's not "the person who makes the deciding vote."

The quoting was messed up, but clear enough given the closequote. Should be:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's

The hammer is the LAST vote on somebody, exactly what Chaos did, he hammered distad. How is this so hard to understand? How is it NOT the person who makes the deciding vote?

[ryan]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

That's half right. I nominated trabony. Afterwards, Skruffs replaced in and I found him less suspicious than trabony. You, however, have said Skruffs is one of the most scummiest people in the game, but I never really saw any reasons by you for that claim.

As for the other question, are you just making this whole hammering issue to get suspicion off of yourself? Because I had to vote, and if Skruffs is a townie, you could have made the same argument, so it just looks like you're trying to find a way out from people suspecting you.

No, I'm irritated because of this argument of hammering. Hammering=the last person to vote somebody who is lynched and for some damn reason it's being argued that ISN'T what it means. I was saying that in games I've played on this site when a townie is lynched the last person is always seen as suspicious (apparently not here) All I asked was a little reasoning and something that made sense and instead I'm getting a ton of craplogic. I've had two nominations on me, hardly a reason to panic

[ryan]

Nominate: mneme

Call it OMGUS or whatever you want but this argument you and I are in, is completely stupid. I'd much rather see you under some pressure from the game to prove you are innocent.

[ryan]

mneme: Listen, if you don't find Chaos suspicious or worth questioning for "casting the deciding vote on a proven townie" fine, I think it's foolhardy to not at least question him on why he thought distad was a better candidate than Skruffs. No matter what wording you want to use that's my argument.

[ryan]

Ryan - you didn't post a single thing with your vote on me. Why not? And why are you badgering Chaos - who had to choose between a tie - and not the person who put Distad at equal footing with me in possibility of being lynched? Isn't it more likely that someone was trying to protect me by making it easier for Distad to be lynched than it is that Chaos waited until there was some sort of known tie before deciding to hammer 'the townie'? And why are you so sure I am scum? The reason I am asking these questions is because you are choosing who to attack in, what I see as, a biased manner.

Also - the whole "People who hammer a townie should be looked on the next day" doesn't mean anything if two townies are the only choices. That was the case

. Every one had to vote between TWO options, me or distad. One of us HAD to be lynched. After DOS made his decision to nominate those players, one of them had to go. If there are other game mechanics in here, they were not used. You can say that is how you have seen plenty of games played, but that is ignoring the mechanics of THIS game. I just really don't like you attacking Chaos for basically being the last person to VOTE and not anyone else.

WIFOM argument there Skruffs and you know it. How do we "know" you are town? We don't. All we do know is that distad was a townie, that is the only thing we know for certain. I don't "know" you are scum, but I have a good feeling that you are trying to steer the town in your direction and to follow you and normally I would see that as a decent town play, in this instance I don't trust you. I also don't like the fact that you don't want to look at Chaos for being possible scum for eliminating a townie but I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about it because it's obvious you don't find anything scummy about it (which is your opinion and most certainly not mine) With that.....

2nd nomination: ChaosOmega

Just because a few others (probably the other scum group) don't want to see you pressured for taking out a townie doesn't mean I'm going to.

[ryan]

Skruffs: Listen, both of us are claiming town ok? Let's get that out of the way first. Because that is essentially what we are doing, going back and forth with you saying that only you KNOW that Chaos had two townies to choose from (if you are indeed town) which is basically the same as me stating town. You know your role and I know mine. You claim to be town, I claim to be town. Period. Alot of your "role" was characterized by the power you replaced, I got extremely scummy vibes from him and although you have done a decent job trying to deflect that I don't lynch the player, I lynch the role and that is why I'm still pressing you on if you are town or not (which you have to admit is fair) I'm not 100% set on you being scum as I'm not dumb enough to not give you a chance to prove your towniness, I just find it strange that Chaos was not given much heat at all for being the deciding voter as a townie was lynched, but apparently that's just me.

[ryan]

Ryan, pickem, Faerie, ksc0pe:
Okay - the four of you have stated prettty strongly that the person I replaced was scummy in some how, but the only quote I have seen is from Faerie. The reasons were that he did not understand the rules of the game, that he was a fence sitter, and that he had crappy reasons for nominating Ryan.

Well, my reasons for nominating Ryan are not that crappy. I have misunderstood aspects of the game (I thought evicted players acted as HoHs on leaving. I was wrong.. that and some other things). Fence sitting, I don't see that as a scum tell, especially on a day one before any real information is revealed.

You guys can continue to hold this against me, for the rest of the game if you want... or you can do as pickem is saying and let it go but keep it in mind... or you can really look if someone should really be accountable for that on a day one. If you want to continue to scrutinize people like that, maybe you should scrutinize other players in the game, too, then, to avoid being hypocritical.

Ryan - Saying that you are going to claim townie does not make mine and your situations similar. It doesn't. Sorry.

Actually it does, because that is your defense, that you are townie and it's not your fault that the person you replaced acted scummy. So the situations are alike whether you want to see it or not

[ryan]

Eh, do what ya gotta do Vel, I have no problem pointing out mneme's flaws and why he should be voted. I still go with my top choices of Chaos and mneme to be nominated but if I'm the leader than so be it, I'll fight like hell to stay on and find scum.

[ryan]

Mneme, I don't like that post.

At all.

It seems to me that you are only trying to get more votes on the chaos nom-wagon

It seems? Looks exactly like it to me.

[ryan]

Vel, I'd like you to post your opinions as well.
Nominate: ryan, mneme.

Ryan's false dilemma that chaos voted out a townie (while ignoring everyone else on distad's vote count) is a baseless reason to nominate co. He thought trabony was scummy, but not me. Saying that's scummy is just validating the votes I had on me that were based entirely on trabony's play (and more likely from scum imo)

Are you serious? A false dilema? I brought up a deciding vote on a confirmed townie, how that is a false dilema is beyond me. I haven't ignored anyone that was on the distad bandwagon but I also haven't gotten a sufficient answer from Chaos on how distad was scummier than you. You are upset because I'm not fine with you living, I found trabony to be scummy and was just fine with seeing you hang after Day 1, now I will admit paging back through your stuff and his stuff there seems to be a difference in playstyle and while you have slid below a couple of people in my "scum book" I'm not saying I won't keep an eye on you but I don't believe you are the play today.

[ryan]

I haven't ignored anyone that was on the distad bandwagon

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed you focus on anyone else besides ChaosOmega that voted for distad. I voted for him and you haven't really noted any serious suspicions on me

when was distad confirmed a townie?

After he was lynched

I haven't seen much content from you to consider you suspicious.

[ryan]

You would request Pug NOT get nominated? That's real interesting.

[ryan]

'D rather have had a CO nom, but I'll live.

I would love to see a very long reason why we shouldn't evict you, mneme and ryan

There are only two up for nomination, why are you looking to evict three?

[ryan]

Way to go, bad grammer.

What I meant to say was why we shouldnt evict you (mneme and ryan). You was a plural indicating you two

Ah, I guess I see where you were coming but thank you for clarifying

[ryan]

This game seems to be stuck in a pattern of slowing way down around the nomination times. We need more discussion. Especially from the two nominees.

I agree. At this point in the game we know enough about the two nominees to have an opinion, but even so, I think a lot of the others are waiting for mneme and ryan to say something.

What would you like me to say? I'm (clearly already spoken out about mneme) obviously against mneme staying and believe he is scum and needs voted off.

[ryan]

What would you like clarified KaleiDoscope?

Skruffs: I find it interesting how me going after you on Day 1 was deemed by you as "not giving me a chance to show you I'm town" (paraphrasing your words) yet you seem to be doing the same thing on me.

[ryan]

mneme: Wow you want to talk about craplogic? Post 462, paragraph 3 looks like a load of crap to me. You had the upperhand in the debate? You are laughable, you are a whiner, you are scum and you need to go.

[ryan]

And once again somebody stating they are suspicious of me without reasoning, nicely done Pug, kinda like your play on Day 1.

[ryan]

ryan:
I've said why I was suspicious of you before, I don't feel the need to repeat it. You trying to throw suspicion on me isn't going to make it less likely I'll vote for you.

So than it's fair if I say I think you're scum and that I've said it before without giving any evidence?

[ryan]

Sorry for making you wait, but I was away from Friday through monday (I seem to have a habit of being nominated just as I go on vacation; at least it was less disasterous this time than in the last one).

As I said in pre-debate, I think Ryan is scum because of his slip yesterday, because of his attempt to make heavy use of craplogic today (on multiple occasions; the hammer business as well as self-contradition in debate with me), and his tendency toward OMGUS voting. He's scum, and needs to leave NOW.

As far as I can tell, the only charges against me are that 1. people not liking my DoS nomination (nevertheless, my reasoning is, I think, sound). 2. my bandwagoning late today (um, yes? This is still mafia, and we still do try to vote people we think are likely to be scum that have bandwagons in preference to people we think are likely to be scum that don't, right?). The idea that I was trying to "get myself off the chopping block" by nomming Chaos was rather silly; it was pretty clear who had the advantage of a me/ryan debate, but -I- would rather have a choice between two people I think are scummy than just one person I think is scummy (as I said at the time). Basically, advisory nomination toward the end of the nomination period is deadline voting with slightly lower stakes -- and I'd prefer to play it that way. (the fact that I got singled out for this despite ryan and Chaos both -also- playing this way is fascinating; perhaps because I was clear about what I was doing rather than trying to disguise my intentions?)

1: First I didn't make a slip, I asked a question about something I wasn't sure of, would you have rather me not ask the question and continue to play wondering what the name meant?

2: You have been the only one to state I have craplogic and it's because it's against you (which shouldn't be a shocker) but using that as reasoning why I'm scum is just dumb

3: Your appeal to emotion is duely noted, but emotion doesn't no shouldn't win you votes in your favor

4: I made a statement about somebody hammering a proven townie, you went off on a tirade and than said you won the debate. HOW did you win? Explain that for me

5: You did nominate a player you heavily defended against me and did so close to a nomination process, if you don't think that doesn't look like saving your ass I can't help you there, I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink

6: I stayed true with both of my nominations during Day 2 process while others swayed, so telling me that I switched stuff (or implying) I did the same yet you were called on it isn't true one bit

[ryan]

That puts me at -1 (in case anyone is wondering)

[ryan]

Wrong choice KaleiDoscope

[ryan]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I'm pretty certain it's not.[/quote]

Pretty certain? That sounds confident

[ryan]

mneme should be up for eviction again (if you want my opinion)

[ryan]

This is crap.

[ryan]

Apologizes to my scum partners as I helped to lose them this game. Sorry guys.