⭐ Blitz 20 — How To Be Normal [Game Over]

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Spiffeh

be back tonight after work

[GuiltyLion]

wait I thought Blitz games were supposed to be super fast, I was expecting pages of content by now

where is everybody

Some Random Mafia Player is giving me some bad vibes
VOTE: Some Random Mafia Player

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Spiffeh just claimed scum gg easy lynch

are you joking right now?

[GuiltyLion]

I know its page 3, but if your going to say this can you at least tell us why you have these reads on them?

Why'd you single out 3dice here when Ranger is giving a full blown unexplained readslist two posts above you?

Xtoxm wagon is not a bad wagon but I like my vanity vote as it stands

[GuiltyLion]

liked srmp's reply and subsequent posts

droog wagon is ew, Xtoxm wagon is better but I also feel like Xtoxm would have stronger scumplay than this

VOTE: Almost50
I'm not a fan of sarcasm in response to being accused, it makes it look like you're purposefully trying to hide your emotions.

[GuiltyLion]

pisskop there's explicitly an SK in the setup

[GuiltyLion]

Here come the second one of them. And the

timing

is even more appropriate.

Are you seriously advocating droog and 3dice for scum on the basis of another player's reads being exactly as accurate as they were in a different game?

[GuiltyLion]

Almost50 - what meta leads you to have Ranger as a strong townread? Can you explain that with specifics?

[GuiltyLion]

she played exactly like this.

^this idea is what I'm trying to get at though - what does "playing like this" mean? What is Ranger doing that reminds you of that past game? And then why do you think scum!Ranger couldn't fake it?

Like I feel like your argument here could be used any time a player mislynches another player in a past game, and I'm not sure if it's scum!Almost50 using a past game to buddy up to Ranger, or town!Almost50 with weak reasoning.

[GuiltyLion]

I have no reason why to vote for the dead confirmed player (who you knew was dead) but im gonna be safe and assume its a scum move.

this is terrible

"I don't know why you did this, therefore it's scum"

pisskop's post wasn't even a vote for RadiantCowbells

[GuiltyLion]

I don't know what to make of Almost50 defending his townread on Ranger

It's not at all a valid reason to townread someone but when reading his posts I get the sense that he genuinely believes in it.

I can't tell if that's because he knows she's town or because he's a newbie. I would like Ranger's thoughts if she has them.

Meanwhile, my scumvibes are back on SRMP, especially given how he's hedging immediately on his throwing shade on pisskop. I just don't feel like he's genuinely trying to solve the game. His accusations are always on the basis of people not posting or not being helpful, as opposed to doing something that legitimately appears scum-motivated.

And I also think voting a player who was replaced (160) is more likely to come from scum trying to find a comfortable spot to vote rather than a town player keeping tabs on players in the game. Although I'm a bit hesitant because I would expect cautious scum to catch that mistake before they post.

[GuiltyLion]

and tbh, if I dont know the motive for it, why should I assume it was a town motive when it may have (somehow) helped advance his scum agenda?

this in particular feels egregiously disingenuous. RC is dead, literally nothing scum!pisskop could do involving RC would advance a scum agenda more than his death already has.

VOTE: Some Random Mafia Player

[GuiltyLion]

how could I know if it could advance it or not? im not his scumbuddy, I dont know if their plans

involve that

or not.

Involve what? What did you think pisskop was doing?

You thought it was a vote, I pointed out that it wasn't a vote, and now you're still trying to suggest that it was some nefarious scum plan. That feels scummy as hell.

[GuiltyLion]

Also, if I was scum why would I need to ask the question and put myself in this position? Wouldent I already know if what pisskop was doing was scum motivated (if he was my buddy) or town motivated (if he wasent)

What I don't understand is why you were so quick to pounce on 212, if you are town. Literally one minute is all it takes for you to throw shit at pisskop for a post that you didn't (and still don't) understand?

I don't think town is so quick to accuse. If you are scum here, you probably saw what you thought was a free opportunity for some towncred by looking like you're scumhunting, and jumped on it.

When I called you out on it, you panicked and started backing off, but now you feel compelled to defend your action instead of just admitting it was a terrible accusation. These posts look to me like flailing.

Also it's multiball (mafia + SK), so scum don't know who all the scum are.

[GuiltyLion]

what I dont know is if that was furthering a scum agenda or not.

And also - how would voting a dead player advance a scum agenda?

[GuiltyLion]

It's funny because I'm town

if Ranger is town I can't wait to see her reaction post game.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm just annoyed at her "GL is even more scum" line and the fact that she completely ignored my question about Almost

Trying to bait her into talking with me instead of about me

[GuiltyLion]

also I get the sense that she's town here and if that's the case then if she's this convinced that I'm scum then one of us will have to go before LYLO

might as well start hashing that out now while more people are around to comment on it

[GuiltyLion]

You don't need to tell me to question my reads

My problem with a Ranger scumread is the way you and Almost (two stronger scumreads of mine) are posturing about her slot.

You keep arguing that people are scum because they're not playing to your ideal how-a-townie-should-play standard and that's not how this game works. I haven't seen anything from Ranger yet that feels fake or ungenuine.

[GuiltyLion]

I agree she's not helping town

I disagree that not helping town is a strong indicator of scum

[GuiltyLion]

SRMP - because townies are often stubborn, lazy, or emotionally compromised. also there are more of them so by sheer probability if a certain number of players are not helping town then it's more likely a town behavior than not.

Do you think scum would want to look like they're not helping town? Because that's a big reason why I'm scumreading you, your posts look like they're trying too hard to look town.

pisskop - there's nothing explicitly stopping me from being on it but I think Almost50/SRMP would make better wagons. Also I agreed largely with Xtoxm's reads when he gave them

[GuiltyLion]

Hopx on Xtox plz

Convince me to

While we're talking about Almost, this is another thing that pings.

Almost is not interested in finding his own reasons to vote someone, he'd rather be convinced to jump on a wagon.

Seems like a safe way of making a vote on a wagon without getting your hands dirty.

[GuiltyLion]

but in all seriousness, I have been working this hard to find scum all game, if you have a problem with it why not scumread me for it earlier?

What kind of question is this? I've been on you all game.

[GuiltyLion]

I get the feeling you're not reading my posts as a whole, but -instead- are taking picked excerpts. I did state whom I would be comfortable voting for on my own. The town isn't interested though, so we need to come to agree on someone who doesn't strike me as extremely scummy. If that's the case; someone needs to show me wh○7t I've been missing. WHY is Xtoxm an appropriate lynch target? What have they said/done that is so hideous? What do we learn from their flip? It's either-or. Either I vote for X whom I personally think is acting scummy, OR get convinced that lynching Y is beneficial for the town as their flip will clear the view on A, B & C.

You said you wanted to lynch 3dr

On the basis of Ranger's reads and him voting you

That's not a case at all.

Why do you need these airtight scumcases for Xtoxm and Ranger but have no problem voting KTthecreeper while admitting you had no case as you were making the vote?

[GuiltyLion]

I guess actually the best question for you Almost is why on earth do you think 3dr is scum

[GuiltyLion]

then why was your vote off me for 6 pages?

Because there are other players in the game

Are you trying to imply I can't be scumreading someone I'm not voting? What's your current read on me?

[GuiltyLion]

Xtoxm I'd prefer a Ranger lynch over your lynch for sure. But it makes me uncomfortable how Almost is townreading her and SRMP is scumreading her and I'd really like to work that out first today to some degree if I can

[GuiltyLion]

almost50 cut the strawman arguments and the weird gambit shit idk what you're doing man

[GuiltyLion]

I think 61 was a joke. KT did nothing town while he was here but I don't see how you're completely sold on a KT/Karnage/3DR scumteam.

especially the scumread on SpiffKarnage, what exactly is your case there? As far as I can tell it's because of KT voting him, 84, and then Karnage scumreading you... is there anything else there I'm missing?

Your distancing argument feels incredibly shoehorned to me, like I doubt anyone would look at KT's joke-vote-that-lasted-2-hours and think, "oh, he wouldn't do that if Spiffeh was his partner, therefore Spiffeh is town". It was a bad vote from KT but I really can't follow how you're using it to implicate Spiffeh like this.

[GuiltyLion]

egh the deadline is at 10 am my time

I liked Ranger's recent posting, I don't think she or Xtoxm would make a good lynch today. I could go for SRMP, Almost50, or Nosferatu, prefer in that order. Happy to move my vote as needed amongst those three, will unhappily vote anyone else at deadline if no other lynch is possible and my vote is needed.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm here.

VOTE: Almost50

L-2 I believe.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Some Random Mafia Player

[GuiltyLion]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nosferatu

I don't like how he tried to play off like he wasn't assuming mafia made the kill in 480. This is inconsistent with a thought process coming from town who had assumed that mafia made the kill.

Nosferatu has since made it clear that he did believe (and still believes) it was a mafia kill, but when defending himself in 480 he tried to downplay this belief first. It reads like scum trying to deflect accusations rather than town trying to defend their belief.

[GuiltyLion]

Because it's highly improbable it was an sk. The sk even has incentive to not kill because of the risk of there possibly being a tracker. Mafia has people to burn. There's an extremely small chance it was an sk.

I agree with this.

What I want to know is why weren't you saying this in 480?

[GuiltyLion]

Feelin like Nosferatu is SK and SRMP is mafia

Nosferatu is definitely scum of some flavor

[GuiltyLion]

What don't you like about how I hopped onto him, exactly?

[GuiltyLion]

The more I read it the more I don't see how you can reconcile the contradictions between 474 and 480 as coming from a town mindset.

Nosferatu implied that the kill was a mafia kill, then argued that he didn't literally say this and it could have been either scum faction, then doubled down again that it was a mafia kill.

[GuiltyLion]

except it obviously wasn't an unconscious assumption in 474, it was the key point of your entire statement. You thought mafia was SK hunting with that kill. Then you tried to pretend like you weren't thinking that, because ???

[GuiltyLion]

What's hard to believe about somebody posting a thought that they came up with on the spot, forgetting about it after they post, and then realizing again why they reached the conclusion in the first place? I do it all the time.

We disagree that something like "that kill probably came from the mafia because of [x] and [y] reasons" is something that a townie could forget after they post it.

I don't understand why you think the implied reasoning in 474 is something Nosferatu could just "forget" that he was thinking when he made 480

[GuiltyLion]

I never said Nos is conclusively SK

Just that I think he is, and SRMP would be mafia pushing on the minor slip

My problem with Nos cognitive dissonance does not rely on him being SK, and he could also be mafia acting in the same fashion

[GuiltyLion]

To be clear I put more stock in the scumminess of the way Nos defended his slip more than I do the slip itself

[GuiltyLion]

are you guys like not understanding my point about why 480 is basically the scummiest post in the game?

Other than Ank who just straight up disagrees with me, I'm frustrated that you all seem to be focusing more on the 'slip' rather than Nos apparently forgetting his entire line of thinking while he was in the process of defending his 'slip'

[GuiltyLion]

(other than The Bulge and SRMP who are obviously on the same wavelength as me)

[GuiltyLion]

Nice to know forgetfulness is a strong indicator of being scum.

It is, because apparently you forgot why you thought the NK was a mafia NK in the first place, immediately after explaining why you felt this way.

Your response to Dave's push was not to argue your point, it was to suggest that you weren't actually making the point that you were making.

[GuiltyLion]

Although, nosferatu is definitely off the table for today.

whyyyyy

SRMP is probscum but Nos is obvscum

[GuiltyLion]

are you serious 3dr, I've been saying this over and over

Nosferatu literally forgot the argument that he was making between 474 and 480. When accused of slipping about knowing who made the NK, his first instinct was to act like he never said that mafia made the kill, rather than justify

why

he thought mafia made the kill - which he had already done in 474, and did again in 498.

So when Nos made 480, instead of defending his belief, he tried to imply davesaz's push on his belief was incorrect. If he was town who assumed maf made the NK, he would have made 494 and 498 as a response to 475. Not 480. 480 is not a town mindset, it's a scum self-preservationist mindset.

to put in simpler terms, this is the dialogue and Nos' thought process between 464 and 498:
Nos (464): "lol at scum"
Davesaz (472): "?"
Nos (474): "maf obviously thought Almost was right about Karnage being SK"
Davesaz (475/476): "Why do you think maf made the NK?"
Nos (480): "I never said that."
SRMP (482): "yes you did, right here"
Nos (494): "Well it was obviously the maf kill"

as for SRMP, he's been pinging my scumdar the whole game, but that's more of a tone of his posts and contentless-questioning read. I think he's likely scum but he hasn't done anything as egregious as 480.

[GuiltyLion]

how were they back on if they always were there? If you have been scumreading me all game, the bolded implies that to have gotten back on me they had to be off. if they were always on me they couldent get back on (they = scumvibes)

they were gone for all of maybe 100 posts between 126 and 215

have you never doubted yourself on a scumread only to find yourself coming back to it when the player in question continues to look scummy?

I'm having a hard time believing you think this 'contradiction' means anything, or that you can't understand my thought process here.

[GuiltyLion]

Are you proposing he is mafia who knew that wasn't their kill, or sk that knew that wasn't their kill?

Or are you just proposing nos is non-town aligned in general.

I think he could be either, so non-town aligned in general. Again, Nos assuming that the kill was a maf kill I don't really have a problem with. But 480 is just so inconsistent with what he had posted, and what he continued to post afterwards, that it looks like flailing scum panic defense over a minor slip. Bulge said it more concisely in 516

My existing scumread on SRMP combined with the way SRMP went about pushing on this as well - particularly 477 - makes me think SRMP and Nos are scum on two opposite factions.

SRMP, does it matter at all if I say "all game" instead of "the majority of the game except for roughly 100 posts early on"? Like does that distinction mean anything alignment indicative?

[GuiltyLion]

I dont know if it does, but I find it interesting you say something, then say something making the original statement incorrect literally 2 posts later.

okay whatever I'm fine with lynching SRMP if we aren't doing Nos today

[GuiltyLion]

so you contradicting yourself is fine, but with Nos it isent?

This just seems rather odd.

My contradiction is a semantic point.

Nos' contradiction is literally a fundamental change in the argument he was making.

But I'm not surprised that scum don't want to acknowledge this.

[GuiltyLion]

tbh I'm fine with lynching either SRMP or Nos, slightly prefer Nos. Bulge is a definite no go for me at this point in time

[GuiltyLion]

Why I don't want to lynch Bulge - he read the Nos-davesaz back and forth the exact same way as I did, he's Nos' preferred alternative lynch, and I think the only case against him is activity

I don't think scum would push Nos the way he did in 516

[GuiltyLion]

There is one thing that makes me possibly want SRMP over Nos but I want to hear from everyone else first if possible

[GuiltyLion]

That feels like a bit of a loaded question. I certainly wouldn't rule out scum!Ranger given a scum!SRMP flip, I can see where you're coming from. But I'd want to look at Xtoxm as well, he randomly called SRMP a solid townread at one point. And I'm not convinced Ank is town yet either, more activity from him would help clear some things up for me

[GuiltyLion]

yeah, she's not pushing him strongly. But I feel like if they're a team here then sue could have easily steered the lynch towards Nos with an L-1 vote. Like without her vote it'd be much harder for us to deadline lynch SRMP if that's what we decide to do.

I guess it could make sense if she is hoping to have her vote on SRMP with a Nos lynch ultimately going through

[GuiltyLion]

At first I thought it was genuine but the second time it was baffling. I don't see scum motivation in it so I've been just chalking it up to him not paying attention.

Part of me is also considering whether he was doing it to bait scum into pushing him for it

[GuiltyLion]

Hahaha better come to a decision on who to vote before they take over

I wish Ank and Xtoxm would show up and do something

[GuiltyLion]

pisskop now is not the time to be starting vanity wagons

[GuiltyLion]

Theres not really a viable lynch option but nos atp. Let me have my funzies.

I think SRMP is still viable if we get the go ahead from Ank and Nos decides to vote his CW

[GuiltyLion]

Current stance on Ranger?

she's at a similar level to Ank for me, weak town but a candidate for final scum if I'm right about SRMP/Nos

here's where I'm at:
{3dr, pisskop}
{Bulge}
{Ank, Ranger, Xtoxm}
{Nos, SRMP}

someone in the third tier has to be scum but I don't really know who

[GuiltyLion]

ew @ Ank's reads

[GuiltyLion]

I don't see the point of moving my vote from a currently L-2 wagon to an L-3 but I'm happy to vote SRMP if Xtoxm/Nos/pisskop/Ank jump on

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: SRMP
L-1

[GuiltyLion]

I realize that I've been somewhat low-key about things from SRMP that I find particularly scummy, so I'm happy to give the full breakdown of why I think he's scum if anyone asks. Even if he's lynched and flipped town, I'll still do this.

biggest things for me are the way he asks questions that look like surface-level scumhunting but don't really lead anywhere, and his push on pisskop on D1

p-edit: still applies even after hammer

[GuiltyLion]

gg all!

Thanks for modding Marquis, the game was super smooth!

I really thought my reasoning on Nos was indicative... thanks Ank and the rest of town for ignoring me