Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Elias_the_thief]

im gonna be gone for the weekend starting right after school tomorrow. I'll try to post content sunday.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

TonyMoonshine (3)- Thok, Setael, IH
Setael (2)- VitaminR, Skruffs
Guardian (2)- Elias_the_theif, TonyMoonshine
IH (1)- Guardian

Deadline- September 19

[IH]

Guardian, I feel that today a Tony lynch would be better. I have not tried to setup a one two mislynch (Which if Tony is town, then you are most definitely scum), as you have with me and Thok.

Tony has needed to have been lynched a day or two ago.

Hey, how about this? Way to ignore things.

[TonyMoonshine]

Ok, it's not looking good for me. I can see how my frustration can be seen as scummy play. If I'm lynched, hopefully it will shed some light on the game. Before the deadline, (or 5 votes) I will answer any questions and leave my list of who I think is town and scum.

[TonyMoonshine]

I agree with these last two votes. I think I'm going to be adding my vote to this wagon too soon.

I dislike this. Does this help the town or just cover your own butt? Why tell everyone your plan?

I think for everyones sake you should answer this.

[Skruffs]

I was going to say i wasn't sure about tony's'wagon, and, after a brief consideration, i am still unsure about it. Tony's'last post seems indignant about vitr about to vote him, and i thought he was mad that vitr was 'bussing' him, but with a little more thought, i see what he means by 'cover your butt'. VitaminR is indicating he wiLl hammer. While i've not been horribly pleased by tony's'play, his last posts strike me as coming from a townie base. Maybe tony is very good at masking himself? Regardless, vitr and setael are better plays.

[VitaminR]

I dislike this. Does this help the town or just cover your own butt? Why tell everyone your plan?

I think for everyones sake you should answer this.

Two reasons. The first is that I'm still not sure about voting you. My gut is saying you're town, but my mind is saying you're scum and my gut seems to think everyone is town.

The second is that I wanted to see the reactions to it.

*sigh*

I hate how inconsistent this sounds, but I agree for a large part with Skruffs' last post and I will stick to my Setael vote.

[Setael]

@Vitr - Can you give me your reasons for your vote on me? Is that a vote left over from Romanus/Oman, or are you voting for something I have done since replacing? Skruffs' vote I think is pure OMGUS but if you actually have a reason then I'd like to hear it.

@Skruffs - You said in post 1505 that you think vitr is a better lynch than Tony. Is that only because of vitr saying he's willing to vote Tony, or do you have any other reasons?

[VitaminR]

@Vitr - Can you give me your reasons for your vote on me? Is that a vote left over from Romanus/Oman, or are you voting for something I have done since replacing? Skruffs' vote I think is pure OMGUS but if you actually have a reason then I'd like to hear it.

It is mostly left over from Omanus. You actually quite sound reasonable (though I haven't caught anything specifically pro-town off you).

[Setael]

Ok... Vitr, can you give us the reasons you think Tony is Town? That might be helpful.

[Guardian]

Vitr and Skruffs both have expressed suspicion of IH all game, and then ended up voting someone else.

Setael, why don't you find IH suspicious?

Tony? Elias?


I like the Tony wagon more than the me and Setael wagon, but seriously IH's entry and then statement "Way to ignore things" really is so bad. He makes a huge post about all my faults... and then votes Tony. Sure, he says he likes Tony more -- but WHY?

It seems like misdirection -- build a case on Guardian, lynch Tony.


VitaminR -- also -- I thought you were "just about ready" to vote for Tony? I'm happy you aren't now, but what changed your mind? Also, you were going to vote IH, if not Tony. Why change from that?

[IH]

Guardian, I feel that today a Tony lynch would be better. I have not tried to setup a one two mislynch (Which if Tony is town, then you are most definitely scum), as you have with me and Thok.

Tony has needed to have been lynched a day or two ago.

I messed this up in my last psot I quoted it.

Response?

Also, haven't I attacked you for things of that nature the past few days?

[VitaminR]

Ok... Vitr, can you give us the reasons you think Tony is Town? That might be helpful.

He's too angry and consistently unhelpful. It just seems way too obvious.

Guardian, I was torn on Tony already and I suppose his desperation seemed sincere.

Also, I do think IH is a good lynch and will change votes if it helps secure an IH lynch.

[IH]

So......... he's too scummy to be scum? Seriously?

[Setael]

Vitr is seeming more and more opportunistic with his vote. He said he was going to vote Tony, but then changed his mind as soon as Tony got defensive. Now he says he'd vote IH if somebody else gets more of a wagon going. His vote is on me, but he can't give any real reason why. If he thinks IH is scum, why is his vote not on IH? Why say he is willing to vote IH, but then not do it? He seems to be playing it safe with the noncommital attitude, and I feel like he is trying to subtly distract and guide the lynch so that he doesn't have to take any of the heat if someone comes up Town.

Skruffs isn't much better. The only reason he has for voting me is because I presented a case on him.

[VitaminR]

So......... he's too scummy to be scum? Seriously?

Yes, that's my gut feeling.

Setael, I was just clarifying my position on IH towards Guardian.

[IH]

1.Thats horrible

2.So you're essentially going with whatever works it seems. Or at least trying to stay on Guardians goodside?

[Elias_the_thief]

i have no idea what to think in this game, im way over my head. Im not going to try to cope like guardian does, and yell that someone is scum, but I need time to think before I do anything...

but to the matter of me thinking Romanus was scum early game...didnt I go over how I was basically lurking the first 3/4 of this game? I really didnt have anything solid to base it on except one contradiction that he later explained.

[Thok]

It vaguely amuses me that I haven't posted anything in this game for 5 days, and yet nobody is calling for my head over that.

@Tony-I don't expect a novel from you. I do expect you to actually try to follow up on your suspicions. You've claimed that Guardian was trying to divide and conquer-if so you ought to be able to say something about what that means for the people Guardian was trying to take to end game.

As for what questions you haven't answered-as I said look at questions b.-e. im post 1163, and also the questions from post 1231

That said, I have fairly low standards in what I expect you to say. You've had plenty of time to respond to these or to make an actual list of your suspicions (or at least one with a little more substance than the list you've made earlier, in which you essentially only gave your opinion on one person). All you seem to be doing is tossing out a one time gut reaction and then repeating the thought that goes with that.
-------------------

VitR, have you thought about the Guardian case at all? I know it's less relevant given the shift in voting, but you went from "The reasons for voting Guardian are weak" to "I haven't looked at the reasons people are voting for Guardian at all".

Skruffs jumping back into the game after Setael called him out is notable.

Guardian's shifting his choice of targets by the post, IH hasn't been posting much and has only been making vague theorish comments, and we all seem to be waiting for a Tony analysis of the game that IMHO isn't likely to be all that insightful. I also suspect that townTony would respond to his wagon by focusing even harder on Guardian as opposed to trying to make a last second contribution to the game.

I sort of just want most of you to be suddenly struck down by modkills.

[Guardian]

The not voting IH and level of apathy/notposting currently in this game are inexcusable.

I'm going to speed re-read on Tony and Setael tonight and pick one, if no one moves to IH.

IH is infinitely preferable right now. Seriously, more votes to IH please. IH scum needs to be lynched today.

[Setael]

It vaguely amuses me that I haven't posted anything in this game for 5 days, and yet nobody is calling for my head over that.

Well Thok, maybe you're feeling a little bit of what I've been feeling - annoyance that no matter what you do, everyone has decided to trust you implicitly. I'm not a bit surprised that none of them called you out for not posting and I've certainly seen that me doing it over and over is not going to do any good.

I thought about voting IH just to call Vitr's bluff, since I didn't think he would really vote IH any more than he ever planned to really vote Tony. Maybe I'm wrong and Vitr would vote for IH, but when IH came up Town I'm sure he knows he could easily push all the blame onto Guardian. I still think IH is Town and Skruffs is scum, and Vitr's last few posts have started me thinking that I could be wrong that the third is either Elias or Thok. Maybe it's Tony-Skruffs-Vitr, but regardless of who the third one is, I'm perfectly happy with my Tony vote.

[IH]

Guardian, I feel that today a Tony lynch would be better. I have not tried to setup a one two mislynch (Which if Tony is town, then you are most definitely scum), as you have with me and Thok.

Tony has needed to have been lynched a day or two ago.

Posted for the third time for Guardian's benefit.

[Guardian]

IH, I've responded to that... I didn't re-quote it, but I've definitely addressed the subject.

Is there anything specifically more you want from me on the subject of you building a huge case on me then voting Tony?

---

Setael, I would vote IH for that among a myriad of other reasons. I think VitaminR is actually not bluffing, and that we could get an IH lynch today...

[Setael]

Guardian maybe you missed where I said I don’t think IH is scum. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that you could be wrong about him? You could be right that Vitr would vote for IH, but if so it's just as likely that it's because Vitr is scum and knows IH would come up Town. Plus why did Vitr merely say he was WILLING to vote? Why didn't he just vote? He admitted that his reasons for voting me are pretty weak, so why not change his vote to IH if he thinks IH is scum. I don't think I need to change my vote to prove that he's being opportunistic. His reasons for not voting Tony are garbage as far as I'm concerned. He says Tony seems too obviously scummy and that "his desperation seemed sincere." Well if that desperation was so sincere, I'd think Tony would have posted at least once in the last few days. Tony is just lurking again, which I think is the last thing a pro-Town player would do this close to a deadline when he has the most votes.

Skruffs’ reasons are even worse than Tony's. He tells us that after briefly considering the Tony case, he is unsure about it. 2 points for being as noncommittal as possible. As Thok noticed, Skruffs only started posting because I pointed out his lurking and even now is only posting just enough content to stay neutral on almost every single person.

If Tony comes up Town, which I highly doubt, then I will rethink my scum list and look at IH again. But if he comes up scum, I know where I'll be looking.

[TonyMoonshine]

b. At the time you made accusation 3, Aimee was still alive and you were voting Aimee prior to your accusation. Why did you decide that Guardian was scum trying defend a townie (and not some other pair of alignments involving Aimee and Guardian)?

c. How is the Aimee-Guardian relationship any different from the relationship between you and Occult? [leading question]Were you trying to appear too townie by protecting him?[/leading question]

d. I'd like to see a clear explanation of what you feel Guardian was trying to accomplish with his plan and why we should see it as scummy. I don't want to hear some useless pop phrase like "divide and conquer".

e. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the other people on the Guardian wagon, and their arguments against Guardian.

b. I didn't see any benefit for Guardian to defend Aimee assuming Guardian is town. It's one of many examples where I feel Guardian has gone over the top to appear town. He's more worried about what others think of him than finding scum.

c. I don't remember "protecting" Occult. I remember saying we're more likely to lynch a townie than scum on day 1 so let's make sure we explore more options. Lynching a townie day 1 is only helpful when it provides useful information.

d. Again, this is yet another example of Guardian working overtime to appear town. Assuming he's scum, if he was able to pull of his plan he could manipulate those on his side.

e. Prior to post 595 Guardian has a lot of information on where Elias, Romanus (Set) and Vitr stand. Let's assume all 3 or at least 2 are town, he can pretend to share the same suspicions and together they could vote people off. Rom's (Set) response seems to stand out the most becuase he was very adamant about having nothing to do with it. He could have said "no thanks" , but instead took a strong stance against it. Elias at the time seemed to have a healthy suspicion of everyone. And, I'm not sure if Vitr commented on it. I was also adamant against his plan because I did not want to be run over by the coalition of the manipulated.