NY 186: Mafia In Japan - Mafia Victory!

[Dessew]

Hey, chaps, let's shout a big hurray for the replacement & whatnot, whatever.
I've read the first few pages only, so all I can do right now is to address the elephant in the room.

Give me a good reason why I shouldn't hammer someone Day 1 who is null-lean scum who everyone else has already put, and seemingly okay with, them being at L-1?

Argumentum ad populum

That, in fact, was not an argumentum ad popolum.
I'll give you some actual content after I've finished reading.

[Dessew]

VOTE: KlingonCelt
Obey the Cain.
Actually, she seems reluctant to discuss nearly (might be an understatement) anything game-related, such as her own vote or NC's case on her, as he has pointed it out before.

@PM:

hey there! Could you, please do me a favour, & post at least twice a day? Those posts don't have to be particularly insightful, just have them have content. Thank you.

[Dessew]

Since this quicklynch thing's been brought up: I've been wondering, is ika then a universal quicklyncher or does he quickhammer only on D1? It's unclear.

[Dessew]

I have just realized that Klingoncelt is V/LA. :/

@ika:

Why do you exactly think that NC should die?

@PM:

I've read your case on Klingoncelt, but I have only vague ideas about your other reads. A few words about each would be great, so I could have a grasp on them.
Even if you'd technically just repeat other people, a short (but fairly followable) summary of your thoughts & impressions on the gamestate in each of your posts would be lovely. As long as no one gets vulgar / too aggressive about it, it shouldn't be VI'ish.

[Dessew]

/yawn

I hope Klingoncelt's RL stuff will be settled soon. It must suck, however she's kinda a central player to this game right now.

I have no idea what some posts from Espe are about. I wouldn't call that a problem, though, I just thought it may be worth mentioning, but perhaps it's just me who's too thick to understand.
OTOH, it does bother me that the only argument for Nero being scum I can recall is just meta (PEDIT: oh, & greyfox's stuff, of course. Frankly, I find that xase quite slippery, but let's say it's fair enough, for the sake of simplicity, so is it

the

definitive case against Nero?)

[Dessew]

VOTE: KlingonCelt
Obey the Cain.
Actually, she seems reluctant to discuss nearly (might be an understatement) anything game-related, such as her own vote or NC's case on her, as he has pointed it out before.

@PM:

hey there! Could you, please do me a favour, & post at least twice a day? Those posts don't have to be particularly insightful, just have them have content. Thank you.

Why just PM getting the callout here?

I wanted (& still want) him to get more involved. Well, no, "involved" isn't a good word, I just want him to express his thoughts about the game. I believe it'd be advantageous for us.

[Dessew]

Okay, so

@Klingoncelt:

This could be considered to be the cornerstone (cornerpost?) of my vote on you, so instead of spreading us too much, let's just focus on this one:

look at who is still ignoring my case on her.

You have a "case" on someone?

You were clearly reading at that point, based on your other posts around that time, yet you claimed you didn't know about a relatively well-articualted case on

you

, made by a

scumsuspect of yours

. & even if I believe that that's true (frankly, quite difficult to do so), there's still that you didn't look up the case but kept up the tradition of non-content, moreover, in such a way, that, to be honest, "makes one's palm itchy", so to say.
To sum up: both the "content" & the tone of #256 hurt town in a way that seems deliberate.

[Dessew]

Sorry for the triple post, but I wanted to add that I'm glad your son made it. I must be a great relief for you.

[Dessew]

VOTE: KlingonCelt
Obey the Cain.
Actually, she seems reluctant to discuss nearly (might be an understatement) anything game-related, such as her own vote or NC's case on her, as he has pointed it out before.

@PM:

hey there! Could you, please do me a favour, & post at least twice a day? Those posts don't have to be particularly insightful, just have them have content. Thank you.

Why just PM getting the callout here?

I wanted (& still want) him to get more involved. Well, no, "involved" isn't a good word, I just want him to express his thoughts about the game. I believe it'd be advantageous for us.

A lot of people could fall into this. I found it interesting you singled pm out.

They could, but they don't.

Okay, so

@Klingoncelt:

This could be considered to be the cornerstone (cornerpost?) of my vote on you, so instead of spreading us too much, let's just focus on this one:

look at who is still ignoring my case on her.

You have a "case" on someone?

You were clearly reading at that point, based on your other posts around that time, yet you claimed you didn't know about a relatively well-articualted case on

you

, made by a

scumsuspect of yours

. & even if I believe that that's true (frankly, quite difficult to do so), there's still that you didn't look up the case but kept up the tradition of non-content, moreover, in such a way, that, to be honest, "makes one's palm itchy", so to say.
To sum up: both the "content" & the tone of #256 hurt town in a way that seems deliberate.

Nero has no case on me. He's making up a bunch of bullshit and throwing it at the wall hoping something will stick.

I'll make it easy for you - no one can build a Scum case against me. Why? Because I'm not Scum.

By case, I mean this:

I think Nero's Scum.

here celt calls me scum but doesn't vote. If she thought I was scum then why would she not vote?

Its also interesting to note that this very similar to the way that I called her scumbuddy House out and she attacked me over it but did not vote me. You can read about it here

this from celt is extremely manipulative.

She's also avoiding answering things. Like she didn't explain why she wasn't voting me at first and she's being noncommittal as to why she was scum reading me and all we got is this meaningless hogwash as if if her "Nero is scummy for his style" isn't vague enough.

This is defintely a case.

Well Cain, I would be pleased to tell you. The reason for me being so convinced Celt will flip town is borne out of the fact that I don't buy into the arguments of him being scum (and a 1/19 probability). Didn't see nothing inherently VI, but either way, VI moves aren't scum moves, nor are anti-town moves scum moves.

How do you get your numbers?

[Dessew]

We'll resist the urge to PL Ika tommorow. I am going to straight up murder Espeonage, Tere, or Quaroth tommorow, Bcus one of those mofos is scum.

Tere? Why?

[Dessew]

Tere? Why?

Let me explain this in terms you can understand. At what age did your mother stop breastfeeding you?

My question was serious.

[Dessew]

You don't need to make a case on her now. She's already lynched.

[Dessew]

Get off Boon, please. He's claimed mason, the rest is obviously just raging. The claim went in an unsatisfying way, we can agree on that, but the damage is already done, let's take the most out of it, so stop bickering now.
I strongly oppose a PM lynch for now. Getting much more posts & content would be incredibly nice, though. (I might take a glance at his meta, that should be useful.)
I'll look at WW, but I'm busy at the moment. However, I'll get to it later today.

[Dessew]

Alright, guys, so I'm a miller. Also, I'm a mason with pisskop.

:\
I feel stupid.

[Dessew]

I've read WW's iso, I see that he was voting NC in kinda the same way as ika was. It's not the same, but similar. The difference is that WW was still engaged in this or that conversation, while ika was technically non-playing. Tbh, I feel an urge to just scream scum & tunnel, but that case would resemble NC's original case on KC in many respects, & she was town (not to mention that I've been wrong in all possible ways so far (except for Sala.)) I'll probably give it another look after thinking about it for a while.

Here's a post I found while skimming Boon's iso:

Honestly, if the other mason doesn't claim now, it just gives scum an easy fake claim 1v1 situation later, and we have a chance at lynching a confirmed townie rather than it getting NK'd.

Okay I really want to lynch this.

First, how are you able to know there's only one more mason? Your wording suggests you do.

Second, why wouldn't you want scum to fakeclaim that at some point? Wouldn't that catch us a scum even if we have to decipher between who is and who isn't? ONE of them would at least be scum. That to me is a positive.

Also since you just mentioned it could be a fakeclaim, how are you sure it would confirm a townie?

This is terrible.

Kaboose, I'd like to know what the point of your "First" was, thanks.

[Dessew]

Yeah, but what was the point? Why did you bring it up? Was it scummy?

[Dessew]

No, not really.
Are you saying that correct townplay would be assuming that it's a pair of masons, but concealing this assumption?
Please, make statements about alignment as well. You said you wanted to lynch him, & that "First" was your follow-up. What you're pointing out might make sense, as stating "he was irrational" or "he was stupid", but really, I mostly care about alignment.

[Dessew]

Why? We should lynch out of the {Boon, PM, Q} pool, & Boon is by far the best choice right now.

Here's what your comment looked like from my point of you: "This guy seems to know how many masons there are. Let's lynch him." This is the impression I've got, so explain your post with that in mind.

[Dessew]

I felt he was asking without actually caring how many masons there were. Which if he wanted them to claim he would care about how many there were. To me anyways.

I'm incredibly tired right now, so sorry if w/e.
I don't see how caring about the number of masons is alignment indicative. If you could spell that out for me, that'd be amazing.
In your original post you didn't say he didn't care, you saud he seemed to know, that's a huge difference.
I think we're going in circles, so let's do this: instead of answering to questions one at a time, make a post where you make it entirely clear a) what the underlying logic in your post was b) what your thoughts were at the time c) how & to what extent the things you noticed were alingment indicative. If you're town, you must see how making your statements as clear as possible is beneficial, so please do this, it'd be a great help.
I currently have no idea how many votes there are on Boon, & I don't want to accidentally hammer. Anyway, I'm fine with a relatively quick Boon lynch.

[Dessew]

Is everyone done for today? I intend to iso Kaboose, but it's not urgent. Actually, let's end this day, there's no point in making it any longer.
VOTE: Boonskiies

This is L-1, I believe.

[Dessew]

One thing to add, tomorrow we should discuss those who have been endorsing this Boon-town madness. Neither millers nor masons fakeclaim mason with someone they are not masons with (they also don't claim jokingly in their first posts.)

PEDIT: Boon demonstrating my point. Actually, if some of you really believed him, he deserves an applause or something.

[Dessew]

If you were, I'd be really disappointed.

[Dessew]

^That's actually the kind of tone I'm trying to get rid of from my everyday life, it's unnecessarely hurtful. I apologise.

[Dessew]

Just a quick check-in.

What is the sitemeta for multiball scumgame?

[Dessew]

I've slacked off pretty vadly recently.
So Tere is anti-town. A lynch would be fine by me in the not too distant future, but not just now, first I'd like to lokk into this & that, & see if I can say anything that's worth mentioning.

[Dessew]

Anyone not voting tere better explain why in their next post...

He's dead.

[Dessew]

Anyone not voting tere better explain why in their next post...

She's dead.

corrected

Sorry, I didn't notice.
Anyway, I've been quite lazy recently. I have a few thoughts, but I haven't done the reading to evaluate them properly.
In the meantime, I'd actually like to know what the sitemeta scumgame for multiball is. You must've thought that I was joking the first time I asked, if so, you all have some extraordinary senses of humour.

[Dessew]

Okay, so if there is an established norm for multiball, then consider this:
The NKs can be groupped like this:
Grayfox, Espe & Radja
Constantine, Sala & DGB
Now, we could argue over the quality of the plays & a million other things, but the first three players could be as potential (mis)lynch targets at the time of submitting the relevant NKs, while the deaths of the second three could be considered to be a detriment to us. What I'm saying is that every night so far there has been a kill clearly made by the mafia, but the other deaths seem to be vig-kills. My conclusion is that there is only one mafia faction, so based on Tere's interactions with Kaboose, he is innocent. (I hope it's not redundant, I'm pretty sure that role cop used to be a scummy role.)

[Dessew]

The dawn comes.

Radja has died! He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

DrippingGoofball has died! He was a

Mason

.

Votecount #4.0

Kaboose

Nero Cain

I Am Innocent

OhGodMyLife

ika

evilpacman18

Kitty Galore

ConManMick

Dessew

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(10): Nero Cain, ika, I am Innocent, OhGodMyLife, Kitty Galore, Kaboose, Dessew, ConManMick, evilpacman18, Xtoxm

With

10

alive it's

6

to lynch.

Night will fall in (expired on 2015-08-15 11:00:00).

The dawn comes.

Radja has died! He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

DrippingGoofball has died! He was a

Mason

.

Votecount #4.0

Kaboose

Nero Cain

I Am Innocent

OhGodMyLife

ika

evilpacman18

Kitty Galore

ConManMick

Dessew

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(10): Nero Cain, ika, I am Innocent, OhGodMyLife, Kitty Galore, Kaboose, Dessew, ConManMick, evilpacman18, Xtoxm

With

10

alive it's

6

to lynch.

Night will fall in (expired on 2015-08-15 11:00:00).

@RC: Could this be fixed, please?

[Dessew]

@RC: Could this be fixed, please?

Not sure what you're referring to

Those two posts are supposed to be different, yet they are not. It makes navigation around them difficult.

[Dessew]

Because you don't put a role in a game called "investigation immune traitor" and then put in a town investigative that can get a result on it.

He's a scum rolecop.

Speedlynch him and stuff.

Having an IC & 3 masons with a cop would be a bit overboard, so there's that. OTOH, then why would have Tere wanted to lynch Kaboose so badly?

[Dessew]

@everyone not named Nero, kaboose, and xtoxm, why no vote? Where are you leaning?

I'm trying to make a decent case right now. When I've put together or seen one, I'll vote.

[Dessew]

NC: what happened to your ika read?

[Dessew]

changed my mind.

Where are ANY of your reads?

Why?
They are in the making. My scumpool is you, ika, pacman, kitty & mick. As you can see, that's one too many, so I'm reading these ISOs & certain key moments for a short time daily & try to have only 4 people there or find a decent case on one of you.

What exactly is the case on Dessew

This whole game, Dessew has made TWO votes...both on players who haved flipped town:

VOTE: KlingonCelt
Obey the Cain.
Actually, she seems reluctant to discuss nearly (might be an understatement) anything game-related, such as her own vote or NC's case on her, as he has pointed it out before.

@PM:

hey there! Could you, please do me a favour, & post at least twice a day? Those posts don't have to be particularly insightful, just have them have content. Thank you.

Day 1 vote, was the 7th on the wagon (L-3).

That's when I replaced and caught up. I could be 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th.

Is everyone done for today? I intend to iso Kaboose, but it's not urgent. Actually, let's end this day, there's no point in making it any longer.
VOTE: Boonskiies

This is L-1, I believe.

Hardly to blame for this vote with all the antics Boon pulled D2.

But that's it. 0 for 2 on scum votes this whole game.

And D3 when the Tere wagon happened, this is all we got:

I've slacked off pretty vadly recently.
So Tere is anti-town. A lynch would be fine by me in the not too distant future, but not just now, first I'd like to lokk into this & that, & see if I can say anything that's worth mentioning.

Despite being anti-town, refuses to vote Tere. Doesn't want to end the day, but when he put Boon at L-1 (for also what I would consider being anti-town), Dessew had no problem suggesting "Actually, let's end this day, there's no point in making it any longer"

Fair enough. What else did you want to do on D2? What I saw was Espe lamenting whether Boon could've been mason in a separate group from PM & Q while still being together with greyfox & other shenanigans, I didn't need more day time & I especially didn't want any nonsense to catch on.

Did scum figure out by D3 that Tere was the traitor. Possibly. The one game I played in where I was a traitor, scum had figured out by D3 who the traitor was. If this scum group did as well, this does not bode well for a player who had no problem joining the hottest two wagons D1 & D2 but avoiding the scum one D3.

Tere was pretty much lynched by that point, so I can't see why scum wouldn't have wanted to vote her, if you could walk me through or something. Also, what's really the difference between voting & not voting but calling a player scum & stating that I was fine with her lynch?

But the deciding post for drawing my vote was this:

Okay, so if there is an established norm for multiball, then consider this:
The NKs can be groupped like this:
Grayfox, Espe & Radja
Constantine, Sala & DGB
Now, we could argue over the quality of the plays & a million other things, but the first three players could be as potential (mis)lynch targets at the time of submitting the relevant NKs, while the deaths of the second three could be considered to be a detriment to us. What I'm saying is that every night so far there has been a kill clearly made by the mafia, but the other deaths seem to be vig-kills. My conclusion is that there is only one mafia faction, so based on Tere's interactions with Kaboose, he is innocent. (I hope it's not redundant, I'm pretty sure that role cop used to be a scummy role.)

While I see a big difference in the N2 & N3 targets (two players had shady vote histories, while the other two were a confirmed ascetic crier and un-counterclaimed Mason), the N1 involved two players,

neither of which had a vote cast against them this game

. And on gut, I would have considered Grayfox as the one who seemed to be under more scrutiny D1. Yet Dessew seems sure that Grayfox is in the group of "potential (mis)lynch targets" while Constantine is in the group of kills "considered to be a detriment to us." Was hoping someone else saw this, but apparently I'm in the minority on this one? To me is sounds like a scum slip on someone who has inside information.

That coupled with the votes/non-cast votes on D1-D3 makes Dessew my #1 suspect.

This is actually a fair point. To be honest, I didn't look back at the actualy plays, I only checked the deaths & deduced based on the little impression I had. Looking back at their actual posts, I still think that the Greyfox kill could've been made out of town intentions & the hermit kill out of scum intentions, but it could've been the other way around (or both scum intentions, or both town intentions, but the later kills don't correlate with those two hypothesises.)
I can bring up two points right now, assuming that apparently you believe that there just one scum team (I guess? Given that you think I've given out inside info), & that general consensus on greyfox & constantine is the opposite of mine. Firstly, if I were scum, I'd have 2 or more likely 3 buddies, who either thought what I think or didn't vocalize their disaggreement. There is daychat, so I believe that'd be unlikely. Secondly, I suppose it'd have been much easier for me as scum to push Kaboose instead of townreading him, since I've already mentioned my concerns about his interaction with Boon on D2.

[Dessew]

FYI, it's 33 °C here, it's too hot to think, so I'll post later during the weekend, but not now.

[Dessew]

I'll make a wild guess, & say that Kitty is the town. So that makes the scumteam: Nero, ika, pacman, mick.

The only scenario I can imagine in which my death would lead to our certain defeat is Kaboose being scum, but really, that'd mean I'm wrong about literally everything, & I'd like to think I'm a bit better than that. So, anyway, I'm noz exactly adamant to stay alive.

A few words about the townreads: Kaboose & Xsomthing are obvious, I've already said everything of merit about them.
Kitty seems to actually try to catch up, I think she'd ask for a quick recap if she was scum (given that her buddies could do that in their PT anyway, so why bother?)
IAI's 557's second half is something I cannot see coming from scum.
OGML hasn't done much, but pk's ISO is very town, I'm not going to single out any posts, but this read is much more solid than the two above.

Sidenote: if Kaboose finds a cop, he should out them, because they're scum.

VOTE: evilpacman18

[Dessew]

hey des, a few questions.

What is your case on me and did you believe Tere's cop claim yesterday?

PoE
No. I arrived late to that day, but I believe IAI put it in the way I thought at the time. Three masons & and IC gives us enough confirmed innocents, an additional cop would be too much.

[Dessew]

Yes, I did. When did I say otherwise?

[Dessew]

Dessew, why evil from that group of 4?

You know, there are those children songs, used to determine who seeks first when playing hide-and-seek or who starts a board game &c.

[Dessew]

This game has been so dead given the claims I've made. I come out and claim... Dead.

No one even answered my question about what people thought about me being scum or town role cop.

Okay, so if there is an established norm for multiball, then consider this:
The NKs can be groupped like this:
Grayfox, Espe & Radja
Constantine, Sala & DGB
Now, we could argue over the quality of the plays & a million other things, but the first three players could be as potential (mis)lynch targets at the time of submitting the relevant NKs, while the deaths of the second three could be considered to be a detriment to us. What I'm saying is that every night so far there has been a kill clearly made by the mafia, but the other deaths seem to be vig-kills. My conclusion is that there is only one mafia faction, so based on Tere's interactions with

Kaboose, he is innocent

. (I hope it's not redundant, I'm pretty sure that role cop used to be a scummy role.)

(Bolded by me.)
(I'm mildly annoyed.)

[Dessew]

I'm not quite sure what your point is, Nero. Did I say what you claimed I had said or not? If not what's the deal? That I used the word "anti-town"? She could've been werewolf or hell knows what, is using semantics correctly now a scumtell? (I mean you will obviously try to oush my wagon no matter what because of alignment shenannigans, but, please, do it at least in a way that looks credible at least from a certain distance.)

[Dessew]

This lynch needs to happen, no other lynch is going to happen today at this rate.

I actually contemplated the idea of self-hammering for a moment, but no. There is no current case on me. NC went dadaist, IAI hasn't reacted anything to what I said about his case on me, so there is no sign of me going to be lynched tomorrow if I make this day. I'd rather have no lynch than that of one of my townread or of mine. If you want another lynch, vote someone else.

[Dessew]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Dessew]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to lynch any of {NC, ika, Mario, Mick} (if I know correctly who replaced whom) to no-lynching, but seriously, don't lose your head. The most likely scenario is that there's a scumteam of four left. If we just want to achieve any lynch, they will clearly dominate the town, so the lynch would end up being town. They just put three votes on someone & it's pretty much decided with very little risk.
With that said, let's lynch NC (or ika or Mario or Mick, idc.)

PEDIT: now, now, you've just entered nonsense zone.

[Dessew]

Wait, how does the lack of counterwagon imply that every scum was on it? & you forgot to "townread" Kaboose.

[Dessew]

Wait, how does the lack of counterwagon imply that every scum was on it? & you forgot to "townread" Kaboose.

I never said every scum was it...
Also I never discussed any read on Kaboose at all yet. Do you think there are 4 scum left? Because if you do I am conftown to you.

Mea culpa, you're right. Then how does the lack of a counterwagon imply that most scum were on the wagon?
You listed Kaboose as one of the possible scum, so you forgot to "townread" him. I just told you, so you know. His alignment was/is kind of one of the cornerstones of this game.
Yes, I believe there are fozr scum left. No, you're not conftown, I mean you replaced pacman, right? He wasn't conftown, I was scumreading him by PoE.

PEDIT: Are you skipping arguments purposely? Why is that VC so damning to Kitty?

[Dessew]

EPM has been replaced by MarioManiac4!

You are the pacman-slot!

[Dessew]

Wait, how does the lack of counterwagon imply that every scum was on it? & you forgot to "townread" Kaboose.

I never said every scum was it...
Also I never discussed any read on Kaboose at all yet. Do you think there are 4 scum left? Because if you do I am conftown to you.

Mea culpa, you're right. Then how does the lack of a counterwagon imply that most scum were on the wagon?
You listed Kaboose as one of the possible scum, so you forgot to "townread" him. I just told you, so you know. His alignment was/is kind of one of the cornerstones of this game.
Yes, I believe there are fozr scum left. No, you're not conftown, I mean you replaced pacman, right? He wasn't conftown, I was scumreading him by PoE.

PEDIT: Are you skipping arguments purposely? Why is that VC so damning to Kitty?

I think off the wagon scum would be trying to appear like they want their target lynched. In my opinion, there being no counterwagon is generally a towntell, and scum would want to counter this. I suppose you people don't agree, because Klingon was lynched anyway.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I listed four on the Klingon wagon that aren't conftown, and I argued three were probably scum. It had nothing to do with reads. I think I'm going to look in detail at the Kaboose claim next.
And sorry, I derped. I thought it was 5 to lynch, which would make me confirmed town by virtue of not hammering. I think it'd be damning to Galore because I don't think all scum would either jump on Tere or not vote, and at least one would vote away, especially since the scum may have suspected Tere!traitor.

This counterwagon stuff does make sense. OTOH, I don't remember if anyone mentioned any concerns about any counterwagon, so even if it was brought up, it went over our heads.
Even is I was at L-1, that wouldn't make you conftown, I believe. If I'm right, there's a Vig, so the game would probably not end after a townie lynch, thus scum cannot do anything they want.
On this Tere thing we completely disagree. WW replaced our when Tere was on just L-3 & before her cop-claim.

[Dessew]

VOTE: Dessew

Dessew only started to get slightly more active when he was pointed at.

That's true, why is it scummy?

He just screams Mafia too.

I'm using PoE, it's not elegant, but that's what I've got. OTOH, I've refuted IAI's case on me, I refuted NC's as long as it made some sense, I'm refuting this one right now, by the end of this post the only valid reason to scumread me will be that little thing from Mario.

He was trying to prevent the Tere lynch

This is false.

(And questioned earlier when Hermit said Tere is scum),

Gasp? Yes, I was townreading Tere at the time, who was a scum traitor whose identity scum was not told about.

he was obviously baiting the Masons to reveal

Where? It's false

and Tere left his read out in his post.

I was the only player whom she left out, afaik, so if I was here buddy, why didn't she firget anyone else? IIRC, I didn't even interact with her. You'd really expect some interaction by D3 if I was scum.

[Dessew]

Why is lurking until people start suspecting you more scummy?
Because you were obviously trying to keep out of sight overall.

I wasn't lurking. First day I was pushing the KC wagon technically as soon as I caught up, the other two days were relatively short.

No, there are many things to scum read you. The other people I have possible scum you seem to have little to no involvement with in the game.

Who are they? If you're pulling some bloody assiciation tells, you'd better tell us whom I'm associated with.

So Tere is anti-town. A lynch would be fine by me in the not too distant future, but not just now, first I'd like to lokk into this & that, & see if I can say anything that's worth mentioning.

This is an easy save attempt on what is an obvious fake claim.

No it isn't, I explicitely said: lynching her was fine. But I wanted to check if there was even anything worth commenting on, & possibly discuss that, so it wouldn't be forgotten.

Tere comes across as scummy very early, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mafia picked up on this.

No, she didn't. Sala (flipped town) agrees me, so it's not just my impression.

The fact that you said Boonskiies was a Mason, when he clearly wasn't. That's a typical bait to me.

He claimed mason. /facepalm

Why didn't she forget anyone else? I'm pretty sure that she did, but I will have to confirm that later. I would expect that the reads were split up as a safety net.

If it helps, I also think that Mick is scum.

You haven't answered the question.

Did you claim btw a role? I can't seem to find that you did.

I stick to the usual claiming conventions, L-1, intent to hammer, then I claim. It's not like it matters, since I've been the leading wagon for days anyway.

[Dessew]

It's my last post before the deadline, I won't be around, unfortunately. I see no intent, so it seems I'm not claiming today. I stick to my reads from before. Note that (even though he seems to be a rather nice chap,) Mario is still probably scum; also note that his catching up posts are not a towntell all by themselves by any means because I've already stated that I was townreading Kitty for actually doing a catching-up.

@Mario:

(It's off-topic.) I've been thinking about what you said regarding the lack of counterwagons being a towntell, & I must say I'm deeply conflicted. You see, what you're claiming seems to be intuitive, however, if you actually want to implement this piece of knowledge into your play, either you're essentially going to build counterwagons most of the time or you will advocate abandoning wagons while offering no alternative. The former kind of undermines your point, the latter is generally perceived as harmful (which opinion I personally share.) I'd really like to hear your detailed stance on the matter

after

the game, thanks in advance.

[Dessew]

Don't even ask what I'm going through just to get to post this.
VOTE: Dessew
I realized just half an hour ago that, since we've lost some of the sensible town players to the replacements, if I don't die now, I'd probably die at a much more inconvinient time. So this is the one way I can avoid us having a 4 vs 4 situation.
Don't forget my reads, perhaps discard them if some circumstances change, but don't forget them.

[Dessew]

Congrats, nice scumplay.