Open 30 - Fire and Ice (Game Over!) - before 470

[Vendagoat]

VOTE: AutumnEvenings

because I like sitting on the deck during those with a gin and tonic and smelling the wood fires.

[Vendagoat]

Wow all that hate for xxyxyxxy...for xyxyyxyxyyx.... for xyxy...oh forget it.

[Vendagoat]

That reminds me...

Goats are just as bad.

FOS: Vendagoat

The chupacabra takes care of them though.

You insensitive jerk! My Father was just eaten by the chupacabra last week. It was a nice service, considering all that was left was a hoof and his gruff.

[Vendagoat]

Xyzzy, if you had to pick

one

person on your wagon as scum right now, who do you think you'd pick based on the little we've seen?

I'd pick you. Asking me to answer a question like that with no information fells like a trap.

This, this is just silly.
FOS: Mert and Xyzzy. Could this just be a distraction for something else?

[Vendagoat]

FoS:XYZ Dear god man, you fly around more than a moth with gas.

[Vendagoat]

Ok so far we have two pairs of two going back and forth right now.
Glork and Sefar are both arguing and Xyz and Mert. So now the question is are these the two mafia groups stirring up trouble?

FOS: all four of you. Because so far it's all crap logic started from a bandwagon vote. Problem is, Xyz is still flying around all willy nilly like and that to me is very scummy. Second biggest scum trait is the constant barrage of accusations, thats Glork in my eyes.

I'm a bit hesitant to put another vote on XYZ as it would bring him -2 coupled that we still have a day or two to still talk I am going to hold off till sometime Tuesday to vote.

Till then I am keeping my eyes open. Oh and I guess since I have a random vote out I better cancel that till Tuesday.

UNVOTE

[Vendagoat]

Oy Glork, who should we lynch?

Oh thats not suspicious or anything, nope not at all.

[Vendagoat]

Yes save the extension.

[Vendagoat]

I'm a bit confused, because "buddying up", in the traditional sense, is not something done between two scum players on the same team.

Look I'm new to non newbie games, but when there are two teams of two mafia it looks a bit odd. To me at least, can't speak for anyone else.
and your buddy goes from

No reason not to finish off Xyzzy now.

to

Actually,

Unvote, Vote: Crub

... there really isn't a heck of a lot to go on, but I think that CTD could serve to be useful one way or another, regardless of his alignment.

when you two get called on it. Now while crub has been acting "strangely". why the flop after LDL calls you guys on it. I'm just having trouble here is all.

[Vendagoat]

sorry LML yes.

[Vendagoat]

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

I'm not exactly going to say wifom. I'll just say, freaking lame defense.

[Vendagoat]

Look I'm new to non newbie games, but when there are two teams of two mafia it looks a bit odd. To me at least, can't speak for anyone else.
and your buddy goes from

I said it was odd.

Now if you would please answer this.

Now while crub has been acting "strangely". why the flop after LDL calls you guys on it. I'm just having trouble here is all.

the whole rest of your two posts is a dodge.

[Vendagoat]

You answered? With what? this?

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

This?

Meh. I am in no danger of being lynched. Incidentally, I would find those who tack onto the bad attack more suspect than the bad attack itself.

A question for you, LmL: What, from my end, makes you believe that I am CTD's scumbuddy? Why do you feel that his posting could be indicative of scumbuddies rather than, as I suggested earlier, a simple buddy-up tactic?

Vendagoat, I would encourage you to answr the same.

or this?

And by the way, LmL, I certainly don't think I would qualify as "excellent scum." I'd say that I've only recently broken the threshold of "decent scum." Also, as aggressive as I am when pro-town, my internal tactics are far more conservative as scum. Gambitting has never been my style.... but then again, as I don't think you've ever played a forum game with GlorkScum, I wouldn't expect you to know/believe that anyway.

So one is name calling, another is wifom and the last is a logical fallacy.

VOTE:GLORK

[Vendagoat]

I'm still a bit wary of glork, but without a counter-claim it's silly of me not to

UNVOTE

Ok I'm going to go back and do a re-read after I eat some dinner.

[Vendagoat]

Well I'm stumped. Glork is still my front runner on my scumdar, but trying the lynch a claimed, un-countered, doc is just freaking silly.

My second favorites is a tie between xyz and mbl, both are crazy random and neither seems to be building towards much of anything.

I'm going to go with the one with a condescending attitude.

Vote:MBL

[Vendagoat]

Well I'm stumped.

FoS: Vendagoat

I hate people who say their stumped. It gives them an "out" if their wrong.

what and not vote and get fosed for being an indecisive jerk?

my choices. leave my vote on a claimed doc-bad
lurk-bad
just not vote-bad
vote with a reason-just less bad.
the name of the game is mafia bud, everything sucks.

[Vendagoat]

Right.. but by you posting "I'm stumped" and letting everyone KNOW that you're stumped is much different that actually being stumped.

Everyone in the town is stumped in some way.. otherwise there's no game. But the incessant need to REMIND us that you're stumped... bothers me.

I'd be for a possible vote switch to the Goat.

The first sentence is wifom

and I have said I am stumped one. The other time I took a RANDOM VOTE off to wait for more information.

And , yes my vote could still switch as well, seeing as new information is coming to light.

[Vendagoat]

And then there's my old friend Vendagoat. I said early on that if XYZ were evil, Vendagoat felt like a likely partner, and it still feels that way to me. So

FoS:Vendagoat

as well.

So let's see, you suspect me because of a "feeling" and because I am cautious. You even accuse me of not committing and carefully omit the votes I did make and the reasoning behind them.

Not to mention you quoted post 73 as saying I didn't commit to anything and yet in that post I unvoted my random vote, that was on you. You purposely drew attention to me for unvoting you. This strikes me as odd. I unvoted because I didn't want a random vote on someone who I thought was innocent. So why would you even bring it up? Why point out that specific post as me being wishy washy when it benefited you? Especially when we were under a deadline and random votes could mean the screw to someone? Why the complaint? Did you want the vote on you?

Something from your own hand while talking to XYZ

Well, I voted you because of your name, and

unvoted when it looked serious.

But now I'm just confused by you. As in, I really can't follow a lot of your posts.

So whats good for the gander is no good for the goose?

Also there is some partnering. post 185 with an hour to go before deadline you start to get suspicious of me without rhyme or reason. You just look for others willing to swing in. Again I have to ask why? You certainly never gave a reason there, do you just vote at random? If thats the case then you got lucky.

I just find it strange that right at the end, right before the crap hit the fan, you and lee were looking to shift your vote from someone who had a case built on him, to someone you didn't like over a "feeling".

Well ok I'm here now, let's hear this case or feeling.


Now Glork is out of town it seems, so this is for when he gets back.
How are you still alive my good man? You should be dead, yet here you are. You must be the luckiest man alive.

FOS:AE and Glork

One for playing by feeling and the other one because he lived. Can we call Glork Harry Potter now?

Mneme, post something. Your looking more and more scummy to me every moment you don't post.

[Vendagoat]

More importantly, I know your whole hypo is invalid since I'm not mafia. I'm intrigued that you think in a game with Glork (as a claimed doc), you, MBL, Mert (I read his sig, seems people think he's good), and CTD (whom Glork seems to think highly of), I would be the best Night One kill, especially given my lack of participation Day One, the fact that I garnered a handful of votes and am thus feeling more lynchable in this game than I have in any of my other mafiascum games (and I was only killed Night One in one of them...), and the fact that most of these players don't know me from Eve.

But since you suspect Glork for still being alive, I suppose it's only fair to do the same to me.

Wow a half assed claim, kissing of others asses and an elitist attitude.
Wern't you in fact the one complaining about such things?

Oh and

Hmm. First, I'd been suspicious of you all along.

again, this is all based on the whim of the winds.

It's time to get down off of that high horse.

VOTE:AE

[Vendagoat]

You have a cavalier attitude. All post 236 was, is you dropping everyones names. Yes those players earned their titles, they know how they got them. Quit buttering them up.

And again I remind you, you have no case against me either. You stated on day one you had a feeling. A feeling, no logical thought. Just raw gut and luck and hey, you did get lucky on day 1. I'll give you that, but to tempt fate and keep doing it? We are here to find scum and kill them, not be led by blind fate.

Your entire case on me is a feeling.

My entire case on you is attitude and the fact that you just blow through like the wind.

[Vendagoat]

MBL: I have to agree with mneme. How they heck did you find that out?

[Vendagoat]

Oh and yah I forgot to mention this to AE, about yesterday's lynch.

Why did you attempt to get off the XYZ lynch at the last moment and switch to your "feeling" on me? Was that your subtle attempt at telling XYZ, no hard feelings or sorry I had to lynch yah buddy?

[Vendagoat]

who had been FoSing xyzzy almost all day long while keeping his vote elsewhere. Specifically, he was on both Glork and MBL. If anyone was actively trying to derail the xyzzy-wagon, it was him.

Actively trying to derail? Are you high?

I was on the glork wagon until the claim, then I had a toss up and whoops I picked wrong. Others lucked into it and picked correctly. Good for them.

Nice way of misrepresenting the truth.

[Vendagoat]

Vendagoat:

Would you agree that xyzzy's partner had a increased interest in not seeing xyzzy hang due to the set-up quirks, and was therefore more likely to actively seek another lynch?

If your answer is yes, who do you think fits the bill most?

Ok yes I agree with you his partner would more than likely not be on the vote, but please don't forget the couple of people that wanted to switch at the last minute. Who knows, maybe they wanted to attempt another lynch at the zero hour or something. Those three are Glork, Ae and lml.
Now as for not on the XYZ lynch we have; You, me, crub, stewie, lml and mneme.

I'll make a list.

Me: I'm still new and I always like to keep an open mind about everything, especially on day one. Because its a lot of random voting and either the town miss lynches or a scum screws up royally. I was waiting for either of those to happen. Xyz did screw up but in my eyes MBL also screwed up just as bad. I don't think I fit the bill enough because I had noticed the same thing crub, glork and lml noticed about mbl. I choose and I stuck to my guns. I choose poorly, my bad. If you're going to crucify me for not being on the correct person then you better do it to the rest as well. Oh and finally, as I repeated ad nasuem, the cases on me right now are feelings. Thanks for suspecting me for not doing anything scummy, just because some of you want to.

You: I'll keep this one brief. If we are just going on who didn't say anything about XYZ, it was you. You never so much as mentioned him EXCEPT for your first random vote. You let him coast right by.

Crub: ok this right here is one of my front runners. First he's ont he XYZ wagon, then to glork and when the heat really gets on XYZ goes right for MBL, but pledges he will kill XYZ if a no-lynch is coming. While throwing your partner under the bus is bad, if you can get a chance to garner respect with others to survive the next day, why not take it?

Stewie: doesn't strike me as XYZ's partner. Still a bit leary about the whole reminder thing. It just strikes me as strange.

LML: Ok this one is interesting and is my second best pick. check this out

The Xyzzy wagon at least had *something* to it. I didn't agree... but it had *something*.

if the XYZ wagon had "something" why didn't he vote it? Then there is the whole glork thing. I think we can all agree lynching a claimed un countered doc is just plain stupid, but he liked a glork lynch better? Did he not want to waste the night kill? Then the switch to me, just because.
This whole thing here just rubs me the wrong way.

and finally
mneme: who did the exact same thing as lml.

Oh, given Glork's claim, I'd prefer to lynch crub over xyzzy, but will switch to xyz if it's needed for a deadline lynch, since xyz lynch is better than either doc or no-lynch.

I mean take your pick.

Ok dude, that's my full thoughts, if you want me to explain anything more, or need clarification, please let me know.

[Vendagoat]

All right. First, so that Vendagoat stops saying the entire case on him is based on "feeling", allow me to articulate why his Day One play made him look like partners with XYZ.

Here's a chronology:
1) Crub random-votes XYZ (#11)
2) I random-vote XYZ (#18)
3) Mert "bandwagon" votes XYZ (#19)
4) Vendagoat says "wow, lots ot hate for XYZ" (#23)
5) XYZ (joke?) FoS's Vendagoat (#24)

That was the initial thing. It felt like Vendagoat was trying to derail the bandwagon in a subtle way (his post is a joke, check it out), and XYZ responded to that by FoSing him because goats are bad, which looks like a partner saying "don't be stupid".

So jokes are scumtells now?

Vendagoat then makes lots of "oh, he might be scum, might not be" non-commital comments (often accompanied by FoS's) regarding XYZ (e.g. #42, #62, #73, #165).

And then it comes down to deadline, and it looks like it's between XYZ and MBL. Venadagoat votes MBL. Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I FoS someone three times, and someone else zero times, I'd probably vote for the person I'd found suspicious, not the one with "the condescending attitude". But then again, I'm not Vendagoat and I'm not XYZ's scum-buddy.

You've been riding me from day one and since you got lucky on day one you are attempting to railroad me for day two. Fine.

---------------
So that points to partnership yesterday. In addition, Vendagoat has acted scumy indepedently of XYZ. He's been wishy-washy, extremely OMGUS-y, hasn't made actual attempts at scumhunting, prefering to follow the crowd or else OMGUS, doesn't respond to (what I happen to think are) valid responses to his posts (see, e.g. my post 221), distorts posts and arguments, accused me of claiming something when I was doing no such thing (and of course didn't respond when I pointed that out), and is now trying to play the newbie card despite having more than 3 months' experience at mafiascum.

vote: Vendagoat

Let it be known that I have played

2

whole games. One being lynched on day one and the other resulted in a town win.


And post 31 is were you accuse me of being XYZ's scum buddy. Wow, either you have some form of esp, or you were just setting up a kill for today.

Look I've started a case on you because you used the term "feeling" and now after seeing how you have justified it, you have given away you had some form of knowledge. You knew XyZ was scum and now you know I am scum.

How can you make such allegations unless you have knowledge of the scum pairings. Which means, your scum. Now the question lies, are you ice or fire?

[Vendagoat]

Oh and just for fun, Not doc.

[Vendagoat]

[quote=AE]I'm not Vendagoat and I'm not XYZ's scum-buddy[/quote]

Spoken from her mouth repeated by me.

[Vendagoat]

Look I've started a case on you because you used the term "feeling" and now after seeing how you have justified it, you have given away you had some form of knowledge. You knew XyZ was scum and now you know I am scum.

How can you make such allegations unless you have knowledge of the scum pairings. Which means, your scum. Now the question lies, are you ice or fire?

You realise that you have to be scum for this make sense right?

Not at all. She hit XYZ and claimed it was luck. Now she is targeting me and says I am scum.

How can someone have their cake and eat it too? She must know something, which is why I am asking her if she is fire or ice? Getting lucky and then claiming her knowledge is a dead give away she knows something.

[Vendagoat]

Jokes are scumtells.

I shall have to remember this. Mafia scum is serious business.

[Vendagoat]

(this is outside of game talk)
Well that kind of sucks for me as humor is a large part of my life. I hate being serious all of the time and it grates on my nerves.

Seeing as how it is a scum tell I may want to rethink my participation in these games.

[Vendagoat]

technically guys, everything is a scumtell.

I've never even heard of a town tell.

Personally I think there is a giant problem with people's mentalities on this game. Simple logic. if you have a group of people, you know someone is scum and you only know your identity, then everyone besides you is possibly scum. Noone actually plays that. Most people pick one person for personal, emotional or simple randomness and go with that. It just doesn't strike me as the best way.

[Vendagoat]

Anyways I have to go to the gym and work my ass off, so let's get this out of the way.

unvote, VOTE:Vendagoat

Last night I targeted AE and didn't get a kill. So there is your next kill tomorrow. Check with your doc and see what he says, but I'm damn convinced even without that. On a personal note I'd love to know how she figured out the pairing in 31 posts. That just seems a bit odd to me.

Regardless I think i got a bit of the screw on this game. I like XYZ, he's funny, just not a great scum partner. I thought about tossing him under the bus a few times, but in this kind of game, you desperately need a partner.

To all of you good game, it was fun, to a point. My guess for AE's partner is either MBL or mneme. Don't know for sure though so take that for what you will.

[Vendagoat]

LOL good job town.

Someone mentioned me maybe giving up scum partners or attempting to ruin a perfectly good game. Nope never crossed my mind. One of the reasons I hammered myself is specifically so that you guys wouldn't know for sure what i did. I've read that post in the general discussion about scum people giving up their partners and ruining games. No thanks no ban for me.

[Vendagoat]

But your ultimate objective is

always

your win condition. By self-hammering when you were the last Fire around, you took deliberate action that made it impossible to fulfil your win condition. If you had self-hammered and outed AE but your partner was still alive I would have hailed it as an incredible scum move. But since you did it when in the process of making yourself lose on purpose there was nothing your faction could gain from it, which makes it basically asshattery.

Now it's not going to get you banned, but you should

always

try to achieve your win condition as that's fundamentally what drives this game in the first place. The only explanation I can find for what you did was that you were mad at AE for going after you throughout the day and so you decided to take her down with you, despite throwing the game for both you and your partner in the process.

Dude, sorry i took your partner out. Relax, it's a game.

[Vendagoat]

(shakes head and smiles)

Enjoy folks.