Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[SPAG]

Ah we have started,

vote CKD

for, well, being in another game that i'm in.

[SPAG]

LOL! I'm afraid not. Though i'm interested as to why you bothered to type my name into google?

[SPAG]

FOS on ojpower

very strange behaviour.

[SPAG]

I don't think the amount needed for a majority bears much significance, it could work for or against us.

As for OJ, has he even said anything since his strange vote? Would be nice to hear from him.

I think DFN was a tad overdramatic in his OJ theory. Opportunistic? we are yet to find out.

[SPAG]

As we are possibly out of the random stage (ALREADY!) i'm going to retract my random vote.

unvote

Though i feel this OJ & DFN situation could die down soon as DFN is reflecting questions and OJ is not around.

[SPAG]

oj is a bit of a loser really, he doesn't even read any games he just votes. In another game he voted for me when i was at -1 and i had character claimed.

Anyway, he could be town, he could be scum, theres just no way to tell.

Ninja's big accusation and theory was only met with a FOS rather than a vote, which i find rather strange. He also doesn't seem to cope with pressure very well, but that is not neccessarily a scum-tell.

[SPAG]

Oman, can i just ask how Nelly comes high on your list? I've just read back and as far as i can see he/she has only posted twice, hard to tell from that.

[SPAG]

Ah just noticed that line. Indeed it is very strange to make a comment like that. Though maybe a bit too reckless for a mafia?

[SPAG]

Lol didn't notice that, and it does change CKD's tone.

FAO DFN, why change the quote?

[SPAG]

Ok guys sorry i haven't been around that much, will be available this time tomorroq when i'll be able to put a bit more input in.

[SPAG]

I am still playing guys, just had some RL problems.

[SPAG]

Hey, im going to try to catch up with this game. I've missed quite a lot, i had ased to be replaced.

Will read through at some point soon.

[SPAG]

Ok as we are so close to deadline, could somebody give me the case on para, and i will see if its worth my vote, i will catch up on the thread during the night phase.

[SPAG]

Ok, although i haven't been able to read through the whole thread, a selection of you seem pretty sure on Para, and from what i have read on him (I looked through his posts) he is looking like the prime suspect at the moment.

Well, I'm going to go with it.

vote : para

I just hope we are right.

[SPAG]

CKD only PMed me for the good of the game, guys don't be silly.

[SPAG]

Just realised the deadline has been extended.

On that note, i'm going to

unvote

This gives me a chance to have a proper read through of the thread

[SPAG]

Mainly the things that Vollkan outline, they were the main scummy points.

Like i said i haven't had a read through yet.

[SPAG]

I think he is scummy, yes, but i am yet to read the thread properly. Since we have a fortnight (almost) until the deadline, I have plenty of time to have a read through and cast a thoughtful vote rather than a quick one on the first person i suspect.

[SPAG]

Bold is me.

You said you looked at his posts. What did you see.

The particular post I think he is referring to was a skeleton of the case to list in brief the major points that had been raised.

SPAG:and from what i have read on him (I looked through his posts) he is looking like the prime suspect at the moment.

He says he read something that affirmed this opinion. I asked to hear what.

As such, you could hardly expect SPAG to come up with a massive reasoning for his post other than that he saw my points. There was a deadline looming and SPAG voted because Para did seem to have the most backing. Of course, this is a terrible reason in normal circumstances, but the circumstances weren't normal.

If he had said right off "<Someone's> case is good enough for me under deadline" I would've let it slide.

Gorckat. I can't help but notice how lacking in content you have been.
Let's have a look since your return:
#380: Welcome home
#436: Votes tornado for lurking. Say you will comment in a few days
#438: You express a desire to do more reading. Say you like Hermit because of "Lynch all Vanillas" (Note: has ANYBODY else ever heard of "LaV"? Does LaV actually even sound reasonable)

LAV is the idea that if a person has behaved scummily enough to get that many votes, why should a vanilla claim save you? No power role is lost, so its the best worst case scenario (a vanilla gets lynched).

#442: FoS on CKD for "pushing Para" and "leading town"
#447: Vague attacks on CKD for leading. Given the amount of actual hard accusation in this game, I find it very odd that you focus on such trivial things. You don't think para is the lynch. Still want to keep vote on Tornado.

The vote on Tornado was for a specific purpose- to call out his lack of promised posting.

"I'm not convinced that xombie is the lynch for today. Certainly not the way you are. "

That's exactly what I said. I was probably in the 50% range there, where others, and ckd, were (seemingly) at around 100%.

Given the town seemed to be swinging towards xombie anyway, ckd's insistence and over-reaction seemed odd.

#451: You will unFoS CKD if para is scum (an odd thing to say).

Response to a direct question by ckd

#466: Votes CKD with nothing else.

As I said, I felt the PM thing was a slip. I can see where someone might read 'pm your friends' as 'masons and scum talk and get this thing moving'

#479: Asks why I think you will lurk through deadline. Justifies vote by reference to *drumroll* the PM thing.
#482: Again hesistant to lynch para.
#484: Thinks more attention should be paid to the PM (non-)issue
#487: Asks CKD's motivation...Were you expecting CKD to say "Oh, I was just trying to get my scum buddy to play again"?
#489: "Why not pulse?" -> Continuing to drag this thing out

I was trying to isolate why he PM'd SPAG and not pulse. The contents of his PM to SPAG could just as appropriately be directed at pulse. Because ABR is editing his comments into a lot of other posts, I had missed ckd's reasoning- that pulse was due to be replcaed, but SPAG was not.

#494: Unvotes CKD. Declares will hammer in 24 hours.
#501: Seeks SPAG's reasons for voting. Interestingly, Gorckat only quotes SPAG saying Para looks like the prime suspect whilst omitting SPAG referring to the suspicion expressed by other people. This makes it look like SPAG's reasoning was vague when, in fact, SPAG was acting in accordance with what had been suggested by numerous other people in the context of the deadline.

Like I said- I want to hear what he independently sees as the reason.

#506: Has decided to suspend promised hammer (surprise, surprise) because he is trying to question SPAG. (What did SPAG do?) Sets up another 24 hr hammer.

I considered hammering in spite of the extension, but that would not have been fair to Elias, who had said he was going to re-read. I considered posting that I was going to wait, but didn't want to let SPAG that he could not answer my question right away.

Then the extension happened and we got our replacement. I really didn't want to cut them out of any discussion.

#508: Queries my VC stuff-up
#522: Again questions SPAG
#524: Again questions SPAG

Overall:
1) No real comment on anything that happened before return from vacation.
2) Incredily weak accusations against CKD
3) This bizarre inquisition on SPAG
4) Reluctant to lynch Para
5) "Lynch all Vanillas". I've never heard of this before, but any policy to lynch claimed vanillas is just ridiculous.

FoS: Gorckat

Needless to say, if Para comes up scum there is no question of where my suspicion is going to head.

Overall:

1) Fair- I read up and mostly continued in at the point things were.
2) So questioning little things that might lead to big things isn't a good thing?
3) Its not bizarre- if it were anyone besides the person I had thought PMd a scumbud, I wouldn't have thought much of it. But he says he had some thought of his own so I wanted to see it.
4) Reluctant in the sense that I wanted to be as certain as I could we were on the right path. Once ckd had alleviated my concrens over his PM (and no one else seemed interested) I was game for it.
5) Its not lynching him because he claimed vanilla, its because he got himself a numbner of votes and at worse is

just

a vanilla. I could have phrased the original post better to state that was not the only thing leaning me that way.

On the PM thing, I guess if ckd was scum, he'd have to be truly foolish to admit he made the PM publicly. In his place, I'd have PM'd the mod and said "Hey- I misunderstood what you meant and PM'd SPAG".

Stylistically, I do seem to be a 'question and get an answer before commiting' poster. I don't want to lead too much if I have an idea of how certain answers will shade my views, thus dragging certain things out for several posts (Why not pulse?) to try and elicit contradictions.

On preview, SPAG and ckd have posted...

@ckd: Part of my querry to SPAG is because I'm stuck with a possible link between you in my head. At the simplest level, nothing was implied when you prodded SPAG on your own and you did come clean right away, so my suspicions might not go anywhere.

Well vollkan highlighted the key points of para's scumminess and i went back through and read through para's posts to pick these up so that they were the actual posts and not just summarised, as vollkan had done.

[SPAG]

I finally finished reading the thread, and now my head is killing me. I found it laughable that vollkan criticized players for agreeing with his arguments instead of coming up with their own, when he was covering anything half-way evident so thoroughly time and time again that it seemed there was nothing for anyone else to do but agree (or disagree) or grasp at straws.

So… I think I will just say that I can see why Para is on the chopping block. He has done several things that have made him look scummy. Wanting to lynch inactives when there is a high likelihood they are Town, and being so hard core anti replacements doesn’t seem the best way to keep the town in the majority. Plus it really hurt my feelings. The one that stood out the most to me was in post 362 when he quoted CKD asking “who is definately town?” (sic) and then used this to build a case against him, without referencing it. When pressed as to why he pulled one sentence out of context he says:

I didn't know the context, I only read it in passing like I said.

Now, way back at the beginning you may remember that we were told by the mod:

Paradoxombie replaces ojpower as of now. This guy's pretty old school, too. He was in one of my first games on this site, so I ask you all to treat him with respect and distinction.

I can see a newbie player doing this maybe, but I find it hard to believe that an “old school” player didn’t at LEAST read the post directly before the one he pulled the quote from, to find out whether CKD was asking something of the person who just posted, or a general question of all of us. To boot, a few posts back he tried to explain away his miscount saying it happens all the time. Maybe. But to someone who deserves such respect and distinction… I have my doubts.

That being said, I’m not willing to vote and put him to L-1 right now because I don’t think SPAG and gorckat should be let off the hook so easily. Though it is possible that SPAG really does just want to re-read and cast a more thoughtful vote, and gorckat did just want to give me a chance to post, it is also possible that one of them is Para’s scum partner. I think I’d like to wait and see if either of them really will vote for him. If the deadline gets closer and they’re still stalling, I’ll vote for him so that we don’t lose the day lynch.

I was just unvoting so i could go back and read through. Seems like your trying to push me to vote here.

FOS:Setael

[SPAG]

Ok i've had a read through. Throughout the whole of this phase, OJ now Paradox have stuck out like a sore thumb. Some of paradox's comments and cases have been cringeworthy.

I've been thinking, he's an experienced player, surely if he was scum he would be a better player than this?

Though i can't see anything other than a Parodoxombie lynch. And a Paradox lynch will give us some information. If he turns out mafia, i agree it will make me look suspisious for unvoting him but also it will show something about Gorckat, who seemed to defend him a fair bit, but voted him to put him at -1, as if giving up the fight to protect a scum partner and make himself look town. However, if he turned out town it will particularly show out Setael, who seemed to push me and gorckat into voting for him on suspision that we were protecting a fellow scumbuddy, and those two votes would secure his lynch. Also vollkan and CKD have been dominant in wanting to lynch him.

I think, ahead of the information this could give us, it is probably a good lynch. But the fact that an experienced player could play scum so badly is putting me off the idea. I would like to hear from PX himself before i place a vote.

[SPAG]

Its his lack of defence recently that baffles me. Anyone in their right mind would defend themselves for their cause, town or mafia.

[SPAG]

Oh yeah, i forgot to say good job on Oman I trust you will be protected.

Well, i think i'm going to go for it and place my vote on him.

Vote: Paradoxombie

I just hope we are right.