Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Skruffs]

I'm wondering if Thok is scum. I can see scum replacing out of the game easily in a game where they never get the chance to converse with buddies. And THok's role has been replaced five or six times now.
Just saying.

[Thok]

I'm wondering if Thok is scum. I can see scum replacing out of the game easily in a game where they never get the chance to converse with buddies. And THok's role has been replaced five or six times now.
Just saying.

The only time I've been a role with this many replacements is Lost Mafia. That role was town. I'm pretty sure that for the most part, the players got attacked by this thing known as "real life". (I know that STD has been busy with work and has been replaced in most games on the site for that reason, I don't know about the other four players. Also, I need to sit down and develop an acronym for them.)

Mild

FOS

for knowing that scum can't talk with each other (something I needed to check the first post to verify); while it's public information, I feel that you would be more likely to know that information from your role PM and less likely to have read the PM in the first post.

(I know, this contradicts my earlier comments about Skruffs.)

[Skruffs]

LOL - I know this because I've been in the game for a few months, now. I didn't know it at first, either, Thok. I've pointed out before that mafia should be allowed to at least slightly communicate with each other, at least with a post or two, when someone replaces in - otherwise it's not very fair to the new comers, to not have any idea what the plan is.

That's not me being pro-mafia, per say, as pro "Good game". - but you can take it any way you want.

But I do like your reaction, I'll file it away under "Unnecessarily defensive about a simple comment"

[Simenon]

Vote Count
Guardian- Romanus, TonyMoonshine, Skruffs
Mustafa- VitaminR, Thok
IH- Guardian, Skruffs

Six to do it.

[Romanus]

I've got my eye on Thok as well, he came in very aggressively. As it would be rather OMGUS for me to make too much of it, I'm not going to. Actually, I am quite glad we have another active player in the game now as this game was in danger of stalling.

I really don't care how scummy this looks, and I know it will, but whatever:

Is it possible that we can get a compromise lynch on Mustafa?

I really refuse to vote for IH, for I feel his is town. Obviously we are at an impasse with Guardian and it doesn't look like we will have the votes for his lynch and I really don't want to see a deadline lynch as we get less info from that. We also wound up mislynching because of a deadline lynch.

I am not sold on a Mustafa lynch, but will be going back to see how I really feel about it. I do admit that I have been rather short-sighted and single minded about Guardian, but I do think he is scum, but I also know there are more out there.

[IH]

X_X Sorry guys I got real busy this week and had to leave on Saturday, I'll try and resume my reread tonight

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry i havent been posting. reread tomorrow.

[TonyMoonshine]

I still feel good about my vote on Guardian. I'm suspicious of Mustafa only because Aimee was. But, I dislike voting someone who's not here to defend themselves and it leaves us with less for tomorrow.

I'm sorry this is short. Like everyone else I have been busy lately. I'm glad the game didn't stall and I will continue to do my part.

[VitaminR]

I still feel good about my vote on Guardian. I'm suspicious of Mustafa only because Aimee was. But, I dislike voting someone who's not here to defend themselves and it leaves us with less for tomorrow.

Normally, I wouldn't feel good about this either, but mustafa never posted much and I'm not all that enthusiastic about another replacement anyway.

[Thok]

I still feel good about my vote on Guardian.

Why?

[TonyMoonshine]

I still feel good about my vote on Guardian.

Why?

When he was facing a deadline and lynch he seemed more worried about saving his own neck and not finding scum. Also, I think he is overly protown. He's tried to divide the town, that's scummy.

Do you disagree ?

[TonyMoonshine]

and I'm not all that enthusiastic about another replacement anyway.

I think most players are behind. How can we expect another replacement to catch up? So, I agree and don't have a better idea. Thok is an exception. I don't now how he did it.

[Thok]

and I'm not all that enthusiastic about another replacement anyway.

I think most players are behind. How can we expect another replacement to catch up? So, I agree and don't have a better idea. Thok is an exception. I don't now how he did it.

I'm not actually caught up. I've probably only read about 45-55% of the thread. I've jut noticed things that I've found interesting and I've fought with people over them. A lot of what I'm doing is trying to get a feel for how people are reacting to events in the thread.

Did you claim Guardian is "overly protown" in 910? Freudian slip or something that needs further explantion? Also, how do you feel Guardian is trying to "divide" the town?

[Simenon]

ShadowLurker takes over today.

[TonyMoonshine]

Did you claim Guardian is "overly protown" in 910?

Not sure. I'll have to check. I'm at work with limited time.

Freudian slip or something that needs further explantion?

I don't know what this means.

Also, how do you feel Guardian is trying to "divide" the town?

I will provide evidence later tonight. He won't like it.

[IH]

Checking in while my reread goes on to welcome Jath.

[ShadowLurker]

Hi guyz.

So I'll give you a votecount each new page and I have all your alignments and stuffs and yeah.

Continue.

[Thok]

I want to see TonyMoonshine's follow up to his comments before I say more about him.

[Guardian]

I want to see TonyMoonshine's follow up to his comments before I say more about him.

qft...

I will probably do my re-read tomorrow evening. Expect a really long post from me. Minor v/la Wednesday-Sunday, fyi.

Thok, while we wait -- care to address the few things I brought up in 890?

[Guardian]

I am going to start this re-read by mentioning my initial thoughts, as notes to you guys and, almost as importantly, to myself.

I am focusing on everyone, but specifically Romanus, mustafa, and Tony for their actions on the Occult-John wagons.

I am focusing on Skruffs and IH to see if I can make clearer my cases on them/to see if my cases on them still seem like they have merit.

I also want to see if I can get any idea of Thok's role based on his predecessors' actions.

I will make the re-read as open minded as possible, trying to disregard previously held views, while still looking for these specific things.

Pre-reread, IH, Romanus, Skruffs, and mustafa top my scumlist. The others I have made good explanations for, mustafa because everyone else is suspicious of him and you aren't

all

scum, Aimee was almost sure he was scum, and a lot of things with mustafa have been way too convenient.

Pre-reread, Elias is the only one I am getting a strong town vibe on.

I will be surprised if that changes.


I have decided to break this up into 5 posts covering 8-pages, to give myself breaks and to give you breaks in reading it.

Part One, Pages 1-8: Early Game and Post-Crash

At the beginning, my Summary of Scum (SoS) looks like:

IH
Romanus
Skruffs
Mustafa
Thok
VitaminR
Tony
Elias



---

Looks like John was trying to look townie by posting that. Amazing how he gave himself up at post 5.

---

In 29 either VitaminR is either both extremely perceptive and lucky, or starts busing very early. I

still

don't see how Thok isn't setting a double standard by saying Romanus's prolonged attack on me is busing but this attack by VitaminR couldn't have been. VitaminR finds scum

in his first serious post

. That's amazingly good pro-town play, or busing.

---

TonyMoonshine says it was a good read but notably doesn't vote in 30.

---

unvote, vote:John

Good call on that one Vit. I thought his statement looked Iffy, but I

wasn't exactly sure what it meant, but you're probably right.

Tony, why didn't you put your vote on him if you thought it sounded

good?

This still seems like the scummiest post in the game to me. IH gets all buddy buddy with VitR,

and

initiates a very easy bus.

---

In 32 Tony is notably very worried about a quick John wagon and warns against lynching John quickly.

---

Eh. I really don't like it, but IH's 34 could theoretically be seen as not scummy. I hate this thinking though, and I do find it scummy. He is trying to make us be too free in lynching, and possibly was thinking about setting up a good result of his plan with a John lynch.

---

37 – VitR was busing, or is an absolute genius reader.

---

In 38 Tony

still

doesn't vote John, and FoS's only.

---

39, to me, really looks like John could be responding badly to a bus.

---

Thok (I am just going to say Thok for his predecessors, to avoid confusion -- I will mention when Thok replaces in) wants to vote John in 45 but doesn't, and then cites insecurity about looking suspicious...

---

Yes, it's very suspicious. We don't even have a real page and everyone is already jumping on john.

Vote blahgo
Fos IH and VitaminR

Seems like an attempt to start a bandwagon to me.
Vit for starts it
IH agrees to keep it moving
blahgo doesn't even give an explanation, thats why he gets the vote.

We need more to go on before we lynch in a nightless

I'd imagine you should go read my former post. Bandwagons are not intrinsically bad, but uou need to watch who jumps on for no reason at all. Like Blahgo.

FoS:Blahgo

Speedlynches are just as scummy, because they indicate rushing the town through a lynch, and that you want the game to be over as soon as possible.

Speedlynches are almost always bad.

After preaching about how we have 5 lives to give and we can be free with our votes, IH lectures blagho (me) about how quicklynches are scummy. I find that hypocritical and scummy.

---

I definetly don't like blahgo's vote on John, it says "newb scum" to me. As I said before,

I don't really like lynching John at all

, at least not due to that comment. I'll

unvote, vote:blahgo

simply because it's a better vote than my random one.

Bolding mine. That is a very interesting post/attempt to start a counter wagon by mustafa.

---

In 59 mustafa jokes about being scum. Anyone familiar with the story behind EmpTyger's user title will know why I find this of note -- basically, scum are much more likely to joke about being scum than town are. That post and the previous one I quoted look bad for mustafa.

---

In 63, VitR attacks mustafa for defending John. This makes a lot of sense, in retrospect. I wonder if VitR knew too much though, his accuracy that defending John is scummy is stunning.

---

Mustafa's 67 just stinks -- he defends his defense of John, and says that his admitting to being scum can't be a scum tell.

---

IH's 69 is OMGUSy and diverts attention to a townie as opposed to a mafia member.

---

Gah. The crash really, really sucks. I vaguely remember NAR being scummy, but have nothing to re-read. After three pages, I find mustafa scum, Tony scum, and IH scum. pre-Thok looks bad too. VitR could also be scum. I think I was overdoing the case on Skruffs -- but I can't re-read NAR and I can't remember it that well, so I can't be sure.

Elias still looks town, and Romanus hasn't made that much of an impression yet.

Summary of Scum (SoS):
IH
Tony
mustafa
Thok
Vitr
Skruffs
Romanus
Elias

People in game felt pretty sure NAR would be lynched and was scummy -- I think it has helped that role a lot. I think Elias objectively summarizes it in 86. I don't know to what extent what happened during the crash should be ignored.

Occult in 95 too. Yes, now I remember why Skruffs was much higher on my SoS.

Aimees reads in 99 may or may not be off, but were a pretty objective description of what happened.

*Continues reading post crash*

---

mustafa notably defends NAR in 109 and says we should disregard NAR's actions.

---

Vitr says in 118 that he finds John and Occult scummy... and proceeds to vote for the townie. Eh, I think I am finding him pro-town up to this point, though.

---

I hated Skruff's 125. I don't think poemscum is a word, but it applies here. He is much too concerned with surviving.

---

I also hate how Skruffs in 132 not at all subtly insists NAR replaced out for the "good of the town".

---

In 139, Romanus starts his crusade on my role, that lasts all game. It rivals my single-mindedness on IH, except I don’t see good reasoning behind it.

---

In 150, Skruffs wants a challenge. Strikes me as a WIFOMy scum move.

---

I also refuse to read Skruffs’s pbpa again at this time. It is too stream of conscious for me to interpret again, right now.

I realize that since I don’t want the same thing to happen to this post, I am going to cut it into 8-page analysis segments, roughly. The distinction makes sense, pretty much -- this first part is the early game/post crash section.

---

Tony’s 155 is highly unremarkable, and feels like active lurking.

---

Also, can we lynch Occult?

But not John? I think VitaminR might have overreacted to John’s post 5. His scumhunting there was just…

too

good. Now, it seems like he might be trying to buy a day by lynching Occult first -- which eventually happens.

---

However, in 190 VitaminR very reasonably defends Elias and NAR. I am puzzled by VitaminR on this re-read. He seems like he either has too much information on the now-dead players one hand, and then is very reasonable with his reads in the next -- but just how reasonable

is

a defense of Skruffs at this point? He was replacing into possibly the scummiest role in the game.

---

At the end of this segment, my SoS is something like:

IH -- IH finds John suspicious, and even so goes on to derail the day one John wagon. IH in addition to being scummy per his defending of John, his reasoning about his “lives” logic and subsequent hypocrisy, his OMGUSing, and buddying up. Again, I think he made the most suspicious post of the game, and I think he needs lynching. I find both Tony and mustafa almost as scummy, though -- which is quite a change in what I thought pre re-read.
Tony -- he was even more obvious in trying to derail a John wagon.
Mustafa -- Similarly to the above, he blatantly defends John and tries to shift focus elsewhere.

I completely missed these blatant attempts to shift the wagon away from John previously (and the conclusion that these three are likely scum), but that’s why we do re-reads I guess. Thok helped me spot this in Tony, IH, and Mustafa. I wasn’t even really looking for it before. Thok, if these guys start turning up scum, good job, and I take back my suspicion of you.

VitaminR -- His read on John was just too good. And he ends up hammering Occult day one, despite this.
Skruffs -- Is just too eager and confident after replacing in. Also, though we cannot read them now, NAR’s actions were scummy as hell. Not considering lynching Skruffs today

at the moment (atm)

in the re-read, though.
Romanus -- I find him pro-town so far, but I now notice that that is largely because he has not taken a definitive stance on anything so far. I really wonder why he has pursued my role all game... He will probably look scummier as time goes on.
Thok -- not to lot to go on so far, pre-Thok looked scummy, but Thok helped me spot tells that I just completely missed before. Not considering lynching Thok today

atm

.
Elias -- He, like Aimee, has seemed obviously pro-town to me all game. Not considering lynching him for the next few days.


Just by going from this re-read, I still would be most happy lynching IH today, but Tony and Mustafa are also good possibilities. VitaminR is probably not the play today, I want to see more. I am not really considering anyone else at this point.

[TonyMoonshine]

Wow. Guardian's post is a page long. I haven't read it, but I did a quick scan and noticed I moved up on his scum list. Guardian, did I move up because Thok is waiting to pounce on my report about you?

Thok, I've posted serveral times now why I'm suspicous of Guardian. You can do a reread and see for yourself.

Vote: Guardian

[Guardian]

Hm. Tony, respond to 914, would you? Also, you are already voting me, I believe. Also, nice OMGUS. And finally, also, read my post and see why you moved up the list instead of just OMGUSing for me moving up the list.

[Thok]

Wow. Guardian's post is a page long. I haven't read it, but I did a quick scan and noticed I moved up on his scum list. Guardian, did I move up because Thok is waiting to pounce on my report about you?

Thok, I've posted serveral times now why I'm suspicous of Guardian. You can do a reread and see for yourself.

You've completely missed the point of why I wanted to see your response to 914. Go reread 910 and 914 again. If you don't respnd to my comments, I will vote you.

[TonyMoonshine]

Hm. Tony, respond to 914, would you? Also, you are already voting me, I believe. Also, nice OMGUS. And finally, also, read my post and see why you moved up the list instead of just OMGUSing for me moving up the list.

The OMGUS is for you page long post. The real reason I moved up is because you know Thok is waiting to pounce on me. And, when he does, you will join.

[TonyMoonshine]

Wow. Guardian's post is a page long. I haven't read it, but I did a quick scan and noticed I moved up on his scum list. Guardian, did I move up because Thok is waiting to pounce on my report about you?

Thok, I've posted serveral times now why I'm suspicous of Guardian. You can do a reread and see for yourself.

You've completely missed the point of why I wanted to see your response to 914. Go reread 910 and 914 again. If you don't respnd to my comments, I will vote you.

Repost your question. Or, go back and reread my posts. I have already said several times why I am suspicious of Guardian. IF you need me to, I will cut and paste my response.