Mini 473: Urban Dead Mafia! Barhah! (Over)

[Hjallti]

random

vote: Zodiac

Anyway the Zodiac is there at night, and he was not the cop: so he might be one of those nightkillers, which makes me happy with my random vote.

[Hjallti]

Anyway the Zodiac is there at night, and he was not the cop: so he might be one of those nightkillers, which makes me happy with my random vote.

How did you know where he was? Unless your a tracker or something? Sorry I just didn't get it.

At night if there are no clouds and the moon is not at full strength the stars shine brightly and form signs that people have trying to understand.

I just assumed it was cloudless night and the Zodiac was up there....

[Hjallti]

And I do hate to explain jokes, because it shows first that they are not really funny and after explaining the fun is totally out of them.

[Hjallti]

It's not the net, I have the same problem in class rooms... and I am that bloke in front of the pupils...

[Hjallti]

unvote

So Zodiac is back at zero:

And this one is for vote hopping:

vote: darko

[Hjallti]

mod, Can you give a new official votecount.

[Hjallti]

okay I'll post this 13 times in a row then?

I think we can ask if we get confused, no?

[Hjallti]

I get it, the vote count on top was not by Oman but made by the Mod. Sorry I entirely missed that.

Since I might not be playing a lot after this post for 10 days and I hope we are not in the random afterwards I

unvote

.

[Hjallti]

I thought there would be a 'last edited' mark on it if it was edited afterwards, that is the main reason I dropped the idea when I considered it.

[Hjallti]

Unvote

Vote: Hjallti

what's this^ ?

I don't understand that either.

Neither do I and I have no time during this quick login to check.

[Hjallti]

My comeback is this summary

Albert B. Rampage

*normal reaction to camisades test, trying to get content


Sir Tornado

*reading and not posting is lurking. There were 3 discussions already and you didn't join them really the excuse that you can't START discussions is rather strange

Gatorguy91

*didn't over defend in the first discussion (small towntell)

poppinpuffin

*normal reaction in camisades test, trying to get content

Claus

*Twice he comes in a stirs things up a bit. I guess this is to give the game contents and gives me a townie vibe

camisade

*strange not explained page3 vote (afterwards explained), the reaction test bit was plausible and brought some stuff but as you pointed out nothing scummy


darko

*normal reaction to camisades' test, trying to het content

Zodiac

*waiting on some content from him

Oman
*strange "3 random votes, we should explain" while we are at 6 to lynch. I don't see why gator had to defend but Oman keeps pushing
*at post 99 he buddies up with Claus wagons and doesn't explain himself. These 3 things look scummy to me


So, I want to

vote: Oman

to make clear his on top of my scumlist.

[Hjallti]

Oman
*strange "3 random votes, we should explain"

I don't understand this, what are you refering too.

Several post like these:

Bloody hell. GATOR HAS 3 VOTES! CAN WE TALK ABOUT THIS!!!!!

I put the third vote on Gator! "Oh no that's scummy!" Quick, everyone post something relating to my status so that I can go through it with a fine tooth comb and lynch some scum!

If it deadlines, we really don't want a No Lynch (if less then 2/3 are voting).

Do you think someone with 3 votes should defend himself hard?

[Hjallti]

It is illogical to think that someone at 3 votes should defend themself hard in random phase and not doing it yourself when there is content, if you don't have some hidden agenda. I think everyone and especially Oman should think about that.

[Hjallti]

Hjallit, its illogical to think that a game can just grind to a standstill and everyone looks the other way. Yes, I am damn impatient, becuase noone was posting or doing anything.

You are just copying Claus's defence in other words. Hardly a way to convince me.

@Claus: I would rather see people defending their selfs sometimes. I think that is more a 'buddy-tell' then saying a analysis of someone is genuine.

[Hjallti]

I felt* your posts were bizar.
Look: we were in the random fase. Gatorguy91 was selfvoting because someone give a funny reason for voting him.
He was at 3 votes so basically at -3 to lynch, with the 3 sitting votes being jokes.
There was no way that this would lead to a lynch, and there was no pressure whatsoever on him.
Then you start shouting (=capitalizing) about it that there is something happening. (Of course it is not the first time you missed a joke).

* And still feel, that way.

[Hjallti]

If there are not much real scumtells, it means scum is very careful, and might be lurking.

[Hjallti]

Come on you guys... I want to play mafia but if you are al trying to not play this game why subscribe in the first place?

Don't you all realise that you have to give content to have content. Only Claus and Oman are really doing this!

Gatorguy91 might have RL reasons not to be able to play this game.

darko first gives only useless oneliners and then a whining post proofing that you don't need oneliners to post something useless.

people start voting darko for it, which basically means you vote of on playstyle rather then on suspicion.... I didn't see a scumtell from darko (unless buddying and distancing, but he does it as if it is second nature, so I would rather think that is playstyle as well).

Everyone should try to have content twice on a page...Make a summary, ask questions, or answer questions, claim you found a scumtell, give your scumlist, try to recieve reactions (maybe that is what darko intended, but it seems he will get lynched by it)...

Since I want to see what happens next I will

unvote

, but oman, I still have my eye on you.

@Claus: you seem to play solid, I would have expected a FoS rather than a vote on darko for this. Can you explain why, does it mean you want a lynch right away rather than pressure?

[Hjallti]

Oman could you please

explain

what you mean. I have the impression you see scumtells in darko's posts, but I am not seeing in each of the examples one. If you are going to convince me, you need to explain why some phrase is a scumtell. ALL of them!

One example:

I find Hiallti's analysis to be genuine.

When Hjallti is hitting me.

This is OMGUS if you call this a scumtell, it looks to me as if you say: 'Hjallti made a case against me (hitting I find a strange wording if it is truthful* (as in I believe it) analysis) darko agrees so darko is scum.

[Hjallti]

Since I want to see what happens next I will unvote but oman, I still have my eye on you.

Likewise on you Hjallti, lets make a club!

Do you have another reason than OMGUS? I mean did I do something scummy?

[Hjallti]

I don't think we have enough to hammer, but I understand the points (not by Oman's explanation, but by pondering over it this afternoon). Anyway, I find the pressure good, but I would want to have the day a bit longer to see what else it brings. The rush to lynch here is a bit scummy.

I am loosing my impression that Oman is scum more and more (again by thinking it all over).

@Oman
I still don't get the point that me chasing you would make me scummy... just like you with darko I wanted pressure because I felt you were acting strange, the main difference is that you gave a town impression under pressure and darko seems not to give that at the moment.

[Hjallti]

I thought the deadline given by gatorguy91 was pretty short as well.

darko, may I try to translate (except the gatorguy91 bit, which is clear anyway)?

I played that way because it is my playstyle and I am proving it with doing this defense the same way.
If you kill me now, you have the whole 6 pages to draw conclusions, If you hunt on you will have more.

If I was voting on darko I would take away the hammer now, but than again I would have done so earlier, because I don't like a hammer so early.

Ofcourse you give us other questions now:
@darko: Why do you attack Albert B. Rampage during and Claus at the end? Feels like OMGUS, and as if you don't want to survive, since those to could releaf the hammer as well.
@Gatorguy91: 1. Can you explain your turnaround?
If you don't and hammer I will see that as a major scumtell!
2. Please wait I still want some answers during day1: this question is also pretty much unanswered yet, and I want to know the answer:
@Claus: (old question) you seem to play solid, I would have expected a FoS rather than a vote on darko for this. Can you explain why, does it mean you want a lynch right away rather than pressure?
@everyone: Can you give your disposition on this possible lynch also with regards to the fact that it is pretty

early

to lynch on what seems to be a hard call between playstyle and scumtell, in my opinion.

[Hjallti]

if it is twilight we have to stop speaking

[Hjallti]

I think this behaviour has been really scummy. Given we are with 10 during day 1 and there 25 post each page, you might even of less active players expect they contribute in average once a page some content. If I didn't miss something Zodiac contributed no content, and the only real thing he did was jumping on the wagon against darko, without own explanation. I copied al his post (left out most quotes, and you will see he has really done nothing but that single vote).

vote:Zodiac

Oh.. Hi. I have access for at least monday now, and then i'll be without access for thursday or so. I'll read the thread later today.

Not even a random vote, when people already started to unvote.

Back, but i'll have to read to posts in between , which i must do.

Still no content whatsoever

WELL MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN

FFS

MAKE WHAT HAPPEN?

(Oman answered to a post of camisade who was also lurking)

If there are not much real scumtells, it means scum is very careful, and might be lurking.

And if people do not get active, we can't find out the scum.

This annoys me very much... He is clearly not posting and then he tries to slip through with finishing my thought. It is like saying 'I am active'.

Uhh... What? Well , you're only spouting oneliners , and that isn't helpful at all , rendering you as a scum, and you know what we do to scum.

Vote: Darko

As if not even spouting oneliners is not scummy. Again he just copies the thoughts of others.

Like this?

Vote : Darko

. My bad.

Not really content, just correcting the mistake in the previous post.

[Hjallti]

After my re-read, Hjallti

stands out

as being really defensive of darko, even after it was pretty obvious that he was scum (

or just a really unhelpful townie

).

I am glad with your phrasing. First of all I have not really defended darko, but until the lynch scene I was really not swaying back and forth between: jester, very bad scum play and really bad town play. I know it is WIFOM, but I really didn't expect someone being scum playing the game he did. In the end I just wanted a bit time to see some questions answered but Gatorguy didn't give us this time. I was surprized to find Gatorguy was town, because he hurted town by his impatience, I believe.

I agree I

stand out

as scummy because I seem to have buddied up with darko, but I just didn't want town to be hurt by another stupid townie just going about with some strange scheme. I've read some games here where town comes bad out of the first day because some townie decided to try something different that game, and that was the impression darko kept giving me, especially with his last blablabla post. I would other scum expect to bus at that point or even at his first long post. But it is WIFOM I guess to claim here I am therefor no scum.

Everyone should try to have content twice on a page... (...)

You are trying to way too hard to look townie here by telling people how to play the game.

Sorry, I am just getting annoyed when nothing happens. The only thing to get from day 1 so far is darko being stupid and a succesfull lynch. We are down to 7 now. Probably some 3 or 4 town. From the lynches a SK and scum, and maybe another neutral (jester, surviver)

[Hjallti]

you wanted that he wouldn't be lynched since you believed he was scum.

? I think you wanted to type something else here, or you are misreading my entire argument. I never believed he was scum, I was always afraid he was stupid town, rather than very stupid scum, what he turned out to be.

I also never activily tried to buddy up, although that might have been the impression I gave. I did want some answers from Claus and GatorGuy at the end, but Gator not only refused to answer my question, he also denied Claus the chance to answer and the question (if Claus wanted this lynch badly), is easy to answer now, while it would have been more subtle before we knew darko's lineup. It even surprized me that GatorGuy wasn't scum. From the way of killing, and the fact that scum=zombie in this game, I gather that he was killed by SK.
He might have believed him scum or he went for the number two on his scum list, leaving the number 1 for the lynch. But that would be mindreading to know.

So , both acted scummy , but you did only buddy up with him. Why?

You two are scummy in a totally different way: darko in plain sight and you in the shadow.
I didn't buddy up with darko, but tried to postpone his lynch. As said before, I was afraid the bad moves of darko were bad town (rather than extremely bad scum). I think your moves (or absence of moves) are scummy as they are trying to mislead town ("please be active", when you didn't do a thing in the game yet).

[Hjallti]

Yes, I'm voting Hjallti because he conveniently forgot to add the first few brouhahas in day one. The message I got from him was "Finding out that darko is scum gives us no new info, so forget about it folks".

I don't understand why you didn't say this in your voting mail, which was pretty much crap. Please explain why you didn't say this in the first place!

In fact I do believe that there is not much info to be gather from finding out darko is scum, as opposed to the general fact that knowing the alignment of the lynchee does matter.

First of all darko was playing bad, and we all agree on that. Clearly scumbuddies would see that a bus. So we would assume that the buddies (or the buddy (the game might be balansed with to 2 scum, though unlikely)) of darko should have jumped on the wagon. But then WIFOM comes in: If good players know they are supposed to bus they can refrain from hoping town will look at the wagon alone.

Objectively we have 4 kinds of players with regard to the darko lynch:
the attackers like Claus
the silent wagonners like zodiac
the absentees
and the defender me, Hjallti

where should we look for scum?
Note we have to be careful; we are not even in standard C9, so a mislynch is probably lylo or could even be 2scum 1SK 1town left

[Hjallti]

Hjallti, your "to bus or not to bus" defense is WIFOM, please don't do it Smile Also, complaining that we are in pseudo-lylo is not fair either - you were the first to vote on Zodiac because of her lurking. So, two people with one vote each - not such a big deal, huh?

First of all I mentionned that it was WIFOM, and I typed that, because I try to understand the game while typing. It is like thinking a loud. If what I typed that way is really crap, I don't submit (usually), but in that case I thought it helps town to make clear that the whole argument should be settled. So I agree that I should have ended with a Zen-answer to my question:

where [in this list] should we look for scum?

Mu, you shouldn't ask that question, since scum could be anywhere in the list.

I didn't complain about that pseudo-lylo. I just pointed out as a "NOTE" that we need to be very careful today, since we could well be losing 2 townies to night as well, if SK and scum both choose different and unprotected townies.

@ Claus: I already started to build a case against Zodiac since my gut-feeling tells me somethings wrong.
Could everyone comment on how you feel with Zodiacs reaction? He clearly didn't defend but only attacked the attacker. It smelled OMGUS to me.

[Hjallti]

(...)

So , both acted scummy , but you did only buddy up with him. Why?

You two

are

scummy in a totally different way: (...)
I didn't buddy up with darko, but tried to postpone his lynch. As said before, I was afraid the bad moves of darko were bad town (rather than extremely bad scum). I think your moves (or absence of moves) are scummy as they are trying to mislead town ("please be active", when you didn't do a thing in the game yet).

So , yet you say that Darko

was

indeed scummy in your eyes, you still tried to postpone his lynch? Like you wouldn't wan't him lynched while you thought he was scum , and revealed to be scum?

Vote : Hjallti

Clearly you are very eager to put words in my mouth... as I explained I WAS thinking darko was playing bad, but until the end it wasn't clear to me if this was bad town or bad scum.

After the lynch scene

the answer is clear, so if YOU want to call his behaviour SCUMMY I can live with that and call it scummy as well (I may add that I am a bit ashamed to do so, because I totally missed during the first day). But even if I was convinced he was scum I would have campaigned to postpone the lynch till the monday, as it would make the day a bit longer, under pressure (everyone get tensed during when the hammer is about to fall) and so information might be brought.

As it is now darko helped his scumpartners to hide, and the way you played and play, for example, is in my eyes anything but protown. I still miss the slightest content, investigation, new questions, ... like a townie would do. Your only content at this point is your OMGUS attack on me, where I only can repeat and rephrase old answers (those that fill with me shame).

[Hjallti]

Claus asked my views on camisade. I will try now, but I don't have the time now to do with all quotes and stuff.

I have pondering on it since I first saw it. My first reaction was that I would certainly not been able to get this all sorted out. I feel Zodiac is scummy in a much obvious way, and his last posts are still giving me scumvibes, because they are to much different from the first.

This case against camisade is clearly stuff of a very experienced player. Second thoughts were that I was very confused but.
After some rereads I get the the points of Albert, at least the once that are from the behaviour of camisade directly. I find it hard to see if the moves of darko can ever tell if camisade is scum or not. I think Albert my be on the right track but it is not as obvious to me that Zodiac, who still didn't respond to my case is acting anti-town, even if it is bad town play, which I do not believe.

[Hjallti]

Thus OMGUS. Zodiac, you remain attacked if you counterattack. I am wanting to believe your game is nonattentive rather than scum tell but you certainly playing protown this way. I do not agree with the point that being scum makes more attentive. It depends which part of the game you like most: misleading or hunting.

I think since we have still three factions (opposed groups) in the game, we will not be in Lylo. 1town, 1scum and 1sk going in the night could even turn out 1 town at dawn.

[Hjallti]

If Albert is scum, Zodiac might very well be scum as well (In this direction of the implication), I think: Albert posted when Zodiac was at L-1 and didn't hammer. I know you can WIFOM away this argument, but I think the gain for scum if Zodiac is no scum and Albert is scum from that hammer is much bigger than the WIFOM gain (If Zodiac get killed and is no scum, then Albert seems to be no scum). Any thoughts about this? This of course is only a thought to keep in mind after Zodiac turns out to be no scum.

[Hjallti]

A pro-town Vig wouldn't have killed Gator or would he? Assuming that the morning scenes are genuine it ain't the zombies that killed Gator.

I thought during twilight that GatorGuy was he was scum for his quicklynch while there were open questions, that were useful when answered before we knew the alignment of darko, but useless afterwards.
But the lynching scene proved otherwise. Why would a Vig kill a player that has done something protown? I do think the Vig would have targetted possible scum.

[Hjallti]

After this post, Hjallti still tries to "explain" to him. Given what Darko says in his post, it's a wonder why anyone would still want this guy around.

I made my defense and I know you either believe it or you don't. Please, note at least I defended him before we all came to know that he was scum, it is easy in hindsight to say it was very bad play (as town) or extremely bad play (as scum), but I just saw before town players loosing games for town in the same moronic style as darko showed and I thought it was happening again.

Funny how I am under attack from the two that are being attacked right now.

I was already considering Alberts' case against you. And I hope in this game you are standing as a (wo)man to show up against the case, rather than dodging it again, with some strange theory that you can't be suspected if you replace someone people suspect.

[Hjallti]

I don't want to whine and I know I get modkilled for this but here is my role PM, as you can see revealing my powerrole at that point would have been a relevation for me as well.

BARHAH! You are one of the zombies (aka zeds), along with darko and Albert B. Rampage! You've smashed all the harman resources to bits, so now all that's left is to get your fill of brains. Each night, you may use your Death Rattle to communicate to each other, then pick one person to kill one of the harmans. Zambahs need their harman hambargazh, too. You have the power of Ankle Grab. Basically, you get shot, you 'die', you stand up for just about free, you get shot, you 'die', you get the picture by now.

Basically, you're unnightkillable.

Don't think your Ankle Grabbing will save you if the harmans figure you out during the day, as they will feed you headshots until you stop standing up. Permanently. Also,

Albert B. Rampage has the power of Scent Trail.

darko is a vanilla zed.

This basically means in retroprospect Albert and I were both told to be unnightkillable . That is why I was not that unhappy with Zodiac (for some reason I did get a scent trail result on her) would attack me night 2 for my blunt attack during day 2. Strange enough I found myself killed night 2 and then I started to understand what happened.

Anyway Albert did it solo and did it well. My only help was not getting lynched day 2 but that was not such a big effort, considering camisade/d3sisted actions.

[Hjallti]

By the way, was darko's way of playing something normal. It just took me so by surprized I completely misjudged day 1.
By the way both day1 and day2 lynch were basically due to very bad play, or do I see that wrong?

I was convinced that Zodiac was SK, and I think she shouldn't have killed GatorGuy, but then again I knew he wasn't scum and she didn't.

The following post made me really laugh:

On the other hand, maybe one of the mafia was bussing darko, and the other one was silently watching in horror as his two parters were self-destructing his team. I find this the most likely scenario.

[Hjallti]

I still not sure I understand how I got away with the second day. I know d3sisted spoiled it for everyone, but at that point I seemed to be out of the spotligh already.

[Hjallti]

I also would think at first sight a power role should keep lower profile then a vanilla. But strange enough people go metagaming and call a lower profile a scumtell. I think this is the game I did most content-talking so far in my games and I was scum, so I don't get that point. If some more games are ended I will be able to use metagaming to counter this accusitions, but it seems people see a lower profile not a power-role-tell but as a scum-tell.

[Hjallti]

In hindsight. Zodiac should have claimed I think. Albert didn't hammer her now, but could have. With a claim we had to back off. Then it was between me and camisade and I think that d3sisted (who got killed almost same way, almost same moment in Quack mafia) had to play the game. I still don't understand why he replaces, if he doesn't want to replace anyway. I might PM him to ask if I was more bold.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP: if D3sisted really went in the game I should have been lynched. And then it was ABR against town....

[Hjallti]

... and I thought I was nightkill immune so I didn't mind attacking frontal ...

Albert or Claus,
If Zodiac would have been lynched day2 and turned out Vig, rather than SK (what I expected), should I have claimed I knew she killed gator, and given she didn't claim I was sure she was SK, to safe myself?

[Hjallti]

when claiming mason you get counterclaimed, unless you claim mason with death guys?