Mini 473: Urban Dead Mafia! Barhah! (Over)

[Claus]

Very well, everybody knows the rules here.

Barricade. Shoot. Dump. Heal.

and

Vote: Gatorguy91

- because names with numbers are Zerging Zombie Zpies!


PS: I'm leaving for the airport, starting my LA. Should be able to check the thread again in 48 hours.

[Claus]

Hmm,

Mod

.

I believe PoppinPuffing voted for Oman on page 1. Or am I seeing things?

Zodiac, stop dismantling those barricades and come join us in the fun!

[Claus]

Speaking is uncool. Hanging in the corner of the mall, with a tattered Trenchcoat, shades, and a pair of katanas is cool.

It is also a wonderful way to get killed, I must add.

That said, I'm still happy with my vote.

[Claus]

I blame summer vacations. I don't get them myself, though

If anyone has to comment on Gator having 3 votes, it is the Zombie Spy Himself.

[Claus]

Aren't we jumping at shadows a little bit too much, Oman?

Unvote. Vote: Oman

There, you have something with a bit more consistence to worry about now.

[Claus]

unvote. Vote: Camisade

"Whooops, sorry for drawing your attention. Here I will unvote, I was just trying to draw discussion, see? But I really agree that no one is looking scummy here. No Sirre."



Camisade, I could believe that your vote was to draw discussion. But why unvote then? If you are still unsure on who is scummy, it tells me that the discussion was not enough yet.

[Claus]

Yes and no. It is the most Total, but not the first time someone gets at 3.

[Claus]

* Stares at Oman *

...

I wonder where is everyone. Maybe they all left Malton to play NW :-/

Mod, could we get a mass prodding on people who have not posted for four or more days? I'll make a list on the next post.

[Claus]

Players who seem to have AP'd out:

Gatorguy91 (last post 24th)
Hjallti (last post 24th)
Sir Tornado (last post 25th)
TSQ (last post 25th)

Asking the mod for a prod on those.

[Claus]

Hjallti:

I agree that Oman is erratic. But given the pace of this game, I tend to believe that indeed he is just impatient. I don't want to vote a super-active just yet.

I would rather follow some of your other comments. For instance, that Sir Tornado is indeed lurking. But for now I'm happy with my vote, at least Camisade comes up with a more interesting conclusion from his "test".

[Claus]

So you guys are mostly voting me only because I'm spouting off one-liners and look to be unhelpful or is there some other reason that you think that I'm trying to blablabla bla bla blabla bla blabla bla bla bla bla blablabla blabla bla blabla bla blablabla bla blab Because if you really think that I'm mafia and that I'm doing this to intentionally sabotage the town, then blablablablabla bla bla bla blabla bla bla I'm just not helpful and therefore am blabla bla blablabla bla blabla bla bla blablabla bla since I'm lazy and don't care to blabla bla blablabla bla bla. I'll try, but I can't guarantee you'll like the answers.

Unvote. Vote Darko.

You really are asking for it. You see, the opposite of unhelpful one liners is NOT unhelpful walls of text.

[Claus]

DEM? I don't recognize that group.

I'm sad to see Oman go, and I'm a bit suspicious of Hjaltti defending Darko so intensely, but not enough to point a FoS at her yet.

I'd like to make a question to those more experienced. Assuming we have mafia and a SK (this looks like the most likely setup), what would be the probable number of mafia for a game this size? 4? 3?

[Claus]

Also just realised, my third game, and my third game with Gatorguy...Jesus.

This is from the first page. Oh the poetic justice that the two were killed together!!

Next post will be serious, promise.

[Claus]

Hey there!

Hjallti, about your questioning me about the Darko vote, it was really just due to his attitude. If you had pressured me, I would probably end up unvoting. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I had this thesis thing to finish by the 6th (this monday), and was keeping my participation in these forums to a minimum.

But, yeah, it is a moot point today. So let's see something else from you:

Sorry, I am just getting annoyed when nothing happens. The only thing to get from day 1 so far is darko being stupid and a succesfull lynch. We are down to 7 now. Probably some 3 or 4 town. From the lynches a SK and scum, and maybe another neutral (jester, surviver)

This bothers me to no end. Day 1 was not just Darko acting up and we lynching scum: We had Camisade's little silent vote on you. Guess who was the first to jump on her due to that vote?

Also, if we had 3 scum to begin with, and one SK, we are down to 2 scum, 1 SK, and 4 townies. That is less than C9.

So here:

Vote: Hjallti

I do think, sir, that you are scum.

About the other players, Zodiac was indeed lurking to an unconfortable degree on day one, as was Sir Tornado. Camisade would do well to show up today.

[Claus]

Claus, I'm not quite seeing your vote on Hjallti. Earlier, you weren't even willing to put an FoS on him. And now you're voting him because he focused on the major event of Day 1 and didn't mention the minor events?

Forget the setup thing, that has nothing to do with my vote (like poppin quotet) - bad formatting of my part, sorry.

Yes, I'm voting Hjallti because he conveniently forgot to add the first few brouhahas in day one. The message I got from him was "Finding out that darko is scum gives us no new info, so forget about it folks".

It felt to me that he wanted to sush conversation about what happened yesterday, so the only link between he and Darko was his defense, which is justifiable. Well, I would like comments on this second link I think I have found - darko quickly voting Camisade for her silent vote on hjallti, followed by him cheering Albert and Poppingpuffing to join his bandwagon.

Am I seeing too much into things?



Also, I voted, instead of FoSing, because I wanted to draw out people to defend/accuse him more actively. Nice to see it worked.

[Claus]

Yes, I'm voting Hjallti because he conveniently forgot to add the first few brouhahas in day one. The message I got from him was "Finding out that darko is scum gives us no new info, so forget about it folks".

I don't understand why you didn't say this in your voting mail, which was pretty much crap. Please explain why you didn't say this in the first place!

This bothers me to no end.

Day 1 was not just Darko acting up and we lynching scum: We had Camisade's little silent vote on you.

Guess who was the first to jump on her due to that vote?

I did say this on my voting mail, Hjallti. I just spelled it completely in the second, when people complained I was not clear.

Albert, this is the second link I mentioned. The first is the defense, the second is Darko's attack on camisade.

Hjallti, your "to bus or not to bus" defense is WIFOM, please don't do it Also, complaining that we are in pseudo-lylo is not fair either - you were the first to vote on Zodiac because of her lurking. So, two people with one vote each - not such a big deal, huh?

If you really want me to get off your back, build a better case against someone else. I'm listening.

[Claus]

Given the fact that darko was playing scum pretty obviously, I think it follows that the rest of his play was an open book in regards to his scum buddies as well. I'd like to hear from camisade on this before I make a decision.

Well, I would like to hear more from YOU before you make a decision. You follow Albert "Oh, that's very interesting", "Let me hear more about this", but do you have an opinion yourself? SirTornado was also terribly on the fence on day one.

unvote. FoS: Hjallti

I have just re-read the game again, and I think I'll step back a little from my vote on you. Mind you, I still think your buddying up with Darko suspicious, but I found a second explanation to your "forgetting", that would match a Hjallti-town.

[Claus]

biggerFoS: Zodiac

You made your case against hjallti very wordly when he voted you. You might want to get wordy again, because I'm about to vote you too.

[Claus]

Zodiac, OMGUS'ing Hjallti is really all you have to contribute in the game? :-/

[Claus]

Well, I'll try to contribute with my own ideas about the current people, for whatever it is worth:

Pro-townish:
Albert, Poppinpuffing

Albert: Gets a medal for starting the Darko Bandwagon on D1, and has pushed not too shabby analysis today. I'm ambivalent on his analysis of Camisade, however. On one hand, he seems right when he says that Camisade took it easy with Darko. On the other, his analysis of Darko protecting camisade seems a little far-fetched. Why would Darko push for Albert and Poppinpuffing to vote camisade, just to unvote and attack albert? It seems to me instead that Darko wanted to try to use the "voted just because I said so" excuse on albert instead.

Poppinpuffing:
Pushed some good content on day one. Stopped talking a little after voting darko. First posts on D2 were fine, waiting for her return.

Don't like:
Camisade, pulsewidth (SirTornado)

Camisade:
Lurkish. Voted Hjalltii out of the blue to "draw discussion", but didn't come up with any conclusions from her "test" - could be distancing. Tries to throw mud on Oman via Darko, like Hjallti is doing. But then berates pulswidth for berating me on my Hjallti vote. Otherwise lurkish on D1, assumes a very weak anti-lynch position.

Regarding Albert's vote, Darko's attack on him does not look like distancing for me. I was actually giving town points for Camisade due to that attack.

Pulsewidth: SirTornado Posted a whole 3 times in D1, then asks to be replaced. I hate things like this. Was he lurking, or was he really unable to participate the whole time? D2: I don't like how he FOSes me for voting Hjallti after he himself Mega foses him (obviously ) but his line of thought is not completely bad. Then he starts playing Watson to Albert, and says that's because how he plays when he is uncertain. PW, now that you've voted, are you certain enought to pull out opinions of your own? Who were you deciding between when you said you had to "make a decision"?

Scummy:
Hjallti, Zodiac

Hjallti:
Votes Darko for vote hopping in page 2 or 3, then unvotes because he'll be "10 days away". 10 days later, comes back and makes a big analysis. Says that "Albert, Poppinpuffing, Darko" had "normal reaction to camisade's test, trying to get content". Starts pushing for a Oman lynch. Questions me and others for voting Darko, never questions Poppinpuffing. - Looking less scummy after this re-read. D2 - attacks Zodiac and defends against my accusations.

Hjallti - Opinions on Camisade?

Zodiac: Lurked through all of day 1, and suddenly votes Darko. On D2 OMGUSes Hjallti and does little else. I would vote her if two people I find suspicious were not on the bandwagon already :-/

Zodiac - opinions on the game other than "Hjallti sucks"?

[Claus]

mod:

You should (gently) prod poppinpuffing as well, she said her internet was fixed already two days ago. Unless the zeds came in and bashed the generator in her safehouse.

[Claus]

Don't worry, Pulsewidth. I don't want you to mindread SirTornado. I just want the remind myself, and the rest of the players, to analyse the both of you together.

On the other hand, the "he was unable to play the whole time" hyphotesis do not really hold - at least not for the majority of D1. ST himself said that he didn't contribute because "nothing was happening", as opposed to "I can't keep up".

Anyway, thanks for the insight. Makes sense.

[Claus]

PoppinPuffin, are you back for good?

What did you think of my hjallti Analysis, after sleeping on it? Did it give you a sore shoulder?
What do you think on the ABR-Camisade-Darko trio?

Regarding Zodiac, she only has two posts today. On the first one, she accuses Hjallti after being accused by her, and on the second one, she throws some more mud on Hjallti, and votes her. Just pick the last two Zodiac posts.

[Claus]

Zodiac - opinions on the game other than "Hjallti sucks"?

Okay, SirTornado (or whoever replaced him , wasn't it Kira or sumthin'?) i think might be scum. Just a gut feeling.

Got to think of more, but now can't..

Ok. I think I got your line of thought about the game now.

vote: Zodiac

Do you have a gut feeling about me too now?

:-/

[Claus]

What do you think on the ABR-Camisade-Darko trio?

3. I don't like the way albert is playing, which may be because I have a gut feeling he is scum or because I just don't like his playstyle. I see logic in your "trio" but am reticent to vote albert as of yet.

Errr... I think you misunderstood me, I was not suggesting that ABR-Darko-Camisade are scum together. I was asking what do you think about Albert accusing Camisade of buddying up with Darko.

About Zodiac, I don't think she is a Zed - but we have 2 scum groups, and I DO think she is in the second one. Damn katana wielding PK trenchcoaters!

[Claus]

The situation could be far better. Has anyone even thought about the possibility of a pro-town vig?

Why would a pro-town vig random kill someone on N0?

[Claus]

I'm here. I think Albert needs to do a better case for camisade, or explain to us why Zodiac is not a good lynch.

Well, not only albert, anyone really :-/

[Claus]

A pro-town Vig wouldn't have killed Gator or would he? Assuming that the morning scenes are genuine it ain't the zombies that killed Gator.

I don't know. We don't need to suppose the Vig/NK to be bright. I can see a hasty vig/NK to see Gator as scum. Anyway, isn't NK strategy supposed to be to hunt equally scum and town, since they can be endgamed?

Nevertheless, the random N0 nightkill is what hints NKish to me.

[Claus]

Whops... I meant SK when I wrote NK. Urgh.

[Claus]

Well, if you are not going to bother making a counter analysis on Zodiac... :-/

I've read both cases, and I prefer the one I am right now. If all you got to say about it is "What BS!" I guess I'm keeping my vote.

[Claus]

Picking up the prod. Sorry bout that guys. I'm disappointed to see camisade hasn't answered my question yet. In fact, he seems to be doing the exact same thing that he was doing before the darko lynch: just hanging around waiting for something to happen. Aside from his weird vote on Hjallti early in the game, I don't really see where he has actively scumhunted. He's just kind of.. there. Lurking in plain sight generally isn't a good thing. camisade, in addition to my previous question, I want to get your thoughts on Zodiac.

Claus, I want a better explanation as to why you think Zodiac is in one of the scum groups.

Original reasons for the vote:
1- Not contributing to the game
1.5- opportunistic jump into Darko bandwagon.
2- Only contribution seems to be OMGUS hjallti, in a way that bothers me.

Then, Zodiac suddenly posts the "what if we have a vig?"
3- Seems like he is hinting at being the vig. I don't think the two extra night kills we
had are vig kills.

All in all, it seems to me that your accusations of Camisade are similar to mine on Zodiac. Lurking, not scumhunting, etc. I can see the possibility that both Camisade could be a Zed, and Zodiac the PK (SK).

I'm ambivalent. Zodiac's and Albert's attitudes make me prefer the Zodiac Lynch.
That said, you are right that camisade does need to scumhunt more actively, instead of just showing amusement that people are not commenting on him very much.

[Claus]

Re-reading the last few pages.

If Albert is scum, Zodiac might very well be scum as well (In this direction of the implication), I think: Albert posted when Zodiac was at L-1 and didn't hammer. I know you can WIFOM away this argument, but I think the gain for scum if Zodiac is no scum and Albert is scum from that hammer is much bigger than the WIFOM gain (If Zodiac get killed and is no scum, then Albert seems to be no scum). Any thoughts about this? This of course is only a thought to keep in mind after Zodiac turns out to be no scum.

I REALLY don't like this. You should be more upfront in saying that "If Zodiac is scum, albert is scum for defending him". I don't believe that thesis. Albert-scum bussed darko in cold blood, and would certainly do it again.

His -1 post is consistent to his previous comment of "I'm not feeling the Zodiac Bandwagon".

[Claus]

Albert, you ARE seeing something I'm not. I'm trying to decide if that something is really there or not. Specifically, the links darko has with camisade.

About Zodiac.

1.5 is a good thing in retrospect. But he gave no reason for his vote. 6 people were in the wagon, and we should have 4 reds (3 mafia + SK). 10 people were alive day one. Unless you believe all remaining three reds were out of the wagon (and you don't seem to), then we have at least one red voting.

The alternative to Zodiac is that either you, or me, or poppinpuffin is the "bussing" red.

And Zodiac is not a newbie. His join date is 2006, and he has quite a few games under his belt. One thing counting for him is that he does seems to be the silent kind, at least in the few games that I've read. I have not read enough to make a decision on that, though.

[Claus]

*raises hand*

[Claus]

I have a few comments. I'll read an comment with more detail in the weekend.

1- "SK wouldn't fit the theme very well" is untrue. UD is know for the large number of Player Killers. Mind you, both SK and Vig are theme-possible, but I find Vig unlikely given the N0 nightkill.

2- Please name your quotes, or at least group them. It got difficult to remember whose quote was which from what you put on the thread.

[Claus]

EBWoP:

I'll write a reply with more details in the weekend.

[Claus]

Not before the weekend. Sorry.

[Claus]

Ok. I think I got your line of thought about the game now.

vote: Zodiac

Do you have a gut feeling about me too now?

:-/

Okay, i'd like to know the meaning of this vote.

Sure. It means that your only contribution to the game so far has been to spout WIFOM. You attacked back Hjallti for her attack on you. And when I asked you to contribute more, all you did was to FoS the other player who was voting you.

Now to my current opinion: next post

[Claus]

Ok, my weekend has been more active than I expected, so I just had time to re-read the last couple of pages.

I don`t really like the way that d3sisted has been defending himself recently. Some statements, like ¨are my actions governed by my predecessor¨ and ¨it is town to be anti-lynch, scum are pro-lynch¨ strike a never with me, because they are wrong - it is deceiving to try to separate yourself from your predecessor, and it is pro-scum to be anti-lynch.

I`m honestly unsure about all this. Both poppinpuffin and hjallti seem to be away for the duration of the deadline. So I`ll concede to Albert that he is probably seeing something that I am not, and vote d3s to put him on top of the lynch pile (I would just unvote, but that would put hjallti on top of the lynch pile, and not d3s).

unvote, vote: d3sisted

[Claus]

VT? What is that?

Well, d3, actually your "defense" was what made me swing my vote on you. So don't throw blame at Camisade, for at least in my eyes, you are as responsible as he is for your lynch.

[Claus]

Also, why "if you are townie, then look at pulsewidth and claus". Why not albert, and is voting you all that me and pulsewidth have done as scummy? The other's silent approval of your lynching is not scummy then?

So maybe because Hjallti didn't vote on you, she is not scummy anymore?

You are not the first to try that line, but it seems more and more to me that "If I'm town when I die, look at those who voted for me!" seems more like a tatic to try to scare voters out of your back, than an actual defense.

[Claus]

Hey hey, easy there folks.

So d3s is a dick deserving to be tossed together with the hordes of katana trenchcoaters holed up in Caigar Mall? Yeah, I guess so. But I also believe the game is far from being "messed up".

So let's just cool down, and wait for Smashy to sort this up, okay?

Modedit: There's few trenchies to be found in a ruined Caiger.

[Claus]

Bah! Gah Harmanz!

Shambles over to the nearest cemetery.

Mrh?

[Claus]

Congratz Mafia! Albert bussing Darko Threw me off. I just started to "see" it by the end of day 2, and his d3 play.

I'm not sure how revealing Hjallti's power would have helped the town - would anyone care to explain?

Zodiac should have revealed himself as Vig.

Funny thing, on D1, I was in doubt between protecting ABR, and protecting Oman

The D3s lych was out of spite - even if he was a townie >:(

Barhah, everyone! Easily the most entertaining game I had in mafiascum so far.

[Claus]

They did it to make me kick myself in the head, because I was THIS close to protecting you N2, but decided otherwise.

[Claus]

Yeah, the secret of Mafia is not telling any lies

I was also convinced of Zodiac-SK because of his reluctance to claim. And because I believed that we had an SK, I decided not to pursue your case much further. I never really believed your defense, but thought that killing the SK had priority, since after that, there would only be one Night Kill per night cycle, and that would buy the town some time.

So, while I was mistaken this time, is that sound reasoning? Hunting the SK instead of the Mafia, in order to buy time?

[Claus]

At least from my point of view, you got away because (in order of importance):

0- Scummy play by Zodiac made me think she was a SK
1- you responded well and calmly to your accusations
2- D3sisted acted like a dick.

I voted D3sisted because of his behavior, because I thought Albert's case on camisade was weaker than both my (wrong) case on Zodiac and my case on you. The rest of town was really dead, though. If you zeds didn't kill off Oman, I think he might have banded with me to lynch you on those first few pages of D2.

Also, something funny. When I fleshed out my case of you, I finished with "If you suspect someone else, make your case, I'm listening". Maybe that was my mistake, because it seems that was the cue for Albert to spin his story about Camisade. Funny how I took note that he never said who he thought was the "bussing scum" of his theory, but never got around questioning him about that, and it got lost in the shuffle.


My turn to make a question: Albert said he offed me because you thought I was "dangerous to you". Since I was the doc, should I have tried to keep a lower profile, in order to preserve my life?

[Claus]

I wonder, if you were lynched, who Zodiac would have targetted, though... reminding that ABR is nightkill immune, we might have had a very similar result even if we DID lynch you.

[Claus]

If Zodiac were lynched D2, instead of d3sisted, then you wouldn't have died, I would be dead anyway, and we would have 2 zeds and 3 humans, instead of 3 humans and 1 zed. In other words, it would be easier for you to win in D3.

So I don"t think it mattered much your story on d3.