Mini 471: End.

[Adel]

vote: Blue Zebra

for being an unorthodox color of zebra.

[Adel]

FOS: Sir Tornado

for having a non-serious FOS on page 1

[Adel]

Your destroying the chess club!

Just because the collective brainpower of Team Mafia Scum can't find a response to 1.e4 c5 in 6 hours doesn't mean that I am destroying them.

[Adel]

Yeah, I changed my sig line to help them find support. They will need it.

[Adel]

Jesus, not another quicklynch!

unvote: Blue Zebra vote: Albert B. Rampage

for jumping on a wagon without reason and with abandon. He seems awfully eager for a mislynch.

[Adel]

Final

Fos: ABR

for dropping the third vote on Adel. If we lynch her now, we don't get any diagrams later.

I'm considering NabakovNabakov's post at 34 as being the first recorded action for diagrams. Take a look at my wiki entry if you don't know what my diagrams may look like.

[Adel]

@Nabakov: I see where you're coming from, and to be honest, I didn't previously post after 100% analyzing the situation.

Here he is trying to relieve himself of responsibility when I turn up town.

I just read the thread, noticed people suddenly get all serious after having made equally "stupid meta-game moves" and not get serious until a specific person gets targeted, and then both of them turning the attention to someone else... Meh, at the very least, I wanted to see how you guys were going to react.

When silly & random voting yields a bandwagon, there is something fishy going on. Placing a forth vote on someone on page two means that you are awfully willing to see a quicklynch based upon two or three posts from most people. How could you possibly be confident of someone's alignment on page two? Oh, that is right, if you are mafia than you know everyone else's alignment.

My vote's staying on Adel for now, my gut feeling is still there, and if you ever get nervous about 4 votes on Adel, well there are a couple of others that can take out their votes on her ( votes under "stupid metagame reasons" ) mine's staying.

With a vote that wasn't based upon solid analysis, on a player that said "what is with this wagon?". Page 2 is still randomness, yet you are willing to not only hop onto a silly wagon, but you are also willing to try to turn it serious and deadly, while avoiding responsibility for it.

unvote Albert B. Rampage vote:kravhen

[Adel]

we just stare at them until the drugs take over.

Than you must love my avatar

[Adel]

[Adel]

Common scum tactic:

1. Place vote on someone who already has a vote.
2. Wait patiently
...
4. Mislynch!

Lynches on day one are often close to random, so resting a vote on a player early is an easy way to shift the odds a little in the direction of that innocent townie player getting lynched. I think it is interesting that lynch -2 isn't close to a mislynch in your eyes... two votes away, and those two can come quick, and when the result is a mislynch it is hard to say who is the scummiest, esp. if it is a VI who cast the hammer vote.

[Adel]

Did I miscount? I thought he only put you at lynch-3.

Blue Zebra unvoted his early voe putting me back down to three votes.

Pickem: I don't know that we do, but I haven't been in a game yet that didn't have at least one.

[Adel]

Here you are trying to put FULL responsibility on me for whatever happens to you. It takes SEVEN votes to lynch you, you only have FOUR. Do you realize that out of those four votes, if you take out all the random and silly voting, only mine stays as a "valid vote"? If I was in your spot I wouldn't get too nervous if you were town because of that. Besides, if the random voters keep their vote on you, you still need THREE more votes to get lynched. I really don't see this happening anytime soon.

Yeah, I honestly thought it was six to lynch. Stupid mistake. I'm sorry for the confusion. I was lynched in about 10 hours earlier this week, so I might have overreacted.

My move may have been reckless and unusually offensive especially for page 2, but hey, at least I'm getting responses/results I wanted out of it. At least now you know, Adel, that you are under my loop. Weigh carefully every word you speak as they are going to be analyzed letter by letter. Be paranoid.

Check my birthdate and my number of game posts before you start threatening me. It isn't going to win you any games. Talk to ABR about it, and next time remember to look before you leap. You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch. If I was scum I would not be making this post, no, I would be getting you lynched in the next ten pages. And everyone else: please spare me the WIFOM noise, I am just telling the boy what is what.

[Adel]

You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch.

And how many of them were correct lynches? (correct as in scum)

None. Not a single one of them. Think about it.

@NabNab: I only game him the pieces; he can build whatever he wants out of them.

[Adel]

lovely.

[Adel]

But I will still say it: WIFOM! And, your comment about knowing it is WIFOM and telling us not to mention it sounds sort of like saying

"I know you will call this WIFOM, but I am still saying it, so it is not a WIFOM"

, which is even more WIFOMish.

You're probably correct. Sometimes I'm willing to say things that I know will be misinterpreted. I think it was worth risking this conversation to make my point. I'm ok with appearing a little scummy when I play town so that I can be more free in what I say.

[Adel]

Sir Tornado got it right. I was trying to illustrate that making pointlessly negative & confrontational posts could have unfortunate consequences for him- & he should be more careful in who he tries to mindfuck. Also, I often bully people that I see trying to bully me or others.

[Adel]

bully^3

[Adel]

Here's what I don't like about Adel's "birthday post."

Adel has proven that she has a tendancy to wagon townies when she's playing as town. This is an unfortunate tendancy, but it seems to be an essential element to her townie playstyle. That she

didn't

bus Krave into oblivion indicates a change in playstyle. Hopefully, this is a permanent improvement in her townie playstyle, but it's just as likely that her playstyle change stems from having an anti-town role as opposed to a pro-town role.[/quota] or maybe I am just a drama whore.

@Adel: I look forward to reading that LML quote in context.

It's from another active game I am in. The mini LoudmouthLee is in.

[Adel]

You shouldn't say things that could be misinterpreted.
If you are town it's not worth being scummy for the sake of being able to say crazy shit.

Hell, that is what I really enjoy about being town: I can really get into the psychological warfare aspect of this game. I am all about forcing scumtells by using torture as an interrogation technique.

[Adel]

Why did you feel like you needed to justify it at the time you made your post?

[Adel]

Then, you say:

Or they (

people who voted for Adel

could be scumbuddies that think Adel's identity is compromised and dont dare defend her

How is that possible? And how could it be "they"? Usually in a standard game of 12, you only have 3 scum, with a possible SK. NabNab wasn't voting for Adel if you check it again.

Sorry, but those two comments of yours don't fit in together.

His usage of "they" may not be the clearest way he could've phrased that idea, but English can be unwieldy. I read it to mean that he meant more scum could be among the people in the set of players he referred to as "they".

Now I am left wondering if your reaction to his possible scumtell is a scumtell or not.

[Adel]

I don't think me voting for kravhen is accomplishing much right now, but I am awfully sure he will dropping enough scumtells over the next ten pages that he will end up the lynch for today. I think CTD needs to start posting in a hurry though.

unvote:kravhen vote:CrashTestDummy

[Adel]

I never

know

when a person is scum, but I think he is scummy enough to lynch, and the final case against him will be convincing. If I have over 50% confidence against a person on day 1 I am willing to lynch them. I am more weary of power roles getting outed because they usually seem pretty obvious to me. I have a far easier time identifying power roles than scum in the games I play. If I come across something that exonerates him in my mind I will argue very hard in his defense because I think he very well could be the kind of newbie who looks scummy when playing town- about a 40% chance.

[Adel]

I have a far easier time identifying power roles than scum in the games I play.

<3

This game and your new sig are really making me feel the love. Thanks for putting me on your whitelist. What a compliment!

At least you

know

I am telling the truth in the line you quoted.

[Adel]

Who is trying really hard to keep you in the spotlight?

[Adel]

Who is trying really hard to keep you in the spotlight?

*points FoS*

Adel, what do you think about this whole spotlight thing? If you were scum and never "in the spotlight with me", how do you think you would react to my unvote as an attempt to shed some light on the other players? How would you feel about it?

I think you are scum. I am trying to find out who the other scum are. I'll let you know when I think someone is scummier than you are.

unvote:CTD vote:Blue Zebra

[Adel]

I would prefer to call my approach "direct". I am perfectly comfortable with that tone of exchange, it is like thumping an annoying puppy in the nose. It is a little unpleasant, but it does work.

[Adel]

Display all posts by kravhen, and read through them. It looks to me like he is digging a hole for himself, and that is the most charitable interpretation I can give his behavior . My vote for you is more of a presuure vote than anything. The only decent scumtell I have on you is your vote for pickem and then your unexplained unvote.

[Adel]

Why don't you try commenting on other players or events? That would be more informative. No one is voting for me, and nobody is voting for you- we should just move on. Our opinions on each other are known to all, and aren't having much effect.

[Adel]

In case anyone missed it...

Does anyone think this is a hint at being cop?

Comments from the lurkers?

[Adel]

Now when he continues to drop decent scum tells, people will be more more than likely to dismiss kravhen's posts as newbie noise and not mistake them genuine proof of scum. I think he is pretty close to lynch proof now.

It may be lazy of me, but I'm resorting to using my vote to pressure Blue Zebra into posting more. CTD parking his vote on BZ is a null tell for CTD and his replacement. I'm looking at the kindling and waiting for the fire to start.

[Adel]

I meant that i expect this game to get quite a bit more interesting over the next couple of pages. I'm happy making an inane pressure vote on Blue Zebra because he really does need to post more. I am always suspicious of players who seem to be through and precise editors.

[Adel]

Now when he continues to drop decent scum tells, people will be more more than likely to dismiss kravhen's posts as newbie noise and not mistake them genuine proof of scum. I think he is pretty close to lynch proof now.

The reason I don't think he's scum is that, besides the occasional scum tell, he is acting pro-town. If it continues the way it is now, he would not only make more occasional scum tells, but would also continue to act pro-town.

Is this the kind of posting the other players are referring to as "content"?

It may be lazy of me, but I'm resorting to using my vote to pressure Blue Zebra into posting more. CTD parking his vote on BZ is a null tell for CTD and his replacement. I'm looking at the kindling and waiting for the fire to start.

Why pressure me rather than ABR? He needs to talk more, but doesn't have much pressure on him right now. Are you just voting for me because I already have votes on me?

I'm not pressuring ABR because I know him from previous games, and I have a feel for how he plays and I need less information to have an opinion of his scumminess. I'm watching him, and if I find something particularly scummy about him I won't hesitate to share. I am voting for you pretty much just because you already have votes, I think you could use the spotlight for a while.

[Adel]

Zzzz

QFT!

[Adel]

it seems that you are trying to force the spotlight onto him instead of letting things unfold naturally.

that

is your scumtell against me? I don't think there is such a thing as "letting it unfold naturally".

[Adel]

I still say if she posts, i'm not 100% she'll post something good.

She'd have to be an idiot to not be on her toes after all of the post about here that you two just made. I think both of you probably had protown motivations to bicker, but the result is that a player is now less likely to drop accurate scumtells. Sometimes it is better to shut your mouth and just

wait

.

[Adel]

Yes Village Idiot is an actual role, it's actually more deadly and dangerous than the mafia itself! It does not kill during the night, but it SUCKS YOUR BRAINS OUT DURING THE DAY AND MAKES YOU WEAR SOCKS WITH SANDALS! I also think Pickem is a VI lolz so lets vote him!

...

Just kidding. Chill Adel. Don't start quoting the hell out of this reply.

(Emphasis mine.) I get a feeling of defensiveness here, to say the least.

I'm pretty sure he's still joking there even in the bolded part. But everything else you said was valid, especially staying his over-confident strategy then attacking Adel for it.

This is how I understood your post. I think his attack on me was more a function of his personality than his alignment.

[Adel]

spectrumvoid, hello and welcome.

While you do your read through, could you pay particular attention to Sir Tornado and the case against Sir Tornado? I think there may be something there, but I'm not sure what that something is yet.

[Adel]

While you do your read through, could you pay particular attention to Sir Tornado and the case against Sir Tornado? I think there may be something there, but I'm not sure what that something is yet.

The case against me? Sure, it goes something along the lines of I am attacking Kravhen but not voting for him.[/quote

Yeah? Is that really all? It doesn't make mush sense to me, but I'm always willing to accept the possibility that I don't understand some things.

[Adel]

checking in to avoid a prod. spectrumvoid's eventual post should get this game going again.

[Adel]

waiting on s.v.

d.s.'s last couple of posts makes little sense to me

[Adel]

is it possible for NabakovNabakov to replace spectrumvoid?

[Adel]

Can we just kill me already? lol XD

Townies wanna lose, so be it,kick me off.

I had a long post before in which I voted for crash text and I carried on my vote from there.

Sorrry about your luck, if you want to know,just look back on when I posted it.
lol

unvote:Blue Zebra vote:deadscilent

That post alone is the reason I am posting. You ring false here. I think there is a forked tongue behind those lols.

[Adel]

Welcome back NabNab!

[Adel]

Patrick: ds's post seemed scummy to me because it was "cute" and she is a girl. Girls often try to use "cuteness" to obfuscate scumminess. In RL "acting cute" is one hell of a tell, and I am assuming that the same hold true for games played in forums. I haven't played enough games with other girls to really know one way or the other, but I think it is awfully likely to be true for ds.

[Adel]

unvote:deadscilent vote:Haut Boy

I'm aboard.

[Adel]

Adel... why are you unvoting an person you have just built a case against? Because no one is buying it...?

What is your rationale for voting Haut Boy? Pressure vote?

I am starting to think of ds as being a potential VI. I'm not really committed to voting for Haut Boy, but I am interested in being a part of the wagon on him because I am interested in where it is going.

[Adel]

I then looked back at Deadscilent's answer and not only is it confusing, I also don't see how a kind of answer like that from her could easily satisfy your previously strong thirst foanswerr "an ". It gives me the feeling you're scum that followed an unvoting bandwagon.

Here is a possible explanation: ds and HB are scum together, HB was on the ds wagon as part of a scum distancing maneuver. Once given a slight opening to unvote he did. I've only played in one completed game where a VI was part of a scum group (Monks and Masons, where dylan was scum, a link is on my wiki page) and I'm interested in figuring out what the standard scum reaction is to having a VI in their scum group. Any difference seems pretty subtle to me right now.

[Adel]

I am starting to think of ds as being a potential VI. I'm not really committed to voting for Haut Boy, but I am interested in being a part of the wagon on him because I am interested in where it is going.

What do you mean by you are interested in where HB wagon is going?

This game has been

slow

compared to what I am used to. Stirring the pot seems like a good idea to me, and HB is a bit scummier than other players right now, but there hasn't been enough interaction for me to be really confident of anyone's alignment.

[Adel]

I don't think the game has been very slow, it's just we've had 16 pages and none of it has really added up to a good case against anyone.

That ='s a slow game in my book.

[Adel]

I was being serious. I don't dislike joke votes, but I don't think I really "get" the humor cuz none of the stuff seems very funny to me.


I'm going to

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

because he does nothing but confuse me and I want answers for his odd behavior.

I looked at camisade's 15 posts, and this is the most recent statement resembling an opinion on someone. He posted it on July 21- 18 days ago!

Totally lurking. And seems willing to let the day drag on until a deadline, and the probable mislynch that would probably result. The wagon on HB isn't very strong, so I don't think my suspicion of cam clears HB at all.

FoS: camisade

Stop lurking and start posting. I encourage everyone else to take a closer look at camisade.

[Adel]

In my experience it takes more than one polite post to flush a lurker. The only completed game I've played with ABR was one where I was scum and I really led the town Day 1 in flushing lurkers, so I've been hesitant to repeat any of those arguments from that game here, even though I honestly believe in many of them.

ABR: what do you think of camisade? What do you think we should we do about his lurking before the deadline?

[Adel]

waiting for it... waiting for it...

[Adel]

[quote="Albert B. Rampage"]I am trying very hard not to flame Adel at this why?

[Adel]

I am trying very hard not to flame Adel at this point in time.

why?

[Adel]

@Sir T: Right, I get townvibes from your play in Big Love, and scumvibes from your play here. Because you're using the exact same playstyle in both, and we've already established it can be used by scum or town, it pretty much locks the meta-game on you being scum here.

I'm not following this. I don't see how it locks anything. Also, Big Love is still ongoing if I'm not mistaken. Let's pretend you said "someother game."

[Adel]

Jesus. That game is still ongoing as well.

[Adel]

unvote: Haut Boy vote:Albert B. Rampage

I could support the Sir Tornado wagon as well. I do not support lynching Haut Boy today.

[Adel]

A fair question. I took a fresh look, and I don't have a good idea of who is scum. ds and Haut Boy seem less scummy to me than Sir T and ABR, or at least less dangerous as scum. I am not convinced that either Sir T or ABR are scum, so I am not going to push for their lynch like I would f I felt I had a solid argument, but the deadline is fast approaching and I want my vote on someone who is my best guess as scum.

I won't shift my vote to Sir T unless there is a wagon chase between Sir T and someone who is not ABR.

[Adel]

Not at all. If a scum is believed by 100% of the town to be pro-town, he is a dangerous scum. If a scum is under suspicion by 75% of the town, he won't be very dangerous.

I'm thinking of Friends and Enemies where 80% of the town (including you) thought I was scum most of the time.

[Adel]

Mod

would you give us a votecount please?

[Adel]

Adel is a good vote, methinks. How far is that from your realm of possibilities ?

Dude, the last two times you got me lynched I was town (the newbie game i count because the bandwagon you led is what forced my claim, I recognize that me messing up my claim is what got me lynched the second day). I know you want to nail me in a game where I am scum but this one isn't it.

However, I do respect your opinion on other players. Is your first pick after me still HB? I don't think that is a good pick either.

Sir T is 3-0 as scum- he is dangerous as scum. I am 0-4 as town, and I'm something like 0-8 (counting active games) for voting for scum at the end of day 1, I suck as town. I'm of the opinion that my vote on day 1 is probably going to be more accurate if I random vote than if I base my vote on my analysis. I've tried just following player that I think I trust, and that didn't work.

The Sir T is the only wagon that is going anywhere right now, which makes me think he is innocent. If he were guilty at least one of the scum would've started another strong wagon on a player.

[Adel]

Original Roll String: 1d10

1 10-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Adel]

Unvote ABR vote:Patrick

(I didn't count myself or Sir T)

[Adel]

unvote:Patrick vote:Haut Boy

reading back through my last post at 480 makes me think that HB may be guilty and the Sir T wagon is the one started by scum. I guess I'm really vote hopping now

[Adel]

Need I remind you that I was going mostly after Nab and not yourself ? That Nab was scum in that game, and that my instincts were correct ? Or maybe I am just bringing up bad memories for you.

Need I remind you that I was going mostly after SMS and not yourself ? That SMS was scum in that game, and that my instincts were correct ? Or maybe I am just bringing up bad memories for you.

[Adel]

meh. As it turns out I really suck at mafia. I'm like a verbose Village Idiot that people occasionally seem to think makes sense. That I make sense. I probably don't sometimes.


meh.

Should I claim? nah.

Am I dead?

Is Sir T scum? probably not.

Is Haut Boy scum? probably not.

Is ABR scum? YES.

The outrageous things he said about me in other games were outrageous lies. My interaction with ABR has been made up of my sanest words so far. Totally accurate= my side. Huge lies=his side I used to think he was just young and insecure, now I respect him more since I now think his chosen mindset occupies the same coordinates as the "winning mindset" best described by the book

Tiger Chess

. ABR- if you haven't read it, you will totally dig it.

A look into my current playstyle:

Observation 1- Day 1 votes in daystart games are no more accurate than random voting.
Observation 2- In games where a mislynch occurs on Day 1, typically three patterns occur. In the first case a single large wagon exists, with gradual and consistent attraction of votes. The graph of "votes on player" against "post number" shows this shape as a shallow curve with spiky noise at either end. In the second case, two wagons are about even with each other over the 50-150 posts preceding the lynch. Of the two wagons, the wagon that was formed last would have been a mislynch about 80% of the time, while the wagon that was formed first would have been a mislynch about 65% of the time. In the third case there are several wagons that seem to compete with each other in series, that a rapid collection on one player gives the majority to lynch. Of the set of all games that share this shape, ~90% are a mislynch!

This is why I am innocent, and the biggest proponent of it is (ABR) is scum.

How does Adel think? In colors and shapes. If you have ever seen the introductory credits to Bjorks movie

dancer in the dark

those animations are a portrait of my innerscape. If you understand that Jules Olinski and Rothko were speaking the same visual language, and pretty much in the same way, you have a model of how I think in that connection. I am an artist, a painter. I have to translate the ideas I store as colors and shapes into words in order to communicate, and that takes a lot of effort. I am almost handicapped by the form of our language in the symbols it uses and how it associates information. Words in sound or in letters has trouble making much sense to me. Math came much easier, but is still a challenge. I've never learned a second language despite 10 years spent in classrooms because I do not seem capable of it. When I learned to spell in Russian, I discover that I no longer could spell in English with any of the accuracy I used to- like from an 8th grade level down to a 4th grade level. So I have trouble communicating. My wave of votes in series (er, vote-hopping) was a fluttering that was supposed to fan the flames of my analysis in shapes and colors. This post is the result.

My death should be a one-4-one with Albert's. I am cool with dying so long as he does tomorrow.

[Adel]

unvote vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Adel]

Our mod set a deadline for a Friday night. Tuesday night would probably have been a safer night. Who really knows where they will be at 11pm Friday night more than a day or two beforehand, unless there is something really special planned?

[Adel]

I'm sorry I was the doc. I was a doc and lynched in two games within a week. bah.

[Adel]

...yeah, not that this was a bad result for me. I did succeed in killing Adel and pickem, which was in reality the only reason I had replaced in

you didn't care about winning, you just wanted to lynch PEG and me? wtf?

NabNab is something like 4-0 against me in games where we did not share an alignment.

good win scum, i enjoyed following it.