NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Pine]

Thor is only scum if he does not have the ability to Jailkeep and kill in the same night. Killing in that situation has far more utility than JK

Yeah, I'm seeing Boonwolf

[Pine]

Thor is only scum if he does not have the ability to Jailkeep and kill in the same night.

Killing in that situation has far more utility than JK

Yeah, I'm seeing Boonwolf

Bolded is the part that's different. I'm not finding it likely that he chose to JK instead of killing

[Pine]

BP doesn't make sense for Mafia because of balance issues. We've done this conversation

[Pine]

Also, he has to be at least 1/shot BP, because both kills were stopped

[Pine]

This is why I'm super frustrated with this game and a little depressed about it. There are things that are obvious and clear cut to each of us, but opaque to the rest

[Pine]

I explained that I was trying to soft claim mafia yesterDay to take a wolf shot, and to dissuade mafia from shooting me. Even if my BP had been used, I would have died and helped confirm some reads on people.

If either you or Pine are town - I really am fascinated by the idea you got in your heads that claiming scum in thread somehow translates to 'good town play'.

Hint: it is not.

It is, actually, though you'd be right in almost any other context. It has the distinct possibility of drawing out a soft (or even hard) counterclaim, it had the chance of highlighting wolves who smelled victory, and it didn't harm Town at all when it was quickly retracted and explained.

[Pine]

I explained that I was trying to soft claim mafia yesterDay to take a wolf shot, and to dissuade mafia from shooting me. Even if my BP had been used, I would have died and helped confirm some reads on people.

If either you or Pine are town - I really am fascinated by the idea you got in your heads that claiming scum in thread somehow translates to 'good town play'.

Hint: it is not.

It is, actually, though you'd be right in almost any other context. It has the distinct possibility of drawing out a soft (or even hard) counterclaim, it had the chance of highlighting wolves who smelled victory, and it didn't harm Town at all when it was quickly retracted and explained.

No - it is not.
No - it doesn't matter that it was quickly retracted.
And also, as showm literally the only thing you claimed to get out of it was a reaction that I was Wolf - which is, at this stage, blatantly a wrong read - so it didn't even help you scumhunt and, if you are town, helped you tunnel town all day and defend wolf based off the reactions of your bad play scum claim.

Look, we can argue about whether it was constructive in post game. You're saying that there's no way that Town would do it, and I don't appreciate the fact that you're foisting your own opinions onto me and judging my actions based on what you would have done.

I thought it was a good idea. I did it. End of story

[Pine]

Look, we can argue about whether it was constructive in post game. You're saying that there's no way that Town would do it, and I don't appreciate the fact that you're foisting your own opinions onto me and judging my actions based on what you would have done.

I thought it was a good idea. I did it. End of story

I am not saying there's no way town would do it.
I'm saying town who do it are playing badly.
If you were a Wolf it was good play (though I don't think you should have recanted) if you are town it was TERRIBLE play.

No one ever said I make good town decisions. Remember my hammer on you in Ninja Mafia? That was HORRIBLE, especially because I was super town reading you the whole day. I was town. Granted, you flipped scum, but still. No one would say I make good town plays.

I don't care so much if you make bad plays.
I care if you don't learn that they were bad plays and improve your game.
Also - I consider you capable of making bad plays as scum, for the record.

So...either way, I made a bad play...but you're choosing to scumread me for it

Super logic bro

[Pine]

Awesome

Boon, I don't know whether you're Town or Wolf, but I'm not Mafia

Best guess? Nero

Vote Nero Cain

[Pine]

It's not your emotions, PoE says Maf is probably Nero or TSO, Wolf is probably you or Nero. Either way, Nero's the best choice for a scumlynch

[Pine]

Well, it kind of has to be about my alignment, because that's my starting point. I'm Town, which means that Thor stopped exactly one shot aimed at me. The other shot could only have been stopped by bulletproof, which means that Boon is telling the truth (1- vs 2-shot notwithstanding.) Given that, compared to the pathetic power we've seen flip from Wolves so far, and Boon cannot possibly be Mafia. He's either BP Wolf (entirely likely) or Town (also plausible.)

NC is the only person whom I could conceive of being in either faction

[Pine]

Well damn

Kinda feel screwed by PoE here

Wolf Bulletproof.

Good game the last few weeks. I really thought AtE and active lurking was going to work, that you all might waver onto a different target

Honestly, no clue who the mafia is between TSO and NC. Good luck with that, either one of them would totally deserve to win if they can pull it out of the hat

I don't even think Slandaar and I did a bad job, Town+Maf simply did it better

GG

[Pine]

Ehh, there's an outside chance that Boon is completely bullshitting the BP claim, and no kill happened because he shot at me. I rather think he's town tho

Agreed that everyone did a good job. I look forward to watching LYLO

[Pine]

Everyone always goes so quiet at these points.

It's kind of annoying, because I usually translate that as a scum tell - yet all of you are doing it multiple times. It bugs the living feth out of me.

Well, your first post was at 3 am, and your second at 7:30 or so - I do this thing called bed usually.

Ehh, there's an outside chance that Boon is completely bullshitting the BP claim, and no kill happened because he shot at me. I rather think he's town tho

Do you think he's town by play or by claim? If it's the former I completely fail to see it - if it's the latter I'm getting more and more doubtful of the claim itself being true at all.

Also - good game, Pine. You were playing well until your defense of Slandaar - that was what swung it irrevocably for me.

Town by claim, mostly. Setup-spec wise, Town is rather weak on defensive roles. 1-shot commute, 1-shot doc, Jailkeeper is rather light considering multiball. Bulletproof makes sense to me.

As for defending Slandaar, I

wasn't

. That's what was so frustrating. There was a decent case for him to be Maf, and it was a safe position for me to take. In theory, it should have let me write him off and never talk about him, and then gave me a good excuse to push hard against lynching him. It was defense without defense, you see? If I'd been Town and thought Slandaar was Maf, I'd probably have been even more vigorous in opposing his lynch, as lynching Maf D5 was a game win for Wolves. It still baffles me that y'all weren't seeing that.

In fact, come to think of it, your absolute refusal to wrap your head around my insistence that he was Mafia suggests to me that the Maf is you

I guess I better make sure you know; Town/Town/Maf. Cry at me postgame if you already knew but I feel I need to make sure.

This one.

Also - Slandaar, not Majiffy.

@Slandaar - sorry for insulting your play by confusing you two there

No idea

No, because the wolf team is made up of:

Wolf 1-shot watcher
Wolf (assuming 1-shot) BP
Wolf Goon Neighbor

Mafia is made up of:

Mafia Even-Night Roleblocker
Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

It doesn't make sense for mafia to have a BP as the 3rd role. Mafia would have significantly more power than wolves.

This

Yes, it does make sense. There is a JailKeeper and a 2 shot vig in this game. Not to mention, there is a JOAT who has a bodyguard and a commuter. It makes perfect sense.

Why?
You are literally listing 2 town protective roles, why should there be a third and why does it make perfect sense?

Because 1-shot commute/1-shot doc is weak as fuck, and so is Town BP (it's better for scum). Together they make a halfway decent protective role. Not to mention that Jailkeeper can't really claim the mantle of protector, because it's primary utility (and the way it is usually used) is Roleblock

[Pine]

For what it's worth, Pine, I enjoyed playing with you quite a bit actually.

Likewise!

^^^
@Pine

Nah, not telling. I'll give my opinions, but not taking sides. Either Town or Maf deserves this, not going to bias it with hard info

I mean, I'm investigative now if there's a kill, as it will clear someone if I jail them, natch.

Not really. I'd intentionally no-kill if I were Maf. MyLo is better for scum than LyLo anyway

[Pine]

Props, TSO. Very, very well played.

[Pine]

Dunno about the first few days, but everything about the last couple was splendid. Definitely one of the most fun games I've played

[Pine]

<3 Slandaar

Reveal dem PTs

Also,the only bad wolf shot was the one that was jail kept anyway. I had convinced myself that Boon was lying Mafiascum, and also decided that I didn't like the 4-way LYLO that any other kill put me in, so I took a shot. Reasoning explained more thoroughly in PT

[Pine]

Dunno if Aegor is checking the thread anymore

[Pine]

Lolol

This is why I like QTs. I could give you the link, but you can't read it without the Mod making it so

[Pine]

Pine, did you know/think TSO was scum?

I had a feeling it was TSO, but that was with inside info. I couldn't prove it, wasn't sure, and he was least likely to get lynched. I was reasonably convinced it was you near the end

[Pine]

I knew who wasn't Mafia, who wasn't lying, who the Mafia had killed, etc. From my perspective, once Thor and Boon claimed, it could only have been you or TSO. I had a gut feeling of TSO, but his play convinced me it was you