New York 180 (Endgame)

[FA_Q2]

Vote: House

Because he is so damn sneaky

[FA_Q2]

Vote: Grib

For totally claiming town for no reason. Awfully fishy that they are so darn eager.

[FA_Q2]

YO.

Keep piling votes on TSO until he actually starts playing the game.

Trying to control town's votes are we... SCUM!!!!

Vote: Shinobi

[FA_Q2]

@FA_Q2: Get an avatar brah.

Avatar will come later.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: FA_Q2

VOTE: FA Q 2

Care to even bother with an explication. Naked votes are... naked.

This is not even proper pressure as there is nothing to react too...

[FA_Q2]

^ explication????

Apparently I can no longer type. EXPLANATION.

Dragon, klingon and aero to a lesser extent.

dragonspawn has played with me many times off-site as well as Klingon and House.

House has played with me many times onsite here as well.

House and Klingon both just got out of a game with me where I was scum and they were town.

Aero and Grib have not played with me off-site but onsite here in a few games.

Wake has played with me a couple times.

Anyhow, here's the game where I was scum and House and Klingon were town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=60334

?
Are they over at US as well? Who are they? I didn't think there were so many of us over here.

Ok. Let's generate discussion

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

Yay, meta question time.

Town games (8?)- babbling, hyper, tunnel friendly, sheep-y
Scum game (1) - lurkery, fence-hugger

I'm trying to break some of the meta but expect babbling and hyperness.

Silverwolf, it's cool, 48 was mostly because in the newbie game its like 5 or less to lynch so I was adjusting from that world to this world which is much bigger. What are your other scum hunting tips? What do you think about tunneling to pressure scum?

Wake are you the real House or is House the real House? Which came first? House-House or Wake-House?

House house. House was an asshole and wake is just to damn nice to be the 'original

House, OTOH, lives up to the TV personality

[FA_Q2]

The TSO wagon seems to be forming far to easily for someone that has not even posted yet. I would think that this is worthy of a prod but I am suspicious that scum is simply jumping onto the easy wagon that has an 'excuse.'

[FA_Q2]

I think it's very possible T S O forgot this game existed, tbh. It's a very T S O thing to do

I forgot this game existed.

Aeronaut provides TSO with a viable excuse and only a few posts later TSO jumps right on using it....

[FA_Q2]

@Silverwolf: What's fake about it?

I've never played with TSO before but his reads just did not seem genuine. I mean he gave a town read to vikingfan and Jared over nothing posts, and then with Shinobi it was bad when he called for everyone to pile on but then it was super towny when Shinobi was talking about how tough TSO was to read and why he was applying pressure and then he goes on to defend Shinobi against one of dragonspawn's comments which just looked like buddying to me. Then called me bad for not calling for a prod with my vote but Aero sheeped me and that was town which was just inconsistent and not genuine at all.

Technically this would be your second though I could hardly call what TSO did here as playing...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/o ... ce.377844/

I do believe that this is the same TSO.


not sure what to make of TSO's reads at this point. While they are fairly weak almost the entire thread has been fluff so there is little to build a read on.

[FA_Q2]

Busy as fuck this week. Quickly glancing at the game Silver linked while I have some time and I can see the difference in how much Silver directly interacts with people in the game Silver linked vs here. I still feel kind of weird about some of her posts before, but if this many people are claiming metatells then I'll settle for reading through a few of her games later this week when I have more spare time.

VOTE: FA
His switch from a decently-reasoned vote on Grib to what reads as a dumb jokevote on Shinobi is vomit. Even worse is that he softpushes Grib shortly afterwards and then does nothing to engage Shinobi.

@FA

, what're your updated thoughts on Shinobi now that he's explained his intentions behind pushing for a TSO wagon?

decently reasoned? They were both random votes. Gribs original statment read to me like a simple conversation starter, not really worthy of scum reading. There are pages and pages of random garbage in this game.

Shinobi's 'reasoning' is meh IMHO. He says he was 'pressuring' a player that was not even here and in need of a prod.

[FA_Q2]

Btw at this point I'm getting a scum vibe from shinobi and Viking. Town for wolf and wake. Null for everyone else so far.

Scum/town vibe absent any reasoning makes me think YOU are scum. Care to explain where the 'vibes' are coming from?

[FA_Q2]

Sorry for my absince - been very busy lately and involved in a few games so time has been limited. This thread just constantly explodes as well. Just got somewhat caught up.

It seems like every time vikingfan gets a vote, someone else comes along and throws down a vote for dragonspawn.

This does seem to be the case and makes viking a likely scum candidate for many of the reasons listed so far. The case against dragon is a LOT weaker than vikings and the fact that so many seem to have jumped on it just screams that as being a scum created counter to save one of their own. I happen to agree with silver in 467 on this one, a viking lynch would deliver us the most information at this point.

VOTE: viking

Silver I have zero idea what RVS means. care to explain?

How can you have been here a decade and nhot seen that acronym before? Is it uncommon here?

Could you like a game where that happened?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/us ... -zone.139/
The games are listed as "Official USMB Mafia Game X" and he was in almost all of them as Avatar.

I am not sure it would really help. What happened is that dragon rolled scum in his first game and then won. As the player base consists of the same players virtually every game, that tainted him for the remaining 7 and he was lynched early virtually every time.

I would add that he has gotten a LOT more defensive at USMB because of this - I think that he is tired of being led to the gallows early. I still have a hard time reading him though but I have never played in a game with him where he was scum.

[FA_Q2]

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

I don't understand. Viking is the lynchbait. What would lynching the one who is more likely town tell us? House said the same thing, in 464.

That assumes that viking is more likely town then Dragon. I don't think that is the case and I don't see anything from silver that would indicate that she thinks so either unless I missed something.

[FA_Q2]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

Not true. You were in fire and ice. I should have played that one differently

That's right. I forgot about that one.

It does not count though as you self outed to kill the ice team

I thought that was a really fun game.

[FA_Q2]

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

I don't understand. Viking is the lynchbait. What would lynching the one who is more likely town tell us? House said the same thing, in 464.

I never said vikingfan was lynchbait or more likely to be town. I've been arguing vikingfan is scum for several posts now. Plus, he's an informative lynch due to the counterwagon on dragon.

FA_Q2 has a point
I am taking the stance that Viking is the bait, and House and you thought Dragon was 'just being Dragon'.

If you believed he didnt know what RVS was what makes you think he even gets what a scumslip is? I'll grant that his post where he voted Dragon was bad, but Im not convinced wasnt overconfidence

I, for one, do not believe that he did not know.

I think he is trying to use that as a cover because the 'bussing' slip earlier.

[FA_Q2]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

You didn't ask me but I disagree with her statement that she says it is not different. The dynamic over there is completely different - a LOT more 'bitchyness' arguing and in general useless BS. Here is a lot more focused. In general, I think that meta over at USMB is of a very limited use.

[FA_Q2]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

....

Posts like this are why you seem so damn scummy dragon. Deliberate misdirection and posting a complete disinterest in the game.

[FA_Q2]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

Why?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

[FA_Q2]

Actually, after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me so I'll just go for SilverWolf and House since I know those two have been the two players most vocally against me. Post 62 is pure fluff, a lot of ppl are buddying up to her early on. She admits she is susceptible to buddying and accepts Grib's answer without further complaint and has a defense of Grib in her last post in this game (noted for future reference based on how one of these players flip). I find it extremely interesting that she says her weakness as town is being too indecisive (she's been VERY decisive where I'm concerned this game) and she says as scum she sucks at manipulating people but yet people have been buddying up to her this game, which is extremely interesting since the reverse in both situations is happening this game. Spends a ton of time talking about games she's played with other people in this game (of which I am not one). BTW, I find it extremely interesting that I am the common target on Day 1 and yet when I look at ika's votecounts, I don't show up on many of them, which is indicative to me that though people are voting me, they're also taking them off before ika does his votecounts.

As for House, notes early on that he believes Silver is town, defends Silver when she is attacked, has a LOT of quick fly-by-night posts with not so much substance, and he and Silver have been pretty much buddy-buddy all game from the start. Not sure if this is due to alignment or just being friends though. Refuses to even consider other possibilities besides that I MUST be scum which doesn't strike me as very wise. I've played mafia long enough to know nothing is absolute until the mod posts the death scene.

Are you bothering to even check? Last vote count had seven people on your wagon, not zero.

[FA_Q2]

unvote

well, that is a change of pace.

One post that has not sat well with me thus far:

Grib, I've interacted with many people who are not lurking.

My lean towns so far were: Wake (who I would maybe sheep if he were not V\LA), SilverWolf (already stated in thread), acryon, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Rampage (idk maybe), Celt,

My Need to Be Pressured Pile is: Naked Jogger, Cheetory, Boonskiies, Croboss\Replace, Jared615, House, TSO
I voted Ramapage in RVS and stayed because he hasn't done the thing he does quite yet.
I voted Jared615 because of the post I quoted + TSO defending him + I hate lurkers which is my meta in general.

My I Have No Clue Pile is: Everyone else

Also, you didn't answer my like thrice repeated question? Are you a townie green ninja shadow cat?

NJ, hmm...different people play different ways. This is my playstyle. I disagree with your read of it and also your sacrilege against Victoria Beckham who even if she was a maneater which is in itself relevant, is legit status.

I'm also still waiting your tunnel....or I guess 1 vs. 1 whichever or both they are.

A lot of people are reading elusive as town but I really do not get that. This post reads like randomly tossing out reads to seem town. He is reading me as town and really there is little reason to do so considering the limited posting that I have been able to do (and then states he hates lurkers). I think that thus far he is the ONLY player to do so. @elusive - why are you reading me as town?

Vote: Elusive

(and yes, I just scum read someone because they town read me...)

[FA_Q2]

unvote

well, that is a change of pace.

One post that has not sat well with me thus far:

~ SNIP ~

A lot of people are reading elusive as town but I really do not get that. This post reads like randomly tossing out reads to seem town. He is reading me as town and really there is little reason to do so considering the limited posting that I have been able to do (and then states he hates lurkers). I think that thus far he is the ONLY player to do so. @elusive - why are you reading me as town?

Vote: Elusive

(and yes, I just scum read someone because they town read me...)

FA_Q2, it was the post you made about why I might be keeping my vote on someone which mirrored my own thoughts and thus felt like a townie mindset. Each of the people on that list are there for a reason, you only have to ask. Cheetory linked to your post above (I'm not sure how its sleazy though?).

Oh and P.S. Elusive is a She, you see when you read my post and then looked at the avatar and name its right there, in the open. Ta da!

Aeronaut, maybe my paranoia levels are high but the last point you made seem to give scum bright ideas about CCing tomorrow. If a player was cop and didn't CC today (which I think unlikely given they there is possibility of protection) then I imagine they are playing the long game and will wait for a scum result to claim. I don't know, a player ccing tomorrow - they would need to give us a scum to be believed.

I did ask. You really didn't answer yet though. What 'logic' was I mirroring that made you give me a town claim. I understand some others on your list but the question was specific in relation to me.

[FA_Q2]

Should we lynch their slots?

One of the scummiest thing I have ever seen. WTH.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Elusive can wait till tomorrow.

[FA_Q2]

Mass claiming is a bad idea. Scum already have power roles to target and this is going to be a long game. Best to not give them ample targets and choice in this manner.

I already don't like the way we got our second claim, it was uncalled for and very anti-town.

[FA_Q2]

Strictly speaking, off policy, lynching klingon has some positives:

A, it's only a townie. We don't risk losing a power role on day 1.
B, if we move on to someone else, we risk outing more powerful roles (I do NOT want to out any protective roles or other town PRs at this point)
C, we probably have something like a third of the game being scum so obviously not every claim is going to be true. Strictly mathematically then, we have a 1/3 chance of hitting scum and that's going purely randomly. Add in comments like lynching 3 slots and it is definitely not a random lynch, ergo, the chances of hitting scum go up.

What am I missing here?

That it's not cool to lynch a Townie. We have a few hours until deadline to find some scum.

I am sure House's slot is Scum. However, since there's a general consensus about not voting slots:

UNVOTE:

There is no 'consensus' about not lynching scummy slots. There is one about not randomly lynching them simply because they are replacing out. If house was a scum read before then there is not reason to change that until his replacement moves the read.

Your last scum post was more like lets lynch these guys because they replaced out even though I don't have a single thing to identify them as scum.

This post reads more like making useless excuses.

[FA_Q2]

Ellie claimed?

Yes, see aero's post above:

I never claimed mason. I said a missing puzzle piece could explain my posts, and that I doubt elusive would be lynched. Both statements are 100% true. Hardly my fault you guys misinterpreted.

Elusive is very unlikely to be lynched

after

my flip either.

Explain this post, please.

Ditto on wanting that explanation. That was a pretty clear indication that your death would have some bearing on Elusive's alignment. There is only a limited nuber of roles that would fit that discription that I am aware of - mostly mason or mason like roles. BTW, it IS your fault if you think we are 'misinterperting' what you said. You should have made a statment that was more clear if you dont want people to get the wrong idea. Interestingly enough, MANY people already pointed this out several times. It is not like only a few got the impression that you were soft claiming.

Of even more note is that

you have failed to correct this so called 'misunderstanding' until many many pages later AND elusive seems to have denied the connection.'

This has you pegged hard scum for me. Everything about that exchange seems scummy.

Elusive seems to deny your claim here (as others have pointed out already):

Boonskiies, I'm not sure what connection you see between me and Ellie as there is no in-game connection and idk about the rest. Wake have you played with Ellie before and know of their play style?

And for Wake's question:

@Everyone:

If you had to choose between pisskop, Ellie, and vikingfan, which would you go for and why?

BONUS:

List these three in order from most suspicious to least.

Ellie - see above
pisskop - a lot of people seem to be calling them scum but I don't see a real case here. I am null on this one.
viking - I don't believe the claim either BUT I am not willing to lynch him today. Lynching a claimed cop on day one is bad juju without solid proof they are lying.

Ellie is certainly a good lynch candidate at this time. I would change over to her wagon if there was a good chance that it would fly this late. I don't see that happening though and I am fine with a Kling lynch as well. Not seeing any good reason to switch to NJ.

[FA_Q2]

That's the thing, Klingon is the best vote for today. Her comment that town is 100% gurantee'd to lose if she's lynched is not sitting right with me at all. I've said similar things as scum. I also feel like we are very close to a NL and starting a wagon on anyone else is pointless and a NL on D1 is a bad idea. I also feel like she's already claimed and I don't want to bring someone new within claiming range with all the claiming bullcrap already taking place. Plus, I've already laid out a case that Klingon arrogantly dismissed as playing from an outdated wiki which is crap also.

I have failed to see anyone make a really good case on NJ scum. I do see the aggro play and all the vote switching. I would vote there to avoid a NL as a compromise but I really haven't sorted NJ. Beginning play seemed town, later play less so but I'm not sure if it's scum or playstyle to get reactions.

Agreed with the town looses if she is lynched comment. That is not only an asinine comment but does not seem very much like her IMHO. Something is off.

I think Klingon's town & mislynch bait. Forgets she claimed VT. Says pisskop is cop. Votes TSO over easier NJ wagon.

Voting her reads before trying to survive.

Looks like forgetful or distracted town.

Except that is only true now AFTER it was pointed out that she was essentially all over easy wagons as they appeared. She was on both the Kitz wagon where I am sure there is scum for the speed and lack of reasoning as well as the viking wagon. To say that she is avoiding the low haniging fruit is not really the case.

Of course, it is even worse now considering that a vote for TSO is essentially a vote for a no lynch as it is unreasonable to think that an effective wag0on is going to form on him at this late hour without a much more solid case. Looks even more scummy.

[FA_Q2]

If you had to choose between pisskop, Ellie, and vikingfan, which would you go for and why?

Ellie.
I don't know if I trust Ellie. I do believe viking's claim, though. I can't imagine a D1 cop claim not being outed.

?

Why? That is the least likely time that a CC is going to happen. That is the entire point of scum trying to claim a really good PR after all - to get them to out themselves.

[FA_Q2]

FA_Q2 -- Let me be clearer. Anyone voting Ellie better vote me first because I will defend her to my dying breath. Got it. And hence another reason VF's claim is full of shit. I should know. I have faked guilties twice believably so now I'm fucked if I ever draw cop

@Ozgin -- Ask ika post game. I'm better as a replacement than I am at the start of games. I'm a lethal end game replace.

You are crystal clear. Clarity is not the problem. The fact that I think you are incorrect is the problem.

I do find it strange that you are essentially saying the same thing that she said about elusive.

You are not defending her. You are making naked statements that she is town. That is not going to change anyone's mind nor is claiming that you should be lynched first. Right now, I do not read you as scum and I read her as scum hence I am willing to vote ellie and not you.

[FA_Q2]

FA_Q2 -- Let me be clearer. Anyone voting Ellie better vote me first because I will defend her to my dying breath. Got it. And hence another reason VF's claim is full of shit. I should know. I have faked guilties twice believably so now I'm fucked if I ever draw cop

@Ozgin -- Ask ika post game. I'm better as a replacement than I am at the start of games. I'm a lethal end game replace.

If you don't believe me, have ABR check me. He's a claimed tracker and can easily verify my claim.

And ugh on NJ's latest post trying to lynch someone who's already asked for replacement. You should be trying to convince us why we should vote klingon over you.

And this deadline is going to screw us over with the ellie situation .

No reason to screw us over. People just need to support one of the leading wagons or enough need to jump on ellie to make it a viable lynch.

[FA_Q2]

Why? That is the least likely time that a CC is going to happen. That is the entire point of scum trying to claim ai really good PR after all - to get them to out themselves.

Hunh. I guess if they thought they could perform more townishly than the actual cop. And nobody tried to track them. Was that a part of the old site meta?

?

I am confused at what you are trying to say here. It supports what I was getting at and I have no idea about the 'old' site. This is essentially my first game here

A cop claim on day one is unlikely to be CC for precisely those reasons - the fake cop can be caught without reveling the real cop at a later time. The fake claiming scum WANTS a counter claim (at least this early in the game) - then they can take out the cop before there are any confirmed townies/scum.

[FA_Q2]

Sorry, I realized during the night that I had mixed up my role pms with another game. I'm unfortunately a VT. My bad...

That is all...

[FA_Q2]

So a vigilante or serial killer killed our first scum. Good job.

Going to check out some iso posts

We might have 2 scum teams here as well.

[FA_Q2]

So why is it none of the claimed prs were touched?

Good Q.

Viking claimed cop, one of the roles that scum would want eliminated immediately. I also note that he claimed cop without any restriction in place and yet both flips are non-consecutive. That makes me wonder if viking is bullshitting here.

Ditto on who did you investigate last night.

[FA_Q2]

That makes some sense - scum would have expected you to attract protective roles and a roleblock would have circumvented that.

That means there is the possibility that there are 2 factions AND a SK/vigilante this game though. 3 town per night (or every other night) does not sound very good.

[FA_Q2]

You're not supposed to be informed when you're saved...that means you're lying.

Is that the standard here?

[FA_Q2]

I have a burning question for this town.

Let's pretend for a moment that we accept the premise that you're told when you're protected.

If scum intended to nightkill viking, as he claims, why did they also roleblock him?

As has been pointed out - just because you are targeted does not mean the Mafia targeted you. There are a multitude of possibilities here.

The site meta, I believe, is enough for a VF lynch though. If it is highly irregular to be told that you are targeted then I do not believe his claim. The cop claim was pretty unbelievable yesterday anyway, today simply solidifies that.

VOTE: vikingfan

[FA_Q2]

Wake, I don't understand what you're saying. If it's important, tell me again. Who are you talking about when you say "anyone else".

I question the motives of anyone else who think you should be scumread

Who is anyone else?

ANyone else in general.

I glanced through some of the latest pages and someone mentioned it was scummy that you were apparently displeased at being a Vanilla Townie. At this very exact moment I don't recall the person's name, but I could look through those pages again, though I don't particularly want to because of AACBIS examination dates.

I don't see a single instance where anyone claims ABR is scummy for not being happy about being a VT. The scum reads are because he fake claimed.

I certainly don't buy the fact that he mixed up PM's. That is as asinine excuse. Several players that are more familiar with ABR's play have mentioned this is ABR's general town play though and that lends credence to this not being a scum tell. I would have already voted for ABR except that viking is a MUCH better read than he is and I don't see him and VF being scum buddies at all.

[FA_Q2]

But why would the scum role black and try to kill the same person? It doesn't make sense. Especially since there were two deaths. Last time I checked doctors dont die when they heal someone.

Surely you are aware that there could be two scum factions, yes? One shoots, one protects, same player. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

unlikely. Look at the role for pk. He is just mafia. Not red or blue mafia or some other team designation. Just mafia. So unless we have werewolves floating around it seems unlikely. The second shot is more likely and sk or vigilante.

I also want to note that both the role blocker and doc were both non consecutive. Viking didn't claim any such modification for his cop role. Do you think it's likely we get a plain cop by that the other roles are nonconsecutive?

Ditto on this.

I think it makes VF claim less likely though not implausible. If not for the fact that he claimed he knew he was healed I might simply file this in the interesting pile. The fact that he seems to have misjudged site meta though means this is just another piece on his scum case.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: FA

care to explain? While I still have questions on FA at the moment there seem to be much better options.

Why would he. Cheeto has tunneled the crap out of me without a real case since the game started. I am simply his go-to vote.

He has barely bothered to play the game at all.

[FA_Q2]

I think vikingfan is a town cop and telling the truth, but I am okay with his death and will probably hammer him if he reaches L-1.

Finally, you have literally NO GROUND WHATSOEVER to accuse me of anything when you are openly posting this.

Was this meant to be posted in the Scum QT or something?

While her post is scummy as fuck, I dont think it was actually meant for the scum QT:

I think vikingfan is a town cop and telling the truth,

but

I am okay with his death and will probably hammer him if he reaches L-1.

She would not have used the term 'but' with her scum buddies nor said she was okay with his death rather than advocating for it. It reads as though she is hesitant with his lynch rather than seeking it.


TBH, this looks like she is setting up to defend VF this day and getting ready to hammer him to cover the fact that she is his scum buddy. After a scum flip on viking, ellie is the next player on my scum list. Her play has been scummy to me for awhile this statement just screams scum.

Add to that the fact that she flat out refuses to expound upon it when asked. Scummy as hell.

pedit: @wake when the hell is lying about a role claim not a good reason to lynch? The case for VF's claim to be a lie is pretty damning. You are damn well aware of the use of fake claiming considering you do it all the time as scum. This statement makes me question your alignment as well.

[FA_Q2]

?

We have one claimed cop - VF. Are you drunk wake?

And no, outing the real cop with results on VF is not a good use of the cop powers...

[FA_Q2]

vf-may be scum, he was highly scumread and then claimed cop before he got to L-1, then comes back with a very complex claim that isn't really all that believable, OTOH I wonder why anyone fakeclaiming would do such an elaborate claim which makes me think there might be some truth to it, especially after all the other set-up discussion was had, his flip would tell us a lot about those pushing him right now, I think

It is worth noting that his claim essentially uses elements from roles that were flipped. Claim the doc and the roleblocker were both targeting him...

I would not call it all that elaborate - he was using information that was already provided AND verified roles in the game. The only real tell here was that protection is not generally revealed on this cite.


Read the claim as though that were not the case - as though protection is usually reveals - and then ask yourself if the claim is believable or not? Ask if it is complex or not?

I think it is similar to what I might have claimed if I were fake claiming. The roleblock allows for another day without having to give an actual read and the doc targeting him gives him an easy out for the fact that he is still around. He just didn't do enough research about the site meta on this topic. Caught in a lie - I don't see a reason to keep scum alive for another day when the lie has been caught. The arguments tomorrow are not going to change either - just a few less townies to push.

[FA_Q2]

I'm looking through his ISO and see that he has a scumread on FA_Q2, but still votes Klingon with him without reconsidering the situation based on FA_Q2 voting her and goes right back to scumreading him based off of nothing.

I didn't even really know that FA had voted Klingon at the time? I thought Klingon was scum, so I voted her.
Do you think my read on her should have somehow been mitigated by my read on FA?
I'm also not scumreading FA based off of nothing. I've tried to directly engage FA a number of times, posted a case on him and his reaction has been to sideline and indirectly take potshots at me. He's pretty aware of my pushes, I'm pretty sure he's trying to shrug me off to avoid getting attention. I also didn't like his entry to this cycle.

I have to admit that I'm a little wary of the manner in which you're pushing me, in that you're not actually giving your read on FA while basically indirectly defending him. What's your read on him? Are you intentionally trying to defend him or do you just find my play thus far lacking and don't have much of a stance on him? Why not comment on literally anything I've actually directly said about him instead of just vaguely attacking me like this?

that's not even getting into the fact that he keeps making excuses not to post and figure things out.

I'm VLA right now for a reason. This morning I wrote my third midterm of this week.

No, I am shrugging you off because your 'case' does not deserve any attention right now. Get something worth defending against and I will bother. You don't even bother to reiterate it - just fell back on voting for me. How do you expect me to defend that tripe? There is nothing to really defend against.


We have much more important things to address this day - the scum case on ellie and VF being the most blatantly obvious. If you REALLY think that my lynch is a possibility today go for it and build a real case. I will defend against it but you are distracting from the real scum that we have already cornered.

[FA_Q2]

q.q
That's not my point. I'm trying to understand your case on Ellie.
Is it her tone or just the fact that she doesn't want to lynch viking?

Have you simply not paid any attention to the thread?

There are multiple examples of scummy behavior from ellie. the defense of VF is the LEAST of those. The claim that she believes his cop claim, says it is a really bad idea to lynch him and then claims she is willing to be the hammer jumps out. The fact that she soft claims with elusive and then elusive flat out denies it also comes to mind.

How do we square that with a town alignment? I certainly cannot.

[FA_Q2]

It's more the indirect manner in which you've chosen to deal with me up until this point that bugs me.
You're clearly aware that I've been scumreading you, so why go to the effort to call my case and play shit to other people but not say it directly to me or try to convince me that I'm wrong? I agree with you that I don't think people are considering you at all, which is why I'm trying to decide what I think of what's actually getting talked about right now rather than apparently just dumbly trying to push you and everyone ignoring it.

If you're so sure that ellie and VK are scum together, why aren't you voting ellie instead?

Because I think that VK is the better target at the moment and his flip will strengthen/weaken the ellie case considerable. I do not think that the revers is nessisarily true. I also have an issue with blindly refusing to lynch people no matter how scummy they might be because of a role claim.

Yesterday the argument was do not lynch VF because it is not a good idea to lynch a claimed cop. I agree with that for the first day - give it a chance to play out. Day two roles around and the argument is EXACTLY the same. Why is tomorrow going to be any different. How long do we play around with vf? We already have a good idea that even if his claim is completely honest - he is not going to be helping town anytime soon. I dont think ellie is the best lynch.

I am not against her wagon though. If the decision at the end of the day is between her and VF then I will not shed a tear but I am going to stick with VF until I am convinced that he is not the best wagon to pursue OR it is shown that he is simply not a valid lynch for this day.

[FA_Q2]

Wow. Ellie is literally crazy to keep pushing this viking line of defense. I mean, as either alignment, it's insane. Lynch it with fire.

multiple people disagree with you

you need to stop.

oh jesus christ everything on this last page

fuck that shit


FUCK THAT FUCKING BULLSHIT

I don't disagree with you because your gender is set to "dude." I disagree with you BECAUSE YOU ARE INCORRECT

CHRIST ON A MOTHERFUCKING BICYCLE

fuck.

I can't tell if ABR is going insane.

Yes.

Probably me too, while we're at it.
But I can't help that. We're all mad here.

People disagree - how terrible.

It would be far better pointing out WHY people disagree rather than simply pointing out that there is disagreement. Disagreement is a simple fact of this game.

[FA_Q2]

Pisskop interactions make FA_Q2 look back.

?

I assume that this was supposed to say bad. If not, I have no idea what you are getting at.

care to expound?

[FA_Q2]

At this point, I would like for everyone to vote for one of me, ellie and vikingfan.

Then we will see where each one stands.

My role pm is still an issue. I can't say anything more about it due to ongoing games.

It is not at issue at all - virtually everyone is pretty sure it was an outright lie. The issue is that you lied. As others seem confident that this is your general meta day one (and it was even said that you were likely lying when you claimed on day 1) many of us are running with that as a non tell.


I don't like the fact that you are willing to lie and am usually all about lynching players that act in that fashion but we have good scum suspects this day and I am not willing to policy lynch when scum is apparent. Lynching you really is nothing more than a policy lynch. I find support of such a scum tell when there are good candidates available.

[FA_Q2]

People disagree - how terrible.

It would be far better pointing out WHY people disagree rather than simply pointing out that there is disagreement. Disagreement is a simple fact of this game.

FAQ CONFIRMED NOT READING

Goodmornig confirmed lack of reading comprehension.

Again, pointing out that others have said they disagree is meaningless because we have all see the posts. Reiterating why you agree with the case moves the game forward. Asinine statements like the above just make you look like scum.

Try again.

[FA_Q2]

VF, you aren't being lynched toDay. Not because I'm 100% sure you're a cop although I lean thinking you are based on pisskop's hard defense of you (maybe that could be setup for your NK) but also because ABR is pushing it and he isn't in the clear himself.

VF, I am also surprised by the resistance to NJ"s wagon. I'd like to see him flip sooner then later.

Then why vote for cheeto?

You seem to indicate that you have a much stronger suspicion of NJ than cheeto anyway or am I reading this incorrectly.

[FA_Q2]

ABR, if VF flips town cop are you willing to be the quick lynch next day? I don't mean like arbitrary "saying it for the sake of saying it," I mean really since you seem 100% sure and unless you were town cop or actually a PR you're insistence is to be believed why.

Also, your meta is that you are ruthless, manipulative and will say anything which is what I remember from the first game so pot kettle. And you tried to kill me town too.

I hate these questions because they are ignorant.

I don't see a good reason to lead a lynch simply because someone had a bad read - EVERYONE has bad reads. You lynch because they are anti-town. If you think he is anti-town then his answer is rather meaningless.


Would you really expect scum to say no to this question? Would you really expect scum or town to not fight their lynch the next day when the flip was wrong? Would you expect town to say no to this?

Then what is the point of the question?

PEdit: STOP ADDING PAGES for one second. This is the FIFTH time I have tried to post this

[FA_Q2]

So I leave to take a shower for about ten minutes, and 2.5 pages apparently fly by.

Wake me up when we have something important to talk about.

....

This highlights how I feel.

Every time I try and catch up someone else has already posted most of what I had to say anyway leaving me with... well... nothing to add really.

[FA_Q2]

TSO, I promise you we will get back to Ellie in the future, can we please lynch vikingfan today?

Do you not want him gone because of mod issues or do you not want him lynched?

I've very reasonably laid out why I think you're scum in a very non-personal way. I've been very specific about everything I said, and you should have given me the benefit of the doubt as town instead of latching on to me with OMGUS. I believe nothing you say anymore. I think he's town. Members of the vote block are manipulating other members of it to vote for him, and you are, and that makes him likely innocent.

ABR, ika actually linked to something Doctor related. What did you glean from that?

Are you claiming loud doctor?

@ABR -- I think goodmorning, kitz, mathblade, elusive and ellie all of those people are town. Hence not voting for them. I have said this before as well. When I flip town you'll see those are reads.

Yes, it's a vote block. Make no mistake about it. I don't trust it. And I am gathering my support around me to break it up by accurately singling out the scum in it.

I think the VF ship has sailed ABR, no matter how much you may want it.

[FA_Q2]

vikingfan: Dragonspawn, Nobody special, FA_Q2, silverwolf, Naked jogger
Ellie: ABR, T S O, Ozgin
ABR: vikingfan, Ellie, kitz, Goodmorning, Aeronaut
Nobody special: Ellie
Mathblade: Mathblade
Cheetory6: Shinobi
Aeronaut: elusive


Not voting: dragonspawn, Wake88, FA_Q2, Cheetory6

18 alive, 10 to lynch

11 days, 10 hours, 23 minutes

Mod notes: nothing

....

I am on here twice. Ellie is on her twice. Everyone want to check their vote and ensure it is where it belongs? I am sure that it is a real pain in the ass for ika to follow the votes in a game that like to shit out 10 pages a minute

[FA_Q2]

Oh so your definition of maniacal behavior is leaving voice recordings. I thought was assuming some sort of intelligence but guess not. Oh and hammering someone who could be scum is also much more maniacal than waiting for an overturn on what I know for a fact to be town. Right. Carry on dummy

Manic behavior is what you are doing right now and have been doing for days - BS one liners without any indication that you actually want to hunt scum. The last post that had any real reasoning behind it past 'fuck it' was 25 pages ago. Then, when addressed, your only real answer is 'no you' or 'no I am not' playground antics. The question keeps coming up as to why no one is voting you when there are a lot of people reading you as scum. Well, good question.

VOTE: NakedJogger

Lack of content, a hammer without intent and no real scum hunting and outright refusal to explain why what you are doing is pro-town.

[FA_Q2]

Wouldn't there be three kills then?


Also, Pisskop's role didn't specify a color or anything.

What was this about? It did specify a color (red) as well as alignment (mafia).

No, I think if it were multiball it'd literally say "Red Mafia" or "Blue Mafia" or something.

No. AFAIK, that is not the case with a wearwolf/mafia multi.

[FA_Q2]

More I look at her interactions with pisskop on D1, the more it looks like scum distancing to me.
She makes a vocal point to direct everyone's attention to pisskop being scummy multiple times, but doesn't vote for him initially. It feels more like posturing than anything.

pisskop, you seem like you want people to think you're town, but are actually scum.

This is the measured response of scum trying to look unruffled.

I just feel like the manner in which she's pushing pisskop feels fake and seems very intentionally loud. Like "LOOK AT HOW NOT SCUMMATES PISSKOP AND I ARE".

Look at the difference between her scumread on pisskop and her reads on literally everyone else now. It really comes across like she doesn't know how to come across as strongly with a fake scumread on someone when it was comparatively much easier to do it on D1 when it was just on someone that she knows is scum.

The elusive defense on flip stuff is weird and while weird isn't necessarily scummy, her inability to explain exactly what she was trying to do/being dodgy is general feels pretty off.

VOTE: Ellie

I like this vote. c:

Really? That is the sole reason why I have not voted for her. She is extremely scummy but I keep coming back to the fact this she was fingering PK when I don't see any real gain for her to do so if were were scummy. I could understand if PK were even remotely on the chopping block but it looks more like she was trying to start a wagon on PK rather than distance.

What actual point doesn't make sense TSO or Cheetory? Point to it and I'll explain nice and slow. Oh and cheetory does being voted motivate you to vote?

Based on ISOing and looking at the votals:

Aeronaut is probably scum (oh and great question about alignment of Pisskop, you're really reading carefully and that almost seemed like a town slip except it was such BS since his role aka "Mafia" was mentioned in the death scene). Boo hoo. VOTE: Aeronaut

TSO you led or co-led a wagon on town yesterday over stupid reasons, no one cares what you think.

If any scum distancing was going on it was between pisskop and dragonspawn. Or are you not reading the effing ISO, cheetory?

Since I'm looking at everything ABR says about VF with a shaker of salt, why doesn't someone less "boy who cried wolf" explain what the mechanics argument is in like 2-3 sentences maximum? He's definitely not on a faction with pisskop so therefore that must mean that VF, if he isn't the cop which I still assume he is based on just the level of derpage, would mean you think there are two scum factions. I'm almost even okay with an ABR lynch over the other two.

Based on what I know of Ellie and her play, she is not scum. People piling on her are the scum or idiot town and the wagons that are being resisted are Much More Likely Scum.

This is not her scum game and I suggest you get off this fucking wagon before I stop being such a sweet little cupcake.

And back to why I find her scummy. This 'relationship' that the two of you seem to have is extremely scummy. She came to your defense earlier without a single explanation (and an outright refusal to give one) with an affirmative that you simply are town. Period. Her you are, doing the same exact bullshit. I could understand if you gave some reasoning but you don't. It is more like ellie worship than actual reason.

she is soooo good you CANT lynch her and she MUST be town because I played with her before and she is soooo good. I, for one, don't buy that tripe. Then you blindly demand that those on her wagon are dumb town or scum. Sorry but there are clear reasons that people find her scummy.

[FA_Q2]

Dragonspawn, yes it was a scum claim. What will you do now?

One of the real scum is NakedJogger who ABR (and pisskop) has been hard defending since day one. Will you vote NakedJogger?

Also you seem to lack understanding of the roles of this setup and also have not read.

ABR will be dealt with.

Town shouldn't waste role blocks.

How about more than 'he will be dealt with?"

I could vote for NJ for all the reasons that I voted him yesterday but ABR needs to be dealt with now. He is fat to disruptive and his lynch would confirm scum no matter what (either confirm math was scum or he is). There is simply no better option at this time.

I would also like to know where you seen me defend NJ considering that I was voting for him...

VOTE: VOTE: ABR
I don't really need to explain why.

[FA_Q2]

For those of you who would like to blame me for ruining this game, take some responsibility. You bandwagoned the cop on Day 1 and forced him to claim. Then you bandwagoned the tracker and forced him to claim. Then you did it again on Day 2. Even then we would still have a cop but Ellie outted herself for bad reasons.

I may take a larger share of the blame, yes, but instead of being salty, think of what you could have done differently instead of hanging me out to dry. You are also responsible.

No, you claimed day one without even being remotely close to the noose. Don't try and justify your shit play on everyone else. You claimed far to early and then lied about being a cop. I still cannot believe that anyone really bought your cop claim after the BS retract that you had at the start of day 2. Pretty angry at myself for not making it to the thread before it was locked.

And now you are back to being the tracker. Well, lets get some good out of your role then - hang you and get confirmation on math with it. Or get conf. that you are scum.

[FA_Q2]

faq you scum

Because???

[FA_Q2]

I was asking you a question.

...

No...


Were you expecting some other answer lol.

[FA_Q2]

wtt math. How about explaining exactly what you mean with your statements?

UNVOTE

[FA_Q2]

*sigh* ABR is town. Don't do this please...:

ABR is helping scum weather town or not. That is a problem. Nothing he says is trustworthy and he is going to be in contention as long as he is alive.


Further, you are continuing to refuse to be clear in your case. If you really do want to be lynched and think it would be better for town the frik'n do so already.


Wake seems to think that you are vengeful. I am leaning to SK. Just answer if you think your lynch would be beneficial. It is going to take a LOT to counter ABR's wagon considering that pretty much all of town is disgusted with him.

[FA_Q2]

if MathBlade is Vengeful then why did ABR track her to Ellie? How has Math concluded that ABR has gone from 100% scum to town?

Hence shy I am under the impression that she might be a SK.

We have 3 confirmed sources of kills this game - she might be one of them but not scum. Would be simpler if she just came out and stated why she wants to be lynched.


Sad but it looks like virtually every single death ends in a PR biting the dust. ABR will not last long weather or not we lynch him.

[FA_Q2]

Well, I'm not going to share it because if I'm right there's a very good reason not to share it and if I'm wrong it'll make me look stupid, which is not conducive to the ego I'm trying to build up here.

IOW, more useless shit.

You are worthless math and you do need t be lynched but ABR comes first here:

VOTE: ABR

THIS PLACES HIM AT L-1

Town is fucked this game with all the crap play and constantly getting our PR's killed. Math and ABR have essentially destroyed any chance that we have to actually scum hunt.

[FA_Q2]

dragonspawn is prob town

Based on?
I am leaning scum because dragon has not actually added anything for a long time. There are posts there but no actual logic.

He reads very much like last game to me on USMB. I would expect more deductive reasoning from him as town. It could be the general speed that this game is going and the overall tone though. What makes you think he is town?

[FA_Q2]

Oh no. He is lying and town unfortunately and I can't believe I am trying to save his derptastic ass from the eventual fire. But one more night with his results is protown.

2) If I was the SK why would I offer myself instead of the tracker? SKs protown side but want to make it to the end of the game. Hell we don't even know if an SK exists. Could be 1 shot compulsive vig day one and two mafia factions.

The fact you can't figure stuff out doesn't mean that I hand it over to you on a silver platter so scum can try to break it.

Me or NakedJogger or TSO those are the lynch options.

Scum cannot break anything if you are lynched. If you had a strong reason to be lynched then you would outright state it. You make zero sense and I am done with you as I think much of town is.

[FA_Q2]

EVERYONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE TOWN.

Let's say ABR is taking care of by the Vig intermittently. WOULD you vote NakedJogger? Yes or no? Why or why not?

Ktiz, going to do your HW today.

Yes. I laid my case out yesterday (post 2684). It has not changed. I would not ocunt on that though and do not see a reason to allow ABR more time to disrupt town and spread more misinformation. At this time, he is more useful to town dead and verified even if he was town. Right now, not a single thing he has claimed has merit.

[FA_Q2]

Can I just say I have my reasons for now or?.............................................

....

Yes but only because I am tired of certain play entering into this game and I have a feeling that this might be connected. Will revisit later. We have others to focus on in the interim such as math and NJ.

[FA_Q2]

No, I know what ADHD is and how a lot of people have misconceptions on what it is, people with it can be unfocused but also hyperfocused to an intense degree. I'm not sure what DID is.

The thing is I'm not 100% sure ABR is scum. I think that several people, not all of whom could be scum, seemed to think it (VF's claims( was mechanically impossible. Therefore, there is an offchance that he is just extremely wicked town. Once you calm down and think about it then it makes less sense for scum to play his play. Maybe third party? I would believe that probably over scum. Then his wagon seems to easy just like KC and VF's wagon. All the easy wagons give me pause.

I imagine if you were reading between the lines you could tell who the vig was perhaps or maybe it requires something else.

It makes no sense at all and is disruptive as well as keeping information from us (like 'results' of tracking that simply cannot be believed until a mod confirmation).

[FA_Q2]

Thank God.
VOTE: elusive

Policy lynch

What possible 'policy' does that fall under?

VOTE: NJ

At least the math and the ABR situation has resolved.

If I read that correctly, it means that ABR even lied about following math and that she visited someone night 1. Am I incorrect about that?

[FA_Q2]

Vote: NakedJogger

Does anyone want to lynch this guy?

Wow. Anything other erudite commentary you want to make?
NJ has spent two days being sociopathic at best.
Town has some self hatred issues it needs to work through.

Town,
Who are your top 2 scum reads today and why?
Who were you voting yesterday and why?

Ty.

Kiyz,it's possible that vig if there is one has three shots but wants to be sure and also its possible second non consec doc is doing okay and finally its possible mafia are targeting an night kill immune sk who can only be lynched.

NJ:

Oh so your definition of maniacal behavior is leaving voice recordings. I thought was assuming some sort of intelligence but guess not. Oh and hammering someone who could be scum is also much more maniacal than waiting for an overturn on what I know for a fact to be town. Right. Carry on dummy

Manic behavior is what you are doing right now and have been doing for days - BS one liners without any indication that you actually want to hunt scum. The last post that had any real reasoning behind it past 'fuck it' was 25 pages ago. Then, when addressed, your only real answer is 'no you' or 'no I am not' playground antics. The question keeps coming up as to why no one is voting you when there are a lot of people reading you as scum. Well, good question.

VOTE: NakedJogger

Lack of content, a hammer without intent and no real scum hunting and outright refusal to explain why what you are doing is pro-town.

and all that is still valid. NJ is adding nothing. Further, his lynch has seemed particularly impossible considering the number of people that are scum reading him. The drama can account for that though. It does not account for a complete lack of presenting anything worth reading.

Then Dragon. We are getting very little from dragon in general and even the case that he does generate is tenuous at the very best. This 'gloating' theory is not well thought out and is presented horribly.

I don't buy a TSO scum currently. His ISO does not really read as scummy and I don't think that his change over ABR is all that unusual - there is only so much bull shit that you can take before you get tired of it and give them rope.

I also do not see Wake's replacement as scummy. It is wrong but I understand the feeling - I think we are all felling that way considering that a town player actively tried to force a loss on town. That does not excuse a townie for replacing but I understand it. A scum on the other hand would be absolutely giddy - they are being handed the game. Why would scum ask for a replacement?

[FA_Q2]

If I read that correctly, it means that ABR even lied about following math and that she visited someone night 1. Am I incorrect about that?

You know what stinks? We don't even know who he followed for real both nights....................

He could have had the common decency of telling us before self voting.

I am really getting angry about our situation here.

[FA_Q2]

good morning still seems like gloating scum who just so happens to vote for me when I was calling him on his scumminess yesterday.

If you read us in ISO I think you'll find that I called you Scum first.

But ok.

@Kitz: In a bit, maybe.

Wake's replace is weird.

Understandable if it is absolutely wrong. It does not sound scummy though - why would scum want out of a game they were being handed?

Wake is leaning scum for me atm because of earlier shenanigans (that hammer he did was VERY questionable) but his replacement does not lead credence to him being scum.

[FA_Q2]

Yes, IKA was clear in the opening post - VC was reset.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: Nobody Special

"I am trying to pin down a motivation towards asking for a votecount."

Could you fake scumhunt any worse, NS?

Everyone should really be commenting on this.

Why?

There really isn't much to comment on. So the post itself was rather asinine - does that make it a scum post. No, it does not.

[FA_Q2]

Only other case I can get behind right now is the pre-replace-out case on Wake.
With ABR/NakedJogger/Math all having flipped town, I think that quickhammer he did may have just been an attempt to capitalize on the stupid shit that was happening.
I'm still trying to decide how I feel about his replace out in general, because I can see the angle of him being town that just doesn't want to have to give a shit anymore, but it did kind of feel like he was being a bit too intentionally loud about that detail.

makes a lot of sense as a pisskop partner.

Can you pull up specific examples of where you see this?

Scum probably doesn't replace out in such a trainwreck of a game.

It's the only thing stopping me from pursuing that wagon.

I was on the same train of thought but the case SW has put forth makes sense. Wake is the type of player that would replace out if he thought it would help his team take the win.

Not one thing wake did while he was still in the game was town and it does seem rather asinine to make new assumptions about a scummy slot simply because of a replace. If Marquis was doing things for town that would be different but not much so far.

VOTE: Marquis

Also pretty iffy on dragon. He has nothing other than this asinine gloating case. That entire line of reasoning is lacking actual content.

[FA_Q2]

Marquis is correct. FA's #3784 and #3938 don't jive.

What warranted the change?

Nothing changed. The replace is NOT scummy. That was what I was stating - it is wrong to state the slot was scummy because of the replacement.


Wakes actions, OTOH, were very scummy and I had stated as such earlier. I was hesitant because of the swap to lynch that slot though. SW made a valid point though - I should not be holding back because of the swap particularly wake who I could see actually doing something like that. It seems strange that a scum would swap out of a game they were doing so well in but it is really hard to ignore that hammer when it is starkly out of character for wake in general.

[FA_Q2]

Nevermind, he answered it and I'm just ignoring stuff.

lol. Answered before I continued reading

[FA_Q2]

That case is pretty good.

I think we would have eventually settled on FA_Q2 today at some stage, fwiw.

The case is built around a few mentions from pk and that is it. He defende4d others like NJ harder and yet he was town as well. He never eve defended me - just some glancing mentions.


Whatever - lynch me then - I am VT and town is going to lose this game anyway. Continue to let scum select your lynches for you and see where that leads.

[FA_Q2]

Actually, I think scum would want to fake claim something at this point and not VT.

Though it hurts my case I would say that is not the case.

To many PR have died - it is doubtful that there are many PR roles left if any. I have a rough idea what PR roles we have remaining and quite frnakly a PR claim would secure a scum read for me as there are virtually none left.

[FA_Q2]

then i have a wagon to analyze and another nightkill to do so with as well

either way i think there's a really good chance of fa_q2 flipping scum that trumps any of my second thoughts and it's the best choice we have

There is zero chance of me flipping scum - period. My wagon generated really fast and very easily - want scum look there. There is literally zero resistance to it. I find wakes actions scummy as I already said. I have given other reads as well - look them up I am not going to reiterate them.

Get this shit over with and hammer me already. I tire of towns abject idiocy this game.

[FA_Q2]

Holding the intent to hammer, just in case Kitz isn't really sure about it.

I'm waiting for FA_Q to get a chance to really speak. I really don't like the "Whatever, blegh" attitude he has those (like in posts 4000 and 4014), I also don't get the contradiction here either, where he defends Wake by saying (basically) "What scum would replace out of a winning game?" followed by "Yeah, I think Wake is scummy..." It just doesn't add up.

This sounds like fake sympathy to me.

My least-favorite FA_Q post is probably this one, where he puts ABR at L-1 because (I am paraphrasing his attitude at that point) "Fuck it! Town lost anyways, who gives a fuck, right?! Thbbrrrrrrttttttt".

All in all, I don't really like FA_Q's posts because they're either null or grossly apathetic to the town situation.

Your 'least favorite' post is an abject lie. I didn't put him at L1 because of 'fuck it.' I put him there because he was single highhandedly destroying the game. IF ABR survived then he would have done absolutely nothing at all but distract the ENTIRE town from scum hunting and eliminating any and all ability to move forward. I gave my reasons and here you are taking shit out of context and lying about it.

You all are looking for scum ^ here is more of it.

[FA_Q2]

Wait until tomorrow Ozgin because he's on late and won't get a chance to speak until later. I can do it as well so no hurry.

Well of course, but I want FA_Q to really understand the consequences he's facing, and if he responds with the same level of apathy that he seems to be playing with, I will bring it down on him.

i have no more feelings until i get another flip which will hopefully be my faq2 flip which will in turn hopefully be a scumflip that supertownifies me.

And what if you're wrong (and so are the rest of us who think of FA_Q negatively)?

Then stop threatening it and do it already.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: unvote

FA_Q2, your ISO is interesting. I agree about some things. Still hate the ABR hammer but I do wonder why a scum Wake would replace when it's an easy win situation.

You've got time, so be useful to town.

I agree with the replacement issue just like you but I am trying not to let that cloud the actual ACTIONS taken by the slot itself.

[FA_Q2]

Catching up

And yet no posts after this....

[FA_Q2]

Can someone talk to me about Cheetory? Because I've reached before when I've tunnelled as town, but my fucking god his latest stuff is like leaping a chasm.

Really because you seem to agree with him.



Basically he seems to think I am scum and has thought so all game without cause or reason. As soon as wagon started up he immediatley jumped on without a comment. He didn't come up with reasons until later.


Bad town but sum play? Not so sure about that - scum don't necessarily want to tunnel on a single player like that.

[FA_Q2]

FA, still waiting on those reads/content/something at all.

I am waiting on this as well FA.

FA, still waiting on those reads/content/something at all.

Reads in a nutshell:
Kitz – town lean. Kitz is trying to lurk though and that is bothering me. Her reaoning for this is dumb IMHO – town does not need to lurk to get suspicion off them, that is a scum motivation. Not getting scum from other actions though.

Shinobi - null. I get nothing from shinobi at all.

Nobody special – not willing to lynch here for ‘reasons’

dragonspawn – been scum reading dragon for a while. Not liking the subdued way he is playing. One thing is for sure, dragon has NOT added anything that resembles scum hunting for a very long time. The one case that I can remember is against GM as ‘gloating.’

SilverWolf – town

elusive – hard town

Flubber – already laid case out and it is only getting worse. Looks very scummy.

Aeronaut – leaning scum in general because areo has been posting mostly fluff and avoiding any real scum hunting. At times I forget that he is even in the game.

Ozgin – Town lean/null. Hard to read because his posts seem quite controlled.

T S O
Cheetory6
I don’t like the latest interaction here as it is eclipsing the game. TSO is mostly null and I have has a slight scum lean on cheeto for a while because of his tunneling. The problem I have with TSO is that he seems overly defensive and all over cheeto who is leading the charge against him. There has been almost no one jumping on that wagon all game so I don’t see the reason to have such a strong reaction. Further, the forming a wagon on TSO has seemed particularly difficult considering how hard cheeto has pushed him a few times. The last few pages really does read as a frustrated townie though for both of them.


Wakeslot is my strongest scum read atm which is why my vote is there. I don’t know what way I would lean on the latest either/or situation with TSO and cheeto.


Good Morning – Scum.
Lots of posts without content:

Spoiler: quote fix

I thought the only point of not hammering was so that everyone could post reads?

If we're just going to shit up the thread then I'm going to

Vote: ABR

I don't understand anything.

Someone should do something sheepable.

Vote: dragon

til then.

You may notice the word I use there is "weird."

I'm starting to think SilverWolf is Town? I don't know, this game doesn't make sense anymore.

elusive could be Scum. I don't know anything.

I only did it for the applause

or something

I couldn't think of any appropriately flippant song lyrics, so...

I could get on this FAQ wagon.
I am OK with it.

Vote: FAQ

That's somewhere between L-2 and L-4, I can't count.

I could actually join a wagon on Shinobi.

Or TSO for that last post.

Basically, GM’s recent posts include “lets jump on that wagon” or “I am willing to lynch X” without anything that I can identify as actual content. Almost completely vapid. Does not take any real stance on flubber – stating that the replacement is weird if scum because of the problems town is having. An argument already explored by many. Then starts going down the opposite road stating “It really sucks when Town does it for you, is my point.” Lots of whishy washy sentiments.

If I were to select the lynchee at this point it would either be Flubber or GM.

@ika – please update OP – flub and GM’s replacements are not entered on the player list.

[FA_Q2]

LOL. I have no idea how I placed him there. That was supposed to be Marquis.

[FA_Q2]

Kitz – town lean. Kitz is trying to lurk though and that is bothering me. Her reaoning for this is dumb IMHO – town does not need to lurk to get suspicion off them, that is a scum motivation. Not getting scum from other actions though.

I never said I'm lurking to avoid suspicion. Selective reading is bad.

That is not selective reading - that is exactly how this post reads:

What is your take on Aeronaut\TSO?

I do not have a proper read on them. At this point it's just biased gut feeling because of how the game went.

Also, now that you're back.

I'm lurking.

And on an unrelated note, I'm kinda unmotivated and meh-ish. Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera.

lurking and then you quote yourself where you are unmotivated because "Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera." Basically sounds to me like you don't like the fact that town was scum reading and attacking you so you decided to lurk to throw it off. Can you explain it another way?

[FA_Q2]

Simply because I hunt differently than you doesn't mean I'm not hunting.

where has aero been lately though?

Hunting differently is fine. I don't see hunting in general.

[FA_Q2]

lurking and then you quote yourself where you are unmotivated because "Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera." Basically sounds to me like you don't like the fact that town was scum reading and attacking you so you decided to lurk to throw it off.

Can you explain it another way?

How about "This game is so fucked up and stupid that the past isn't really worth reading anymore so I'm just gonna depress into the Now and see what happens"?
I really don't know how to explain. I can be rather literal and I have my own use of words. I did say I'm unmotivated, so unless something Actually of interest pops up that doesn't mimmic the freaking spectacles before...

And I said nothing about scum attacking me at all. That's not what I said.
Someone gamethrew, another somewhat under a gambit, another was just so scummy in general without even an attempt to fix it, that the general town just attacked itself. Not me specifically. Every PR is dead lewl.
On top of that we got the enemy factions.
Gee. All we got is interactions, and I'm just white noise after seeing how the previous prods went.

I can understand this. Most of town felt the same way at some point in this game.

[FA_Q2]

Thanks ika.

I didn't know where I had screwed up and now I do

[FA_Q2]

ABR syndrome - I LOVE it. ROFLMAO

[FA_Q2]

I'm getting bored with people scumreading me for not doing anything.

Hello, I'm gm, and I'm usually lazy. Nice to meet all of you.

Is this supposed to be a defense?

I don't care if you are lazy and you certainly posted more coherently earlier. If you do not want to be scum read give something to town.

[FA_Q2]

some of us are old and jaded

don't take it personally

Get off my lawn.

Whippersnapper.

The prod doges without substance is getting old very fast. We have enough apathy without this bullshit.

[FA_Q2]

FA, still waiting on those reads/content/something at all.

I am waiting on this as well FA.

FA, still waiting on those reads/content/something at all.

Reads in a nutshell:
Kitz – town lean. Kitz is trying to lurk though and that is bothering me. Her reaoning for this is dumb IMHO – town does not need to lurk to get suspicion off them, that is a scum motivation. Not getting scum from other actions though.

You have her as a town read but then you sort of list off all the things she's done that's scummy... What has she done that's townie to you?

I listed off reasons that my town read is not strong. Ingeneral, I get a town feel about kits - I just do not like some of the more recent trends that slot is doing. It makes me question my town read.

dragonspawn – been scum reading dragon for a while. Not liking the subdued way he is playing. One thing is for sure, dragon has NOT added anything that resembles scum hunting for a very long time. The one case that I can remember is against GM as ‘gloating.’

I agree with this posting. I don't get the resistance.

Flubber – already laid case out and it is only getting worse. Looks very scummy.

Flubber = Marquis, right?

Yes, swapped names from another game.

Aeronaut – leaning scum in general because areo has been posting mostly fluff and avoiding any real scum hunting. At times I forget that he is even in the game.

I'll admit I've been a bit absent the last few days, so I guess there's that. Can you link what you believe to be "fluff posting"? I feel like you never felt the need to bring this up in the past, so it's interesting to me.

Your last several posts before this one. You were not so fluffy earlier in the game which is one reason that I had not scum read you until this point. I find that is a general scummy behavior though - get people to think you are townish and then lay low until that play wears thin. It happens a lot I believe because scum feels secure and then does not post as often. I may have limited experience but players that do not lurk and then suddenly lurk in a cycle tend to make me suspicious.

Ozgin – Town lean/null. Hard to read because his posts seem quite controlled.

I wouldn't say they're that controlled at all, tbh, or at least not lately.

Really.

The general tone I get from Oz is devoid of emotion - controlled. Maybe it is that comforting avatar

[FA_Q2]

I listed off reasons that my town read is not strong. Ingeneral, I get a town feel about kits - I just do not like some of the more recent trends that slot is doing. It makes me question my town read.

Is there anything specific or is it just her tone? I was townreading her for awhile, but there's a few things I've been wondering about.

Aeronaut – leaning scum in general because areo has been posting mostly fluff and avoiding any real scum hunting. At times I forget that he is even in the game.

I'll admit I've been a bit absent the last few days, so I guess there's that. Can you link what you believe to be "fluff posting"? I feel like you never felt the need to bring this up in the past, so it's interesting to me.

Your last several posts before this one. You were not so fluffy earlier in the game which is one reason that I had not scum read you until this point. I find that is a general scummy behavior though - get people to think you are townish and then lay low until that play wears thin. It happens a lot I believe because scum feels secure and then does not post as often. I may have limited experience but players that do not lurk and then suddenly lurk in a cycle tend to make me suspicious.

That's fair. If it makes you feel better, my absence was universal. Define lurking in a cycle?

active players start to town read. Lurk. Someone starts building a case then back to active again.

[FA_Q2]

meh - setup speculation.

We don't know what there is just that there is the possibility of 3 kills per night but that at least one of those is X-shot or non-consecutive. I would go with the x-shot tbh but really it does not matter because there is no way to confirm anything at this time and that type of conjecture is really not going to help.

[FA_Q2]

@wolf
With that in mind, Oz dissertation on this is starting to really remind me of our first game with titus(I think it was her) and all those pretty charts he posted for us on the vote totals. All those charts that gave her a confirmed town all the way up until she won with her scum team...

[FA_Q2]

Well, I'm not going to share it because if I'm right there's a very good reason not to share it and if I'm wrong it'll make me look stupid, which is not conducive to the ego I'm trying to build up here.

IOW, more useless shit.

You are worthless math and you do need t be lynched but ABR comes first here:

VOTE: ABR

THIS PLACES HIM AT L-1

Town is fucked this game with all the crap play and constantly getting our PR's killed. Math and ABR have essentially destroyed any chance that we have to actually scum hunt.

This is him absolving himself of responsibility for the ABR lynch, and makes me feel he knew ABR was going to flip town.

This post is really bad.

It was not bad - it was fact. ABR, if he still persisted in this game, would be bringing it down and suspicion would have never left him. Nothing that he claimed at any time would have been trustworthy. Hell, he hammered himself and never revealed his actual PR results (a violation of the general rule of thumb that you must play to your win condition) and you are claiming that me calling his ass out for the damage it did is bad. There was ZERO scum hunting going on with math/ABR taking over the entire conversation. He needed to go, period.

Whatever TSO.