New York 180 (Endgame)

[pisskop]

vote: T S O

Still mad about 1473 bro.

[pisskop]

Isn't that what RVS is supposed to be for?

[pisskop]

@Silverwolf: What's fake about it?

I've never played with TSO before but his reads just did not seem genuine. I mean he gave a town read to vikingfan and Jared over nothing posts, and then with Shinobi it was bad when he called for everyone to pile on but then it was super towny when Shinobi was talking about how tough TSO was to read and why he was applying pressure and then he goes on to defend Shinobi against one of dragonspawn's comments which just looked like buddying to me. Then called me bad for not calling for a prod with my vote but Aero sheeped me and that was town which was just inconsistent and not genuine at all.

I don't know. TSO has always seemed kind of ambiguous to me. I would argue I see him best when he actively engages another; because its likely bussing!

This seems like he isn't interested in looking around; or hasn't even attempted to. Meh. I don't see it as terribly scummy, just kind of like disinterest.

- - -

get deathtunneled son

Soo, referencing the last game we played a year ago is a

bad

thing? I'm kind of sad; I thought I was good for spotting scum 200 posts in . . .

[pisskop]

No kidding people here us USMB . . .

[pisskop]

Ok. Let's generate discussion

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

I am quite paranoid, and my scumhunting is not as directed as a result
I am more interested and focused on creating wifom/drama than getting people lynched.

---

Vote: pisskop

What made you vote pisskop here?

Pisskop looks like the kinda guy who might buckle under pressure. Maybe? I dunno.

Yo. I suspect this is why.

He appears scummy.

So because I was on the TSO wagon I'm scummy? I thought it was a random vote like most the others thus far.

---

Are you saying SW has forced tone, or we do?

Idk, her tone feels genuine for now, to me, as well as similar to town games I've played with her.

I'm saying that her tone feels forced to me. That it seems to me like she's trying really hard to seem proactive in a way that I feel isn't real.

@Silver

, will lurk game you linked when I have some spare time tonight. Been putting off homework to be here. q.q

Do you still feel that Silverwolf is forcing her tone? If not, where did it stop?

Normally I stick to micros.

Indeed, although I tend to play with 9-13 players in games. The game feels much less involved with more players.

I tend to think Boonskiies is scummy in general, so I'll get back to you on that. Gun to head, null.

??? What did Boonskiies do in this game that was generally scummy?

Btw at this point I'm getting a scum vibe from shinobi and Viking

I get Shinobi, but why is Vikingfan getting scumread?

Everyone not voting should vote.

Agree'd or tell us who you'd like to vote for.

Why would they tell us who they would like to instead of actually voting?

[pisskop]

unvote

[pisskop]

What? I'm suggesting that ABR saw that line and decided to place a vote. From what I've seen of ABR, it seems to fit his general playstyle.
Why do you think I answering anything for Wake?

Why the naked unvote of T S O?

Because he isn't a scumread, and it isn't RVS any longer. It was overdue by page 13.

[pisskop]

Why would you just unvote instead of voting for your top scumread after just asking me that question about voting?

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town, and see Shinobi as kinda scummy atm.
I didn't vote for anyone else yet because I'm asking questions, and I'm not sure they need pressure yet. I want to see the reactions to my questions before I vote.

Because I have the attention span of a gnat.

I've noticed. :\

Why do you feel the need to answer for ABR?

I was sharing what information I had. You asked ABR the same question as Acryon, in 300.
. Did you not find ABR's answer sufficient?

Acryon

What did you think about ABR's answer?

[pisskop]

Who's got the short attention span, now?

Do you expect a real answer from him, or are you just asking questions?

@House
How Indeed.

I'm not sure what this means. When you feel like not being cryptic I'd like to be let in on it. And apparently so do a few other people.

[pisskop]

So you do expect answers from him . . .

I find ABR stonefaced in any alignment, and I didn't think people thought they could sort him this early. I'll be looking forward to you pursuing your interest in the future.

[pisskop]

Boonskiies is just one of those people who tends to be scummy town. In every game I've played with him (where we were both town), I wanted him dead. I'm trying to work on that.

Reading back upon you, I see you answered my question.

Sorry if I'm being a bit lazy this game.
yes I bandwagoned TSO.
I really do need to do some more reading.

Hi are you reading? Or an alt?

What're you even trying to say here?

The coding seemed flashy; over the top even. I'm glad to see it got dropped after a couple posts.

---

I get Shinobi, but why is Vikingfan getting scumread?

Hi Dragon. Did you miss this the first time?

As he is one of my gut scum reads at the moment in going to jump on and see if more pressure will shake something free from him.

You're voting for pressure . . . while telling him it's pressure?

vote: dragonspawn

[pisskop]

the

So it's scummy for a pressure vote on a suspected scum now? Because I said it was for pressure?

You must be really pushing to vote for the people who were on the tso wagon then.

I already told you Viking was a gut call. There are plenty of reasons to vote for him at this point. My reason is trusting my instincts

I didn't say you can't pressure vote. Why are you telling your pressure vote that you're pressuring them?
. And I was voting TSO until just recently. Why do you think I was voting those we were on the TSO wagon?

This is a terrible reason for a vote.

FoS: pisskop

Boons and Aero's votes were fine.

What was bad about my reason for voting dragon?

[pisskop]

What is scummy about placing a pressure vote and saying it's for pressure? Maybe if you explained that, I'd understand it better.

Its hard to apply pressure if you state your explicit reason for voting is pressure. There was no questions or reasons for his vote other than 'pressure'.

Dragon also ignored or missed my question, and only began to flesh out his reason after being pressured to by Boons. His reaction to Boon's shift was marked, and as stated above he was saying he said he had plenty of reasons but was still calling it gut. It doesn't seem to add up.

[pisskop]

VOTE: vikingfan

You have a lot of naked votes. What was this one for?

especially the buddying with SilverWolf extremely interesting and have noted it for future reference in future days

What do you mean? In this same quote you mentioned listing scumreads, but don't go into detail about Silverwolf or TSO. Are you scumreading TSO?

VOTE: acryon

I think I'm just going to switch. I haven't forgotten about TSO but his filter is better than acryon's.

>Agrees with boon on dragonspawn.
>Scumread on dragonspawn disappears based on nothing.
>Summarizes useless information for no reason.

I am happy with my vote.

Oh. I was going to ask what made you vote Acryon. I can see that.

I'm one of the notorious USMB Liberals. I never miss an election. I simply brain farted and forgot to vote for Viking.

Your liberal tendencies aside :b, what is your opinion of House?

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

I don't understand. Viking is the lynchbait. What would lynching the one who is more likely town tell us? House said the same thing, in 464.

---

Dragonspawn

I'm starting to think you are prob town but I'm not totally sure.

Why? I've been trying to read House all game and I can't still.

How is this answer coming?

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

What do you think of Boon? What about me, or everyone else on your wagon?

[pisskop]

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

I don't understand. Viking is the lynchbait. What would lynching the one who is more likely town tell us? House said the same thing, in 464.

I never said vikingfan was lynchbait or more likely to be town. I've been arguing vikingfan is scum for several posts now. Plus, he's an informative lynch due to the counterwagon on dragon.

FA_Q2 has a point
I am taking the stance that Viking is the bait, and House and you thought Dragon was 'just being Dragon'.

If you believed he didnt know what RVS was what makes you think he even gets what a scumslip is? I'll grant that his post where he voted Dragon was bad, but Im not convinced wasnt overconfidence

[pisskop]

I may note be able to respond regularly or in-depth within the next day or two, what with the holiday and the snowstorm tonight.

[pisskop]

Elusive

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

Viking's play has consistently been direct and has more of an outgoing newbtown than scum feel. He says things with confidence, and sometimes it feels like overreaching, but they always seem to show a clear thought process.
. For example, his 88 is similar to how I felt in response to Wake's 54. It's true I didn't like his 416, with how he doesn't explain his 'interesting' feelings towards Silverwolf or Grib, but I couldn't find any scum thinking 422 was adequate on its own. And in 497 he claims he isn't lynchbait, which is more newbtown overestimation. I would imagine any scum would try to play up their potential shelter.

Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?

I think more townie players replace out due to disinterest or being disgusted by a player.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I'm not sure it was a scumslip as much as poor or improper word use.

---

Dragon

This is scum trying to get pressure off of himself by going totally passive to everything. LYNCH IT!

I saw the question. Didn't want you to think I'm ignoring it. I'm not sure what to think of quite a number of you guys so far. This is my first game with most of you and it usually takes some time to get descent reads on people.

You seem more genuine in your responses.
. Do you think you tend to withhold your vote in general? How do you typically scumhunt?

of course I piss people off.

Why do you deliberately play this way then? Does it get you results?

---

House

dragon, please don't humor FA's poor push. It's not even worth it.

What is this? Do you not read or not care? She clearly states her opinion here:

That assumes that viking is more likely town then Dragon. I don't think that is the case and I don't see anything from silver that would indicate that she thinks so either unless I missed something.

Playstyles such as mine, ABR's, and dragonspawn's, to name a few, raise flags when people use such a convenient excuse to votepark them instead of actively scumhunt and pressure suspects.

Looking over your meta, I really dislike your playstyle in general. You seem to purposely want to piss people off, and then call them scum for it. Others have noted your willingness to call either scum; and you seem to have lost interest in ABR.

[pisskop]

Ill post from a computer tomorrow

unvote

[pisskop]

Dragon

Wolf because of meta. House a combo of meta and other reason.

-Please explain what scumWolf plays like.
-Also explain your House read as best you can.
-What did the Viking wagon tell you?

Day 1 I usually do put more stock in meta. Otherwise we usually have nothing to discuss.

I don't agree with this. Reaction testing, pressure voting, and examining the motivations behind posts work as well or better than meta. Meta is only one way to scumhunt.

---

You must be really pushing to vote for the people who were on the tso wagon then.

considering you guys made it clear you were voting for tso to pressure him until he stopped lurking.

why would the scum bother trying to counter a tso wagon if he was scum? Every indication was that the tso wagon was meant to put pressure on him to respond. He responded and the wagon everyone's attention was elsewhere before the wagons took off.

What is your fixation with TSO's wagon? You sure mention it a lot.

[pisskop]

I'm catching up on the past 2 days. I'm almost up to date, but I'm in classes until later tonight.

Scum. I haven't really been noticing ABR, and his ISO is terribad. Naked votes, bad pushes, and posting just enough to avoid prodding.

Ahh. So how much experience do you have with ABR?

The deadline is in 4 days. I don't have time for this. I'm the town tracker. Let's lynch someone else.

Crips, sir. Was that really something you had to do? I have to question the legitimacy of an unforced claim.

[pisskop]

Good luck to all in the storms, stay safe!

Aye, thanks. Wasn't so bad until it came time to shovel out cars. :/

My fixation with the tso wagon was two fold. My suspicion of Shinobi and his aggressive towards tso off the bat and the fact that it was gaining traction quickly.
as for house, his posts have a town vibe.

So your interest with the TSO wagon was that you thought scum were on it because of how quickly it grew?
And can you specify this 'town vibe' from House?

Hey, Pisskop. You seem to be asking a lot of questions and not doing much with them. What's your view on recent events and the game state as of now?

I'm playing how I am used to playing on my site. D1 is resolved through the gathering of information instead of social cues. It can all be referred to later and it helps cut down on loose fluff.
I think ABR's claim is going to have to be confirmed later, but I think I believe viking's.
. Elusive is slightly scummy, and he is voting for my other scumread, House. I'm confused why Boon is not offering up content when people are starting to scumread him, and still flipflop on Dragon.
On the townier side, I think Acryon recent posts are good, NJ is hunting, and TSO has a town-mindset.

Yeah, when I have time I'll also be looking into Pisskop who've I've barely noticed just like I've barely noticed FA.
I really, really don't like not noticing people and those two are the biggest offenders. They need much, much closer scrutiny and this is just a note to myself to do that.

We've had several interactions, all of which resulted in you brushing me off and implying you need to 'investigate me later'. 264, 313, 320, 413, 511, and its followup 523.
. I was out of the game with limited computer access for the last few days, though.

Meh, I can't read Kitz.
If we get close to deadline and need a lynch I'll hammer.
VOTE: Aeronaut
Post 97 looks like a way of giving himself an excuse to be on mislynch wagons.

What makes you refer to a post 30 pages ago as your sole reason to vote? And why did it come right after the flashwagon on Kitz?

vote: Kitz

[pisskop]

Viking

Spoiler: viking

LOL, I'm going to enjoy mentioning this in the postgame.

So what is your take on House?
. You may have also forgotten my other questions:

What do you mean? In this same quote you mentioned listing scumreads, but don't go into detail about Silverwolf or TSO. Are you scumreading TSO?

The closest I've come to finding an answer for this is 593. And I can't find a read on TSO from you.

---

Elusive

Spoiler: Elusive

1. How can TSO know for sure that Jared or that post is town and not want to pressure him or anything? Unlike klingoncelt and others who stated that dragonspawn plays the way he does even though it seems scummy (and also link to his games and such), TSO doesn't offer any meta explanation or anything on why he provides a whole rationalization of Jared's actions. Jared's own explanation doesn't quite fit with TSO's - he basically states he is lazy, hasn't read, and bandwagoned. All of which are pointing to scummy to me by a lot.

Unless there is masons or a role that knows another, it seems like a lot of explanation\defensiveness for someone who has contributed very little. Jared pings me off and I can't tell what townie mindset TSO would have to hard defend someone so early in the game without any night actions or anything to corroborate such as tunneling.

This is pretty overreachy. Jared hasn't posted much at all, but I don't see what is to be gained by voting an inactive slot on D1 that has only said null things. If that slot or TSO flips scum, then we have an association ready to go; but I don't see a Jared lynch just for the inactivity that newbies bring.
. Do you consider a D1 vote on a flat lurker viable? Why?

Aeronaut, unless night actions or etc corroborate I generally don't 100% scum or town read anyone. Also, I've gotten two fellow townies killed once for things that I thought were obviously scummy and I'm still feeling cautious. So yeah, if that is going to trouble you then I suggest following through. I'm not a fan of empty threats.

Why are you threatening people now? I agree that Threats in mafia are kinda silly, but you are actively making the situation worse by reciprocating instead of determining the motivation behind them. Its a pretty bad thing for town cohesion, to be so agonistic.

We should also take a look at the people who were trying to steamroll Viking's lynch.

And who do you suggest?

My reasons for voting House (some of which were already stated in my posts btw)
1. He's whiplashed with the "this is townie" then "this is scum" way too much - it makes it seem like he could jump out and go either way with those kinds of back and forth
2. Seems super aggressive but when I look back I can't figure out how his aggressiveness is moving the game forward and also was trying to steamroll the viking lynch
3. Skimming the other game (the one you linked to) he was scum and it seems like he's doing the same things here

1) is your issue with the consistency of it, the act of rating so many posts, or something else?
2) Provide an example of what you mean wrt 'not moving the game forward'. I certainly see the steamrolling, however.
3) You read through his meta? What did his non-scum games reveal? How many games did you read?

---

Kitz

Spoiler: Kitz

I see too much use of Meta. Just because someone acts towny, doesn't mean they can be. People can adjust and blend in with Meta that others have made.
Soooo I'd like to argue that some are more scummy, not more towny, because Meta fits in too quickly and on a first day.

Is the use of meta a good or bad thing?
. Why can people be more scummy because of D1 meta instead of town? I don't see how D1 meta can be only a scummy thing.

Other than this badplay sheep, the votes received seem rather.. random and forced.

I don't think most games I'm in use meta this much. I think it has something to do with the large block of players who come from a separate site.
. What are your town/scum reads?

I'm just going to voice my opinion loudly. Albert B. Rampage is kinda scummy. Read the ISO

Why haven't you considered his playstyle from prior games? Or what other players say about his meta?

I'm a bad player to ask when it comes to meta, because I have nooooo idea about any player's meta.

How do you scumhunt D1?

[pisskop]

I never brushed you off. I answered every one of your points. Don't misrep.

You did answer them. I guess I didn't realize I qualified as a lurker. :\

I pulled that comment from my notes. I've been reading Aero as scum for a while, but that particular post stands out to me.

If I'm a scumread of yours, why aren't you voting me instead of the latest wagon that cropped up out of nowhere?

I'm voting Kitz because I'm unsure if Elusive's on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm.

I think ABR's claim is going to have to be confirmed later, but I think I believe viking's.

Why in the world do you have doubt about ABR's claim?

He didn't have nearly enough votes on him for it to be scum pressured into a fakeclaim.

You're right. But he could do it as a measured action to move the wagon along. He clearly knew it would end the discussion about his play.
Is it normal for people to claim outside of RVS, under pressure, or in order to CC/reveal?

It also creates WIFOM for the NK, as scum now have to decide which PR to go after and hope they hit the one that's not being protected.

If we have a n1 NK, it's thanks to ABR's claim. Remember that.

Okay. I can see that. I still aim to see it confirmed; otherwise future scum could try this.

[pisskop]

Enjoyed this site while it lasted, but an overzealous mod combo'd with ambiguous rules and unequal application has soured it for me.

@Mod: Replace me please.

We're sad to see you go.

Should we lynch their slots?

Why would we lynch either? Im townreading Acryon and Jared has zero content and I think should only be a last resort today.

[pisskop]

Pisskop seems like a nice girl, I will answer her questions when I'm at a computer. I don't know if kitz is scum or town but she has a nice avatar. Kitz what do you think?

Yes, I'm sorry I called you a he. I meant no insult.

TIA

Thank ya.

---

Klingon

Isn't it a bit much for a -game noob to jump into a Large? She knows no one, she doesn't even know all the roles.

That is, assuming that she's both Town and not an alt.

If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?

It all smells a bit fishy to me.

Should we lynch their slots?

. What are you saying here? You want to lynch her because she's 'too new'?
. What would any of their flips tell us?
. Does your play usually look as barren and one-linered as this game?

---

Spoiler: Elusive

Yes, I do consider a D1 vote and lynch of a flat lurker viable. Are scums possibly lurkers? Yes. Can a person who's being a lurker whether on purpose or if not on purpose (Wouldn't they tell the mod to v\la) that means that they are afraid to talk so that people can't read through their lies. Lynch Active Lurkers and Replace Lurkers ASAP is a theory of mine.

What do you learn from a lurker's lynch; except their alignment? Who in this thread is actively lurking? I find little motivation to go after the low fruit instead of the scummiest player. Especially in D1 of a large game.

How am I threatening in this post? I threatened in the other post that if you cross lines of civility with me, I go off the rails real quick. In this I was stating if he finds it scummy he should put a vote where his mouth is.

Okay, why do you feel the need to get defensive and antagonize people?

We should also take a look at the people who were trying to steamroll Viking's lynch.

And who do you suggest?

Umm...House? That's why I voted House? There's others who kept saying "vote vikingfan" but he stood out to me most.

So when you said, "We should also take a look at the people who were trying to steamroll Viking's lynch" you meant pressure just House.

1) is your issue with the consistency of it, the act of rating so many posts, or something else?
2) Provide an example of what you mean wrt 'not moving the game forward'. I certainly see the steamrolling, however.
3) You read through his meta? What did his non-scum games reveal? How many games did you read?

---

2)
I didn't read through his entire meta, that's probably Herculean. I skimmed through his scum game that was linked as an example of large normal by silverwolf (mostly skimmed the ending where players commentated) and also based on another game of his briefly. So only two.

Thanks for answering one question, how about my other two?
2) do you think that constitutes an accurate meta?

Oh and if you're keeping options open then you shouldn't pretend to be all actively doing stuff, that's not keeping options open that's seeming like you're all busy when you're not.

I've asked you to clarify why House is scummy; to be specific about your own scumread. You are continuing to be vague. I think you are faking outrage towards him.

FA, your tone is so arrogant, are you scum and prepping me for a nk?

My lean towns so far were: Wake (who I would maybe sheep if he were not V\LA), SilverWolf (already stated in thread), acryon, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Rampage (idk maybe), Celt,

Where do you get this? What evidence do you have that FA is scum or 'prepping you for a Night Kill?
You were townreading her most the game. What happened?

---

I'd rather see people go after a strong player and see what happens or reactions from that. Therefore, my vote on House. Maybe I'll switch to Wake or one of the other Boss type Pokemon.

And yes if I had to choose, I would choose to lynch a lurker most times because from my brief experience they become a thorn in the side. Also usually newb scum heavy lurks.

So are you scumreading Wake as well? When did you start?
So in 661 you list Wake as town and sheepable (despite him not having a single vote), and here he's as scummy as House? I'm done watching you faph about.

Vote: Elusive

[pisskop]

Please guys stop claiming without pressure

[pisskop]

Was there anything Towny about either?

Do you think the lurkers/inactive slots of this game are scummier than all of the active slots?
Who do you want to lynch?

Your game is off, House. You're nitpicky and boring.

Ohh? Do you know House's play?

Dood. I thinks you haz scumz.
VOTE: House

So its not just me.

Maybe it's just that I'm used to everyone's psycho playstyle at USMB. I'm reading the game going on over there, it's full of rage and aggro. I'm surprised no one's had a heart attack yet.

I may have to see how that site is like. I've heard of it via one of my other forums, but never went.

---

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

You're being awfully oversensitive. That's like a love tap, even for a casual game of mafia.
. Also quitting a game would hurt the players as much as any actual offenders. Reconsider.

[pisskop]

I am now part of this game.

Hi! You sound like you know your way around a large game.

pisskop, NakedJogger is being a really antagonistic brat. Do you have any concerns about this?

He's being a bit antagonistic. He seems to play like that. I don't approve, but he isn't threatening people or attacking people over their play.
. Do you think he's being predatory or opportunistic in his attacks?
. Did you notice my questions?

If you have any questions please let me know especially if acryon missed anything they were supposed to address.

Hi! Must be interesting to be a twin.
. Acryon played a closed-up game. How do you play?

Mm, I don't find the need to point out people using incorrect pronouns necessary.

Since I am guilty of this, I agree.
. Gender/Race/etc and their generalizations would make for a good discussion in the general questions subforum, though.

Intuition and deductive reasoning were both involved.

That doesn't really tell me anything.

mmm. This.

[pisskop]

I am hard to understand. Not sure what you mean by close either.

Okay, sounds fun. I mean that Acryon seems to be conservative with his questions and opinions. Kind of introverted or like an observer.

pisskop, you seem like you want people to think you're town, but are actually scum.

Okay. So as asked above, how so?

I'd be happy with a NakedJogger wagon.
VOTE: NakedJogger

. Your slot is essentially contentless.
What is your case on NJ?

Strictly speaking, off policy, lynching klingon has some positives:
<snip>
What am I missing here?

That sounds like a compromise lynch. I dont think compromise lynches are good for us unless we can learn from them.
. What do we learn from lynching Klingon? If she is town, who do we examine further? Or if she flips scum?

[pisskop]

OK.
It's Thursday.
Going to wade in now.

How did this turn out, Wake?

You ask questions. Ask for clarifications. Take small but boring positions. Light buddying - me & klingon on this page. No substance, but consistently doing things that

look

like substance.

So will you point out what you mean? I can understand you seeing my interactions with Klingon as buddying and me asking questions, but I'm not sure about trying to buddy you or 'looking like substance'. That's quite vague; it '

looks

' like substance.

I mean, I could vote for Pisscop, claiming that he's scum because once he moved his vote off TSO he jumped on every wagon that rolled by.

This is hardly accurate. My voting record is TSO, Dragon, kitz, and Elusive; you match my record for voting.
. This is a poor justification for a sudden scumread.
I completely agree with TSO's 1224. It looks like bargaining.

I agree, klingon is a compromise lynch. I"m just concerned that A, we won't get enough votes on someone else to get a lynch with some inactive slots and B, going after someone else will out more PRs. You are correct though that a klingon lynch won't tell us much. That said, I have this question, whose lynch would? I'm not coming up with anyone offhand.

At one point will will get fake claimers, if we haven't already. I think that Elusive, House, or kitz would tell us the most. People seem to either straight scumread or townread them.

---

Oh and I will quit trolling now. I was trying to see if NAkedJogger would take the bait and try to vote Kitz and it worked

I was voting Kitz all along

This is true. I'm not sure what he was doing there, but the same could be said for you, Math. You were not kidding about your playstyle.

---

Been trying to figure out maths self vote and the reaction. I've read the explanation of it and it still makes little sense to me.

I'm not sure it did much besides make Math seem more town.

[pisskop]

I am town so this is the 3rd time Kitz is voting town

idk. If this is scumKitz she's doing a decent job of playing up her newbiness.

Is anyone else starting to lean scum on Ellie?

Yes quite heavily.

She's rather null right now. When flips happen, I'll know more about her.

It would be really great if Wake and Klingon would vote FFS.

Oh well, back to ol' reliable, I guess.
VOTE: Aeronaut

House is voting, ftr.

So we are supposed to reject unmade mason claims and blindly accept an actual tracker claim?

Given the other softclaims in the thread, I'm inclined to believe they aren't masons. Too convenient of a claim anyway.

---

This game kinda degenerated into craziness today. Friday night fever? :v
. I'm not a big fan of either leading wagon. I have more consistent scumreads.

[pisskop]

I wish there was an extremely succinct outline of what's happened so far this game.

A lot of people replaced out, ABR claimed tracker, viking claimed cop, Klingon claimed VT, and a bunch of people I won't currently name softed things I don't think are true.
. NJ wagon is driven off of hurt feelings, and Klingon's isn't convincingr either. I think Elusive is scum, House is scummy, and would like a flip to determine a few more alignments. And determine who has lied.

C'mon Wake.
I heard so many things about your play, and you can't play. This is almost scummy, but I wonder if it isn't just avoiding the D1 fustercluck.

You should replace out then Wake if you can't play.

Maybe this is the best.

---

(Actually I do have him and TSO at leaning scum, along with FA_Q2 and the House slot.)

Can you lay down your reasons for all four of these slots?

[pisskop]

Well that's just bullshit. I literally just outlined why I was voting just like four posts ago >.>

@Silver, as of right now I like NJ vote because it feels like his push for Kitz was exaggerated. It seems to me like he was forcing tone a little bit with the way he went about that and I've just been getting weird vibes from him for a little bit.

NJ's push on kitz does seem persistent. Prior to mathblade's self-vote I townread him for posts like 360 and 662. Since then I find his play more stubborn, and I note Ellie's insistence on pushing him for . . . presumably whatever. I'd vote Ellie before NJ.
. Besides,

you've only just voted him

you aren't voting him

What about the case on her don't you like?

I've been townreading her most of the day, and although her thrashing and bargaining could be scum I think her shamelessly trying not to get lynched is desperate town. I also think she is townier than others she interacted with.

Like, I'm asking if it makes sense that Klingon might have been like "hell yeah House is scum" and then when he replaced out she was like "bummer,

This is how I feel. House-slot is going to have some explaining to do.

[pisskop]

I guess who I'd vote comes down to who will tell me the most with their flip.
. Klingon claimed VT, House softed neighbor with Klingon. Besides her reads, I'm not seeing any other benefit.
. NJ was a townread independent of his interactions and reads. His flip will only affect those pushing him.

Vote: Klingon

I'm not sure what connection you see between me and Ellie as there is no in-game connection

Really?

[pisskop]

VOTE: Ellie

I'm on neither of the main wagons anyways.

I don't see 11 votes on her . . .

[pisskop]

she's not a main wagon...I was on elusive beforehand, meaning I wasn't on NJ or Kling...

Aye. I just think her wagon is a better choice tomorrow.

If you had to choose between pisskop, Ellie, and vikingfan, which would you go for and why?

Ellie.
I don't know if I trust Ellie. I do believe viking's claim, though. I can't imagine a D1 cop claim not being outed.

Vikingfan -- Because I don't believe their cop claim
Pisskop -- because I am not sure aboutt heir claim.
ellie -- Because I trust their claim.

SO I would go after VF.

I claimed?

[pisskop]

pisskop, the people who say stuff like "tomorrow blah blah blah wagon" I think that they suffer from a heavy dose of procrastination. Get in my face now instead of waiting for night actions like all scum cowards and their underlings.

I understand that pro-action tends to trump reaction, and I'm not opposed to her wagon or Boon's vote in general. But this late in the day its going to attract a limited crowd, because everyone is now largely voting to lynch or sitting on older reads.
. I didn't have you figured as aggressive, but I could see you as very proactive and extroverted. I admit its not easy for me to always push

[pisskop]

Why? That is the least likely time that a CC is going to happen. That is the entire point of scum trying to claim ai really good PR after all - to get them to out themselves.

Hunh. I guess if they thought they could perform more townishly than the actual cop. And nobody tried to track them. Was that a part of the old site meta?

[pisskop]

I am confused at what you are trying to say here. It supports what I was getting at and I have no idea about the 'old' site. This is essentially my first game here

A cop claim on day one is unlikely to be CC for precisely those reasons - the fake cop can be caught without reveling the real cop at a later time. The fake claiming scum WANTS a counter claim (at least this early in the game) - then they can take out the cop before there are any confirmed townies/scum.

I think I'm overthinking it now . . .
. If its possible or likely the town can find out in other ways whether or not its a fake claim, and the cop themself knows it, then they could simply reveal when they felt comfortable. They could essentially use the fakeclaim as a free scumclaim, and start investigating suspects around the fakeclaimer.
. I guess I don't expect scum to try something that is eventually going to fail.

[pisskop]

This is where I disagree with you. If VF hadnt' have claimed cop they'd be lynched. Even if it fails it gains VF an additional day of life with no risk. So what if he's discovered? If it fails theres' literally no risk with the way MafiaScum's set up is of fake claiming cop.

That is why saying "so and so claimed cop" don't lynch them is bad. It's about analyzing all the pieces and seeing if you believe the claim. Until VF acts protown I won't believe it.

So because he was already in a ways, he didn't have anything to lose that wasn't already going.

[pisskop]

I think I like Ozgin for town.

How exactly?
. Did you read at all back on House?

[pisskop]

I don't believe in lynching for the sake of lynching especially day one. 9.9 times out of 10, day one lynches in my small experience have been of town. However, barring that the night kill should provide data as well so its not as if the lynch going through in itself would provide some spectacular game breaking insight.

As far as I can tell, NJ is playing like a frustrated townie. If my vote went anywhere it would be Ellie. I'm still scumreading you and Oz's slot.

I'm willing to give Viking a day to prove his himself. I think his reads are consistent with his mindset.

[pisskop]

Putting numbers of wagons? That's messy, not analysis. We don't even know what he read. You fail to trust 2 claims today, but you trust Ozgin because he is nice to Elusive?

Not having read nor had to experience the fatigue of this game and wanting to 'progress' it? Also not exactly displaying a town interest in the game.

[pisskop]

Ellie is scummeh

Putting numbers of wagons? That's messy, not analysis. We don't even know what he read. You fail to trust 2 claims today, but you trust Ozgin because he is nice to Elusive?

Not having read nor had to experience the fatigue of this game and wanting to 'progress' it? Also not exactly displaying a town interest in the game.

...is this talking to me?

Yes

[pisskop]

Okay, please quote the posts where I "failed to trust 2 claims", or said I "trusted Ozgin because he was nice to Elusive." (And yes, I think Ozgin's approach to getting into the game looks genuine.)

I apologize. That was not you.

[pisskop]

Cripes guys! Why did you hammer now NJ? Why no claiming intent or just waiting?

. I believe ika said he was going to be out until about deadline.


@Wake
. Im not sure Ive even gotten indepth opinions on those three. Dragon maybe, but thats stale now.
Why do you use groups of three?

[pisskop]

I want people to consider me as someone on the NJ wagon because it effectively makes me look way more suspicious

Why do you want that?

p-edit oh god look at that fake acting like he even said "cripes" oh holy lord jesus

Ive been pfp sincs I apologized for being wrong.
Next time you are welcome to commute through this flash freeze if youd like.

. Why are you hamming up your slot?

[pisskop]

I have a minor salt addiction.

Many drama was had. We all played a game. I look forward to actually living a night the next large I play.

[pisskop]

Nope. There's that thing on page 1 or 2

[pisskop]

I'd let it out, ftr. I cant keep it secret foreverz.

[pisskop]

If you really want, delete the post?

List mods got involved. Wasnt me.

[pisskop]

<3