New York 180 (Endgame)

[House]

VOTE: pisskop

For replacing into a scum slot.

[House]

Good morning town *rubs eyes sleepily*

vote dragon

for voting wake .

Let's nail this guy for buddying me.

Hi FA, Could you do me a favor and get an avatar? It makes it easier for me to tell who is who around here.

Wake-Why don't you want to vote? All the cool kids are doing it.

Why you wanna have me vote?

Why you wanna sell a lynch from the sidelines?

[House]

YO.

Keep piling votes on TSO until he actually starts playing the game.

Trying to control town's votes are we... SCUM!!!!

Vote: Shinobi

Reachy vote is reachy.

VOTE: FA_Q2

[House]

Good morning town *rubs eyes sleepily*

vote dragon

for voting wake .

Let's nail this guy for buddying me.

Yet, you don't vote for him. Why?

Because we got, what, 13 days? So, yeah, I'm not sure how paranoid you're feelin', but when I said "hey, let's nail this guy for buddying me," it means "hey, let's vote this guy off for buddying me in one post." Day's over folks. We've all made up our minds about vikingfan. Board up your house and say a prayer VF, 'cause we're coming for ya.

Well, no. I'm just stirring up reactions and discussion to see what happens. Little stuff here and there. Of course, I could just take a siesta and wait for something worthwhile to discuss pop up. Hrm, that sounds good right about now, considering I've been caring for brain-damaged people all day long. *Is bitching*

I don't really feel like voting for him right now, though I do wanna see a wagon on him form. Kinda like when you drop a plump goldfish into a piranha tank and sit back with a bag of candied almonds and scotch. I'm thinking you're smart and will lap up my heartfelt suggestion and see to it that VF meets his ultimate demise today. I mean, he really is a dastardly fellow who deserves all the scorn he gets from this point on. In fact, I might not even have to vote him, and let the rest of my Town minions do my work for me.

Wake-Why don't you want to vote? All the cool kids are doing it.

But I DO want to vote. Honestly I do, I do!

...but on

my

terms.

This reads purely like an attempt to elicit a reaction from me, so no thank you, not going there.

I can get on board with a TSO wagon since he's obviously lurking

unvote

VOTE: tso

And yet you reacted.

VOTE: viking[\v]

This post stinks of rationalization to OMGUS.

[House]

I just only draw town, always, all the time, so you should assume as such

VOTE: Aeronaut

This is a blatant Lynch all Liars PL vote and everybody should sheep me.

[House]

I think it's very possible T S O forgot this game existed, tbh. It's a very T S O thing to do

I forgot this game existed.

Are you trying to point out that you were coaching him?

[House]

I forgot this game existed. My men, I'll forgive you by personally digging the graves for the dead bodies of scum after I lead the charge in hanging them.

Let's get down to business.

and whose grave are you starting with?

Errr, SilverWolf? I haven't seen much yet leaping out as scum to me, but I think my wagon is mainly composed of town, albeit derptown.

Silverwolf is townier than you are by 50 yalms, brah.

[House]

It's rather spooky that Aeronaut and I used the exact same wording since I didn't actually read one post before making that

- Aero, stay out of my head.

Yes it is, isn't it?

[House]

I forgot this game existed. My men, I'll forgive you by personally digging the graves for the dead bodies of scum after I lead the charge in hanging them.

Let's get down to business.

and whose grave are you starting with?

Errr, SilverWolf? I haven't seen much yet leaping out as scum to me, but I think my wagon is mainly composed of town, albeit derptown.

Silverwolf is townier than you are by 50 yalms, brah.

Is this a "Silver is my friend/acquaintance therefore town" read, a "you said Silver's scum, so now I'm gonna call Silver town" read or an actual townread on Silver? If it's the first two, I don't really want to know. If it's the last, feel free to tell me why.

The first two don't hurt, but no... it's the third.

Anyone that is familiar with SilverWolf can tell when she's playing her town game. She's actively feeling players out, looking for input, and basically just being her usual townie self. Scum Wolfie is not nearly as inquisitive, she's more lurky & manipulative.

Yes, she's that easy to read. Check her meta if you don't believe me (I wouldn't believe me, either... so check her meta).

[House]

I forgot this game existed. My men, I'll forgive you by personally digging the graves for the dead bodies of scum after I lead the charge in hanging them.

Let's get down to business.

and whose grave are you starting with?

Errr, SilverWolf? I haven't seen much yet leaping out as scum to me, but I think my wagon is mainly composed of town, albeit derptown.

Silverwolf is townier than you are by 50 yalms, brah.

Is this a "Silver is my friend/acquaintance therefore town" read, a "you said Silver's scum, so now I'm gonna call Silver town" read or an actual townread on Silver? If it's the first two, I don't really want to know. If it's the last, feel free to tell me why.

The first two don't hurt, but no... it's the third.

Anyone that is familiar with SilverWolf can tell when she's playing her town game. She's actively feeling players out, looking for input, and basically just being her usual townie self. Scum Wolfie is not nearly as inquisitive, she's more lurky & manipulative.

Yes, she's that easy to read. Check her meta if you don't believe me (I wouldn't believe me, either... so check her meta).

I don't necessarily agree with this. Yes, scum SW is differentish, but now that we've all gone and talked about it for three pages, it's nullish.

Trying to say other people's actions affect a person's alignment sounds like scum.

VOTE: Aeronaut

[House]

Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.

FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?

Vote TSO

for being late to the party.

Wait, so you found it weird Grib had three votes, and proceeded to place my fourth vote?

Explain this to me.

Interesting.

[House]

You were already voting for me.

That's also not even close to what I said

Oh house

It was precisely what you said.

If SW had changed her posting style after the discussion, you'd probably have a point, but I was referring to her posting style before the discussion about her, so you're just being disingenuous.

[House]

Wake, Why not ask Grib straight out why he's townreading acryon or finds Boon suspicious?

^town

^Captain Obvious.

[House]

Everyone not voting should vote.

Speaking of voting, explain your vote on pisskop, please.

[House]

Everyone not voting should vote.

Speaking of voting, explain your vote on pisskop, please.

He appears scummy.

Okay. How does he appear scummy?

[House]

---

Vote: pisskop

What made you vote pisskop here?

Pisskop looks like the kinda guy who might buckle under pressure. Maybe? I dunno.

Yo. I suspect this is why.

Yo, why do you feel the need to answer for Wake?

[House]

[quote="In post 314, pisskop"][/quote]

Why the naked unvote of T S O?

[House]

What? I'm suggesting that ABR saw that line and decided to place a vote. From what I've seen of ABR, it seems to fit his general playstyle.
Why do you think I answering anything for Wake?

Because I have the attention span of a gnat.

Why do you feel the need to answer for ABR?

[House]

Why do you feel the need to answer for ABR?

I was sharing what information I had. You asked ABR the same question as Acryon, in 300.
. Did you not find ABR's answer sufficient?

Considering the followup question I posted, it's pretty obvious I didn't.

Who's got the short attention span, now?

[House]

Who's got the short attention span, now?

Do you expect a real answer from him, or are you just asking questions?

The only one "just asking questions" here is you.

I asked a question. He evaded, so I pushed again.

At which point he's still evading and earning my FoS. Not enough for a scumread on its own, but I'm leaning that way.

What's your problem with my interest in ABR?

[House]

It's interesting because I see what you're saying but you're also removing kind of an aspect of the game that remains as a record. I mean votes are also done for reactions.

However, since you aren't voting - what do you plan to do - just scum hunt until you're ready?

Fight the PEER PRESSURE TO DO STUFF.

It's kind of scary.

This is a towny post.

[House]

It's interesting because I see what you're saying but you're also removing kind of an aspect of the game that remains as a record. I mean votes are also done for reactions.

However, since you aren't voting - what do you plan to do - just scum hunt until you're ready?

Fight the PEER PRESSURE TO DO STUFF.

It's kind of scary.

This is a towny post.

Why is it towny?

It feels genuine. He's confused by Wake's stance and trying to understand it, not manipulating it.

[House]

I do have initial feelings regarding certain players, but you practically demand that I vote yet will undoubtedly scoff at the feelings behind the reasoning for said vote. You probably want me to vote in order to pick apart and attack it, which in itself is disingenuous, and further makes me want to choose my actions wisely, because I like to have solid reasoning behind each and every one of my actions in general. If I felt your intentions were honest, that you wanted to know who I'd vote for without also planning to attack it, I'd be more inclined to do so.

WTF is up with this? I don't even know what to say to this. You don't want anyone to question your vote? I wasn't planning on attacking you Wake.

TSO picked apart my vote on him twice and said he didn't like it. Cheetory didn't like the tone of some of my posts and said so. Do you see me freaking out and squeezing a stress ball in the corner? Well, if I was squeezing a stress ball you wouldn't see it but just visualize it Wake.

I'm not sure what this is all about. I want to say townie paranoia but I'm not wanting to townread this behavior or call it scummy. Maybe just null for now and keep an eye on it.

You have it completely wrong.

If I get into this game, it will create chaos. If I start to move things and stir the waters, things will happen. By nature I am a catalyst. Taking off these restraints and seeing to it that things happen in this game may cause some to not want to play with my style. It may sound self-aggrandizing to you, but it isn't, but the truth, and is both an immense strength and an immense weakness. I can be a very powerful player, but I can't really play if I turn some players off because of it.

There is no paranoia. There's only the restrained yet fearless desire to pierce through everything and everyone in order to pull out the truth. You stab at things to see how they bleed in Mafia. Some people don't like being aggressively interrogated. I'm not stressed at all. I don't want to seem to over-powering, because it's not fun having few to play with (we're not talking trolling or uncivil behavior: just being a strong-willed personality).

I can buy that, but the answer isn't to withdraw from the game. Otherwise, why play at all?

By turning into a passive participant, you're also depriving town of your abilities. When players are aware of your capabilities and not seeing it, that can come across as scum play.

[House]

holy cow, I leave for a day and 5 new pages explode. Will take a look and post after work tomorrow, I'm sure several more pages will be up by then.

Thank you, Cap'n Obvious.

I think I have my first solid scumread...

Explain why your read of vikingfan is solid, and please use more than that one post in your response.

[House]

I can accept that read.

Thank you.

[House]

House, this one is not a He. You may use She.

TSO, your explanation of his post is longer then his post and also unless you're bringing meta into it overly complicated.

I may.

Then again...

[House]

I lack the desire to decipher what that ^ means.

[House]

I suppose that's possible, I found more meaning in the content of his post than the subject of it.

[House]

You did it too here:

can buy that, but the answer isn't to withdraw from the game. Otherwise, why play at all?

By turning into a passive participant, you're also depriving town of your abilities. When players are aware of your capabilities and not seeing it, that can come across as scum play.

Is it possible you're scum?

Totally.

Possible you are, too.

What's your beef with my read?

[House]

You insinuate I have a beef with your read. I don't like that.

Is your dislike of my post indicative of my alignment?

[House]

You're an interesting character.

Push me more, this is fun.

[House]

You should be more careful

If you think I'm scum, this post is the height of irony.

After all, telling a person you believe could be scum to be careful would lead town to draw associatives between us if I actually

flipped

scum (hurray for you, no danger of that).

That said, i can't see scum fucking up like this because there is zero benefit in it for them if/when I flip.

[House]

Mhhh. I like your reaching argument. Why did you back off so quickly in favor of a satirical vote

Because I don't like liars, especially when I have firsthand knowledge that is contrary to the stated lie.

[House]

You should be more careful

If you think I'm scum, this post is the height of irony.

After all, telling a person you believe could be scum to be careful would lead town to draw associatives between us if I actually

flipped

scum (hurray for you, no danger of that).

That said, i can't see scum fucking up like this because there is zero benefit in it for them if/when I flip.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Mhhh. I like your reaching argument. Why did you back off so quickly in favor of a satirical vote

Because I don't like liars, especially when I have firsthand knowledge that is contrary to the stated lie.

Ok, but one should differentiate between a lie and what seemed to be obviously not serious. Maybe I should coach you about obviousness, I attained the rank of captain after all.

What about the DS's OMGUSsy-smelling post?

If our scum game together wasn't still fresh in my mind, I wouldn't have thought much of it, but it was pretty blatantly bad.

That said, you should consider reading Aero's posts in that game and come to your own conclusion.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=58830

About your question... could you be a little more obvious? I'm running on 24 hours without sleep, here.

[House]

Okay, so maybe I *am* a little paranoid because that's the only experience I have with him.

He can live for now.

UNVOTE:

I'll look for scum after I wake up. Too tired to put much brainpower into it right now.

[House]

Why wasn' tit vote-worthy?

I wasn't really following his posts at that point.

I tend to get tunnely when I get my teeth into someone.

No, I'm not going to go back and read it right now. As I already said, too tired.

[House]

Defensive response noted. You still haven't answered my original question.

He was the exact opposite of defensive.

[House]

This is a terrible reason for a vote.

FoS: pisskop

Boons and Aero's votes were fine.

What was bad about my reason for voting dragon?

What is scummy about placing a pressure vote and saying it's for pressure? Maybe if you explained that, I'd understand it better.

Do you seriously need this basic concept spelled out?

Say it ain't so.

[House]

VOTE: vikingfan

Sheeping my neigh...ing horse!

[House]

VOTE: vikingfan

Sheeping my neigh...ing horse!

Interesting.

It was either him or you. Fortunately for you, I place more stock in the reads of others than I do my own.

We'll see how it pans out.

[House]

VOTE: vikingfan

Sheeping my neigh...ing horse!

Interesting.

It was either him or you. Fortunately for you, I place more stock in the reads of others than I do my own.

We'll see how it pans out.

Oh that's not what I found interesting.

I'm starting to think you are prob town but I'm not totally sure.

Why are you even leaning that way?

You never even consider the possibility that I'm town.

Starting to wonder if I made the right choice. <_<

[House]

dragonspawn, what answer do you expect from 436? The only way it's valid is if he and Grib are scumpartners and other scum didn't vote Grib... rather unlikely.

I want some sort of explanation. It doesn't make sense. Because as you said it is unlikely. Hence why I'm asking. I can't get an understanding of what's going on in vikings head if I don't ask questions on things that bother me can I?

Now why does it bother you that I'm asking him about his statement?

This is a defensive response.

Why does that make him scum instead of insecure?

[House]

Can't argue with that, but he needs to wait for d2.

vikingfan dies today. His flip will tell me more about whether dragon should be a consideration.

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

[House]

lynchbait*

Sheesh, my right index finger is unruly.

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

Which supports a D1 viking lynch.

If he flips scum, it will ease my mind considerably about dragonspawn, because scum simply chose an easy target to draw heat away from their buddy.

If he flips town, it will get rid of a distraction and allow us to look for the actual scum instead of argue throughout the game.

Barring a player posting, "Hai guyz, I iz scumlol", viking's lynch is the most useful.

[House]

That being said, my vote is still on vikingfan, because his posts have looked much worse than dragon's. I've got an FoS on dragon though.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Boon was the first to vote dragon
Pisskop sheeps Boon’s reason
Grib adds to vikingfan
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop
Vikingfan jumps on dragon
Klingon places his vote for vikingfan (although the intent was clearly there already)
House jumps on, stating he is sheeping
Kitz jumps on vikingfan for disliking the way he addressed the dragon wagon (which has a nice ring to it
Nakedjogger jumps on dragon for being defensive

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

But would scum vote for their buddy to stay off a mislynch wagon?

I don't think so.

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

Which supports a D1 viking lynch.

If he flips scum, it will ease my mind considerably about dragonspawn, because scum simply chose an easy target to draw heat away from their buddy.

If he flips town, it will get rid of a distraction and allow us to look for the actual scum instead of argue throughout the game.

Barring a player posting, "Hai guyz, I iz scumlol", viking's lynch is the most useful.

TBH the more I look at your wagon, the less I want to lynch you. I'm scumreading 2 players on it and you're looking like a scapegoat.

I'm pretty confident a vikingfan lynch will clear you.
Not a bad plan. What if we are both town?

[House]

Quote derp.

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

Which supports a D1 viking lynch.

If he flips scum, it will ease my mind considerably about dragonspawn, because scum simply chose an easy target to draw heat away from their buddy.

If he flips town, it will get rid of a distraction and allow us to look for the actual scum instead of argue throughout the game.

Barring a player posting, "Hai guyz, I iz scumlol", viking's lynch is the most useful.

Not a bad plan. What if we are both town?

TBH the more I look at your wagon, the less I want to lynch you. I'm scumreading 2 players on it and you're looking like a scapegoat.

I'm pretty confident a vikingfan lynch will clear you.

Fix't.

[House]

That being said, my vote is still on vikingfan, because his posts have looked much worse than dragon's. I've got an FoS on dragon though.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Boon was the first to vote dragon
Pisskop sheeps Boon’s reason
Grib adds to vikingfan
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop
Vikingfan jumps on dragon
Klingon places his vote for vikingfan (although the intent was clearly there already)
House jumps on, stating he is sheeping
Kitz jumps on vikingfan for disliking the way he addressed the dragon wagon (which has a nice ring to it
Nakedjogger jumps on dragon for being defensive

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

But would scum vote for their buddy to stay off a mislynch wagon?

I don't think so.

No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

[House]

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

Do you not have any issues with the manner in which some of them came on?

You're missing my point, which is I have issues with them independent of their votes on dragon.

The way the slinked on their wagon is telling, but I'm not willing to write it off if viking flips town, because they're scum before those votes anyway.

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

It makes him scum because he himself listed defensiveness as a possible scumtell. Along with that OMGUSy post we've got ourselves a good Day1 lynch.

where did I list defensiveness as a scum tell?

#398 At least that's how I read it in context.

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

Do you think defensiveness is a towntell?

Do you think you should have nailed down his stance on that

before

your vote?

[House]

Silver I have zero idea what RVS means. care to explain?

How can you have several games under your belt and not know what RVS means?

[House]

Then is he just this unreadable enigma

To those of us from that other site that haven't learned as much about the game from playing here for awhite, yes.

[House]

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

I don't understand. Viking is the lynchbait. What would lynching the one who is more likely town tell us? House said the same thing, in 464.

I did not call viking lynchbait. He's clearly scum.

I merely pointed out how NJ's theory of viking being lynchbait still supported a d1 lynch.

By leaving him in the game, we'll constantly be back and forth over lynching him because he's scum as fuck.

I don't think he's lynchbait. I just think he's bad at scum.

[House]

Yea, see, I'm not really inclined to buy the whole "It's OK, he always looks scummy" argument. You could just let anything fall under that umbrella.

Dude, you clearly don't know my playstyle.

Scummy town is definitely a thing. The trick is knowing scummy town from scummy scum.

There's a difference in the two approaches, and it all lies in motivation.

[House]

Who mentioned your playstyle?

I did, because it's a great example for anyone that is familiar with it (as there so happens to be several people here that are).

Scummy town is a thing. I'm scummy town, so I know. Pointing that out was an illustration of my point about dragonspawn.

Just because somebody can easily be painted as scummy doesn't make them scum.

[House]

I'm one of the notorious USMB Liberals. I never miss an election. I simply brain farted and forgot to vote for Viking.

Your liberal tendencies aside :b, what is your opinion of House?

I don't know yet. I'm waiting for a ragepost.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW YET?!?!

HOW DARE YOU! YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO READ ME BY NOW!

(Is that better?)

[House]

I'm also not sure about house right now.

Right now? When

were

you sure about me?

When you were sure about me, what were you sure about?

When you were sure about me, what made you sure about me?

At what point did you lose your certainty?

[House]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

It's not so different. I can town/scumread House and SilverWolf based 100% on their behavior there.

btw -

Shinobi]/b] - Happy Scumday!!

What do you think of Silver / House at this time?

They should be a hydra someday, I think.

Also, Wolf is Town.

That would probably do wonders for Wolfie's sanity, as she wouldn't be pulling her hair out trying to figure out my alignment the entire game.

[House]

I'm also not sure about house right now.

Right now? When

were

you sure about me?

When you were sure about me, what were you sure about?

When you were sure about me, what made you sure about me?

At what point did you lose your certainty?

I said that in the hopes that I might be sure in the future?

Your answer is a question?

[House]

Pretend it's a period, then, if it pleases you.

Okay, this actually strikes me as a towny post.

Not enough to totally sway my read, but it has taken a hit.

[House]

@House - Very excited to finally be in an online game with you. Major reason I decided to /in this game.

Sorry for appearing to ignore your comment. I haven't been... I've just been analyzing the shit out of your post.

I realize, though, that I should have at least had the good manners to say hi.

I was glad to see you /inned to the game. I'm looking forward to having a chat with you here in the future when the time is right, but at the moment I'd like to see how this vikingfan/dragonspawn situation resolves.

[House]

His scum huntin' is super duper fake, even for Day 1 standards. LYNCH IT!

sorry by where exactly is your scum hunting today? People in glass houses should throw rocks.

Ladies and Gentlemen, sheep me on this, fellas. You won't regret it.

scum might not regret it but I town probably should.

of course I piss people off.

Unrepentant scummy play as town is

my

shtick, dragonspawn.

You should stop, you can't pull it off as well.

[House]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

Like some horses in some ways, different from other horses in others. You know, like other horses.

She has hair, four legs, and a tail.

What did you expect my horse to look like?

[House]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

[House]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

....

Posts like this are why you seem so damn scummy dragon. Deliberate misdirection and posting a complete disinterest in the game.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

dragon, please don't humor FA's poor push. It's not even worth it.

[House]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

Why?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

Shinobi isn't lynchbait, either. Playstyles such as mine, ABR's, and dragonspawn's, to name a few, raise flags when people use such a convenient excuse to votepark them instead of actively scumhunt and pressure suspects.

[House]

House, I seem to remember you stating preference for lynching viking over dragon because firstly you thought he was more likely to flip scum, but secondly if he was town that his flip would give you information on dragonspawn.

Doesn't this information work the other way around? And, if so, why are you supporting viking's lynch over dragon's? Because they both seem equally lynchbait to me, so that nullifies that argument.

I'm not arguing anything. dragon is lynchbait, and viking is scummy.

dragon's wagon popped up as a counterwagon to viking, with 2 of my scumspects powering it.

A viking scum flip will give me more of a case against those 2 players.

A dragon town flip gives us nothing but "derp oh well he was scummy anywayz derp".

[House]

I'm curious since you didn't address the possibility of me flipping town. what would you conclude from that possibility?

Why would I?

Should I also consider the possibility of dividing by zero?

[House]

Dragon seems to get himself in this position in every game.

yeah it gets me into trouble. Ironically if I didn't have some trouble everyone would think I'm scum for not playing usually. If I'm going to get scum read and into altercations with people I may as well have fun with it

Who are your top suspects and why?

Viking and shinobi have been my top suspects for a while. Initially gut reactions on both.

I've been debating more recently whether my shinobi read is scum or just anti town.

Viking first pinged me with his RVs vote. Hasn't gotten any better.

Anti-town is more of a general playstyle than a game strategy (as town).

I would recommend reading Shinobi's other towngames and see if they have a similar feel or if he comes across as towny in his town games.

As far as my limited experience with him, his play seems to match up pretty well with the one game I was in where he was town.

[House]

I’m not really used to the “this post is townie” and then “this post is scummy” way of doing things. It’s seems a bit whiplashy and bipolar. Yes, House that was directed towards you.

Right, because players of either alignment can't act both townie and scummy at times.

Now for the rest of that wall post...

[House]

House - just in general seems to do what is expected or asked of him

Right, and who asked of or expected me to defend dragonspawn? If you think dragonspawn did, why would vikingfan not expect the same?

And I'm pretty sure vikingfan didn't ask me to push his wagon.

This statement is manipulative as hell.

[House]

A More Detailed Look at the Vikingfan Wagon and Stuff

*Apologies if I missed something.

Spoiler:

NakedJogger votes vikingfan
Wake mentions he wants to vote Vikingfan
SilverWolf asks Wake why he doesn’t want to put a vote down on Vikingfan
Wake discusses wanting to go after vikingfan but there’s plenty of days left
Vikingfan puts a vote on TSO
Dragonspawn votes Vikingfan (messes up the formatting?)
House calls out dragonspawn for his reasoning for voting Vikingfan
Wake questions many players and specifically states that he wants reactions from Vikingfan
TSO responds to the many votes on him one by one and doesn’t really comment on anything else (basically a huge wall post on his wagon composition)
Pisskop asks why vikingfan is being scumread
Acryon agrees with klingoncelt about vikingfan and votes him
SilverWolf votes vikingfan
Pisskop questions jared615 and votes dragon
Aeronaut votes Dragonspawn
SilverWolf asks for a vikingfan lynch based on his “scum slip”
Klingoncelt votes vikingfan now
Dragonspawn questions vikingfan
Kitz votes Vikingfan based on the “Scum slip”
SilverWolf states that “It seems like every time vikingfan gets a vote, someone else comes along and throws down a vote for dragonspawn.”
Klingoncelt agrees with SilverWolf, adding on that dragonspawn gets lynched early on regularly
SilverWolf brings up the term lynchbait in reference to dragonspawn
Acryon brings up the votes and wagon progressions of dragonspawn and vikingfan and agrees with SilverWolf
SilverWolf agrees with Acryon and how vikingfan’s lynch will help look at the votes on dragonspawn particularly Aero and pisskop and if vikingfan flips town then dragon would be a good D2 vote.
House questions whether scum would vote their buddy to stay off a mislynch
SilverWolf replies, “No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.”
House states that he is suspicious of people on dragonspawn’s wagon separate from the counterwagon issue.
Aeronaut responds to acryon and explains his reading of dragonspawn (and particularly his vote on vikingfan)
SilverWolf responds to Aeronaut and states that EVERY ONE of vikingfan’s posts read scum to her.
SilverWolf emphasizes her reading of vikingfan as scum over dragonspawn.
FA_Q2 puts a vote on Viking.
Shinobi suspects acryon for being mafia and quotes the votes information as his proof(?)
Pisskop believes that vikingfan is the lynchbait. He questions dragonspawn.
SilverWolf states that she does not believe vikingfan to be lynchbait but straight and out scum. “Plus, he’s an informative lynch due to the counterwagon on dragon”
House also states that vikingfan is not lynchbait but scum. However, he believes that NJ’s theory of him being lynchbait still makes vikingfan a good d1 lynch.
Pisskop states that he agrees with FA_Q2 that vikingfan is lynchbait rather than scum. Unlike SilverWolf, pisskop believes that Vikingfan’s “scum slip” and “RVS question” are genuine and not “feigning ignorance”
SilverWolf states that she notices Aeronaut and pisskop’s resistance to the vikingfan lynch and wants it to go through to get a sense of them as well.
FA_QT states that he actually thinks vikingfan was “feigning ignorance” to cover up his scum slip.
Dragonspawn looks a bit better from this post.
Boonskiies chimes in that dragonspawn’s passiveness indicates scum
Silverwolf asks elusive re: dragon vs. Viking (Anyone else start thinking of How To Train Your Dragon? )
Pisskop responds to elusive’s questions and defends vikingfan as a newb player. He questions dragonspawn, and mentions being suspicious of House.
Vikingfan writes another strange post this time stating that no one is voting for him (okies can there be this level of derpage or has he exhausted the derpage quota ?)
FA_Q2 points out vikingfan’s derpage.
Kitz revotes vikingfan
SilverWolf responds to Vikingfan and particularly his reads on her as being suspicious.
Aeronaut still feels that Viking is lynchbait but he will sheep SilverWolf (also suspects Boon and NakedJogger)

I think vikingfan, dragonspawn, and TSO were the wagons that kind of built off each other or in reaction to each other. If I had to choose one of them to lynch today I would choose vikingfan but I can't tell if he's scum or major derp and my gut says town lynchbait.

vikingfan - major town derpage or scum slip derpage and then trying to cover up by "feigning ignorance?" - Would his scum buddies try to coach him to stop being so derpscum? Would he ask his scum buddies questions about RVS in their chat topic? viking, you should try out somew newbie games.

dragonspawn - Rampage and klingoncelt and a few others point out that this is his style of play. He doesn't read particularly scummy if that is taken into account unless replying to votes on him (aka calls out Boonskiies for calling him out for not scum hunting which is NOU).

TSo - wagon built off quickly on him in RVS and then he basically responded mostly to votes on him over anything else going on.

Where's the analysis on my motivation for pushing the vikingfan wagon? If you feel I'm just doing what was expected/asked of me, I don't see why you wouldn't have had something to say about that here, considering I have been so vocal about wanting vikingfan's lynch.

Chainsawing much?

[House]

House

Post #637 - Well, it also allows the person doing it to actually waffle and not be clear on what they find suspicious and whether they are stating that someone is lean town but acting scummy or lean scum but acting townie.

Singling posts out as towny and scummy doesn't allow players to waffle, because the player doing so can be questioned on their reasons for calling such posts towny or scummy, as well as how those posts affect the player's overall read of that slot.

Post #638 - Manipulative? How so? You're meta as described by someone else (Aero?) is that you're abrasive and aggressive but so far you've only acted that way in this game when someone reminds you (such as celt waiting for you to rage post and you complying with a jokey one, aka trying to play to expectations?)

This is scummy as shit. Clearly you've never heard of sarcasm. I was doing it to annoy KC, and it worked just fine.

Post #640 - Chainsawing? Also, you're not my main focus so I'm not sure why you expect to be. However, like TSO would you point to an example of really strong\perfect analysis in this game (maybe even two examples one done by you and one done by not you).

Why? You still haven't responded to T S O on this. All this is, is making busy work to get those pushing you distracted.

[House]

House, I have responded to TSO on this. Point out what I haven't responded to. Also, that means you can't point to an example of strong anaylsis by you and someone else this game? I'm wary of people who harp on analysis and can't even point to any strong examples of what this consists of. It basically leads to changing the goal post when a person does try.

ISO me, you tool. My push on vikingfan is excellent analysis.

If I agreed on the dragonspawn wagon or the reasoning behind it, I wouldn't be pushing vikingfan would I?

Chainsaw more.

[House]

House, I have responded to TSO on this. Point out what I haven't responded to.

629

[House]

I have no idea why you have to call me a tool, are you angry or being a troll? I mean it almost seems like a bit of an act going on with you.

More chainsawing.

Also, I did respond to #629 that but in case you missed it (Grib had posted already in thread and I know of Grib from somewhere else and TSO had not posted at all so it seemed like people were pressuring him to post which a few stated in thread and I agree with voting people who aren't posting or being lurkery).

Quote the post, because I see nothing between 629 and now that even vaguely references it.

Anything else? What is chainsawing other then something to kill zombies with?

Chainsawing: Attacking another player that is pushing a wagon on your scummate.

[House]

House, bolded for you.

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

Hey there. Did you roll scum?

Nope, I never roll scum

Are you town?

I have setup questions or I guess what is this type of setup called and is there a Wiki with possible roles and number of town, scum and any third parties?

TSO, the vote on you was based one me looking at the player list and who I didn't see post yet. Grib posted and you hadn't posted at all and were all lurkery. Anything else?

Although, your explanation of Jared's post in your post #307 doesn't make sense. What the what the what?

GL on exams, though.

And:

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

There's at least one or two more relating to Grib.[/quote]

How do you count? Because in reality land, 309 comes before 629 (by over 300), and thus can't be a response to it.

629 was T S O linking to what he viewed as good analysis after you asked him to do so, and you've had zero response on that. Then you ask me to do the same thing... so you can just ignore that too?

Why waste my time?

Also, I can't chainsaw when I don't have any scum mates and since you weren't even on my top focus (see my vote on Jared), it seems lik you do like drawing attention to yourself.

Right, and do you think that makes me town or scum?

I await your answer with bated breath.

[House]

House, you're so silly. It's funny.

I thought TSO was linking that for me to respond to his read on Jared (see his prior question on that).

SilverWolf, do you think that the fact that Jared has contributed so little is strange or normal or? What are your thoughts on that?

Appeal to ridicule now?

[House]

NakedJogger, I suggest that you tunnel or pressure without having to take the recourse of unnecessary language. Once that Pandora's box is open, there's no coming back.

House, the problem is that you can create any amount of WIFOM to read any player in this thread the way you're putting it on thick. I could make a case such as you'rs on each player in this thread. It would be fake.

Don't really care, I'm town, I won't go down without a fight.

I respond in kind so be careful what you wish for.

Looks like a scum threat to me. Why would town feel the need to post this, and why would town not care about retaliating against town?

[House]

Prodgey.

Get your butt in here and give us something to work with, duders.

[House]

How can town not see all the resistance to the vikingfan wagon?

[House]

elusive seems town to me, her ignorance of encryptors and scum day talk mechanics feels genuine.

If she was scum, I don't see her bringing this up so baldly.

[House]

God if all our PR's are this bad, we're doomed. =/

UNVOTE:

[House]

I guess the other thing for town to do is to narrow down 3-5 people for vikingfan to check and he choose from those? 3-5 so that scum don't know for sure.

The cop makes his/her own choice on who to investigate, however requests are often made by other players. For example: Viking, could you please investigate SilverWolf so we can check your sanity?

He's sane. It's a normal game.

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie,

Sane Cop

, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Non-Sane Cop

, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

Normal games

can include

1-2 non-normal roles.

[House]

It's a normal game.

Normal games

can include

1-2 non-normal roles.

Isn't Ika the mod?

Doesn't matter who the mod is, normal games are strictly governed.

Still though, the rules state that 1-2 non-normal roles can be included in a normal game, so an insane cop remains a possibility.

[House]

It seems likely that is what it is. The most suspicious one of them is FA though. He has actively been suspicious of me and yet votes for Viking. By it makes sense that he might do that just from knowing my meta.

wolf is loyal to her friends until she has a reason to suspect you. Not surprised with her defense. Nor does it seem scummy. It seems consistent with her town behavior

klingon is hard to read I admit. But she tends to be like wolf.

house I just dont see as scum this game.

Why?

I mean, you gave some kind of reason or thought behind everybody in this post but me. Why peter out at the end there?

[House]

as for house, his posts have a town vibe.

Why are you refusing to give any sort of reason for your read on me?

If you think I'm town enough to townread me, there should be more behind it than "vibe".

From the sounds of your posts, I should be a null/town at best to you.

[House]

My reasons for voting House (some of which were already stated in my posts btw)
1. He's whiplashed with the "this is townie" then "this is scum" way too much - it makes it seem like he could jump out and go either way with those kinds of back and forth
2. Seems super aggressive but when I look back I can't figure out how his aggressiveness is moving the game forward and also was trying to steamroll the viking lynch
3. Skimming the other game (the one you linked to) he was scum and it seems like he's doing the same things here

So tryhard.

You better hope people take your word for it and don't actually read the other game for themselves, or that little lie could easily blow up in your face.

[House]

I'm suspicious of viking's alleged lack of creativity to come up with at least something vague or encrypted enough to be a safe crumb, but other than that it looks legit until someone CCs.

I guess the other thing for town to do is to narrow down 3-5 people for vikingfan to check and he choose from those? 3-5 so that scum don't know for sure.

The cop makes his/her own choice on who to investigate, however requests are often made by other players. For example: Viking, could you please investigate SilverWolf so we can check your sanity?

He's sane. It's a normal game.

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie,

Sane Cop

, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Non-Sane Cop

, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

Normal games

can include

1-2 non-normal roles.

I don't think they can include explicitly non-normal ones; only new/variants.

I think you're right. I am pretty sure Wake told me something about 1-2 non-normal roles being permitted, but it was a while back and he may have used different verbiage and I misunderstood.

(Wake, when you read this, I think we were discussing builds via PM on USMB).

[House]

House, it's right here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=58830

Stated by TSO regarding you, "Him keeping his options open should have been a scumtell but there were a lot of weird dynamics in this LyLo which made it kinda acceptable to do."

Also, what are your reads other then dragonspawn? Do you have any? What are your thoughts on all of the active players so far? Concrete thoughts such as lean town, lean scum or null. Not the wishy washy stuff.

It's d1. Anybody that doesn't have their options open know the answers.

As far as my reads, they're noted down elsewhere and will be shared when I'm good and ready.

[House]

Okies porcupine, let's try this a different way.

House, where is your vote right now and why? If you had to move your vote upon someone else who would you vote for and why?

You must already know the answer to the first question, if you've been paying any attention at all to the game.

As for who I'd like to see lynched today, I'd have to say

VOTE: ABR

The one-liners are meh, but my noted read on him is:

ABR

- Scum. I haven't really been noticing ABR, and his ISO is terribad. Naked votes, bad pushes, and posting just enough to avoid prodding.

[House]

House, where is your vote right now and why?

You could always check the ISO...

From what I recall his last vote was vikingfan and he just moved it off the claimed cop, I wanted to see his reaction.

I do know about ISO although its a bit messy for people in multiple games.

You clearly don't know about ISO. Those posts are restricted to the game you click the ISO link for.

It's next to the post number.

[House]

Explicitly non-normal roles cannot be in Normal games, in spite of the slots that allow unique roles. The Fruit Vendor, for example, isn't on the 'Normal' whitelist, nor is it considered 'explictly non-normal,' so it would be allowed. If somewhere I am completely wrong on this, please let me know immediately.

I appreciate the clarification. Would have been nice if you would have confirmed the conversation I referred to on USMB.

[House]

Meh, I can't read Kitz.

If we get close to deadline and need a lynch I'll hammer.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Post 97 looks like a way of giving himself an excuse to be on mislynch wagons.

[House]

Meh, I can't read Kitz.

Get out of here. You couldn't read me either yet didn't hesitate in calling me scum. Place your vote on Kitz.

I haven't played a game with you either where I was reading you as town when you were scum who eventually won.

Knowing you, you'll hop off the Kitz wagon and go after some other random player next, so I'll pass on sheeping a mystery onto a mystery.

[House]

Looking over the wagon that built up on it, I actually do like most of the names voting for her (NJ, Grib, SW), so fine.

VOTE: Kitz

[House]

Nope. But I do a lot of theatre and people assume that all the time. Totally understanding misconception.

[House]

Meh, I can't read Kitz.
If we get close to deadline and need a lynch I'll hammer.
VOTE: Aeronaut
Post 97 looks like a way of giving himself an excuse to be on mislynch wagons.

What makes you refer to a post 30 pages ago as your sole reason to vote? And why did it come right after the flashwagon on Kitz?

vote: Kitz

I pulled that comment from my notes. I've been reading Aero as scum for a while, but that particular post stands out to me.

If I'm a scumread of yours, why aren't you voting me instead of the latest wagon that cropped up out of nowhere?

[House]

I think ABR's claim is going to have to be confirmed later, but I think I believe viking's.

Why in the world do you have doubt about ABR's claim?

He didn't have nearly enough votes on him for it to be scum pressured into a fakeclaim.

ABR's PR claim was frustrated town wanting to get focus off himself and onto his own suspects.

It also creates WIFOM for the NK, as scum now have to decide which PR to go after and hope they hit the one that's not being protected.

If we have a n1 NK, it's thanks to ABR's claim. Remember that.

[House]

If the claims are true Kitz has got the shittiest towncred.

Yeah, that's true. I'm OK with lynching kitz.

Oooooh shit~

vote Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

VOTE: Kitz

vote: Kitz

That makes me L5?
I'm unaffected to this pressure. In fact, the voting is so fast that it's unrealistic and unreasonable.
One of these voters are definitely scum.

What a say nothing statement. You could pull 5 names for any reason and say the same thing.

However, to make things a bit interesting, I have a confession. Was gonna post this regardlessly anyway.
I actually didn't know what roles are available. The only role I knew was my own, and I was all blind. I tried to look around this thread to see what roles are available, since I'm used to my own site meta that roles available are on the same thread - OP 1st Post. That made me overly neutral and would only open up later when I actually had an idea of stuff.
Thanks to the discussion of Wolf and House tho, I know what roles are around.

What are you even talking about here?

[House]

I never brushed you off. I answered every one of your points. Don't misrep.

You did answer them. I guess I didn't realize I qualified as a lurker. :\

I pulled that comment from my notes. I've been reading Aero as scum for a while, but that particular post stands out to me.

If I'm a scumread of yours, why aren't you voting me instead of the latest wagon that cropped up out of nowhere?

I'm voting Kitz because I'm unsure if Elusive's on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm.

Busted. I'm scum and Kitz is totally my buddy. Damn you and your meddling dog!

I think ABR's claim is going to have to be confirmed later, but I think I believe viking's.

Why in the world do you have doubt about ABR's claim?

He didn't have nearly enough votes on him for it to be scum pressured into a fakeclaim.

You're right. But he could do it as a measured action to move the wagon along. He clearly knew it would end the discussion about his play.
Is it normal for people to claim outside of RVS, under pressure, or in order to CC/reveal?

It's normal for annoyed/frustrated town to do things that aren't necessarily optimal play in order to move the game along.

It also creates WIFOM for the NK, as scum now have to decide which PR to go after and hope they hit the one that's not being protected.

If we have a n1 NK, it's thanks to ABR's claim. Remember that.

Okay. I can see that. I still aim to see it confirmed; otherwise future scum could try this.

This is pretty meaningless, as ABR's role will be confirmed naturally in time as the game progresses. If it's not, no amount of railing about needing it confirmed will make it so and it will be pretty obvious what needs to happen.

We can cross that bridge when we come to it, but you making such a big deal about it now when nothing can really be done about it on d1 is just meh.

[House]

What are you even talking about here?

I can be quite literal.
TLDR : I didn't know the roles, other than the PM I received. That's not a claim to what my role is, I'm just stating the facts.

Wolf posted the list of what roles there is.

Link to this post, because I haven't seen it.

[House]

Link to this post, because I haven't seen it.

Are you kidding me?

He's sane. It's a normal game.

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

So you think all of these roles are in this game?

Seriously?

[House]

I'd rather see people go after

a strong player

and see what happens or reactions from that.

Therefore, my vote on House.

Maybe I'll switch to Wake or one of the other Boss type Pokemon.

[House]

House, you won as scum a large normal game so you're on the orange threat level list.

I don't like orange.

I also won as serial killer. Do I get a prettier color?

[House]

Should we lynch their slots?

Whoa wtf?

How does this come from town?

[House]

Elusive is town btw for wanting to defend a complete newbie instead of lynching it.

White knighting is a thing, you know.

[House]

as for house, his posts have a town vibe.

Why are you refusing to give any sort of reason for your read on me?

If you think I'm town enough to townread me, there should be more behind it than "vibe".

From the sounds of your posts, I should be a null/town at best to you.

Because I don't think scum would care about horses at all. Especially not to mention it.

I suppose it is theoretically possible. But I see no reason to seriously consider it day 1 with so many better choices out there.

I would have thought you'd realize why I wasn't saying anything

Scum can't like equines?

[House]

Oh and if you're keeping options open then you shouldn't pretend to be all actively doing stuff, that's not keeping options open that's seeming like you're all busy when you're not.

House, orange is my least favorite color. Surprise. All the other colors are so nice though. I guess it could be threat level purple.

It's day one. Only scum CAN be certain of their reads. The trick is finding who is acting contrary to their stated reads/opinions.

Purple is nice, I can do purple.

[House]

KItz has bad pushes and a weak ISO, if that's where town wants to go, that's fine

but 976 pinged my scumdar so hard, the neighbors were wondering where that noise was coming from.

Seriously, "let's lynch three spots because they aren't here to defend themselves" is ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....................................scummy as shit.

VOTE: klingoncelt

I don't understand the bolded.

Would you say the same about your own wagon?

[House]

KItz has bad pushes and a weak ISO, if that's where town wants to go, that's fine

but 976 pinged my scumdar so hard, the neighbors were wondering where that noise was coming from.

Seriously, "let's lynch three spots because they aren't here to defend themselves" is ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....................................scummy as shit.

VOTE: klingoncelt

I don't understand the bolded.

Would you say the same about your own wagon?

No clue what you are talking about here. As far as I know, I don't have a wagon on me right now unless something happened since I last checked.

Stop dodging. Would you make the same statement if you were the flavor du jour for the lynch?

If not, why say it about others?

If so, why?

[House]

SW, if town was making bad pushes and you had a weak ISO, would you be ok with town lynching you?

If not, why support such a wagon on someone else?

[House]

SW, if town was making bad pushes and you had a weak ISO, would you be ok with town lynching you?

If not, why support such a wagon on someone else?

Since you felt the need to ask me this twice, it must be important to you for some reason. If I had a small ISO with not a lot of posts or content and I was making bad pushes or using bad reasoning for votes, I'd probably defend myself if I was being wagoned for that. Why would I not support a wagon for that reason on a D1 lynch? Especially close to deadline like we are? Why did you support it? Where are you going with this questioning? You are still voting for Kitz? Why? Do you agree with my scumread on Klingon? Why or why not?

I reworded it since you didn't seem to understand what I was saying.

So I take it your answer to my question i that you would not be ok with town lynching you if you were town in that situation.

I'm asking you about this because that statement didn't ring true to your towngame. It doesn't bother me enough to shake my read of you on its own, you just appear to be confbiasing.

As far as the KlingonCelt wagon goes, I'm still making up my mind on it. Does a person deserve to die over a single post?

[House]

SW, if town was making bad pushes and you had a weak ISO, would you be ok with town lynching you?

If not, why support such a wagon on someone else?

Since you felt the need to ask me this twice, it must be important to you for some reason. If I had a small ISO with not a lot of posts or content and I was making bad pushes or using bad reasoning for votes, I'd probably defend myself if I was being wagoned for that. Why would I not support a wagon for that reason on a D1 lynch? Especially close to deadline like we are? Why did you support it? Where are you going with this questioning? You are still voting for Kitz? Why? Do you agree with my scumread on Klingon? Why or why not?

I reworded it since you didn't seem to understand what I was saying.

So I take it your answer to my question i that you would not be ok with town lynching you if you were town in that situation.

I'm asking you about this because that statement didn't ring true to your towngame. It doesn't bother me enough to shake my read of you on its own, you just appear to be confbiasing.

As far as the KlingonCelt wagon goes, I'm still making up my mind on it. Does a person deserve to die over a single post?

Look up and read my 1037. That's the problem I have with it.

The question is,

is

she always down for a D1 PL? If she is, it's not alignment indicative. It's playstyle indicative.

[House]

I'm really getting weirded out by everybody claiming after a couple votes land on them.

I have to wonder if it isn't some kind of scum tactic to get us to disbelieve later claims due to the sheer number out there.

If people want to claim so much, we should do one of two things... either

1) Start lynching those who claim under these oddball circumstances, or
2) Just mass claim and get it over with so we can move the hell on and hunt scum.

[House]

I'm really getting weirded out by everybody claiming after a couple votes land on them.

I have to wonder if it isn't some kind of scum tactic to get us to disbelieve later claims due to the sheer number out there.

If people want to claim so much, we should do one of two things... either

1) Start lynching those who claim under these oddball circumstances, or
2) Just mass claim and get it over with so we can move the hell on and hunt scum.

I have more than a couple on me. Funny how fast that wagon got to rolling, not unlike Kitz's. Some very opportunistic players here, for sure.

You're not even halfway to lynch.

That's no excuse.

[House]

Oh excuse me, you're halfway to lynch. You were only FIVE VOTES AWAY.

[House]

On the Kitz wagon, I'm interested in why

Grib and House

voted for her.

Shinobi

, why did you vote for acryon?

Aeronaut, TSO, and FA_Q2

, why vote for me?

Interesting how you're trying to deflect since you can't counter my statement.

Why not simply admit that your claim was premature?

[House]

Your game is off, House. You're nitpicky and boring.

1) Nitpicky: Welcome to MafiaScum, where everything is analyzed. You should be used to that by now.
2) Boring: hi2u Appeal to Ridicule.

[House]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

[House]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

I've been having a real problem sorting out Scum in this game. The level of confusion for me is identical to that game where Wolf and MathBlade were Scum. I didn't want to believe they were Scum, so my judgement got clouded.

Dragonspawn, well we know his history, no lynching him before Day2. SilverWolf, Boonskiies, Wake88, their Town/Scum games are easy enough to tell apart. Boon and Wake need to post more.

FA_Q2, T S O, and Shinobi are hard cases for me. I always have a hard time figuring out what side they're on. Maybe one of them is scum.

House, now House is an easy one. Anyone will tell you he's got his Town game and then there's his Scum game. What I'm seeing here is Town Game Light. I've never known him to tell an established player how to play before. I've never known him to be so oddly nitpicky and boring before. And there's no fireaids rageposting.

Dood. I thinks you haz scumz.

VOTE: House

Then you better meta me harder Grannie, because this is nothing new for me.

[House]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

I've been having a real problem sorting out Scum in this game. The level of confusion for me is identical to that game where Wolf and MathBlade were Scum. I didn't want to believe they were Scum, so my judgement got clouded.

Dragonspawn, well we know his history, no lynching him before Day2. SilverWolf, Boonskiies, Wake88, their Town/Scum games are easy enough to tell apart. Boon and Wake need to post more.

FA_Q2, T S O, and Shinobi are hard cases for me. I always have a hard time figuring out what side they're on. Maybe one of them is scum.

House, now House is an easy one. Anyone will tell you he's got his Town game and then there's his Scum game. What I'm seeing here is Town Game Light. I've never known him to tell an established player how to play before. I've never known him to be so oddly nitpicky and boring before. And there's no fireaids rageposting.

Dood. I thinks you haz scumz.

VOTE: House

Then you better meta me harder Grannie, because this is nothing new for me.

*sigh*

Maybe it's just that I'm used to everyone's psycho playstyle at USMB. I'm reading the game going on over there, it's full of rage and aggro. I'm surprised no one's had a heart attack yet.

Stop talking about ongoing games. You know I can't respond to your post.

[House]

I'm not talking about anything other than what a casual observer can see.

I read lots of ongoing games here, btw. Good way to get to know people.

For reading so many games, you sure seem ignorant of the fact that ongoing games are not to be discussed in any capacity whatsoever.

[House]

acryon

* - leantown, seems to be actively figure out the game

Kitz

- enigma, she's hard for me to read. She fooled me in our last game together, so I'm trying to be careful here.

Naked jogger

- townlean, I've liked most of his posts, but unsure why he's pushing Boonskiies and not ABR.

Shinobi

- Null. I find him hard to get a bead on, and have mislynched him in the past.

Pisskop

- townlean, I like his pushes, and he seems to be trying to solve the game.

dragonspawn

- townlean, he's more manipulative as scum; his deliberately scummy towngame just feels a bit forced, but I think it's an intentional strategy.

Klingoncelt

- null, I find it hard to read KC in the early game.

SilverWolf

- Pretty sure she's town, she's playing to her textbook town game, her scum game is way different. She's paranoid and actively trying to scumhunt. Scumwolf is lurky & manipulative.

elusive

- townlean for not pushing me to share my reads publicly when I mentioned having them noted elsewhere; would have expected scum!elusive to use that post to push/vote me

Grib

- This feels very much like a Grib town game. I may be biased here though, as I have only seen one Grib scum game, and it wasn't like a typical MS game.

Wake88

- Null, haven't seen nearly enough to sort him.

Aeronaut

- Still kinda leaning scum here. Post 97 is of particular concern, it feels like he's making excuses for being on mislynch wagons.

T S O

- Leaning town, but I'd like to know his read and reasons on Boonskies to shore up that read.

Cheetory6

- Null. Not seeing what I want to out of Cheetory for a townread. He's a clever player, and I'm wary.

Ellie

- Null, nothing to read her on other than jared's statement that I made a good case on viking but not even voting for him.

Boonskiies

* - Not interested in a D1 lynch for Boonskiies. My first game with him, and I'd hate to see him go on the first day before I can actually sort him.

ABR

- Scum. I haven't really been noticing ABR, and his ISO is terribad. Naked votes, bad pushes, and posting just enough to avoid prodding.

FA_Q2

- townlean, his early game was laid back. He seems comfortable, which FA doesn't seem to be so laid back as scum. That's not enough for a solid read, though. For example, if dragon were to actually flip scum (which I doubt), 577 looks like crosstalk/coaching.

vikingfan

- town, pending counterclaim.

VOTE: ABR

Contribute or swing, ABR.

[House]

Why do you guys want to lynch a claimed tracker? Can you at least explain that to me so I understand it?

God my memory is shit. I even remember discussing that.

ABR's my scummiest read, I mean shit, look at them. What would you do in this case?

UNVOTE:

Fucking *sigh*.

[House]

Oh well, back to ol' reliable, I guess.

VOTE: Aeronaut

[House]

House: Is your experience with Cheetory here, or offsite?

Here. It's just one game, though.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=59777

[House]

Fuck this, I won't take this garbage from ika simply for asking players not to refer to ongoing games.

@mod

: replace me or modkill me, IDGAF which one you do.

[House]

Fuck this, I won't take this garbage from ika simply for asking players not to refer to ongoing games.

@mod

: replace me or modkill me, IDGAF which one you do.

Replace out request stands, but my apologies to ika for being rude.

Good luck, town!