NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Thor665]

That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering,

claiming

, and offering thoughts - please let me know. I give you that courtesy and I expect the same.

[Slandaar]

I am interested to hear your response.

When I asked Thor he went 'IM NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING ANYMORE'

[Boonskiies]

I still don't think there are four plain VT's outside of the neighbors.

[Thor665]

I now feel basically as confident on my Slandaar = scum as my Pine = scum read.

Both also remain logical scum for my setup spec.

Not sure about Nero/Boon for Mafia, I'll admit. I lean not TSO currently. I mildly lean not Boon on the logic of 'town is a bit weak without his claim being legit'.

[Boonskiies]

Can we lynch something yet?

[Thor665]

@Pine
@Slandaar

Your top Mafia suspect currently is...?

[Boonskiies]

I actually don't think we should talk about mafia anymore, unless we think we'll be lynching mafia toDay.

[Pine]

Oh, wait, no. You're claiming I, and my wolf partner, are 1-shot neighbors, and all wolves are neighbors, vs. Mafia who none of them are 1-shot or Neighbors.
Is that right?

I'm saying Rolecop/Roleblock + Goon would be balanced against Neighbors who have some other powers. 1-shot Jailkeep and 2-shot BP would be balanced against the Mafia power we've seen

[Pine]

I still don't think there are four plain VT's outside of the neighbors.

I still think your setup spec is self-serving. It is designed to support a notion you've already arrived at

[Slandaar]

Your top Mafia suspect currently is...?

Pine->TSO

Why does this really matter?

What does matter is you or Boon explaining to me why you think Pine isn't mafia/is a wolf. Yet both of you have failed to answer this. I assume you can explain why?

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering, claiming, and offering thoughts - please let me know. I give you that courtesy and I expect the same.

What wasn't clear in my previous response?

[Pine]

I'm telling you dude. Thor and Boon are Wolfbuddies. Notice how they have not only left each other alone, but their attacks are eerily coordinated? Almost makes me think Encryptor. Maybe the bulletproof claim is bullshit designed to discourage crosskills. 2-shot is kind of unusual

[Slandaar]

I will give them a chance to explain why you are wolf but I assume they will fail to do so to any reasonable degree based on their previous responses.

[Thor665]

I actually don't think we should talk about mafia anymore, unless we think we'll be lynching mafia toDay.

Figuring out who Mafia is will increase our accuracy of Wolf lynches - so...I disagree with this.

I'm saying Rolecop/Roleblock + Goon would be balanced against Neighbors who have some other powers. 1-shot Jailkeep and 2-shot BP would be balanced against the Mafia power we've seen

Leaves town grossly underpowered though, in my opinion.
You disagree?

I still think your setup spec is self-serving. It is designed to support a notion you've already arrived at

I agree - I arrived at my conclusion of who was scummy via scumhunting and then used the setup spec to discern who I thought was which alignment.
That actually seems pretty functional to my mind, really.

Pine->TSO

Why does this really matter?

1. How does it not matter?
2. I think you're a Wolf so I'm very interested in your thoughts on who Mafia is.

What does matter is you or Boon explaining to me why you think Pine isn't mafia/is a wolf. Yet both of you have failed to answer this. I assume you can explain why?

This is the first time you've asked me.
I have provided extensive reasoning for suspecting he is scum - are you utterly unaware of it?
My reasoning for thinking he's a Wolf is based on my setup spec - are you unaware of it?

What wasn't clear in my previous response?

Was your "previous response" post 6401? I thought that was at Boon.
If it wasn't - then I missed your previous response - link or post number?

[Thor665]

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering,

Intend to address some of it at some point.

Ah, here it is.

Okay.

When?

[Thor665]

Because - what the hell. derpa-lurk?

[Slandaar]

This is the first time you've asked me.

Uh, No.

Take a guess;
Did Sland ask or didn't Sland ask?

Get your answers in now folks!

I have provided extensive reasoning for suspecting he is scum - are you utterly unaware of it?

I asked specifically about Wolf/not mafia not about why he is scum.

My reasoning for thinking he's a Wolf is based on my setup spec - are you unaware of it?

The pattern nonsense?

That is it?

I see.

[Slandaar]

Ah, here it is.

Okay.

When?

Tomorrow probably.

None of it is very important from what I saw. The only good thing is posting why I am town which I absolutely intend to do. I will have to look at some VC's etc but a short version I was on script wagon and Reinoe wagon.

[Slandaar]

Nah - I find that unlikely, his play works fine for Wolf and, in my opinion, moreso than Mafia.

So, it's not just the Setup spec.

Clarify?

[T S O]

Why do the we have to assume the neighborhoods are random? I guess it's really the only argument a wolf has at this point.

OK I am town.

What other argument is there against the pattern?

You should assume they are random because that is what you should always do there is no reason to believe they are not.

Do you actually think the mod would put 4/6 scum outside the hoods in 8 players? clearly that can be broken later. Maybe by random chance it happens but seems terrible to do otherwise and in the situation that did happen via random rolls you are right using wrong methodology. Thus we assume random, we always assume random and we scumhunt ignoring the hoods and flips in them.

Here is a pretty pattern I shall present to you:

Neighbours
Script
Thor
Boon

all wolves 1 in each hood.

Non neighbours
Pine
Flubber
Reinoe

All mafia.

Now we have two pretty patterns.

Present an argument against my pattern Boon.

Pattern one has symmetry within the scumteams and good set-up design.
Pattern two has no symmetry at all and is terrible set-up design.

[Thor665]

Nah - I find that unlikely, his play works fine for Wolf and, in my opinion, moreso than Mafia.

So, it's not just the Setup spec.

Clarify?

Wagon analysis.

[Slandaar]

Pattern one has symmetry within the scumteams and good set-up design.
Pattern two has no symmetry at all and is terrible set-up design.

A setup doesn't have to be symmetrical to be well designed?

[Slandaar]

Wagon analysis.

Last time you showed me a VC it had 7 votes and you were like 'look no mafia gotta be Boon!'. Do you have any actual 'wagon analysis'?

[Thor665]

The pattern nonsense?

That is it?

I see.

Y'know, you and Pine are really wringing hands about this idea of mine without paying much attention to the actual reactions to it outside of trying to vaguely sell me on being an idiot/scum for thinking I'm right.

I have Boon and TSO bought in to it, and I'm not a likely Mafia, so that really starts to twist what alignments the other two theoretically are at that stage.
Nero (an unlikely Wolf) is also at least buying into the idea that the setup spec has merit though he seems to maybe disagree with my conclusions. So, again, what relational alignment does that bring into the play?

[Thor665]

Wagon analysis.

Last time you showed me a VC it had 7 votes and you were like 'look no mafia gotta be Boon!'. Do you have any actual 'wagon analysis'?

I still suspect Boon of being Mafia, so...?